Toshiba TV29C90 problem; Image fades to black...

[Richard Crowley]

"Richard Crowley" wrote ...

"EADGBE" wrote...
I have received a couple of comments here that my cable choice could
be the problem.

Is it actually possible that a cheaper cable could solve the problem?

NO they are joking. Since the same cable carries both the left and
right channels it is impossible that a passive device such as a cable
could reliably distingusih between the left channel data and the right
channel data in the stream.

And here is a question that will really show my level of ignorance
when it comes to digital audio formats: Is it possible that I am using
the wrong kind of digital cable?

NO. It either works or it doesn't. It is as simple as that. People
might argue that if you use really poor cable it might introduce such
digital artifacts as "jitter". But there is no amount of arm-waving
that can explain how it could affect only one channel of the
interleaved data.

The digital output of the CD player
and the digital input on the preamp are both RCA type jacks. I simply
thought that using a digital coaxial cable with RCA plugs on both ends
would be appropriate. Am I wrong? Is there another type of cable I
should use that will fit?

It is NOT the cable. Ignore the frivolity and go back to doing a proper
differential diagnosis with the source and destination equipment.

Note further that SPDIF has been demonstrated to work properly
using a wet string (literally). There is NOTHING magic about the
cable. Despite what Monster and the other rip-off cable shysters
may try to say otherwise.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:h9ydnVng3OevEuXVnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@comcast.com...

The Lady from Philadelphia sez...

Why are you arguing about such an unlikely event when the OP hasn't tested
the unit with another digital source?

Why ! - that's what makes life interesting, of course ...

Arfa

 

[GMAN]

In article <8e661fb3-0fd8-4fe8-b111-781cfca5b380@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, "hr(bob) hofmann@att.net" <hrhofmann@att.net> wrote:

On Jul 11, 2:30=A0pm, Adrian C <em...@here.invalid> wrote:
mw210...@gmail.com wrote:
A classical interference. PAL operates at 25cycles per second, German
power at 50Hz, what does this tell about the interference spectrum/
freq?

If you are using SCART, it's probably the internal tuner output from
your TV crossmodulating with the output from the sender receiver box.
Open up the SCART lead at the TV end and cut pin 19 (composite video
out). Or you may be able to switch this output off in a setup menu.

For a quick check before you do any of this - remove the aerial lead
from the TV. What happens?

--
Adrian C

What about a microwave oven????

Bob Hofmann
I bet you have an XBOX360? Their wireless radio in the box that communicates

with the controllers cuases massive interference within the 2.4ghz range.


What i dont get is why doesnt the FCC get after Microsoft on this one????


http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15821/1103/

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6136388.html

<http://www.joystiq.
com/2007/12/15/strange-xbox-360-signal-might-affect-wireless-lans/>

 

[Dave Platt]

In article <2185hl.7l0.17.1@news.alt.net>,
Meat Plow <meat@petitmorte.net> wrote:

I bet you have an XBOX360? Their wireless radio in the box that
communicates with the controllers cuases massive interference within the
2.4ghz range.

What i dont get is why doesnt the FCC get after Microsoft on this one????

As far as the FCC and wireless gear is concerned you can move the source
of the interferrence. I've read many disclaimers on various wireless
apparatus stating to the effect of that. I imagine it's because of the low
power output that there is no tight regulation.

That's about the size of it. The XBOX360, 802.11 b/g network devices,
and 2.4-gig video senders are all certificated under Part 15 of the
FCC regs. They are not individually licensed.

They all have to comply with certain power output rules.

In terms of sharing spectrum, such devices [1] must not interfere with
licensed users of the spectrum, and [2] must accept interference from
any and all devices, both licensed and unlicensed.

In short, as long as it's properly designed and certificated, an
XBOX360 and its controllers has just as much right to use the 2.4 gig
spectrum as do 802.11 network devices and 2.4-gig video senders. None
of these is protected from interference by any other. It's up to
their owners/users to cooperate in order to alleviate any interference
which does occur.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

 

[Michael Kennedy]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:KY6dnYswJKTTcujVnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@comcast.com...

What are you going to do with it? You could spray a conductive paint
on regular masking tape, for example.

It is going to be used to hold down LCD displays and lithium batteries. I
don't
think regular vinyl tape would suffice without leaving a mess of glue
residue? I
would think conductive paint will be more expensive and an extra step.

At this point in time I will be using the tape doing iPod repairs. I
don't
want
a mess to deal with when I get back into them at a later date.

I'm not sure what anti-static tape _is_, in the first place. (Is it tape
that doesn't generate an electrostatic charge when it's pulled off the
roll?) Nor am I sure what use it would have in the application you
mention.

My initial reaction is that you're looking for something you don't need.

I'd concur with that evaluation.

O.P. Why do you need antistatic tape? You should be able to use some sort of
standard tape. If you are really that concerned with static, use aluminum
tape. It is commonly used in HVAC work (AC/Heating Ducts) and you can find
it at almost any hardware store.

Mike

 

[GMAN]

In article <2185hl.7l0.17.1@news.alt.net>, Meat Plow <meat@petitmorte.net> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:52:33 +0000, GMAN wrote:

In article
8e661fb3-0fd8-4fe8-b111-781cfca5b380@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
"hr(bob) hofmann@att.net" <hrhofmann@att.net> wrote:
On Jul 11, 2:30=A0pm, Adrian C <em...@here.invalid> wrote:
mw210...@gmail.com wrote:
A classical interference. PAL operates at 25cycles per second, German
power at 50Hz, what does this tell about the interference spectrum/
freq?

If you are using SCART, it's probably the internal tuner output from
your TV crossmodulating with the output from the sender receiver box.
Open up the SCART lead at the TV end and cut pin 19 (composite video
out). Or you may be able to switch this output off in a setup menu.

For a quick check before you do any of this - remove the aerial lead
from the TV. What happens?

--
Adrian C

What about a microwave oven????

Bob Hofmann
I bet you have an XBOX360? Their wireless radio in the box that
communicates with the controllers cuases massive interference within the
2.4ghz range.


What i dont get is why doesnt the FCC get after Microsoft on this one????

As far as the FCC and wireless gear is concerned you can move the source
of the interferrence. I've read many disclaimers on various wireless
apparatus stating to the effect of that. I imagine it's because of the low
power output that there is no tight regulation.

Being a class B computing device, it cannot and must not by law cause
interferance with other items.

 

[GMAN]

In article <u56ok5-oq3.ln1@radagast.org>, dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) wrote:

In article <2185hl.7l0.17.1@news.alt.net>,
Meat Plow <meat@petitmorte.net> wrote:

I bet you have an XBOX360? Their wireless radio in the box that
communicates with the controllers cuases massive interference within the
2.4ghz range.

What i dont get is why doesnt the FCC get after Microsoft on this one????

As far as the FCC and wireless gear is concerned you can move the source
of the interferrence. I've read many disclaimers on various wireless
apparatus stating to the effect of that. I imagine it's because of the low
power output that there is no tight regulation.

That's about the size of it. The XBOX360, 802.11 b/g network devices,
and 2.4-gig video senders are all certificated under Part 15 of the
FCC regs. They are not individually licensed.

They all have to comply with certain power output rules.

In terms of sharing spectrum, such devices [1] must not interfere with
licensed users of the spectrum, and [2] must accept interference from
any and all devices, both licensed and unlicensed.

In short, as long as it's properly designed and certificated, an
XBOX360 and its controllers has just as much right to use the 2.4 gig
spectrum as do 802.11 network devices and 2.4-gig video senders. None
of these is protected from interference by any other. It's up to
their owners/users to cooperate in order to alleviate any interference
which does occur.

But the 360 cannot shit all over every bit of that 2.4ghz spectrum!!!!

Also if there is a ham radio operator nearby and he gets interference on his
gear from your 360 or other device , he has recourse thru the courts and the
FCC to have you not use your device anymore.

 

[GMAN]

In article <3274857e-0963-48b4-8154-aba6910f6951@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, "mw210461@gmail.com" <mw210461@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12 Jul., 20:52, glenz...@xmission.com (GMAN) wrote:
In article
8e661fb3-0fd8-4fe8-b111-781cfca5b...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, "hr(bob)
hofm...@att.net" <hrhofm...@att.net> wrote:



On Jul 11, 2:30=A0pm, Adrian C <em...@here.invalid> wrote:
mw210...@gmail.com wrote:
A classical interference. PAL operates at 25cycles per second, German
power at 50Hz, what does this tell about the interference spectrum/
freq?

If you are using SCART, it's probably the internal tuner output from
your TV crossmodulating with the output from the sender receiver box.
Open up the SCART lead at the TV end and cut pin 19 (composite video
out). Or you may be able to switch this output off in a setup menu.

For a quick check before you do any of this - remove the aerial lead
from the TV. What happens?

--
Adrian C

What about a microwave oven????

Bob Hofmann

I bet you have an XBOX360? Their wireless radio in the box that communicates
with the controllers cuases massive interference within the2.4ghzrange.

What i dont get is why doesnt the FCC get after Microsoft on this one????

http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15821/1103/

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6136388.html

http://www.joystiq.
com/2007/12/15/strange-xbox-360-signal-might-affect-wireless-lans/>-
Zitierten Text ausblenden -

- Zitierten Text anzeigen -

Actually I DO NOT have an XBOX 8-( - and I don't miss it
And remember that I unplugged all devices and also pulled breakers
where needed? I literally sat in the dark with only the TV sets, Sat
receiver and xmitter working.

But I DO have success, sort of:
the transmitter allows to select 4 different broadcast channels, and
in one (D, the highest?) I noticed that the wide speckled and running
bar disappeared. It was replaced by 2 very narrow and absolutely
static ones! That was actually good news, as it was a DIFFERENT
interference, one I quickly identified as being from my own wireless
base station, located in the same room as the 2.4GHz receiver. That
one can be unplugged anytime; also I am considering to disable/cut the
transmitter or antenna - the base is not actively used, it only serves
as a charger for one cordless phone. It produces a very sharp, whitish
bar, in synch with the receiver for some reason (overtone or fraction
of the xmit frequency I suppose?), no audio interference noticable.
I am quite convinced that the other broad noise is indeed from a
neighbor's WiFi/WLAN system. What is baffling is that the plentitude
of my own wireless devices (with the exception of the one phone base
in the same room) have absolutely no impact on the xmitter/receiver
signal, and this bastard HAS, from 100ft away, through several 1foot
mason walls.
Anyways - thanks for the ideas, hints and suggestions, highly
appreciated!
michael


Do you live close to a microwave tower or amateur radio operator?

 

[Chronic Philharmonic]

"Kendra Weissbein" <kweissbein@lvhcc.com> wrote in message
news:g58uca$pb4$1@aioe.org...

"geoff" <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote in message
news:9oOdnZ9aYIXwEOvVnZ2dnUVZ_oLinZ2d@giganews.com...
EADGBE wrote:
I have a Yamaha CX-1000 preamp and I just acquired a used Yamaha CD
player that has a digital output (CDX-710).

The CX-1000 preamp has digital inputs on it. Even though this CD
player sounds fine through the analog outputs, I wanted to hear what
the digital output sounded like.

I used a Monster Cable Datalink SP/DIF cable I had lying around to
connect the two.

PROBLEM: I get perfect audio through the left channel, but nothing at
all in the right channel. Needless to say, the CD player sounds great
in BOTH left & right channels when I use its analog outputs.

What could the problem be?

The problem is a fault in the sending device, or the receiving device.


geoff


So which is it holmes? The Sending Device of the Receiving Device?

The sending device might be coding the datastream as a mono feed, or the
receiving device is failing to decode the datastream as a stereo feed. It
might be something as simple as a configuration problem (one of the devices
is set to 'mono'). To diagnose a fault, use a protocol analyzer, or a
process of elimination by substituting components until you get something
that works.

 

[Charlie Bress]

"Caesar Valenti" <caesarv@email.com> wrote in message
news:487a464f$0$17191$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...

The cells are 2.2 colts each so do the math.
Cool....how many colts = one horse? If I assume about 3 colts = 1 horse,
then the battery should supply about 2 horsepower or about 1500 watts.
But for how long? .... lets see.....1500 watt drain (125 amp) on a 65AH
battery is about 30 minutes.

Seems to me your just horsing around.

(sorry, the devil made me say that)

 

[William Sommerwerck]

The sending device might be coding the datastream as a mono feed...

There is no such thing, in consumer products, as a mono SPDIF feed. Indeed,
one of the design errors of the Compact Disc is the failure to include a
mono mode that would double disk capacity for pre-stereo recordings.

or the receiving device is failing to decode the datastream as a stereo
feed.

Which makes no sense, as it's hard-wired to divvy up the signal into left
and right.

 

[Richard Crowley]

"William Sommerwerck" wrote ...

The sending device might be coding the datastream as a mono feed...

There is no such thing, in consumer products, as a mono SPDIF feed.
Indeed,
one of the design errors of the Compact Disc is the failure to include a
mono mode that would double disk capacity for pre-stereo recordings.

or the receiving device is failing to decode the datastream as a stereo
feed.

Which makes no sense, as it's hard-wired to divvy up the signal into left
and right.

My money is on the receiver signal path beyond the decoder.
There are lots of places for just one channel to get lost.

 

[Allodoxaphobia]

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:28:30 -0400, Charlie Bress wrote:

"Caesar Valenti" <caesarv@email.com> wrote:

The cells are 2.2 colts each so do the math.
Cool....how many colts = one horse? If I assume about 3 colts = 1 horse,
then the battery should supply about 2 horsepower or about 1500 watts.
But for how long? .... lets see.....1500 watt drain (125 amp) on a 65AH
battery is about 30 minutes.

Seems to me your just horsing around.

Just colt not resist, I see.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

My money is on the receiver signal path beyond the decoder.
There are lots of places for just one channel to get lost.

Which is what's happening. It just isn't happening in the original digital
stream.

 

[Arny Krueger]

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:yE_dk.146468$ft1.133842@newsfe14.ams2

Unlikely or not, there is the remote possibility that
this could be the one for that fault ... I don't know if
the PCM data stream coming off the disc is decoded and
processed first,

The data comes off the CD disc with the data interleaved. Physical data
blocks are 2352 bytes each, of which 2048 bytes are audio data. The 2048
bytes make up 1024 16 bit samples, 512 for each channel. The remaining data
is for error checking and correction.

or whether it is directly transcoded
into SPdif (or indeed, whether SPdif is just PCM under
another name - I've never bothered to check because it's
very rare to get *any* fault in this area). If there is
any decoding going on, then just maybe, a channel *could*
be lost.

Most consumer audio gear and a lot of professional gear use DAC chips with
either 2 channels or pairs of channels. In either case the input data stream
for each pair of DACs have the data for the 2 channels interleaved.

 

[Arny Krueger]

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:48789E8D.A9366E20@hotmail.com

Gareth Magennis wrote:

"Mike S" <nospam> wrote

The problem is a fault in the sending device, or the
receiving device.

That narrows down the possibilities! At least he knows
it's not the cable (obviously)

Could someone please explain how it could be possible to
lose one channel of the digital stream out of the CD
player, considering that the CD's audio output is
perfectly OK.

Seems completely impossible, because the data for the 2 channels are always
interleaved. Each physical data block is composed of 1024 audio samples, 512
for each channel, and a separate block of data for error detection and
correction. Typically, the channel data is never de-interleaved.

Failure to sync to the second block of audio data ? Bad
clocks ?

Either situation will result in no audio data being recovered, just noise.

 

[Gareth Magennis]

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:LZOdnSVCpeKbHOfVnZ2dnUVZ_tvinZ2d@comcast.com...

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:48789E8D.A9366E20@hotmail.com
Gareth Magennis wrote:

"Mike S" <nospam> wrote

The problem is a fault in the sending device, or the
receiving device.

That narrows down the possibilities! At least he knows
it's not the cable (obviously)

Could someone please explain how it could be possible to
lose one channel of the digital stream out of the CD
player, considering that the CD's audio output is
perfectly OK.

Seems completely impossible, because the data for the 2 channels are
always interleaved. Each physical data block is composed of 1024 audio
samples, 512 for each channel, and a separate block of data for error
detection and correction. Typically, the channel data is never
de-interleaved.

Failure to sync to the second block of audio data ? Bad
clocks ?

Either situation will result in no audio data being recovered, just noise.

Phew, after all that speculation we finally got some technical insight.

Thanks.

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Gareth Magennis" wrote ...

Phew, after all that speculation we finally got some technical insight.

Didn't realize anyone was suffering from the delusion of any other cause.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Chronic Philharmonic" <karl.uppiano@verizon.net> wrote in message
newsDrek.137$6O4.0@trnddc06...

"Kendra Weissbein" <kweissbein@lvhcc.com> wrote in message
news:g58uca$pb4$1@aioe.org...

"geoff" <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote in message
news:9oOdnZ9aYIXwEOvVnZ2dnUVZ_oLinZ2d@giganews.com...
EADGBE wrote:
I have a Yamaha CX-1000 preamp and I just acquired a used Yamaha CD
player that has a digital output (CDX-710).

The CX-1000 preamp has digital inputs on it. Even though this CD
player sounds fine through the analog outputs, I wanted to hear what
the digital output sounded like.

I used a Monster Cable Datalink SP/DIF cable I had lying around to
connect the two.

PROBLEM: I get perfect audio through the left channel, but nothing at
all in the right channel. Needless to say, the CD player sounds great
in BOTH left & right channels when I use its analog outputs.

What could the problem be?

The problem is a fault in the sending device, or the receiving device.


geoff


So which is it holmes? The Sending Device of the Receiving Device?

The sending device might be coding the datastream as a mono feed, or the
receiving device is failing to decode the datastream as a stereo feed. It
might be something as simple as a configuration problem (one of the
devices is set to 'mono'). To diagnose a fault, use a protocol analyzer,
or a process of elimination by substituting components until you get
something that works.

Even if it were, that would not result in the loss of one physical channel's
reproduction from the amp. What you would have is both left and right
channels combined into one single mono channel, which would then be
identically coded onto both left and right channels, within the single
SP/dif data stream. So you would get two channels physically reproduced, but
each containing the same mono audio.

Arfa

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Arfa Daily" wrote ...

"Chronic Philharmonic" wrote ...
The sending device might be coding the datastream as a mono feed, or the
receiving device is failing to decode the datastream as a stereo feed. It
might be something as simple as a configuration problem (one of the
devices is set to 'mono'). To diagnose a fault, use a protocol analyzer,
or a process of elimination by substituting components until you get
something that works.

Even if it were, that would not result in the loss of one physical
channel's reproduction from the amp. What you would have is both left and
right channels combined into one single mono channel, which would then be
identically coded onto both left and right channels, within the single
SP/dif data stream. So you would get two channels physically reproduced,
but each containing the same mono audio.

But only a fantasy academic discussion as there is no monaural mode
defined for SPDIF.