Toshiba TV29C90 problem; Image fades to black...

[James Sweet]

Yeppers... Until a few years ago, I had an old GE Weathertron heat pump system.
Terribly inefficient by today's standards, but it got the job done. It had a
vacuum sensor in the outside unit that sensed a drop in air pressure inside the
coils, whereupon it switched into defrost mode. It ran the auxillary heat
strips while in defrost mode to keep from cooling the house while in defrost. A
capillary sensed the coil temperature and switched back into heat pump mode when
the coil temp got high enough. It worked quite well; only went into defrost
when necessary.

Scared me the first time I saw it defrosting... the big column of vapor steaming
up from the unit was awesome. I thought the thing was on fire!!

I had to replace the entire system when the compressor locked up after 25 or so
years of operation. Don't know how the Lennox system I bought as the
replacement determines that it needs to defrost... could be a timer. But it
seems to work well, even in sub-freezing temps and high Florida humidity.

Cheers!!!

I'd actually really like to see one of the systems that used the vacuum
switch, they were largely before my time so I had to figure out on my
own how to make the thing work once a friend of mine stumbled across the
switches at a surplus joint and clued me in.

Some of those old systems were not as inneficient as you might be lead
to believe by the guys who install this stuff who are usually all too
eager to sell you a brand new system. Keep the coils clean and install a
TXV to replace the old cap tube or orifice metering device inside and
they can work pretty well, the tech has not really changed all that
much. I'm sure countless systems have been replaced at great expense for
problems as simple as a burned contactor or a broken wire to the compressor.

Of course a compressor replacement is a big job on the best of days and
it's hard to find anyone willing to work on the old stuff anymore. The
general attitude of the HVAC industry as a whole is what pushed me to
learn to do this stuff myself. Several years ago when I first started
inquiring about it I found the vast majority of the guys I ran into who
did it were a bunch of pompous a**holes. I'm sure they're not all like
that but it takes only a few bad apples to spoil the whole barrel. I
researched for a few months soaking up everything I could get my hands
on, then went and got my EPA certification and put together my own
system with surplus parts and have been having fun tinkering with this
stuff ever since. It's not always a walk in the park but rocket science
it ain't.

 

[James Sweet]

Homer J Simpson wrote:

"DaveM" <masondg4499@comcast99.net> wrote in message
news:sPadnaR7F9HBgWrYnZ2dnUVZ_hmtnZ2d@comcast.com...


I had to replace the entire system when the compressor locked up after 25
or so years of operation. Don't know how the Lennox system I bought as
the replacement determines that it needs to defrost... could be a timer.
But it seems to work well, even in sub-freezing temps and high Florida
humidity.


These days you are better off to look at one of the Japanese split system
heat pumps.

What brands are Japanese? HVAC is one of the few areas where I haven't
run into much foreign equipment. Either way this stuff is pretty
dependable for the most part, properly installed there isn't much to go
wrong. There are not that many different companies that make the
internal bits, and efficiency regulations have limited the number of
corners that can be cut in the manufacture.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:E%IJh.1927$y56.885@trnddc07...

I was actually thinking more along the lines of domestic refrigerators
where a defrost element is turned on on a regular basis so you have to pay
for the power that uses, then you pay again to pump that heat back out of
the freezer. Using the compressor to defrost would be ~3x as efficient and
it would put the heat exactly where it's needed.

A conventional system has only three moving parts - the rotor and valves in
the compressor. A reversing valve adds complication and reduces reliability.

 

[James Sweet]

Homer J Simpson wrote:

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:E%IJh.1927$y56.885@trnddc07...


I was actually thinking more along the lines of domestic refrigerators
where a defrost element is turned on on a regular basis so you have to pay
for the power that uses, then you pay again to pump that heat back out of
the freezer. Using the compressor to defrost would be ~3x as efficient and
it would put the heat exactly where it's needed.


A conventional system has only three moving parts - the rotor and valves in
the compressor. A reversing valve adds complication and reduces reliability.

Wouldn't have to be a reversing valve, just a bypass valve. It would
eliminate the defrost element and improve efficiency, I don't see it
substantially reducing reliability.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:z9JJh.1930$y56.1924@trnddc07...

What brands are Japanese? HVAC is one of the few areas where I haven't run
into much foreign equipment. Either way this stuff is pretty dependable
for the most part, properly installed there isn't much to go wrong. There
are not that many different companies that make the internal bits, and
efficiency regulations have limited the number of corners that can be cut
in the manufacture.

They're very big in the northern parts of Australia.

Try (split system heat pump site:.au)

The inside unit looks like a skirting heater but mounts higher on the wall.
The compressor is outside so much quieter. Of course they don't suit the
ducted systems used in N America.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

"Captain Midnight" <Notany@twip.invalid> wrote in message
news:45f732f5$0$8973$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

Their is no explosion in a properly operating internal combustion engine.

Sure there is. But you want it at the correct time in the cycle. Knocking is
caused by misfiring.

 

[clifto]

Arfa Daily wrote:

That seems to me to be a misleading description of the principles of an
internal combustion engine. The fuel is mixed with the air in a very
carefully controlled ratio, highly compressed, and is then set light to,
either by a spark in the case of a gasoline engine, or by self ignition from
the rapid heating of the mixture during compression, in the case of a
diesel. It burns or combusts, and what comes out of the exhaust, after the
burning, is not air, but a fully reduced residue of the burning process.

To add to your excellent explanation, the byproducts of combustion, such
as carbon dioxide, together occupy more volume than the fuel-air mixture
did, and the heat generated by the rapid burn further increases the total
volume.

--
Martians drive SUVs! <http://oregonmag.com/MarsWarm307.html>

 

[James Sweet]

They're very big in the northern parts of Australia.

Try (split system heat pump site:.au)

The inside unit looks like a skirting heater but mounts higher on the wall.
The compressor is outside so much quieter. Of course they don't suit the
ducted systems used in N America.

Ah, we can get those here, they're called mini splits, always struck me
as shockingly expensive though, even surplus they're not any cheaper
than a standard full sized split system.

 

[Captain Midnight]

"Homer J Simpson" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:_DJJh.41829$lY6.17214@edtnps90...

"Captain Midnight" <Notany@twip.invalid> wrote in message
news:45f732f5$0$8973$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

Their is no explosion in a properly operating internal combustion
engine.

Sure there is. But you want it at the correct time in the cycle. Knocking
is
caused by misfiring.

Detonation is all of the fuel burning at once(explosion). A proper flame
path will happen relatively slowly to push the piston(burn). The beginning
of the burn is timed to push the piston when the crank is in the proper
position. How long the burn lasts and it's timing is dependent on engine
design and application. If an explosion was acceptable there'd be no need
for high octane fuel. Apparently you've never seen a piston with a hole in
the crown. It's like the difference of flipping a light switch with your
finger or hitting it with a hammer.

Pinging is hot spots in the combustion chamber causing self ignition at the
wrong time. The extra heat from this can cause detonation though.

 

[Harry Stottle]

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:E%IJh.1927$y56.885@trnddc07...

Cost, cost, cost, cost.

What's wrong with a couple pans of hot water, rags at bottom, close
the door,
wait an hour while you do something else! People who have to have
instant
gratification for a task that's performed once a year if that!

I was actually thinking more along the lines of domestic refrigerators
where a defrost element is turned on on a regular basis so you have to
pay for the power that uses, then you pay again to pump that heat back
out of the freezer. Using the compressor to defrost would be ~3x as
efficient and it would put the heat exactly where it's needed.

As most of that heat is produced by the cooling process, once the
cooling process is interrupted, any heat pumped by the compressor would
be greatly reduced, also the compressor probably takes more power to run
than a defrost heater, so it would cost more to run using the idea you
suggested.

Have we found out yet if the original problem was caused by a punctured
system?

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

James Sweet <jamessweet@hotmail.com> writes:

Cost, cost, cost, cost.

What's wrong with a couple pans of hot water, rags at bottom, close the door,
wait an hour while you do something else! People who have to have instant
gratification for a task that's performed once a year if that!

I was actually thinking more along the lines of domestic refrigerators
where a defrost element is turned on on a regular basis so you have to
pay for the power that uses, then you pay again to pump that heat back
out of the freezer. Using the compressor to defrost would be ~3x as
efficient and it would put the heat exactly where it's needed.

But what percentage of the energy goes into defrost?

The defrost thermostat is supposed to cut off the heater when all the
ice melts.

If the 400? watt heater actually runs for 5 minutes every 6 hours, that's
about 0.13 kWh/day which is negligible compared to the fridge's cooling
power consumption.

Also, of course, this takes place only in the evaporator compartment, which
is not actually in the freezer box itself. So, it's mainly the aluminum
tubes and fins that need to be cooled back down.

I agree with another reply - the simpler, the better for what's inside
the sealed system.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CpMJh.16165$mh7.13122@trnddc04...

Ah, we can get those here, they're called mini splits, always struck me as
shockingly expensive though, even surplus they're not any cheaper than a
standard full sized split system.

I suspect the price is high because they are new. They would be a good add
on for a hot water heat system where there's no ducting.

 

[James Sweet]

As most of that heat is produced by the cooling process, once the
cooling process is interrupted, any heat pumped by the compressor would
be greatly reduced, also the compressor probably takes more power to run
than a defrost heater, so it would cost more to run using the idea you
suggested.

Have we found out yet if the original problem was caused by a punctured
system?

Well it's not my fridge so I haven't found the problem, it was someone
else's post.

As for the power, I've only ever measured my own refrigerator.
Compressor draws about 130W once the head pressure builds up. Defrost
heater draws a bit over 600W, and I suspect using the compressor for
defrost would defrost more quickly so I bet you'd still come out quite
ahead. Heat pumps are in general about 3x the BTUs per watt of
resistance heat.

 

[Michael Kennedy]

"Sam Goldwasser" <sam@red.seas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:6w4poqmyvq.fsf@red.seas.upenn.edu...

Bert <Albert@coldmail.com.invalid> writes:

b [reverend_rogers@yahoo.com] said:

Gummo ha escrito:
My son's fridge/freezer has been leaking gas tonight. It doesn't
look good
for the fridge - I told him to turn it off and open the kitchen
window.

The question is, although Curry's one year guarantee expired a year
ago and
knowing that, by law, the appliance should last at least 5 years
before
something like this happens, who do I hold responsible? Currys or
Hoover?

Gummo

cross posted to sci electronics repair. maybe someone there cn shed
some light on the cause .

On the basis that fridge coolant is a, in a secret life, really an
electronic component?

Degreaser?

Or, that it's an electronic problem once the compressor burns out.

Seriously, perflectly legitimate to post here.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above
is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included
in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

Yeah especially since there are many knowledgeable people here that know
about lots of different things other than electronics.

It also makes for interesting discussions and reading. ;-)

- Mike

 

[Gummo]

"Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in message
news:TlPJh.2570$_v3.771@newsfe1-

Have we found out yet if the original problem was caused by a punctured
system?

My son called C&G, Currys maintenance sub-contractor, who want Ł100 to look
at it but which he declined pending signs of the until actually stopping its
cooling function. Until then I don't think he can conclusively claim the
thing's broke!

Gummo

 

[Homer J Simpson]

"Gummo" <gummomarxpleasenospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mf8Kh.5133$GI.4286@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...

"Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in message
news:TlPJh.2570$_v3.771@newsfe1-

Have we found out yet if the original problem was caused by a punctured
system?

My son called C&G, Currys maintenance sub-contractor, who want Ł100 to
look at it but which he declined pending signs of the until actually
stopping its cooling function. Until then I don't think he can
conclusively claim the thing's broke!

I used to come to the house and take a look for 7/6d

Man I must be old!

 

[James Sweet]

Homer J Simpson wrote:

"Gummo" <gummomarxpleasenospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mf8Kh.5133$GI.4286@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...

"Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in message
news:TlPJh.2570$_v3.771@newsfe1-


Have we found out yet if the original problem was caused by a punctured
system?

My son called C&G, Currys maintenance sub-contractor, who want Ł100 to
look at it but which he declined pending signs of the until actually
stopping its cooling function. Until then I don't think he can
conclusively claim the thing's broke!


I used to come to the house and take a look for 7/6d

Man I must be old!

I'll do it for pizza and/or beer on occasion, but only when it's local
to me.

 

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

Do they still sell fridges that aren't "frost free"?.

I have a "nearly full size" GE unit made in 2001 that has a "semi-frost
free" refrigerator section and a conventional must-be-defrosted freezer
area.

It's a rework of an old design, or so it would appear. This one uses 134a
refrigerant. I bought it secondhand and saw units sitting right next to it
that were a few years older and R-12 based. Although there probably was no
real difference in functionality (this thing cools very well!) I figured it
would be easier to get rid of at the end of its useful life compared to the
ones filled with R-12.

Curiously enough, this unit was made in Slovenia. I'd never heard of
refrigeration equipment being made there!

William

 

[Radiosrfun]

"moslim" <lovelydiab@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174263311.020174.208300@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...

Excuse me!!
muslim5@hotmail.com

There isn't any excuse for you, your kind or your phoney religion. Don't you
assholes ever give up?

PLONK!

 

[mark krawczuk]

Detonation is all of the fuel burning at once(explosion). A proper flame

path will happen relatively slowly to push the piston(burn).
tell me what is the change over point at which a "slow burn" turns to a

explosion.
u want the fuel to burn slow , so teh engine runs slower ?

you are incorrect , dentonation is the IGNITING of fuel at the wrong time
..



hmmm of course its a explosion, i`ll put u in a petrol vapour filled room
with a sparkplug connected up to a engine , via a long plug lead, then i`ll
crank the engine over KABOOM !!!!of course its gonna explode.







"Captain Midnight" <Notany@twip.invalid> wrote in message
news:45f79c1e$0$27030$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

"Homer J Simpson" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:_DJJh.41829$lY6.17214@edtnps90...

"Captain Midnight" <Notany@twip.invalid> wrote in message
news:45f732f5$0$8973$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

Their is no explosion in a properly operating internal combustion
engine.

Sure there is. But you want it at the correct time in the cycle. Knocking
is
caused by misfiring.


Detonation is all of the fuel burning at once(explosion). A proper flame
path will happen relatively slowly to push the piston(burn). The beginning
of the burn is timed to push the piston when the crank is in the proper
position. How long the burn lasts and it's timing is dependent on engine
design and application. If an explosion was acceptable there'd be no need
for high octane fuel. Apparently you've never seen a piston with a hole in
the crown. It's like the difference of flipping a light switch with your
finger or hitting it with a hammer.

Pinging is hot spots in the combustion chamber causing self ignition at
the
wrong time. The extra heat from this can cause detonation though.