Think this through with me ...

[Arfa Daily]

"Roy L" <Roy.L@work.com> wrote in message
news:49787308$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gl9p4m$l7d$1@news.motzarella.org...
Average Joe public does not understand how easy it is to
construct an apparently random ball selector using OCR
or embedded RFID.

In the US, the ball selectors are wholly mechanical -- you can see their
operation through the clear walls. There is no place to hide sensors or
electro-mechanical devices.


Here in the UK they are like an old oversize jukebox, the balls are
visible in the top part. We dont know what is in the bottom part. At
intervals a gate allows a ball to pop through into a chute. For all we
know, this gate only opens when the "right" ball is in the correct
position. I am pretty sure that I read somewhere that the balls are
"serviced" by an electronics company. Very strange if true. Perhaps I
should have taken this to another thread or even group, sorry about the
apparent hijack Arfa. Blame Ron, HE started it!
Roy

No probs. I think that these discussions, however loosely electronics
related, are often very interesting and sometimes enlightening. I don't
think that there is a problem with them taking place, as long as a group is
not taken over by them, by way of people starting threads that are way off
topic in the first place. I know that some people on some groups have a real
problem with it, but as long as I have been associated with this group -
which is some years now - it has always taken place, and as long as it stays
in one thread at a time, I don't see it as a problem. I think it is just the
equivalent of a bunch of like-minded engineers having a natter over a pint
at the pub, and shows that we are not just nerdy electronic engineering
computer freaks, but have other interests as well.

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"jakdedert" <jakdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:gU_dl.306$yb.141@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

William Sommerwerck wrote:
Average Joe public does not understand how easy it is to
construct an apparently random ball selector using OCR
or embedded RFID.

In the US, the ball selectors are wholly mechanical -- you can see their
operation through the clear walls. There is no place to hide sensors or
electro-mechanical devices.


While there's no such thing as a 'United States' lottery, many of the
various states have initiated such a contest. Each administers its own
system as it sees fit. I personally am ambiguous about the idea of
government getting into the gambling business. The tickets are sold
mostly in convenience stores, which often takes the 'convenience' out of
them, when you get in line behind someone substituting the State for his
dream trip to Vegas. OTOH, my own daughter is going to college with some
of the funds thus generated.

In Tennessee, the numbers were originally generated by mechanical means,
but last year they went to a system of computer-generation. I expect a
little research would reveal several different systems.

jak

Interesting that they have gone over to a computer system from an
electro-mechanical one. I wonder what the theoretical comparisons of
randomness are between them ? It seems to me that a computer generation
system would be a lot easier to fiddle, with very few people needing to be
'in the know' about it. As far as governments getting involved, I feel a bit
like you on that score. Here in the UK, a fair amount of the takings are
'given away' to good causes. There is no requirement of the type or size or
whatever of the organisation. You just make your application stating what
the money is wanted for, and stating your case for applying as best you can,
and it will be looked at and either accepted, and an amount of money
allocated to you, or rejected. Rejection of a specific application, doesn't
preclude trying again, as many times as you like.

Arfa

 

[jakdedert]

Arfa Daily wrote:

Interesting that they have gone over to a computer system from an
electro-mechanical one. I wonder what the theoretical comparisons of
randomness are between them ? It seems to me that a computer generation
system would be a lot easier to fiddle, with very few people needing to be
'in the know' about it.

I worry about that, but then again, it's not 'my' money. I'm just not a
gambler, despite doing a fair amount of work in some of the largest
casinos in the world over the last three years: three or four weeks in
Vegas, three in Uncasville, CT (Mohegan Sun--second largest casino in
the world, and very few outside of the Northeast US have even heard of it).

As far as governments getting involved, I feel a bit
like you on that score. Here in the UK, a fair amount of the takings are
'given away' to good causes. There is no requirement of the type or size or
whatever of the organisation. You just make your application stating what
the money is wanted for, and stating your case for applying as best you can,
and it will be looked at and either accepted, and an amount of money
allocated to you, or rejected. Rejection of a specific application, doesn't
preclude trying again, as many times as you like.

In Tennessee, the money is strictly earmarked for college scholarships,

for which qualification is required...both initially and in order to
renew. That was the bargain the voters made with the Devil when they
approved it on a referendum. AIRC, it took an amendment to the state
constitution. FTR, I voted 'nay'. I always saw it as a tax on the
poor, although one they eagerly pay....

jak

Arfa

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:26:26 -0600, jakdedert
<jakdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote:

In Tennessee, the money is strictly earmarked for college scholarships,

In California, the state lottery money is distributed directly to the
various state skool districts through the state bored of edukation.
<http://www.calottery.com/support/lotteryfunds/>

Most of the money goes to the State and local colleges.
Kindergarten - 12th Grade 80.54%
Community Colleges 13.31%
California State University System 3.74%
University of California 2.20%
Other Educational Entities 0.21%
The bulk of the K12 funding goes to school districts with large
immigrant populations. The percentages seem to vary each year
depending mostly on the success or failure of various skool bond
elections.

The problem is that for every dollar contributed by the lottery, the
state redirects some of the budgeted educational funds for other
purposes. It's a net win for the skools, but not as much as it would
be if the state were not constantly juggling the funding. I keep
hearing horror stories of teachers buying classroom supplies with
their own money, so I know things are not working too well.

In Santa Cruz county, the state installed a central 900MHz wireless
access point on top of the 4 story county building. Various
convenience stores and gas stations all have yagis pointing to the
this access point. Saves quite a bit on telco and datacomm costs.

Personally, I'm opposed to the entire concept on ethical grounds.
However, since it seems to be a tax on the statistically challenged,
I'm not opposed to separating them from their money. I bought a few
tickets perhaps 20 years ago when the system first appeared. I lost
on all of them and have not bought a lottery ticket since then.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Arfa Daily]

"jakdedert" <jakdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:YS9el.542$r9.6@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

Arfa Daily wrote:

Interesting that they have gone over to a computer system from an
electro-mechanical one. I wonder what the theoretical comparisons of
randomness are between them ? It seems to me that a computer generation
system would be a lot easier to fiddle, with very few people needing to
be 'in the know' about it.

I worry about that, but then again, it's not 'my' money. I'm just not a
gambler, despite doing a fair amount of work in some of the largest
casinos in the world over the last three years: three or four weeks in
Vegas, three in Uncasville, CT (Mohegan Sun--second largest casino in the
world, and very few outside of the Northeast US have even heard of it).

As far as governments getting involved, I feel a bit like you on that
score. Here in the UK, a fair amount of the takings are 'given away' to
good causes. There is no requirement of the type or size or whatever of
the organisation. You just make your application stating what the money
is wanted for, and stating your case for applying as best you can, and it
will be looked at and either accepted, and an amount of money allocated
to you, or rejected. Rejection of a specific application, doesn't
preclude trying again, as many times as you like.

In Tennessee, the money is strictly earmarked for college scholarships,
for which qualification is required...both initially and in order to
renew. That was the bargain the voters made with the Devil when they
approved it on a referendum. AIRC, it took an amendment to the state
constitution. FTR, I voted 'nay'. I always saw it as a tax on the poor,
although one they eagerly pay....

jak
Arfa

Interestingly, the phrase "Tax on the poor" is precisely the one that has
been used many times here, too ...

Arfa

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Arfa Daily wrote:

Interestingly, the phrase "Tax on the poor" is precisely the one that has
been used many times here, too ...

Thomas Jefferson was for the lottery, saying that it only taxes the willing.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM