Toshiba TV29C90 problem; Image fades to black...

[Wild_Bill]

I like CFLs in the high color temperatures (daylight) for the natural colors
of objects, and because I'm not bothered by the flicker of typical ceiling
fixture and smaller fluorescent (long) tubes (and I've put in a
half-century, too, and won't mind not being around after another one).

I don't particularly like the mercury vapor issue or the far-short lifetimes
of the CFLs. I haven't gotten over 2 years of service from the CFLs packaged
as 5-7 year lamps.. and I believe this same hoax is being perptetuated for
LEDs.

It's nothing new, and the same pitch always works because hardly anyone pays
attention to how effective new products actually are, as far as return on
investment.
The marketing hype is the same: These (product) will pay for themselves,
just look at these numbers.
The numbers are generally never accurate because they're based upon best
case scenarios (not increasing energy costs, etc).

I don't think there will be much to salvage from CFLs or LEDs in the way of
recycling.. what's worth anything inside them? I did notice that the new
LEDs lamps have heatsinks, so the metal might be recoverable.

What kind of apparatus makes it possible to recycle the acrylic from LEDs?
But without having the acrylic contaminated with gallium arsenide?
Chemical stripper followed by a process to clean the acrylic?

As I suspect proper recycling will most likely just mean "dumping in the
ocean", what cost effective use could there be for a used circuit board
populated with LEDs and a few common components?

In order for something to be recyclable, there needs to be a profit
associated with the recycled product.

The bullshit is madness.. just sayin'

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:c3beq.1088$vN4.15@newsfe12.ams2...

I'm really not sure that I understand your point here. You seem in favour
of CFLs, but against LEDs because they will have a greater environmental
impact than incandescents did. Well yes. That is of course true, but the
manufacturing processes involved in a CFL lamp, are still many more than
in a LED lamp, with a correspondingly larger energy budget to make and
ship all those parts. Further, the CFLs have a higher disposal energy
budget, because they contain toxic chemicals that have to be recycled
properly. Granted, LED fixtures should probably also be recycled if only
to regain the materials, but at least they are not fundamentally toxic as
CFLs are, and it would be no great shakes from an environmental impact
point of view, if they did finish up in landfill. It's the fact that the
green mist brigade only see the "less power used" angle of CFLs, and not
the hugely complex and energy-thirsty manufacturing processes, that really
gets up my nose.

Arfa

 

[Wild_Bill]

Just a WAG.. 240VAC line voltage compared to 120V in the US. Other than this
difference, I'll stick to my previous statement of maybe I'm just lucky..
that the ones I've been using light up quickly (but fail in less than half
the time stated on the packaging.. yep, lucky).

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:9dsp8gFu4U1@mid.individual.net...

On 21/09/2011 2:34 AM, Wild_Bill wrote:

Only the very early versions of CFLs I purchased were slow to reach full
output.. maybe I've just been lucky, but the ones I use every day come
on quickly.

My experience has been that they're fine when new, but as they age, they
take longer and longer to reach, or even approach, full brightness.

I had been under the impression from previous discussion that this was
attributed to the deteriorating ESR in cheap capacitors, but that view
doesn't seem to be getting any support here.

Sylvia.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 21/09/2011 2:34 AM, Wild_Bill wrote:

Only the very early versions of CFLs I purchased were slow to reach
full output.. maybe I've just been lucky, but the ones I use every
day come on quickly.

My experience has been that they're fine when new, but as they age,
they take longer and longer to reach, or even approach, full
brightness.
I had been under the impression from previous discussion that this was
attributed to the deteriorating ESR in cheap capacitors, but that view
doesn't seem to be getting any support here.

**Because it's bollocks. I have a lot of CFLs around the place. I use a
light meter to monitor one lamp, in order to guage it's approximate life.
During the Winter, it takes a long time (about 1 minute) to reach full
brightness. In Summer, full brightness is reached in a few seconds. This has
not altered significantly in 6 years.

FWIW: The lamp is a 23 Watt Philips type. It is operated around 1.5 hours
per day and there has been a 5% fall in Lux over the past 6 years.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Trevor Wilson]

Wild_Bill wrote:

I like CFLs in the high color temperatures (daylight) for the natural
colors of objects, and because I'm not bothered by the flicker of
typical ceiling fixture and smaller fluorescent (long) tubes (and
I've put in a half-century, too, and won't mind not being around
after another one).
I don't particularly like the mercury vapor issue or the far-short
lifetimes of the CFLs. I haven't gotten over 2 years of service from
the CFLs packaged as 5-7 year lamps.. and I believe this same hoax is
being perptetuated for LEDs.

**Points:

* It's not a hoax. LEDs last a very long time. White ones, not so long. I
have some first generation white LEDs that are still working after a decade
of 24/7 operation. Light output is around 50% of new.
* I have CFLs that have been in service for around 10 years. The only two
failures I've experienced were mechanical (I dropped them).
* If you buy crap CFLs, you can expect poor service. I only buy premium
quality CFLs.

It's nothing new, and the same pitch always works because hardly
anyone pays attention to how effective new products actually are, as
far as return on investment.

**I do. I keep track of the life of my lamps. Incandescents don't last long.
CFLs last a very long time.

The marketing hype is the same: These (product) will pay for
themselves, just look at these numbers.
The numbers are generally never accurate because they're based upon
best case scenarios (not increasing energy costs, etc).

I don't think there will be much to salvage from CFLs or LEDs in the
way of recycling.. what's worth anything inside them?

**Aluminium. Nothing else of use. Fortunately, they last a VERY long time,
so they don't need to be recylced often. Incandescents are different. They
use a LOT of silicon, solder and some brass (or plated steel). Hardly any is
recoverable economically. And wait: It gets worse. Incandescents don't last
long. I get around 100 hours from my lone incandescent and around 300 hours
from hy halogens. Some of my CFLs have clocked up more than 5,000 hours and
are still chugging along.

I did notice

that the new LEDs lamps have heatsinks, so the metal might be
recoverable.

**Which is a lot more than you can recover from incandescents.

What kind of apparatus makes it possible to recycle the acrylic from
LEDs? But without having the acrylic contaminated with gallium
arsenide? Chemical stripper followed by a process to clean the acrylic?

As I suspect proper recycling will most likely just mean "dumping in
the ocean", what cost effective use could there be for a used circuit
board populated with LEDs and a few common components?

**Given the very long life-span of LEDs, you won' have to worry too much.

In order for something to be recyclable, there needs to be a profit
associated with the recycled product.

The bullshit is madness.. just sayin'

**I agree. You spin so much bullshit, that it is madness.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Phil Allison]

"Trevor Wilson"

Incandescents are different. They use a LOT of silicon,

** FFS Trevor - get your fist off it !!!!

There is no "silicon" used make an incandescent lamp - just a few grams of
sand.

NO comparison exists with evil semiconductor manufacture.

solder and some brass (or plated steel).

** You forgot the tungsten.

Kinda the most important bit.

And the base contact material is the same as used for CFLs.

Wot an IDIOT.



..... Phil

 

[Wild_Bill]

Maybe you know of a heat pump that will illuminate a house, and only cost
the owner about $20 per year to purchase.

Production of plastics pollutes, so does gallium arsenide, and mercury in
CFLs.
Were you born yesterday?

Just because the pollution takes place somewhere else doesn't mean it
doesn't effect all.
Ubuntu.

Some say that only about 1% of the water on this planet is drinkable,
although there's plenty that's contaminated with toxic chemicals and
disease.
Many people drink and bathe in poisonous, disease polluted water, but that
shouldn't concern you.

Who is dying from silicon?

Dealing with pollution means having the nasty shit made somewhere else..
like a poor country.

Proof? Where's the proof that the incandescent light bulb you bought was
packaged in plastic?
For how long have incandescents been packaged in paper products.. well over
100 years. Those paper packages are broken down, but old plastics continue
to pollute.

You going to burn those scrap plastics to generate more power? How about in
your town?
Obviously you haven't seen any reports of huge artificial island-like masses
in the oceans, made up of discarded plastic products/waste.

The "extremely" long life of CFLs and now LEDs is a projected number. As
I've mentioned elsewhere, I have yet to get over 2 years of life from those
"5-7 year" CFLs I've been buying for over a decade.

Did you eat a lot of lead paint as a child? It was banned and lead paint was
replaced it with a new latex paint.. which contained mercury.

You don't mention how many of those first-generation LEDs you're using, are
the only lighting in a room. Maybe you're referring to night lights, like
the ones that show where walls are when you're walking around in the dark.
So how many of those buggers does it take to light a room? I mean bright
enough so everything can be seen.
At night, so you can see the pattern in the carpet, or read a book or find a
pencil dropped under a table.
Like I stated before.. the new LED lamps I've seen won't fit many existing
light fixtures, so get ready to spend.

One way to insure that LED lighting won't be cheaper in the future is to ban
other types of lighting.. apparently you delight in being gullible.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:9dse5pFcrmU1@mid.individual.net...

Wild_Bill wrote:
I also favor the light temperature of the daylight or sunlight CF
lamps, which are typically over 6000K. My eyes adapt to the light
very well, although I rarely use direct lighting.. most of my CFLs
are pointed upward for bounce lighting.

The majority of incandescents give off a red light, and I've read
that up to 90% of the output from incancescent lights is in the
infrared region.

**95% ~ 98% is far closer to reality. Halogens are somewhat more
efficient.

For folks that experience cold weather for half of
the year, the infrared adds to their comfort.

**So do heat pumps, which are vastly more efficient.


This is easily seen when using film photography as the color levels
aren't natural, but shifted so far that a blue filter is needed to
achieve natural colors.

Only the very early versions of CFLs I purchased were slow to reach
full output.. maybe I've just been lucky, but the ones I use every
day come on quickly.

I strongly suspect that widespread use of LED lighting will have a
much more severe impact on the environment that using incandescents.
The environutz are easily mislead.

**As are you. Provide your proof that LED lighting will have a much more
severe impact on the environment.


I believe that the manufacture of LED lighting will use more energy
and create more pollutants than glass lamps ever did.

**You "believe" it, do you? Got some proof? In your proof, you may
consider the following:

* LEDs use a miniscule amount of silicon.
* Incandescent lamps use a very large amount of silicon
* LEDs can easily last 100 times longer than incandescent lamps.
* LEDs are at least 10 times more efficient than incandescents (and around
5 ~ 6 times more efficient than halogens).

The plastics
and various compounds used for component manufacturing will result in
more irreversible air and water contamination.

**Really? Are you trying to suggest that it is impossible to deal with the
pollution caused by the manufacture of semiconductors? Curious.

The extra slap in the face comes with the excessive plastic packaging
the CFLs are usually sold in.

**Huh? You talking about CFLs or LEDs? Either way, the last CFLs and LED
downlights I purchased were packed in recycled cardboard. No plastic in
sight.

. when old glass lamps were generally
packaged in easily recycled paper products (even as litter, the paper
breaks down to something useful).

**Curiously enough, the last incandescent I purchased (a halogen) was
packed in a cardboard/plastic material. Far less enviroinmentally
sensitive than the LEDs and CFLs I bought.

In addition to increased energy usage, the waste issue of CFLs and LED
lights presents more pollutants than a simple glass lamp ever did.

**Really? What are the waste products you speak of? Have you factored in
the extremely long life of CFLs and LEDs? (I have 19 CFLs in my home, 1
incandescent and a dozen halogens). In six years, I've replaced the
incandescent 2 times (VERY rarely used). I've replaced 10 halogens (rarely
used) and, except for two dropped CFLs, none have been replaced, despite
being used for upwards of 6 hours per day.


The LED lamps aren't going to last for an average of 10 years,

**I'm still using some first generation white LEDs. They're left on 24/7
and have been for more than 10 years. The latest ones are brighter and
should last much longer.

not
when they'll be manufactured in China/India/etc by the lowest bidder,
and using lead-free solder and the cheapest components available.
The marketing hype and lip service are BS, as they generally always
are.

**YOU have no clue. None whatsoever.


The data is generally never presented in real-world terms, and there
won't be any significant data presented, such as the conversion of
Las Vegas to LED lighting.

The LED lamps that I've seen at stores won't fit in most common
existing lighting fixtures, and have a price of $30-40US. This will
be a huge unnecessary expense to an average homeowner due to a ban on
incandescents.

**More bollocks. LED lighting is rapidly falling in cost. VERY rapidly
indeed. CFLs were expensive a few years back and now they cost barely more
than incandescents. They last many times longer and use far less energy.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Wild_Bill]

Perhaps the greater issue will be failure of the lead-free solder due to
internal temperatures in new designs of LED lighting which will be intended
to replace a common lamps of significant wattage.

Powerful LEDs also create heat, and when a lot of 'em are fit into a small
package, the heat will very likely be a reason for very short life from the
new technology.

Combining the lead-free solder with the cheapest manufacturer that exists
will probably reduce the projected (dreamed) lifetimes from 10 years to
maybe 2 years.

At about $30 each (and it's likely more of them will be needed to reach
comfortable lighting levels), the greatest benefit these lamps will have,
will be separating consumers from their money.

Anyone that's been servicing consumer electronic gear in the past several
decades has seen the impact that heat has on solder connections, and more
recently, the widespread failures of lead-free solders.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:d9a6113d-95d2-4a1f-8772-7b0c8ef5ac37@w21g2000yql.googlegroups.com...

Aren't LEDs also temperature sensitive? Because I had a hot chassis
TV with optical couplers for the composite video and audio, and the
picture brightness & contrast would change slightly when it warmed
up. There were also pots to adjust the couplers.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

Wild_Bill wrote:

Maybe you know of a heat pump that will illuminate a house, and only
cost the owner about $20 per year to purchase.

**I don't. And YOU don't know of a lamp that can heat a house (or cool one)
either. Using lights to warm a home is insane. Pretty much like everything
else you've posted.

Production of plastics pollutes, so does gallium arsenide, and
mercury in CFLs.

**No one disputes that. Production of almost any manufactured item causes
some kind of pollution. That is why regulators ensure that the pollution
created is dealt with appropriately. Fortunately, LEDs last a VERY long time
and consume small amounts of material, so total pollution remains low.

Were you born yesterday?

**Did the manufacturing process of computer you are presently using cause
zero pollution? Are you insane?

Just because the pollution takes place somewhere else doesn't mean it
doesn't effect all.

**I am well aware of that. I am also a supporter of organisations that
attempt to minimise pollution caused by large manufacturers of many
products. Are you?

Ubuntu.

Some say that only about 1% of the water on this planet is drinkable,
although there's plenty that's contaminated with toxic chemicals and
disease.
Many people drink and bathe in poisonous, disease polluted water, but
that shouldn't concern you.

**Like I said: I contribute financially to several organisations that are
active in trying to ensure that people less fortunate than I am are not
subject to pollution from large companies. Do you?

Who is dying from silicon?

**The manufacture of glass, steel and tungsten is a very energy intensive
process. Combined with the extremely short life-span of incandescent lamps
and their monsterous inefficiency (Less than 5%) contributes to huge amounts
of CO2. CFLs and LEDs cause far less CO2 to be emitted, both in manufacture
and in operation over the life of the product. CO2 affects every human on
the planet.

Dealing with pollution means having the nasty shit made somewhere
else.. like a poor country.

**Like I said before.....

Proof? Where's the proof that the incandescent light bulb you bought
was packaged in plastic?

**Geez! You think I keep the packaging? Get real.

For how long have incandescents been packaged in paper products..
well over 100 years. Those paper packages are broken down, but old
plastics continue to pollute.

**Like I said before: Both the LEDs and the CFLs were packed in cardboard,
whilst the incandescent was packed in cardboard and plastic.

You going to burn those scrap plastics to generate more power? How
about in your town?

**WFT are you smoking?

Obviously you haven't seen any reports of huge artificial island-like
masses in the oceans, made up of discarded plastic products/waste.

**Incorrect.

The "extremely" long life of CFLs and now LEDs is a projected number.

**No. It is a REAL number, verified by many users. Myself included. NONE of
my CFLs have failed. Not one. OTOH, I've replaced many incandescents over
the same period, despite the fact that they accrue VASTLY fewer hours of
use.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I have yet to get over 2 years of life
from those "5-7 year" CFLs I've been buying for over a decade.

**You're either:

* Lying.
* Buying cheap, crappy CFLs
* Using them in enclosed fittings.

Did you eat a lot of lead paint as a child? It was banned and lead
paint was replaced it with a new latex paint.. which contained
mercury.

**Strawman.

You don't mention how many of those first-generation LEDs you're
using, are the only lighting in a room. Maybe you're referring to
night lights, like the ones that show where walls are when you're
walking around in the dark.

**I'm referring to first generation white LEDs.

So how many of those buggers does it take

to light a room?

**Irrelevant. They have lasted extremely well.

I mean bright enough so everything can be seen.

At night, so you can see the pattern in the carpet, or read a book or
find a pencil dropped under a table.
Like I stated before.. the new LED lamps I've seen won't fit many
existing light fixtures, so get ready to spend.

**And, on the other side of the coin, modern LEDs can be manufactured into
completely new and different shapes.

One way to insure that LED lighting won't be cheaper in the future is
to ban other types of lighting.. apparently you delight in being
gullible.

**I delight in arguing with idiots like you.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Phil Allison]

"Trevor Wilson"

**The manufacture of glass, steel and tungsten is a very energy intensive
process.

** OTOH - the amounts used to make one light bulb are tiny and so use tiny
amounts of energy.

Combined with the extremely short life-span of incandescent lamps

** They can last 100 years in low or no use.

They often outlast CFLs in actual service.

and their monsterous inefficiency (Less than 5%) contributes to huge
amounts of CO2.

** Bollocks.

CFLs and LEDs cause far less CO2 to be emitted,

** Per lamp, it is far MORE than an incandecsent.

both in manufacture and in operation over the life of the produc.

** Absolute LIE.

Each CFLs use 50 times time more energy to make, plus a large amount of
poisonous chemical waste and then consume more energy too - if they last
their rated life.

Then they pollute the planet with Mercury and other heavy metal poisons.

No such issues with incandescents.

It is all a massive LIE .




.... Phil

 

[Trevor Wilson]

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 20/09/2011 1:11 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Has anyone here tried retrofitting low ESR capacitors to CFLs with a
view to improving their turn-on performance - i.e. so that they
reach full brightness quickly?

Sylvia.

**The full brightness thing is not associated with the electronics.
It's an issue with the gas in the tube and, to a lesser extent, the
phosphor coating. You can prove this for yourself, by measuring the
light output of a standard (iron ballast) fluoro. Light output
gradually increases over a few seconds (or minutes, depending on
ambient temperature). Don't sweat it anyway, LEDs will replace them in
most applications
very soon. I've been mucking about with a couple of these recently:

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/12w-3500k-800lm-warm-white-led-emitter-metal-strip-12-14v-80310

It delivers almost double the light output of an 11 Watt T5 fluoro
and is far more compact, dimmable and has nicer colour temperature.


Having got used to the higher colour temperatures of CFLs, I find
that I prefer them.

**CFLs are not so different to regular fluoros. Each manufacturer has
his/her own formulation for the phosphor coating. As a conseqence, the
colour balance will be slightly different for each. I find that different
lamps have different purposes. For my workbench, I need accurate colour
rendition (for checking colour codes on components) and I use 36 Watt, quad
phosphor lamps for that purpose. For other areas, I use different lamps.

Incandescents weren't given a lower colour temperature because people
preferred them, it was just the way they came out.

**Well, yes.

If the first

practical domestic electric lights had been of daylight colour
temperature, I imagine that's what everyone would always have wanted,
and people would have given short shrift to this yellow rubbish.

However, I note that the led emitter strips are available in higher
colour temperatures.

**They are available in a wide range of colour temperatures. The range is
increasing rapidly.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:9dt97uFguqU1@mid.individual.net...

Wild_Bill wrote:
Maybe you know of a heat pump that will illuminate a house, and only
cost the owner about $20 per year to purchase.

**I don't. And YOU don't know of a lamp that can heat a house (or cool
one) either. Using lights to warm a home is insane. Pretty much like
everything else you've posted.


Production of plastics pollutes, so does gallium arsenide, and
mercury in CFLs.

**No one disputes that. Production of almost any manufactured item causes
some kind of pollution. That is why regulators ensure that the pollution
created is dealt with appropriately. Fortunately, LEDs last a VERY long
time and consume small amounts of material, so total pollution remains
low.

Were you born yesterday?

**Did the manufacturing process of computer you are presently using cause
zero pollution? Are you insane?


Just because the pollution takes place somewhere else doesn't mean it
doesn't effect all.

**I am well aware of that. I am also a supporter of organisations that
attempt to minimise pollution caused by large manufacturers of many
products. Are you?

Ubuntu.

Some say that only about 1% of the water on this planet is drinkable,
although there's plenty that's contaminated with toxic chemicals and
disease.
Many people drink and bathe in poisonous, disease polluted water, but
that shouldn't concern you.

**Like I said: I contribute financially to several organisations that are
active in trying to ensure that people less fortunate than I am are not
subject to pollution from large companies. Do you?


Who is dying from silicon?

**The manufacture of glass, steel and tungsten is a very energy intensive
process. Combined with the extremely short life-span of incandescent lamps
and their monsterous inefficiency (Less than 5%) contributes to huge
amounts of CO2. CFLs and LEDs cause far less CO2 to be emitted, both in
manufacture and in operation over the life of the product. CO2 affects
every human on the planet.

I don't have actual figures, Trevor, but it makes sense that making a thin
glass spherical envelope for an incandescent, is unlikely to use more energy
than making a thick-walled tube wound into a convoluted double spiral. Many
of the other items contained in a CFL, also use very energy intensive
processes, and have to be carried out in many different factories, which
then brings the costs of moving workers around, keeping them warm and fed,
moving raw materials around, moving finished components around, and so on.
Just because all of these things are 'hidden', it doesn't make them any less
relevant. Looked at rationally, given the amount of components and
manufacturing processes involved, I would have thought that the simple
incandescent bulb, with its very few parts, consumed nothing like as much
energy overall to get from nothing to working in my house. Bear in mind
also, that very long-lived incandescents are available, and always were. Its
just that they cost more, and are not in the financial interests of the bulb
manufacturers, to promote.

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:9dsu8kF52lU1@mid.individual.net...

"Sylvia Else"
Arfa Daily wrote:


I was given to understand that the colour of an incandescent bulb is
what humans are comfortable with, because it closely matches the colour
and spectrum of our sun.

The sun's effective temperature (the blackbody temperature that gives
approximately the same spectrum) is about 5800K, which is a lot higher
than the colour temperature of an incandescent.

** Daylight has no particular colour temp.

It varies from 11,000K on a overcasts day to less than 2000K at dawn and
dusk.

However, daylight ( like incandescent light ) has a smooth spectrum and
the human eye adjusts to the varying colour temps almost perfectly.

As an interesting example, my son-in-law is currently working on an old Mini
on my drive. The other day, it was raining, so he rigged a 'tent' over the
front, from a blue plastic tarp. When I first went under there with him,
everything had a very blue caste, as you would expect. I didn't notice any
adjustment / compensation going on in my brain, but it must have been,
because when I stepped out from under there a few minutes later, the whole
world was bright yellow. A few minutes later, all was back to normal. The
strange thing is that I don't seem to be able to adjust to CFL light in the
same way. It continues to have a sort of 'sick' quality for me. Even more
curious though, is that linear fluorescents don't seem to affect me in the
same way. I work under them all day, without issue.
Arfa

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

Wild_Bill wrote:
I also favor the light temperature of the daylight or sunlight CF
lamps, which are typically over 6000K. My eyes adapt to the light
very well, although I rarely use direct lighting.. most of my CFLs
are pointed upward for bounce lighting.

The majority of incandescents give off a red light, and I've read
that up to 90% of the output from incancescent lights is in the
infrared region.

**95% ~ 98% is far closer to reality. Halogens are somewhat more efficient.

For folks that experience cold weather for half of
the year, the infrared adds to their comfort.

**So do heat pumps, which are vastly more efficient.

Who makes 100 watt heat pumps, that will work at -40°?


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

**I do. I keep track of the life of my lamps. Incandescents don't last long.

There are some in the US that have been on 24/7 for decades, and
still work. Some are over 100 years old. Cheap bulbs don't last, and
neither do those that are used improperly.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Sylvia Else wrote:

Has anyone here tried retrofitting low ESR capacitors to CFLs with a
view to improving their turn-on performance - i.e. so that they reach
full brightness quickly?

It won't make any difference but if the capacitors are failing, use
105° or 125° replacements for longer life.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

 

[Jim Yanik]

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in
news:HTaeq.812$Jq5.256@newsfe02.ams2:

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:9drjkhF3v3U1@mid.individual.net...
On 20/09/2011 1:11 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Has anyone here tried retrofitting low ESR capacitors to CFLs with
a view to improving their turn-on performance - i.e. so that they
reach full brightness quickly?

Sylvia.

**The full brightness thing is not associated with the electronics.
It's an
issue with the gas in the tube and, to a lesser extent, the phosphor
coating. You can prove this for yourself, by measuring the light
output of a
standard (iron ballast) fluoro. Light output gradually increases
over a few
seconds (or minutes, depending on ambient temperature).

Don't sweat it anyway, LEDs will replace them in most applications
very soon. I've been mucking about with a couple of these recently:

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/12w-3500k-800lm-warm-white-led-emitter-m
etal-strip-12-14v-80310

It delivers almost double the light output of an 11 Watt T5 fluoro
and is far more compact, dimmable and has nicer colour temperature.


Having got used to the higher colour temperatures of CFLs, I find
that I prefer them.

Incandescents weren't given a lower colour temperature because people
preferred them, it was just the way they came out. If the first
practical domestic electric lights had been of daylight colour
temperature, I imagine that's what everyone would always have wanted,
and people would have given short shrift to this yellow rubbish.

However, I note that the led emitter strips are available in higher
colour temperatures.

Sylvia.



I was given to understand that the colour of an incandescent bulb is
what humans are comfortable with, because it closely matches the
colour and spectrum of our sun. As I have said on here before, I for
one, am not comfortable with the light quality from CFLs, no matter
what variety or supposed colour temperature they are. I fully accept
that this might be to do with my eyes or brain or whatever, and that
others don't feel that they have the problem, but by the same token, I
know many other people - particularly over 50's like myself - that
have the same difficulty with them. Thus far, I have not been that
impressed with the spectrum or light quality from LEDs in a domestic
setting either, but this technology is currently moving and improving
fast, so I'll keep an open mind on that at the moment.

Arfa

incandescent lamps color temps do NOT match that of the sun;
"daylight" CT is around 6500K,while incandescents are around 3000K.
Daylight is much "whiter" than incandescent light.

what makes fluorescent lamps yucky is their excess and spiky blue-green and
low red output,but newer CFLs have adjusted their phosphor mix to give a
better spectrum,and you can buy them in diffect CTs like 2700K,3200K,and
even higher.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

 

[Jim Yanik]

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in
news:bfbeq.813$Jq5.386@newsfe02.ams2:

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:9dse5pFcrmU1@mid.individual.net...
the following:


snip

* LEDs use a miniscule amount of silicon.
* Incandescent lamps use a very large amount of silicon

Whereabouts ?

Arfa

the glass envelope.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

 

[Ian Field]

"Jeff Urban" <jurb6006@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:354e66f2-fad2-44d6-8330-d5d05376cb13@f8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...

The low brighness when cold is not due to low PS voltages or current,
it is due to the fact that it takes time for the gas to get it up
completely.

Many years ago when CFLs were expensive enough to be worth attempting
repair, I had a batch with electro' failure being the most common cause.

The part in question being 4u7 400V which I didn't have any in stock (not
small enough to fit anyway) so as an experiment I superglued 5x 1uF X2
capacitors round the outside and wired them in - can't get much lower ESR
than that.

There was no noticeable improvement in the lamp's behaviour, other than it
lasted almost the claimed life expectancy before the tube gave out.

 

[Ian Field]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:9drdrjFiuvU1@mid.individual.net...

"larry moe 'n curly"

Another problem is opening up the CFL to get to the circuit board and
reattaching the cover because regular glues don't work, and you want a
strong bond that won't fail at high temperature.


** Most CFLs use no glue at all, the halves snap fit together.

Silicone adhesive ( eg Silastic) will handle the case temp easily -

can be

used to secure loose glass tubes in the case too.

Last time I looked that's what they stuck 'em in with in the first place.

 

[Ian Field]

This may be of help:

http://www.pavouk.org/hw/lamp/en_index.html

http://www.nxp.com/documents/application_note/AN00048.pdf

http://www.en-genius.net/includes/files/col_081307.pdf