Toshiba TV29C90 problem; Image fades to black...

[Donna Ohl, Grady Voluntee]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:55:41 -0800 (PST), N8N wrote:

I have yet to see a drain valve for a water heater that didn't screw
into the tank with a 3/4" pipe thread. I imagine the Sears rep just
told you it wasn't replaceable to keep you from messing with it.

Or he didn't know and he was just hazarding a guess disguised as fact.\
This reference says they can be replaced with a ball valve.
http://www.high-performance-hvac.com/heating/hot-water-heaters/hot-water-heater-maintenance-tips.html

Q6: How much space should be left between the walls and the heater?
Your installation instructions should have that info.

THey say six inches but the old one was less than half that.

 

[Donna Ohl, Grady Voluntee]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:55:41 -0800 (PST), N8N wrote:

I think it needs to be *at least* 6 inches above the floor, you don't
want it to be too high though in case you are in the room when it goes
off. I assume you have a floor drain in this room?

Hi Nate,
It's a garage that drains down the driveway.

This reference also says "at least" six inches off the floor.
http://www.high-performance-hvac.com/heating/hot-water-heaters/hot-water-heater-maintenance-tips.html

This one says "within" six inches of the floor:
http://www.friendlyplumber.com/plumbing101/hot_water_heater.html

I'm going to tell Bill to decide to put it at the 18 inch mark above the
elevated step; otherwise it would need a horizontal length which would be
bad.

Thanks,
Donna

 

[N8N]

On Feb 18, 11:55 am, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
<donna....@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:26:44 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:
I can't believe this thread is still going after what three weeks?

Hi Meat Plow,

There are more questions now, after having done the job, than there were in
the beginning, even though I read a dozen how to's, I posted my
step-by-step guide, I read a half-dozen PDFs on specifications, etc.

It seems all the required information is not in any one place (yet).

For example, unanswered questions which remain are:

Q1: Can we terminate the drain pipe above the wooden base (easier) or must
we terminate (how many) inches above the cement floor (necessitating a
short elbowed horizontal run)?http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2274211119/

I think it needs to be *at least* 6 inches above the floor, you don't
want it to be too high though in case you are in the room when it goes
off. I assume you have a floor drain in this room?

Q2: Is it a code requirement to replace the incoming yellow gas lines?http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273276741/

I believe every WH manufacturer recommends replacing the flex line if
the heater is replaced (that is if a flex line is used.)

Q3: Since the old drain valve (predictably) snapped in half (causing most
of the installation problems we saw),http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262535/
and since Sears personnel said the drain valve can not be removed, do you
really remove and replace the new drain valve with a brass one (we opted
not because the store said it was unremovable)?http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262545/

I would. Can you at least look and see if the valve looks like it is
a standard 3/4" pipe thread? If so I'd replace it. Like I mentioned
earlier, I just used a 3/4" dielectric nipple, a 3/4" NPT ball valve,
a 3/4" male NPT to male garden hose adapter, and a brass garden hose
cap to make my own drain valves (I actually have three water heaters
on my property, two in the house and one in the garage...)

I have yet to see a drain valve for a water heater that didn't screw
into the tank with a 3/4" pipe thread. I imagine the Sears rep just
told you it wasn't replaceable to keep you from messing with it.

Q5: How *tight* should the earthquake straps be (the originals were loose)?http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273250269/

don't know, they apparently aren't required anywhere I've lived.

Q6: How much space should be left between the walls and the heater?http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2275029488/

Your installation instructions should have that info.

Q7: Must we use a sheet-metal screw or is hand tight (it's very tight) good
enough for the vent flue?http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2274085488/

I'd screw it together, at least two screws per joint. Before you do
that though, check with a match to make sure it's drafting properly -
light a match and hold it in the gap between the top of the water
heater and the flue vent while the heater is burning. The flame
should go straight up or slightly in towards the center of the vent -
NEVER away from the center of the vent. If it does it is backdrafting
and whatever condition is causing that needs to be corrected.

good luck

nate

 

[N Cook]

<tonym924@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0d292581-9b91-4c8b-b7f0-4457bb379d27@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com...

On Mar 3, 3:25 am, francesco.messi...@gmail.com wrote:
On 2 Mar, 22:23, "N Cook" <diver...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
If 1995 unlikely Ge 2N1215
Could it be a Russian Cyrillic "N" ?
Definitely low power transistor casing ? eg < 1A

definitely low power, looks like japanese, all other components in the
car radio are japanese.
Might be a RN1215 but I wasn't able to find a datasheet to confirm.

How about a UN1215? It has an internal 10K base resistor.
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/3535073.pdf

TM

Thats presumably the one.
Now does Panasonic/Matsushita use the dot code for other dropped letters on
SMD/small items, say MN.... ?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

cuhulin@webtv.net writes:

I bought a new General Electric refrigerator about ten years ago.Now the
area below the freezer area doesn't cool down like it should.Would that
be caused by a faulty switch? I think the compressor and fan and grill,
all of that stuff, is located below on the bottom of the refrigerator.
cuhulin

It could be a number of things including a faulty thermostat (switch),
but first clean the coils underneath. If they are plugged with dust,
the condensor won't be able to dissipate the waste heat properly.
If that's OK, check that the defrost timer is working.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

 

On Dec 4, 6:11 pm, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

rasmus.bonne...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:79f24abe-ef6e-496e-84d0-4f4d85beab25@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

It seems to me that the output stage is broken. How could I proceed if
I don't find the service manual?


Before doing anything else, check the rear panel for a set of loop thru'
connectors for going out to a sound processor of some description. They are
usually 4 x RCA phono type sockets, and may be marked either "Processor" or
"Pre out - Main in" or something very similar. There is often a thick bar
silk-screened between them to indicate that they should be linked. Very
often, an amplifier will arrive on the bench with exactly the symptoms you
describe, and the original factory-fitted linking bars missing. Usually, the
person is a 'new' owner who has picked the item up second hand, and doesn't
realise that the sockets need to be linked. If you find it to be the case on
this one, all you need is a short stereo RCA to RCA lead, to patch them back
together.

Arfa

Thank you for your quick reply.

Your guess was indeed spot on. It works very well now

Now there is two smaller problems. First the balance controller is
noisy. I'm going to try to clean/replace/bypass it. The phono input,
however, gives a large amount of noise out even with volume turned way
down and nothing connected to the input. I guess this means that the
phono preamp is broken. Would just disconnecting the preamp circuit be
a reasonable course of action?

Thanks again for the quick and precise answer. It saved me a lot of
time!

/Rasmus

 

[N Cook]

<rasmus.bonnedal@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:861b1407-9f45-4a04-9fb5-82c8c4a0f193@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...

On Dec 4, 6:11 pm, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
rasmus.bonne...@gmail.com> wrote in message


news:79f24abe-ef6e-496e-84d0-4f4d85beab25@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

It seems to me that the output stage is broken. How could I proceed if
I don't find the service manual?


Before doing anything else, check the rear panel for a set of loop thru'
connectors for going out to a sound processor of some description. They
are
usually 4 x RCA phono type sockets, and may be marked either "Processor"
or
"Pre out - Main in" or something very similar. There is often a thick
bar
silk-screened between them to indicate that they should be linked. Very
often, an amplifier will arrive on the bench with exactly the symptoms
you
describe, and the original factory-fitted linking bars missing. Usually,
the
person is a 'new' owner who has picked the item up second hand, and
doesn't
realise that the sockets need to be linked. If you find it to be the
case on
this one, all you need is a short stereo RCA to RCA lead, to patch them
back
together.

Arfa

Thank you for your quick reply.

Your guess was indeed spot on. It works very well now

Now there is two smaller problems. First the balance controller is
noisy. I'm going to try to clean/replace/bypass it. The phono input,
however, gives a large amount of noise out even with volume turned way
down and nothing connected to the input. I guess this means that the
phono preamp is broken. Would just disconnecting the preamp circuit be
a reasonable course of action?

Thanks again for the quick and precise answer. It saved me a lot of
time!

/Rasmus

Shorting plugs added to unused inputs ?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

 

[Arfa Daily]

<rasmus.bonnedal@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:861b1407-9f45-4a04-9fb5-82c8c4a0f193@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...

On Dec 4, 6:11 pm, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
rasmus.bonne...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:79f24abe-ef6e-496e-84d0-4f4d85beab25@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

It seems to me that the output stage is broken. How could I proceed if
I don't find the service manual?


Before doing anything else, check the rear panel for a set of loop thru'
connectors for going out to a sound processor of some description. They
are
usually 4 x RCA phono type sockets, and may be marked either "Processor"
or
"Pre out - Main in" or something very similar. There is often a thick bar
silk-screened between them to indicate that they should be linked. Very
often, an amplifier will arrive on the bench with exactly the symptoms
you
describe, and the original factory-fitted linking bars missing. Usually,
the
person is a 'new' owner who has picked the item up second hand, and
doesn't
realise that the sockets need to be linked. If you find it to be the case
on
this one, all you need is a short stereo RCA to RCA lead, to patch them
back
together.

Arfa

Thank you for your quick reply.

Your guess was indeed spot on. It works very well now

Now there is two smaller problems. First the balance controller is
noisy. I'm going to try to clean/replace/bypass it. The phono input,
however, gives a large amount of noise out even with volume turned way
down and nothing connected to the input. I guess this means that the
phono preamp is broken. Would just disconnecting the preamp circuit be
a reasonable course of action?

Thanks again for the quick and precise answer. It saved me a lot of
time!

/Rasmus

If you're not intending using it, it might be. Is the noise on both
channels, and is it controlled by the volume control at all ? Can you get
the noise to completely disappear, with the volume right down ? Bear in mind
that phono preamps do generate considerably more 'hiss' than the other
inputs, due to a very high gain stage being switched in ahead of the main
preamp, when "phono" is selected.

As far as cleaning pots and switches goes, these older units usually respond
quite well to a squib of good quality switch cleaner / lubricant. Make sure
that you find a hole in the pot casing that you can get plenty of juice
into, then scrub the control by rotating vigourously from end to end, for at
least 10 seconds.

Arfa

 

On Dec 5, 4:02 pm, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

rasmus.bonne...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:861b1407-9f45-4a04-9fb5-82c8c4a0f193@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...



On Dec 4, 6:11 pm, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
rasmus.bonne...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:79f24abe-ef6e-496e-84d0-4f4d85beab25@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

It seems to me that the output stage is broken. How could I proceed if
I don't find the service manual?

Before doing anything else, check the rear panel for a set of loop thru'
connectors for going out to a sound processor of some description. They
are
usually 4 x RCA phono type sockets, and may be marked either "Processor"
or
"Pre out - Main in" or something very similar. There is often a thick bar
silk-screened between them to indicate that they should be linked. Very
often, an amplifier will arrive on the bench with exactly the symptoms
you
describe, and the original factory-fitted linking bars missing. Usually,
the
person is a 'new' owner who has picked the item up second hand, and
doesn't
realise that the sockets need to be linked. If you find it to be the case
on
this one, all you need is a short stereo RCA to RCA lead, to patch them
back
together.

Arfa

Thank you for your quick reply.

Your guess was indeed spot on. It works very well now

Now there is two smaller problems. First the balance controller is
noisy. I'm going to try to clean/replace/bypass it. The phono input,
however, gives a large amount of noise out even with volume turned way
down and nothing connected to the input. I guess this means that the
phono preamp is broken. Would just disconnecting the preamp circuit be
a reasonable course of action?

Thanks again for the quick and precise answer. It saved me a lot of
time!

/Rasmus

If you're not intending using it, it might be. Is the noise on both
channels, and is it controlled by the volume control at all ? Can you get
the noise to completely disappear, with the volume right down ? Bear in mind
that phono preamps do generate considerably more 'hiss' than the other
inputs, due to a very high gain stage being switched in ahead of the main
preamp, when "phono" is selected.

As far as cleaning pots and switches goes, these older units usually respond
quite well to a squib of good quality switch cleaner / lubricant. Make sure
that you find a hole in the pot casing that you can get plenty of juice
into, then scrub the control by rotating vigourously from end to end, for at
least 10 seconds.

Arfa

Thanks for the advice on cleaning pots!

The noise on the phono is present on both channel and affected by
volume. However, it is disturbingly high even with volume turned all
the way down. It also does not sound like a high noise floor, but
rather more like an uneven rumble.

/Rasmus

 

[radiosrfun]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:478586A0.35A381AE@earthlink.net...

radiosrfun wrote:

Mike, with all due respect to your opinion - with all the money I've
thrown
away in my life time for foolishness - I'd gladly pay for the bullets to
rid
the world of those assholes. Now "that" would be an "investment".


That's just like you! If you shoot them we can't watch them running
for their lives, from wild, feral hogs. If they can't eat pork and make
it to their 'heaven', what happens if the hogs eat them?

Eh, in short? Who gives a shit? That is what they are - and if eaten - would
be - anyway! Some things just never change.

 

[N8N]

On Feb 18, 11:58 am, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
<donna....@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:26:18 GMT, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
3  That plug would not come out either after years of use

Hi Edwin,

Good point! It's almost impossible to remove the sacrificial anode!http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2274085498/

If you try to remove it next year, you should be able to do it
easily. It might be a two person job, but even on my 20-year old old
water heater I could do it. I did need an appropriately sized socket
(I think 1-1/16" or 1-1/8"? I forget) a heavy 3/4" drive breaker bar
and a 36" long "cheater pipe," but it came out. The second person is
to hold the tank while you're reefing on it, and it helps to leave the
tank mostly full of water to add weight (but make sure that the water
is below the level of the T&P valve, so it doesn't shoot out when you
finally remove the anode.) I did have some concerns about cracking
the bung off the tank, but I figured it was one of those things, if it
broke it needed to be replaced anyway. I got lucky and it didn't. A
new tank should not have this issue.

Putting some pipe dope or pipe tape on the anode's threads will help
keep it from corroding so between that and R&Ring it every year it
shouldn't be a major issue. The dope/tape will not cause any problems
with nonconductivity, enough of the threads will bite through the dope/
tape to provide a solid electrical connection.

Another question we had was whether or not to buy a new anode TODAY so that
we'd have it in stock.

Is it hard to find a new anode for any particular water heater, years after
it's built?

Nope, there are only a couple basic styles. I wouldn't worry about it
until it shows signs of getting close to the wire.

I would guess the length is all that really matters (shorter than the tank)
and not necessarily the specific model of the water heater per se.http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2274079124/

Do most people just buy a replacement anode by length?http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273991351/

Donna

yes. There are two considerations - whether you have a hex head or
combo style anode and whether or not you have restricted overhead
space. If you have enough room to pull the anode completely out
without bending it you can use a standard one. If you don't you will
need to buy a slightly more expensive segmented one (basically just a
standard anode turned down every foot or so to allow it to be bent and
straightened) I bought mine from waterheaterrescue.com simply because
the only other source I could find for magnesium replacement anodes
was direct from Rheem and WHR had a better price.

nate

 

[William Sommerwerck]

The noise on the phono is present on both channel and affected by
volume. However, it is disturbingly high even with volume turned all
the way down. It also does not sound like a high noise floor, but
rather more like an uneven rumble.

That suggests bad transistors in the phono section. But that isn't your
basic problem, is it?

 

[Arfa Daily]

<rasmus.bonnedal@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0f416dca-df21-41a2-8f40-9b1cc2f11493@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...

On Dec 5, 4:02 pm, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
rasmus.bonne...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:861b1407-9f45-4a04-9fb5-82c8c4a0f193@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...



On Dec 4, 6:11 pm, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
rasmus.bonne...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:79f24abe-ef6e-496e-84d0-4f4d85beab25@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

It seems to me that the output stage is broken. How could I proceed
if
I don't find the service manual?

Before doing anything else, check the rear panel for a set of loop
thru'
connectors for going out to a sound processor of some description.
They
are
usually 4 x RCA phono type sockets, and may be marked either
"Processor"
or
"Pre out - Main in" or something very similar. There is often a thick
bar
silk-screened between them to indicate that they should be linked.
Very
often, an amplifier will arrive on the bench with exactly the symptoms
you
describe, and the original factory-fitted linking bars missing.
Usually,
the
person is a 'new' owner who has picked the item up second hand, and
doesn't
realise that the sockets need to be linked. If you find it to be the
case
on
this one, all you need is a short stereo RCA to RCA lead, to patch
them
back
together.

Arfa

Thank you for your quick reply.

Your guess was indeed spot on. It works very well now

Now there is two smaller problems. First the balance controller is
noisy. I'm going to try to clean/replace/bypass it. The phono input,
however, gives a large amount of noise out even with volume turned way
down and nothing connected to the input. I guess this means that the
phono preamp is broken. Would just disconnecting the preamp circuit be
a reasonable course of action?

Thanks again for the quick and precise answer. It saved me a lot of
time!

/Rasmus

If you're not intending using it, it might be. Is the noise on both
channels, and is it controlled by the volume control at all ? Can you get
the noise to completely disappear, with the volume right down ? Bear in
mind
that phono preamps do generate considerably more 'hiss' than the other
inputs, due to a very high gain stage being switched in ahead of the main
preamp, when "phono" is selected.

As far as cleaning pots and switches goes, these older units usually
respond
quite well to a squib of good quality switch cleaner / lubricant. Make
sure
that you find a hole in the pot casing that you can get plenty of juice
into, then scrub the control by rotating vigourously from end to end, for
at
least 10 seconds.

Arfa

Thanks for the advice on cleaning pots!

The noise on the phono is present on both channel and affected by
volume. However, it is disturbingly high even with volume turned all
the way down. It also does not sound like a high noise floor, but
rather more like an uneven rumble.

/Rasmus

That is a confusing set of symptoms. Because the volume control affects the
noise, that must mean that it is getting in *before* the volume control, so
the control *should*, in theory, be able to turn the noise all the way down.
If it is only present when the phono preamp is switched in, then again, that
would suggest that it is getting in back at the preamp, so again, it should
be able to be completely turned down by the volume control. If it was a
'normal' problem, such as a noisy transistor or cap, or even resistor, you
would only expect the problem to be on one channel.

About the only scenario that I can come up with, which might cover all
bases, is if it is a power supply problem. If power to the phono preamp is
switched, as part of bringing that function on line, then it's possible that
something in the phono preamp circuitry, is putting noise onto that supply
line, which may also be used by later stages. If this is the case, then the
phono preamp will output corresponding noise into the rest of the amplifier
chain, which will be the component of your noise that *is* controlled by the
volume control, and also, the noise on the supply rail will cause noise to
come out of later stages as well, which will be your noise component that is
*not* controllable by the volume control. A supply rail problem would also
account for the noise being on both channels.

As a first move, I would try disconnecting the supply rail to the phono
stage. If that stops it, and you're happy with that, then just leave it. If
you want to try to get a fix, I would be looking at rail decoupling caps,
and transistors.

Arfa

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:RBE5j.489$eU4.412@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...

About the only scenario that I can come up with, which might cover all
bases, is if it is a power supply problem. If power to the phono preamp is
switched, as part of bringing that function on line, then it's possible
that
something in the phono preamp circuitry, is putting noise onto that supply
line, which may also be used by later stages. If this is the case, then
the
phono preamp will output corresponding noise into the rest of the
amplifier
chain, which will be the component of your noise that *is* controlled by
the
volume control, and also, the noise on the supply rail will cause noise to
come out of later stages as well, which will be your noise component that
is
*not* controllable by the volume control. A supply rail problem would also
account for the noise being on both channels.

As a first move, I would try disconnecting the supply rail to the phono
stage. If that stops it, and you're happy with that, then just leave it.
If
you want to try to get a fix, I would be looking at rail decoupling caps,
and transistors.

This is testable without disconnecting the supply rail. Switch the scope to
AC, and look at the rails while listening to the amp.

 

[Meat Plow]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:26:18 +0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" <donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message

Can anyone really expect to remove the anode when it needs inspection?
Why don't they provide TWO HOLES so you can add a second anode when
needed?

! Cost
2 How would you know if a new one is needed if you cant get the first one
out?
3 That plug would not come out either after years of use

I can't believe this thread is still going after what three weeks?

 

[Arfa Daily]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:xfidnS0t7tHggcranZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@comcast.com...

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:RBE5j.489$eU4.412@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...

About the only scenario that I can come up with, which might cover all
bases, is if it is a power supply problem. If power to the phono preamp
is
switched, as part of bringing that function on line, then it's possible
that
something in the phono preamp circuitry, is putting noise onto that
supply
line, which may also be used by later stages. If this is the case, then
the
phono preamp will output corresponding noise into the rest of the
amplifier
chain, which will be the component of your noise that *is* controlled by
the
volume control, and also, the noise on the supply rail will cause noise
to
come out of later stages as well, which will be your noise component that
is
*not* controllable by the volume control. A supply rail problem would
also
account for the noise being on both channels.

As a first move, I would try disconnecting the supply rail to the phono
stage. If that stops it, and you're happy with that, then just leave it.
If
you want to try to get a fix, I would be looking at rail decoupling caps,
and transistors.

This is testable without disconnecting the supply rail. Switch the scope
to
AC, and look at the rails while listening to the amp.

This is quite true, but assumes that he has a 'scope, and knows what to be
looking for ...

I went down the route of suggesting just disconnecting the supply to the
phono preamp, because he had implied that he was not particularly interested
in phono functionality, just in stopping the noise. A 'sledgehammer' fix if
you will.

Arfa

 

[Donna Ohl, Grady Voluntee]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:26:18 GMT, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

3 That plug would not come out either after years of use

Hi Edwin,

Good point! It's almost impossible to remove the sacrificial anode!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2274085498/

Another question we had was whether or not to buy a new anode TODAY so that
we'd have it in stock.

Is it hard to find a new anode for any particular water heater, years after
it's built?

I would guess the length is all that really matters (shorter than the tank)
and not necessarily the specific model of the water heater per se.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2274079124/

Do most people just buy a replacement anode by length?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273991351/

Donna

 

[Vic Smith]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:45:12 GMT, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer
Coordinator" <donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 06:54:10 -0800 (PST), hallerb@aol.com wrote:

all your galvanized needs replaced, when corroded that bad soon it
will leak

Hi Hallerb,

It was disgusting how corroded the *inside* of the galvanized pipes were!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273250265/

That's not corrosion. It's mineral scale. Stone, basically.

We had to reuse the 3/4 inch galvanized elbows.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273268515/

Why? Because we just couldn't get them off no matter how much we twisted!

We had to put Jack's stands against the wall just to hold it back.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273268509/

The horizontal pipe kept bending and twisting with every application of
force.

An 18" or 24"pipe wrench taking a bite on that pipe would have

prevented that. You need to see how a plumber does it. Those ells
would come off easily enough. Don't need jackstands, though that was
creative, I must say. Good for you. You have initiative.
BTW, older pipes were sometimes assembled with a hardening dope.
Whacking the joint repeatedly with a hammer usually breaks the bond.

Three questions came up that we'd like to ask:

1. We could easily twist the horizontal galvanized pipe; but how would we
replace this corroded pipe since it apparently connects to an elbow
*inside* the wall?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273268515/

If the flow is ok, don't worry about it. You never saw inside that

pipe, and it may very well be fairly unrestricted. Scale forms more
at fittings, where the water changes direction, or becomes turbulent.
If the pipe connects to an ell inside the wall, you would have to
knock out the wall to get a bite on the ell with a wrench to prevent
the possibility of breaking a pipe. If the pipe goes into a tee (for
example the run continues to feed elsewhere) you can probably just
twist it out. Just remember that one has to continue replacing if
anything screws up.

2. Could/should we have just hack sawed the horizontal galvanized pipe and
rethreaded somehow (it's leaking very slightly from where the corroded
threads meet the new steel nipple)?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262551/

Most likely you didn't crank it in enough, or the ell threads were

fouled with hardened dope. That's a good reason to replace ells.
OTOH the external pipe threads can often be cleaned of old dope and
inserted further than before into the fitting, making up for any
corrosion.
If the leak doesn't stop, you'll have to redo that. There may be
remedies for the leak, but I can't recommend any.

3. Is our cold water shut off valve too close to the hot vent flue for
safety?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2385/2274079134_7986c459d6_m.jpg

Still don't know why you used a lever valve. The least you could have

done was to install the valve with lever away from the vent, 90
degrees rotated from where it is.
I doubt it's an issue though, unless the valve has plastic that can
melt. See how hot it gets after a heater run.

Please advise as this job brought up more questions than answers!
Donna
http://www.flickr.com/donnaohl

Except for the leak, you did fine. Don't overthink it. Galvanized
pipes can easily last 50 years. The pipes in my house are that old
and in fine shape, but perhaps restricted a bit with scale.
If you decide to replace them with copper or PEX, you can no doubt do
that yourself, since you are willing to study how. It will be tougher
than a water heater though.
Somebody mentioned the gas flex you used, and you should be absolutely
certain you've done that safely. I have used only black pipe for gas,
so don't know about the flex fittings, except I use the new, certified
ones when I replace a range. There was a batch of faulty gas flex
hoses installed on ranges that caused some explosions/deaths, so check
into that too.

--Vic

 

[Donna Ohl, Grady Voluntee]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:30:03 GMT, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Start thinking about replacing all of that galvanized pipe
with either copper or pex.

Hi Edwin,

Given how corroded the steel pipes were (I can't believe my kids drank
water from those pipes!), maybe we'll try to replace all our plumbing when
the weather warms up (Bill is on the roof right now doing the shingles
which blew off in the last storm).

It seems like an easy job for the piping under the crawl space.

But it seems difficult for the piping hidden in the wall.
(Do we have to rip the walls apart?)

And the pipes under the driveway to the main water meter.
(Do we have to break open the driveway?)

Is replacing the galvanized pipes with copper a do-it-yourself job Billa nd
I can do together?

Donna

 

[Donna Ohl, Grady Voluntee]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:30:03 GMT, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

From the photo, it looks as though you used on SS line and one copper line.
If so, that is a sure sign of a hack job.

Hi Edwin,

Again, thanks for the review of the job!

We had to make many compromises we felt a plumber would make also!
(tell us if they would have done this differently after reading why below)

The reason for the flex copper cold water input is that there wasn't room
for anything else. Given the shortest copper flex line we could find, we
couldn't fit the dialectric unions. The shortest stainless steel lines we
could find at multiple stores wouldn't bend enough.

We had to mate the cold water inlet's galvanized steel elbow to a steel
nipple to a bronze ball valve to the copper flex line to the dialectric
nipple screwed into the inlet of teh steel tank.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2274079134/

On the hot water side, likewise, there wasn't room for the copper flex plus
two dialectric unions, but at least we could mate steel directly to steel
by going from the galvanized steel elbow to a steel nipple to the steel
pipe to the dialectric nipple screwed into the steel tank.

KEY QUESTION: Would a plumber have done it differently? How?

MINOR QUESTION: Why do some stainless steel lines have brass fittings yet
they all say they are for mating steel to steel?

Donna