U.S. Gearing Up To Become World\'s Supplier Of Lithium...

[server]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 17:32:47 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 09/05/2022 02:31 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 19:52:36 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2022-09-05 18:08, Robert Latest wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and
if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.


If anything, I\'d expect the number of cars on the road to grow.
Soon we\'ll see driverless cars going somewhere all by themselves
to pick someone up!

Jeroen Belleman

People in China, India, Africa, Indonesia want what we have: electric
lights, cars, clean cooking fuel, safe hot and cold water, fans and
air conditioning, transport, internet, schools, vermin-free floors,
beds and chairs and stuff. And they will get all that. That will take
energy.




And screw the polar bears... I can\'t say that I blame them.

The polar bears are doing fine.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/05/2022 09:50 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 17:32:47 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 09/05/2022 02:31 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 19:52:36 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2022-09-05 18:08, Robert Latest wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and
if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.


If anything, I\'d expect the number of cars on the road to grow.
Soon we\'ll see driverless cars going somewhere all by themselves
to pick someone up!

Jeroen Belleman

People in China, India, Africa, Indonesia want what we have: electric
lights, cars, clean cooking fuel, safe hot and cold water, fans and
air conditioning, transport, internet, schools, vermin-free floors,
beds and chairs and stuff. And they will get all that. That will take
energy.




And screw the polar bears... I can\'t say that I blame them.

The polar bears are doing fine.

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/polar-bears-switch-diets-survive-studies-say-n15991

Caribou are tasty and you don\'t have to stand around on an ice berg all
day to catch one.

 

[whit3rd]

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 8:51:03 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 17:32:47 -0600, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

And screw the polar bears... I can\'t say that I blame them.

The polar bears are doing fine.

After any disaster, some survivors are \"doing fine\". Head count is low, though.
After the 1970 Bhola cyclone, Pakistan\'s General Yahya Khan toured, said \'looks OK to me\'...
then the survivors revolted, creating Bangladesh where once was East Pakistan.

 

[server]

On Tue, 6 Sep 2022 00:45:17 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 8:51:03 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 17:32:47 -0600, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

And screw the polar bears... I can\'t say that I blame them.

The polar bears are doing fine.

After any disaster, some survivors are \"doing fine\". Head count is low, though.
After the 1970 Bhola cyclone, Pakistan\'s General Yahya Khan toured, said \'looks OK to me\'...
then the survivors revolted, creating Bangladesh where once was East Pakistan.

google it.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 12:23:37 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Tue, 6 Sep 2022 00:45:17 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 8:51:03 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 17:32:47 -0600, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

And screw the polar bears... I can\'t say that I blame them.

The polar bears are doing fine.

After any disaster, some survivors are \"doing fine\". Head count is low, though.
After the 1970 Bhola cyclone, Pakistan\'s General Yahya Khan toured, said \'looks OK to me\'...
then the survivors revolted, creating Bangladesh where once was East Pakistan.

google it.

It\'s your assertion. You find the link that supports your claim. Gnatguy can\'t manage this. Can you?

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Flyguy]

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 8:17:05 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 4:21:52 AM UTC+10, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 12:25:03 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn\'t enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.

In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.

If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).

Rich C does have an emotional objection to the idea, but if the car owners were paid enough for the service they might feel better about it.

You think it\'s emotional, but that\'s your go-to idea for everything you can\'t understand. It\'s someone else\'s emotions.
I can understand your emotions. Your problem is that you can\'t.
The economics simply don\'t work for using car batteries as grid storage because they cost so much more to replace than grid storage batteries.
The famous 129 MW.hr grid storage battery in South Australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve

was supplied by Elon Musk and the cells came of his Tesla production line.. It uses exactly the same cells as a Tesla car.
So the electric company would have to shell out a lot more money to use them if the BEV owners are smart enough to understand.
Deluded rubbish.
I know they would have to pay me dearly to use my battery, because I want to use it as long as I can, it is very expensive to replace.
The battery is an expensive item.

Another JEWEL from the Bozo! The battery is an EXPENSIVE ITEM! WOW!! Why don\'t you grace with MORE pearls of wisdom, like \"the Sun rises in the morning AND sets in the evening!!!!\"

OH, you ALREADY DID:

\"The process of swapping it for new one should be pretty straight-forward and quick.\"

So is replacing an ENGINE, you DORK!!!!!!

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:06:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 8:17:05 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 4:21:52 AM UTC+10, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 12:25:03 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn\'t enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.

In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.

If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).

Rich C does have an emotional objection to the idea, but if the car owners were paid enough for the service they might feel better about it.

You think it\'s emotional, but that\'s your go-to idea for everything you can\'t understand. It\'s someone else\'s emotions.
I can understand your emotions. Your problem is that you can\'t.
The economics simply don\'t work for using car batteries as grid storage because they cost so much more to replace than grid storage batteries.
The famous 129 MW.hr grid storage battery in South Australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve

was supplied by Elon Musk and the cells came of his Tesla production line. It uses exactly the same cells as a Tesla car.

So the electric company would have to shell out a lot more money to use them if the BEV owners are smart enough to understand.
Deluded rubbish.
I know they would have to pay me dearly to use my battery, because I want to use it as long as I can, it is very expensive to replace.

The battery is an expensive item. \"The process of swapping it for new one should be pretty straight-forward and quick.\"

Gnatguy tried to use text-chopping to lie about what I was actually saying. I\'ve snipped most of it.

> So is replacing an ENGINE, you DORK!!!!!!

Replacing an engine is actually a lot more complicated that swapping a battery. The engine is hooked up to the radiator, the gas tank, the drive train, the accelerator pedal and a whole lot of dashboard displays. The battery in an EV is functionally closer to the gas tank in a car with internal combustion engine.

Nothing has to be as carefully aligned as the drive train. Gnatguy clearly hasn\'t ever had to swap an engine (or a gear box).

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Flyguy]

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 9:24:59 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:06:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 8:17:05 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 4:21:52 AM UTC+10, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 12:25:03 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn\'t enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.

In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.

If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).

Rich C does have an emotional objection to the idea, but if the car owners were paid enough for the service they might feel better about it.

You think it\'s emotional, but that\'s your go-to idea for everything you can\'t understand. It\'s someone else\'s emotions.
I can understand your emotions. Your problem is that you can\'t.
The economics simply don\'t work for using car batteries as grid storage because they cost so much more to replace than grid storage batteries.
The famous 129 MW.hr grid storage battery in South Australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve

was supplied by Elon Musk and the cells came of his Tesla production line. It uses exactly the same cells as a Tesla car.

So the electric company would have to shell out a lot more money to use them if the BEV owners are smart enough to understand.
Deluded rubbish.
I know they would have to pay me dearly to use my battery, because I want to use it as long as I can, it is very expensive to replace.

The battery is an expensive item. \"The process of swapping it for new one should be pretty straight-forward and quick.\"

Gnatguy tried to use text-chopping to lie about what I was actually saying. I\'ve snipped most of it.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SNIPPERMAN is ACCUSING ME of SNIPPING!!!! WHAT A HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, here it is AGAIN!

Another JEWEL from the Bozo! The battery is an EXPENSIVE ITEM! WOW!! Why don\'t you grace with MORE pearls of wisdom, like \"the Sun rises in the morning AND sets in the evening!!!!\"

So is replacing an ENGINE, you DORK!!!!!!
Replacing an engine is actually a lot more complicated that swapping a battery.

Not really for properly trained technician.

The engine is hooked up to the radiator, the gas tank, the drive train, the accelerator pedal and a whole lot of dashboard displays. The battery in an EV is functionally closer to the gas tank in a car with internal combustion engine.

Hey Bozo, the battery is a structural component and the car has to be DISASSEMBLED to replace it. I doubt that there is a significant difference in the labor to do this vs an ICE, but if there is then PRODUCE THE DATA!!!!

Nothing has to be as carefully aligned as the drive train. Gnatguy clearly hasn\'t ever had to swap an engine (or a gear box).

Your fucking mechanical skills are that of a kindergartner.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:36:52 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 9:24:59 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:06:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 8:17:05 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 4:21:52 AM UTC+10, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 12:25:03 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn\'t enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.

In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.

If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).

Rich C does have an emotional objection to the idea, but if the car owners were paid enough for the service they might feel better about it.

You think it\'s emotional, but that\'s your go-to idea for everything you can\'t understand. It\'s someone else\'s emotions.
I can understand your emotions. Your problem is that you can\'t.
The economics simply don\'t work for using car batteries as grid storage because they cost so much more to replace than grid storage batteries.
The famous 129 MW.hr grid storage battery in South Australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve

was supplied by Elon Musk and the cells came of his Tesla production line. It uses exactly the same cells as a Tesla car.

So the electric company would have to shell out a lot more money to use them if the BEV owners are smart enough to understand.
Deluded rubbish.
I know they would have to pay me dearly to use my battery, because I want to use it as long as I can, it is very expensive to replace.

The battery is an expensive item. \"The process of swapping it for new one should be pretty straight-forward and quick.\"

Gnatguy tried to use text-chopping to lie about what I was actually saying. I\'ve snipped most of it.

<snipped more lying>

So is replacing an ENGINE !!!!!

Replacing an engine is actually a lot more complicated that swapping a battery.

The engine is hooked up to the radiator, the gas tank, the drive train, the accelerator pedal and a whole lot of dashboard displays. The battery in an EV is functionally closer to the gas tank in a car with internal combustion engine.

Not really for properly trained technician.

No amount of training make a simple job more difficult than a complicated job.

> Hey Bozo, the battery is a structural component and the car has to be DISASSEMBLED to replace it.

To some extent. Getting an engine out takes more thorough disassembly. Think about the drive train.

> I doubt that there is a significant difference in the labor to do this vs an ICE, but if there is then PRODUCE THE DATA!!!!

Why bother. It\'s obvious - not to you, but you are an idiot.

Nothing has to be as carefully aligned as the drive train. Gnatguy clearly hasn\'t ever had to swap an engine (or a gear box).

Your fucking mechanical skills are that of a kindergartner.

Yours seem to be. Mine are rather more advanced than that. It\'s been a while since I took the head off my car\'s engine and ground in a new set of valves, but I was long out of kindergarten by then.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Ricky]

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 12:08:20 PM UTC-4, Robert Latest wrote:

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.
Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and
if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.

I recall from my childhood that we had a second meter for the water heater. It cut off heating at peak time and we got a cheaper rate. My dad was all about cheaper rates. But after some many years, they electric company took out that second meter and ran it all together again. I wonder why that was? Wasn\'t that good for everyone?

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 12:25:03 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn\'t enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.

In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.

If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).

Rich C does have an emotional objection to the idea, but if the car owners were paid enough for the service they might feel better about it.

You think it\'s emotional, but that\'s your go-to idea for everything you can\'t understand. It\'s someone else\'s emotions.

The economics simply don\'t work for using car batteries as grid storage because they cost so much more to replace than grid storage batteries. So the electric company would have to shell out a lot more money to use them if the BEV owners are smart enough to understand. I know they would have to pay me dearly to use my battery, because I want to use it as long as I can, it is very expensive to replace. I might well get through the lifetime of the car without replacing it. If the power company pays me a couple of thousand dollars for using it which shortens its life prematurely, my spending $22,000 for another few years of use is not advantageous for me. So I would most likely not participate.

It might be useful to the power company for that 1% remaining or perhaps it\'s more realistic to say, the once in a month peak need. But even then, someone has to pay for the additional electronics and communications required.. That might make the once a month usage, on top of the high per kWh rate, uneconomical. Why pay a couple of thousand to use 10 kWh once a month when you can probably build that 10 kWh for the couple of thousand, plus the use fees that would have to be paid over the life of the system. After all, this is the excess capacity you talk about building into the system that gets used for arbitrage, generating income. If it can\'t be used for storage when required, there\'s no point in adding to the same equipment.

This is the sort of analysis a bean counter would look at and tell us what is useful and what is not. I\'m thinking it\'s not. The grid storage is just so practical, it\'s rather pointless to try to guild that lily with much more expensive V2G. YMMV

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 12:49:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 9:25:03 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn\'t enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.

In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.
We just need more reliable chargers around and we can carry smaller batteries.

Oh, you do make me laugh. Tee, hee, hee.

If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).
If and only if they are tied to the grid.
Rich C does have an emotional objection to the idea, but if the car owners were paid enough for the service they might feel better about it.
He won\'t object as long as it works for Tesla.

It won\'t work for me. I only vote for my car.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 1:52:43 PM UTC-4, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

On 2022-09-05 18:08, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and
if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.

If anything, I\'d expect the number of cars on the road to grow.
Soon we\'ll see driverless cars going somewhere all by themselves
to pick someone up!

I think GM is backing a project referred to a Cruise which recently got approval to operate a self driving taxi. Lots of restrictions and there had to be a person giving it oversight. The next day it was in an accident. So the cars were recalled and will have another go in a bit.

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 4:22:50 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On 5 Sep 2022 16:08:12 GMT, Robert Latest <bobl...@yahoo.com> wrote:

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and
if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
The green movement is precisely intended to create energy poverty in
the working classes, and part of that is to take away our cars. So the
elites will have more room on the freeways for their SUV caravans on
the way to their private jets.

Damn! Larkin cracked the code and read the secret manifesto! I guess we all know what will happen to him now. Anyone can have an accident, like falling UP stairs.

--

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ed Lee]

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 11:25:44 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 1:52:43 PM UTC-4, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
On 2022-09-05 18:08, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and
if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.

If anything, I\'d expect the number of cars on the road to grow.
Soon we\'ll see driverless cars going somewhere all by themselves
to pick someone up!
I think GM is backing a project referred to a Cruise which recently got approval to operate a self driving taxi. Lots of restrictions and there had to be a person giving it oversight. The next day it was in an accident. So the cars were recalled and will have another go in a bit.

Cruise can now drive without driver at night in SF.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 4:21:52 AM UTC+10, Ricky wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 12:25:03 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn\'t enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.

In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.

If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).

Rich C does have an emotional objection to the idea, but if the car owners were paid enough for the service they might feel better about it.

You think it\'s emotional, but that\'s your go-to idea for everything you can\'t understand. It\'s someone else\'s emotions.

I can understand your emotions. Your problem is that you can\'t.

> The economics simply don\'t work for using car batteries as grid storage because they cost so much more to replace than grid storage batteries.

The famous 129 MW.hr grid storage battery in South Australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve

was supplied by Elon Musk and the cells came of his Tesla production line. It uses exactly the same cells as a Tesla car.

> So the electric company would have to shell out a lot more money to use them if the BEV owners are smart enough to understand.

Deluded rubbish.

> I know they would have to pay me dearly to use my battery, because I want to use it as long as I can, it is very expensive to replace.

The battery is an expensive item. The process of swapping it for new one should be pretty straight-forward and quick.

I might well get through the lifetime of the car without replacing it. If the power company pays me a couple of thousand dollars for using it which shortens its life prematurely, my spending $22,000 for another few years of use is not advantageous for me. So I would most likely not participate.

It might be useful to the power company for that 1% remaining or perhaps it\'s more realistic to say, the once in a month peak need. But even then, someone has to pay for the additional electronics and communications required.

Communications are cheap. People witter on about using Wi-Fi to talk to smart chargers, as if we hadn\'t been using mains wiring to carry high frequency signalling for years. Powerline adaptors have been a consumer product for twenty years now. My wife\'s computer in her study ran on one pretty much from when we moved back to Australia. A few years ago Microsoft decided that it was an Ethernet link to my computer and thus a security risk , so I had to plug in a satellite Wi-Fi transmitter to keep them happy.

The electronics in the charger are complicated enough that making them bidirectional isn\'t going to be a big deal

> That might make the once a month usage, on top of the high per kWh rate, uneconomical.

You can make your own guesses about the economics. Better informnd and better qualified people seem to have other ideas.

<snipped more guesswork>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Robert Latest]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and
if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.

There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn\'t enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.

In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.

If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).

Rich C does have an emotional objection to the idea, but if the car owners were paid enough for the service they might feel better about it.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Ed Lee]

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 9:25:03 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn\'t enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.

In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.

We just need more reliable chargers around and we can carry smaller batteries.

> If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).

If and only if they are tied to the grid.

> Rich C does have an emotional objection to the idea, but if the car owners were paid enough for the service they might feel better about it.

He won\'t object as long as it works for Tesla.

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

On 2022-09-05 18:08, Robert Latest wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and
if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.

If anything, I\'d expect the number of cars on the road to grow.
Soon we\'ll see driverless cars going somewhere all by themselves
to pick someone up!

Jeroen Belleman