Things that go beep in the night....

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-06-28 20:30, Don Y wrote:

On 6/28/2023 4:47 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-06-28 13:17, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/06/2023 14:29, Don Y wrote:
On 6/27/2023 2:11 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

...

I know how to beat my alarm as do the real pros but it would be way
more effort than the meagre pickings here would justify.

On my type of alarm, they use inhibitors. They block communications
between sensors and control unit. Some units can detect the inhibitors
and alert headquarters (they claim), so the bad guys could also
inhibit mobile phone connections.

.. or wired (land line) connections.

The land line can be cut.

I deliberately decided against wirelsss comms for all of my automation,
here
for this reason (as well as bandwidth limitations).  Even if comms aren\'t
spoofed, they can be blocked/corrupted (DoS).

In my case, land line was not available (beach place). And my goal was
not initially as deterrent, but to know that the house was \"open\" and
that I had to drive there to close the door. Never happened, the
deterrent was good.

As I said elsewhere:

Trip the alarm.  Wait for someone to respond -- and find nothing remiss.
Trip the alarm.  Wait for someone to respond -- and find nothing remiss.
..

If I can do this sitting in a car across the street or in some other
way that doesn\'t require my \"unexplained presence\" on the property,
all the better!

In school, one of the computer centers was heavily protected.
So, slip a balloon under a door.  Fill with helium and let it
float around to be detected by the motion detectors.

Eventually, save the helium and just let air act as a
propellant to power the deflating balloon around the room.
Meanwhile, you\'re long gone.

:-D

Even in that case, when they leave the alarm would alert me that the
door is open, which is enough for me to go there and close it again. I
have nothing of value worth stealing. I had an oil painting, but they
would not recognize it, and it is easy to identify it when trying to
sell it (nor is it worth enough to bother) :-D

What if they decided to \"squat\" in the place?  And, built a small fire
for warmth -- using lumber from furnishings?  Which then enveloped
the entire place?

Doesn\'t happen that much.

Actually, the security company campaigns to scare the public into
believing it is an actual danger and buy more security. It works. I
mean, they sell a lot of alarms.

[Homeless encampments are often discouraged for similar reasons.
THEY have nothing invested in their current site so no real
NEED to keep it safe]

The motives of these folks are often confusing to rational people.

We stopped allowing (often homeless) people to use the restroom at
one facility because they would literally spread *shit* on the walls!
What value that??  Now you don\'t have a place to shit!  <frown

Homeless people are way more polite over here

Of course, they could steal the fridge (some do), but that\'s a sweat
that most thieves will decline, they go for small things like jewels
or money (fat chance). Maybe expensive sound or video equipment.

Access to power, phone, heat/shelter, etc.?

Yeah, never happened. Still, the alarm would warn and I can send the police.

The only incident related to that was some youths (my guess) camping in
a terrace outside of the house. They brought a mattress, chairs, a lot
of drinks (soft), and a lot of junk food in bags. All of that rotten and
very smelly, because of the sun.

I cleared it out, then I put a very visible camera sensor in that part
of the house.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-06-28 20:08, Don Y wrote:

On 6/28/2023 2:47 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-06-27 16:02, Don Y wrote:
On 6/27/2023 6:19 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

Indeed they are and infrequent enough to be a PITA. Especially at
4am which is when they tend to start doing it for low battery!

And, if they can be easily silenced, they WILL be.  Thus defeating their
purpose.  (supposedly, a large percentage of home fires find smoke
detectors that are inoperative -- likely the battery was removed with
the PLAN of replacing it... but that never happened!)

We take a proactive approach and just replace them all on New
Year\'s Eve (*any* day could suffice).

Hum. Good 9 volts batteries have a cost.

shrug>  One (per sensor) per year doesn\'t seem to be too
prohibitively expensive.  The problem is remembering to replace
it before it TELLS you that it needs to be replaced.

Depends on your budget.


> A name-brand alkaline will usually power it for more than a year.

....

A beep can drive people nuts, instead of attending the possible actual
emergency.

Let intellect override emotion.  You wouldn\'t sit around trying to
silence an indication of fire/personal danger.  Just react to it and
get the hell out!

Sometimes that is not the proper reaction. Houses here are made of
brick, stone, and mortar, so the house itself doesn\'t catch fire, it is
the stuff inside. Often the proper reaction is to extinguish the fire
yourself _appropriately_. I have been in that situation more than once.

....

A chirp is better to locate, but many cars have sufficiently good
sound insulation these days

..as well as sound systems.. (ever seen someone wearing earbuds while
driving??)

That\'s a fine here. 200€ and 3 points, even if they are not connected.

None, AFAICT, here.  People are often seen wearing BT earpieces to
interface with their phones (it is illegal to \"hold\" your phone while
driving; not everyone has a vehicle with built-in BT phone interface
so those without rely on earpieces).

Other folks will wear stereo earbuds to listen to music, etc.

Here, it is illegal to hold your phone while driving, to manipulate it,
and to use any kind of earphones.

....

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-06-28 16:31, Don Y wrote:

On 6/28/2023 4:17 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/06/2023 14:29, Don Y wrote:
On 6/27/2023 2:11 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

It wouldn\'t do him any good at all with my alarm system. The standby
current is remarkably low - he would need to wait at least a week
(assuming the battery wasn\'t almost flat - which it was last month).

Trip the alarm.  Wait for someone to respond -- and find nothing remiss.
Trip the alarm.  Wait for someone to respond -- and find nothing remiss.
..
When folks have \"tuned out\" from the FALSE alarms, commit the crime.

About then the police will arrive.

If multiple \"false alarms\", the police (here) can fine you.
ISTR that an \"automated alarm\" must ring to a \"call center\"
and THEY must call the police.  So, a recurring service charge.

[Car alarms frequently are falsely triggered so no one really
pays any attention to them]

The only time it was sort of triggered in anger was when a farmer
hedge flailed the telephone interconnect box and all monitored local
alarm circuits went dead simultaneously as did all the phone lines.

Police arrived in about 15 minutes whilst I was cutting the grass and
asked if I was OK and why I hadn\'t answered the phone. A quick check
in the house showed no dial tone and alarm in phone line disconnected
mode.

They asked directions to the pub which was next on their list.

It took BT the best part of two weeks working solid with signal
tracers for them to reconnect the random coloured spaghetti that
resulted and the truncated and sometimes double spliced copper phone
lines were never quite the same afterwards. I\'m on optical fibre now.

My uncle used to \"manage\" a CO, here.  He took me for a tour of the
facility, one time, when younger.

Four things stood out in my mind:
- a room in which all of the pairs appear to be terminated on
  something akin to pushdown blocks.  Connecting new service required
  locating a specific pair and wiring it accordingly.  Apparently
  a mind-numbing job (that paid well!)
- the room in the basement where all of the pairs entered the CO
  (big, thick bundles)
- the brick shed out back that housed the jet engine powered
  backup generator
- the talk \"battery\" (and ring generator)

I, of course, asked \"What happens if you have a fire in one
of those wire rooms...?\"

I guess the idea is too horrific to consider!

Those cables can\'t start a fire, the current is very low, even with a
short circuit. The equipment room is usually equipped with automatic
extinguisher system (gas, not water).

Locks and structures, in general, really aren\'t designed to thwart a
determined adversary.  The antagonist has more degrees of freedom in
his attack surface than the defender has resources with which to defend.

I know how to beat my alarm as do the real pros but it would be way
more effort than the meagre pickings here would justify.

There are always \"riper pickings\".  The trick is knowing where.

A neighbor had just moved in and locked himself, wife and
infant newborn out on a Sunday.  High temperature meant
they weren\'t going to be safe out there (so they came and
stayed with us:  \"Hi, I\'m Don...\").  Locksmith wouldn\'t come
out until \"after the game\" (college ball is really big, here;
stores will set a TV on a shopping card for patrons to watch!)

We wandered over to his place.  He was hoping to \"card\" the
front door (that won\'t work).

I looked around the house checking windows and sliding doors.
Walked back home to fetch a screwdriver.  Removed *one*
screw from the kitchen window (that held the center stile
in place).  Removed the stile.  And the sliding pane.
Then, asked him if he wanted to lift *me* into the window
or if he would prefer I lift *him* (the window being 4 ft off
the ground)...

The look on his face was priceless:  Christ, this guy just broke
into my house in 3 minutes... and he lives next door!  I probably
don\'t want him as an enemy!  :

:-DD


--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Don Y]

On 6/29/2023 4:10 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Four things stood out in my mind:
- a room in which all of the pairs appear to be terminated on
   something akin to pushdown blocks.  Connecting new service required
   locating a specific pair and wiring it accordingly.  Apparently
   a mind-numbing job (that paid well!)
- the room in the basement where all of the pairs entered the CO
   (big, thick bundles)
- the brick shed out back that housed the jet engine powered
   backup generator
- the talk \"battery\" (and ring generator)

I, of course, asked \"What happens if you have a fire in one
of those wire rooms...?\"

I guess the idea is too horrific to consider!

Those cables can\'t start a fire, the current is very low, even with a short
circuit. The equipment room is usually equipped with automatic extinguisher
system (gas, not water).

\"Fire\" was just an example of \"what happens if this room is destroyed?\"
A vehicle could crash into the outer wall. Flammable liquids can seep
into the room in the basement where the cables enter/exit. Etc.

The point being, there is no practical way to reconstitute that wiring
in any \"reasonable\" amount of time -- realizing that all of the
subscribers served by the CO would be impacted.

Similarly, here we have \"wiring cabinets\" by the roadside that serve an
entire neighborhood (200+ homes). A vehicle driving into one (accidentally
or deliberately) would render all of those connections inoperable.

[Of course, land lines are used less and less]

Cell towers?

Many services are vulnerable in that way. Our water mains periodically
come up out of the ground for a valve fitting... in the street median...
unprotected.

The folks (city employees) who installed the signs warning of the speed humps
in our neighborhood drove the sign post for one right through the CATV feed
with their hydraulic ram.

We hear reports of people taking (gun) shots at electrical substations
(protected by a very permeable chain link fence).

The (water) well that serves our neighborhood is similarly \"protected\".

 

[Don Y]

On 6/29/2023 4:03 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On my type of alarm, they use inhibitors. They block communications between
sensors and control unit. Some units can detect the inhibitors and alert
headquarters (they claim), so the bad guys could also inhibit mobile phone
connections.

.. or wired (land line) connections.

The land line can be cut.

That was my point. You can\'t rely on out-facing interfaces to be operational.
And, can\'t easily \"ping\" them to identify when they are \"down\".

I deliberately decided against wirelsss comms for all of my automation, here
for this reason (as well as bandwidth limitations).  Even if comms aren\'t
spoofed, they can be blocked/corrupted (DoS).

In my case, land line was not available (beach place). And my goal was not
initially as deterrent, but to know that the house was \"open\" and that I had to
drive there to close the door. Never happened, the deterrent was good.

If there is something \"more accessible\" then you are likely passed-over.
But, there\'s no predicting the mind of a vandal.

In one of the basements, at school, there were many rock/mineral samples
in (pad)locked crates. A friend went through, one night, unlocking all
of them. Just for \"practice\".

Nothing stolen. Minor inconvenience. But, inconvenience just the same!

Even in that case, when they leave the alarm would alert me that the door is
open, which is enough for me to go there and close it again. I have nothing
of value worth stealing. I had an oil painting, but they would not recognize
it, and it is easy to identify it when trying to sell it (nor is it worth
enough to bother) :-D

What if they decided to \"squat\" in the place?  And, built a small fire
for warmth -- using lumber from furnishings?  Which then enveloped
the entire place?

Doesn\'t happen that much.

We have a lot of homes that are only occupied for a portion of the year.
So, it is wise to either enlist neighbors to watch theproperty *or*
install an *intrusion* alarm.

Actually, the security company campaigns to scare the public into believing it
is an actual danger and buy more security. It works. I mean, they sell a lot of
alarms.

Here, it would be guns.

[Homeless encampments are often discouraged for similar reasons.
THEY have nothing invested in their current site so no real
NEED to keep it safe]

The motives of these folks are often confusing to rational people.

We stopped allowing (often homeless) people to use the restroom at
one facility because they would literally spread *shit* on the walls!
What value that??  Now you don\'t have a place to shit!  <frown

Homeless people are way more polite over here

It\'s not that they are \"impolite\" but, rather, often have mental
health/substance abuse issues.

 

[Don Y]

On 6/29/2023 4:19 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

We take a proactive approach and just replace them all on New
Year\'s Eve (*any* day could suffice).

Hum. Good 9 volts batteries have a cost.

shrug>  One (per sensor) per year doesn\'t seem to be too
prohibitively expensive.  The problem is remembering to replace
it before it TELLS you that it needs to be replaced.

Depends on your budget.

Retail is ~$3-4 per (9V) battery. Considering it\'s only once annually,
it seems a small price to pay.

What\'s amusing is that the periodic \"test battery\" activity is the
thing that depletes it (as the sensor is mains powered 24/7/365)

The \"used\" batteries still have life in them. But, we\'ve opted
not to bother trying to make use of that -- who wants to deploy a
partially discharged battery in *anything*?

A beep can drive people nuts, instead of attending the possible actual
emergency.

Let intellect override emotion.  You wouldn\'t sit around trying to
silence an indication of fire/personal danger.  Just react to it and
get the hell out!

Sometimes that is not the proper reaction. Houses here are made of brick,
stone, and mortar, so the house itself doesn\'t catch fire, it is the stuff
inside. Often the proper reaction is to extinguish the fire yourself
_appropriately_. I have been in that situation more than once.

It\'s just \"stuff\". Insurance will cover some of the loss (the LAND
doesn\'t burn!). Very few things that I own that I would risk trying
to save!

A chirp is better to locate, but many cars have sufficiently good sound
insulation these days

..as well as sound systems.. (ever seen someone wearing earbuds while
driving??)

That\'s a fine here. 200€ and 3 points, even if they are not connected.

None, AFAICT, here.  People are often seen wearing BT earpieces to
interface with their phones (it is illegal to \"hold\" your phone while
driving; not everyone has a vehicle with built-in BT phone interface
so those without rely on earpieces).

Other folks will wear stereo earbuds to listen to music, etc.

Here, it is illegal to hold your phone while driving, to manipulate it, and to
use any kind of earphones.

Holding a phone is now illegal. But, operating it isn\'t. E.g.,
paired with the car, one can effectively use it (for comms)
WHILE driving.

AFAICT, there is no prohibition against using earphones.
DEAF persons are allowed to drive, so why discriminate
against \"temporarily deafened\" folks?

[It\'s just common sense to avail yourself of ALL your senses
when driving and not willingly deaden one of them. Would you
drive with one eye closed??]

 

[Don Y]

On 6/29/2023 2:07 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

I know how to beat my alarm as do the real pros but it would be way more
effort than the meagre pickings here would justify.

On my type of alarm, they use inhibitors. They block communications between
sensors and control unit. Some units can detect the inhibitors and alert
headquarters (they claim), so the bad guys could also inhibit mobile phone
connections.

My alarm is old school all hidden hard wired as required (at the time) by the
insurers. Wireless kit has come on a very long way since then.

I still don\'t trust wireless -- for the cost of avoiding wiring?

We\'ve installed perimeter defenses, mats under carpet and other
\"sensors\". The goal is to spend the money/effort and not need it! :>

Of course, they could steal the fridge (some do), but that\'s a sweat that
most thieves will decline, they go for small things like jewels or money (fat
chance). Maybe expensive sound or video equipment.

Back when I was a student someone broke into my car and left 50p that fell out
of their pocket whilst trying to start it unsuccessfully. Car keys back then
were so bad that almost anything would open a car door.

I wasn\'t thatlucky -- a brick through a window... to steal a winter jacket!

Sheesh! Come get me, I\'ll unlock the car and GIVE it to you!
(driving the 25 miles home, at night, with an open window and
no jacket in the winter cold was no fun!)

My anti-theft technique was simple but effective. It took more than just a key
that fitted to start the car. So they gave up.

I designed a CDI for my car (the one mentioned above) and
arranged a time-delay relay to open the battery connection to
it after 2 minutes if a hidden button not pressed in that time.

The thinking was, to let the thief THINK he\'d stolen the
car, get out into traffic, and then have the car die.
Open the hood and see this homemade box in the ignition
circuit and walk away (*if* they went THAT far!)

Never had any problems with that, though.

We had purchased a carload of goods at a sale, one evening.
Returned to the car to find it wouldn\'t start. Opened hood
to find coil wire conveniently removed -- no doubt thinking
most folks wouldn\'t even go THAT far in their diagnosis in
a parking lot.

Unloaded car (station wagon). Opened trunk. Removed spare
plug wire from the box of \"bits\" kept there...

...and home we drove!

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 10:07:42 +0100, Martin Brown
<\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 28/06/2023 12:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-06-28 13:17, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/06/2023 14:29, Don Y wrote:
On 6/27/2023 2:11 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

...

I know how to beat my alarm as do the real pros but it would be way
more effort than the meagre pickings here would justify.

On my type of alarm, they use inhibitors. They block communications
between sensors and control unit. Some units can detect the inhibitors
and alert headquarters (they claim), so the bad guys could also inhibit
mobile phone connections.

My alarm is old school all hidden hard wired as required (at the time)
by the insurers. Wireless kit has come on a very long way since then.
Of course, they could steal the fridge (some do), but that\'s a sweat
that most thieves will decline, they go for small things like jewels or
money (fat chance). Maybe expensive sound or video equipment.

Back when I was a student someone broke into my car and left 50p that
fell out of their pocket whilst trying to start it unsuccessfully. Car
keys back then were so bad that almost anything would open a car door.

My anti-theft technique was simple but effective. It took more than just
a key that fitted to start the car. So they gave up.

A Swedish friend told the story of his Father, who frustrated car
thieves by a brass valve in the fuel line to the carburetor, the valve
being mounted in a dark corner of the floor around the driver. If the
valve was closed, the car could still be started, but would run out of
gas just as the thief war trying to drive away, out in the open. It
did happen a few times, but never with success.

Joe Gwinn

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 7:20:18 AM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Here, it is illegal to hold your phone while driving, to manipulate it,
and to use any kind of earphones.

So the carmakers build a phone interface into the car, which is just as problematic to operate, but legal.

Just yesterday I was driving and the phone rang. I couldn\'t even take my eyes off the road to see who was calling. Sometimes you just have to drive!

One I really hate is when there\'s something odd going on and I focus on the road ahead, not giving any attention to how I\'m holding the steering wheel.. Sometimes that is the point where the car warns me that I\'m not putting enough pressure on the steering wheel! No, of course not. I\'m paying attention to the damn road, like I\'m supposed to!!!

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 10:15:16 AM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 10:07:42 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 28/06/2023 12:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-06-28 13:17, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/06/2023 14:29, Don Y wrote:
On 6/27/2023 2:11 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

...

I know how to beat my alarm as do the real pros but it would be way
more effort than the meagre pickings here would justify.

On my type of alarm, they use inhibitors. They block communications
between sensors and control unit. Some units can detect the inhibitors
and alert headquarters (they claim), so the bad guys could also inhibit
mobile phone connections.

My alarm is old school all hidden hard wired as required (at the time)
by the insurers. Wireless kit has come on a very long way since then.
Of course, they could steal the fridge (some do), but that\'s a sweat
that most thieves will decline, they go for small things like jewels or
money (fat chance). Maybe expensive sound or video equipment.

Back when I was a student someone broke into my car and left 50p that
fell out of their pocket whilst trying to start it unsuccessfully. Car
keys back then were so bad that almost anything would open a car door.

My anti-theft technique was simple but effective. It took more than just
a key that fitted to start the car. So they gave up.
A Swedish friend told the story of his Father, who frustrated car
thieves by a brass valve in the fuel line to the carburetor, the valve
being mounted in a dark corner of the floor around the driver. If the
valve was closed, the car could still be started, but would run out of
gas just as the thief war trying to drive away, out in the open. It
did happen a few times, but never with success.

Yes, excellent idea. Run a gasoline line through the passenger compartment! God! The things people think of.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Don Y]

On 6/25/2023 11:25 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

[*] The ease of putting things into unintended modes, and the difficulty of
knowing which mode an appliance is in without reference to a manual, is another
issue.

Like the display that blanks on the stove so you don\'t realize you\'ve
got a timer running! (Gee, you don\'t blank when I\'m COOKING so why do
you blank when I\'m TIMING? What\'s the criteria at work, there?)

I can\'t count the number of times I will walk up to a workstation
and move the mouse to unblank the display to see what\'s going on...
only to realize that the machine was spooling the 100+GB of memory
out into the \"hibernation\" file... and, once done (and the machine
IN hibernation), it will respond to that mouse motion and wake
everything back up! <frown>

But, by far, the worst are electronic devices (components) with
\"modes\". Do <something> to put it in <some> mode. Then, operate
on it IN that mode. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Fine for folks who are single-thread minded... tolerable for
diligent folks who live in a foreground-background world...
but, in a preemptive/multitasking world, screws anyone who
hasn\'t learned to appreciate atomic operations!

I have a section (near the start) in all my products called \"Reset\"
(verb). The goal, there, is to PROGRAMATICALLY drive the system to
the same state that the /RESET signal would. RELIABLY. (i.e., the
whole code fragment must be treated as atomic).

It typically needs to be well annotated (and written in ASM) to explain
why you are doing seemingly nonsensical things: \"You JUST read that
device in the statement preceding, why are you reading it AGAIN?\"

But, this isn\'t enough. Unless you are positive that none of your other
multi-cycle accesses of similar devices can ever be interrupted
(think: NMI, glitch, etc.), there\'s no guarantee that ASSUMING the
\"device/peripheral\" is in the initial state of a multicycle access
will be a valid assumption. And, if it ever is NOT in that state,
then all of your dutifully enforced atomic, multicycle accesses
will perpetuate that condition!

[Of course, there\'s no way to ASK the device/component what state
of such a multicycle access it happens to be in at any given time!]

Coding on baremetal requires folks who are keenly aware of all of
the things that can alter the sequence of instructions from the time
of the most recent /RESET to the present. (delightfully difficult
bugs to reproduce, otherwise!)

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 10:17:29 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 10:15:16?AM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 10:07:42 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 28/06/2023 12:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-06-28 13:17, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/06/2023 14:29, Don Y wrote:
On 6/27/2023 2:11 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

...

I know how to beat my alarm as do the real pros but it would be way
more effort than the meagre pickings here would justify.

On my type of alarm, they use inhibitors. They block communications
between sensors and control unit. Some units can detect the inhibitors
and alert headquarters (they claim), so the bad guys could also inhibit
mobile phone connections.

My alarm is old school all hidden hard wired as required (at the time)
by the insurers. Wireless kit has come on a very long way since then.
Of course, they could steal the fridge (some do), but that\'s a sweat
that most thieves will decline, they go for small things like jewels or
money (fat chance). Maybe expensive sound or video equipment.

Back when I was a student someone broke into my car and left 50p that
fell out of their pocket whilst trying to start it unsuccessfully. Car
keys back then were so bad that almost anything would open a car door.

My anti-theft technique was simple but effective. It took more than just
a key that fitted to start the car. So they gave up.
A Swedish friend told the story of his Father, who frustrated car
thieves by a brass valve in the fuel line to the carburetor, the valve
being mounted in a dark corner of the floor around the driver. If the
valve was closed, the car could still be started, but would run out of
gas just as the thief war trying to drive away, out in the open. It
did happen a few times, but never with success.

Yes, excellent idea. Run a gasoline line through the passenger compartment! God! The things people think of.

Not so fast. Valve body below floor, valve handle above.

Joe Gwinn

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 3:56:23 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 10:17:29 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 10:15:16?AM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 10:07:42 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 28/06/2023 12:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-06-28 13:17, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/06/2023 14:29, Don Y wrote:
On 6/27/2023 2:11 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

...

I know how to beat my alarm as do the real pros but it would be way
more effort than the meagre pickings here would justify.

On my type of alarm, they use inhibitors. They block communications
between sensors and control unit. Some units can detect the inhibitors
and alert headquarters (they claim), so the bad guys could also inhibit
mobile phone connections.

My alarm is old school all hidden hard wired as required (at the time)
by the insurers. Wireless kit has come on a very long way since then.
Of course, they could steal the fridge (some do), but that\'s a sweat
that most thieves will decline, they go for small things like jewels or
money (fat chance). Maybe expensive sound or video equipment.

Back when I was a student someone broke into my car and left 50p that
fell out of their pocket whilst trying to start it unsuccessfully. Car
keys back then were so bad that almost anything would open a car door..

My anti-theft technique was simple but effective. It took more than just
a key that fitted to start the car. So they gave up.
A Swedish friend told the story of his Father, who frustrated car
thieves by a brass valve in the fuel line to the carburetor, the valve
being mounted in a dark corner of the floor around the driver. If the
valve was closed, the car could still be started, but would run out of
gas just as the thief war trying to drive away, out in the open. It
did happen a few times, but never with success.

Yes, excellent idea. Run a gasoline line through the passenger compartment! God! The things people think of.
Not so fast. Valve body below floor, valve handle above.

Joe Gwinn

Ok, fair enough.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-06-29 15:39, Don Y wrote:

On 6/29/2023 4:03 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On my type of alarm, they use inhibitors. They block communications
between sensors and control unit. Some units can detect the
inhibitors and alert headquarters (they claim), so the bad guys
could also inhibit mobile phone connections.

.. or wired (land line) connections.

The land line can be cut.

That was my point.  You can\'t rely on out-facing interfaces to be
operational.
And, can\'t easily \"ping\" them to identify when they are \"down\".

I deliberately decided against wirelsss comms for all of my
automation, here
for this reason (as well as bandwidth limitations).  Even if comms
aren\'t
spoofed, they can be blocked/corrupted (DoS).

In my case, land line was not available (beach place). And my goal was
not initially as deterrent, but to know that the house was \"open\" and
that I had to drive there to close the door. Never happened, the
deterrent was good.

If there is something \"more accessible\" then you are likely passed-over.
But, there\'s no predicting the mind of a vandal.

In one of the basements, at school, there were many rock/mineral samples
in (pad)locked crates.  A friend went through, one night, unlocking all
of them.  Just for \"practice\".

Nothing stolen.  Minor inconvenience.  But, inconvenience just the same!

Even in that case, when they leave the alarm would alert me that the
door is open, which is enough for me to go there and close it again.
I have nothing of value worth stealing. I had an oil painting, but
they would not recognize it, and it is easy to identify it when
trying to sell it (nor is it worth enough to bother) :-D

What if they decided to \"squat\" in the place?  And, built a small fire
for warmth -- using lumber from furnishings?  Which then enveloped
the entire place?

Doesn\'t happen that much.

We have a lot of homes that are only occupied for a portion of the year.
So, it is wise to either enlist neighbors to watch theproperty *or*
install an *intrusion* alarm.

Actually, the security company campaigns to scare the public into
believing it is an actual danger and buy more security. It works. I
mean, they sell a lot of alarms.

Here, it would be guns.

LOL.

But that doesn\'t work when you are absent, maybe for months.

(if someone thinks of recovering his home by force, here they would see
the inside of a jail for some, non trivial, time).

The key here is to find out soon and going to the police. If it is your
home, even your vacation home, the police can act fast. The first day
the squatters can not claim it is their home, that they have lived there
for months and that they don\'t have where to live.

[Homeless encampments are often discouraged for similar reasons.
THEY have nothing invested in their current site so no real
NEED to keep it safe]

The motives of these folks are often confusing to rational people.

We stopped allowing (often homeless) people to use the restroom at
one facility because they would literally spread *shit* on the walls!
What value that??  Now you don\'t have a place to shit!  <frown

Homeless people are way more polite over here

It\'s not that they are \"impolite\" but, rather, often have mental
health/substance abuse issues.

There is that.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Don Y]

On 6/30/2023 4:01 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Actually, the security company campaigns to scare the public into believing
it is an actual danger and buy more security. It works. I mean, they sell a
lot of alarms.

Here, it would be guns.

LOL.

But that doesn\'t work when you are absent, maybe for months.

(if someone thinks of recovering his home by force, here they would see the
inside of a jail for some, non trivial, time).

The key here is to find out soon and going to the police. If it is your home,
even your vacation home, the police can act fast. The first day the squatters
can not claim it is their home, that they have lived there for months and that
they don\'t have where to live.

The police don\'t give much notice to property crimes, here.

On my evening walk, one night, I found a car at a home that I
knew to be \"unoccupied\" (actually, the woman who owns the home
was living with her invalid mother continuously so the house,
here, was essentially just her \"closet\" for HER possessions
which she would \"visit\" periodically).

A guy was standing at the door, knocking. <shrug> Maybe
she\'s there, today...

I made a quick loop around a side street to return to that
same place. To see the \"guy\'s\" truck -- and trailer -- loaded
with household goods as he hopped in and drove off.

I committed the license plates of the truck and trailer to
memory (reciting them to myself, /sotto voce/) as I walked to
HER neighbor\'s home. When that neighbor answered the door,
I motioned for a pen/paper as I continued reciting the plate
numbers. Scribbled them down. Then, recounted my observations.

\"No, she\'s not at the house, this week.\"

\"Then, she was just robbed. We need to phone the police...\"

I then continued my walk around the neighborhood to return
to THAT neighbor\'s home some 15 minutes later. To find a patrol
car and officer waiting outside the house. When I queried
what was happening, \"We\'re waiting for backup before we go
into the house...\"

(Yes, well that may be prudent POLICY, but the guy is gone
as are the belongings. \"Do you have someone sitting at
HIS house -- wherever the license plates are registered -- to
catch him as he returns home?\" D\'uh...)

Instead, they\'ll just record another burglary and use it
to justify more resources for the police department.

[Shouldn\'t wew be paying them based on how many crimes
they *solve/prevent* instead of the number they DON\'T?]

[Homeless encampments are often discouraged for similar reasons.
THEY have nothing invested in their current site so no real
NEED to keep it safe]

The motives of these folks are often confusing to rational people.

We stopped allowing (often homeless) people to use the restroom at
one facility because they would literally spread *shit* on the walls!
What value that??  Now you don\'t have a place to shit!  <frown

Homeless people are way more polite over here

It\'s not that they are \"impolite\" but, rather, often have mental
health/substance abuse issues.

There is that.

Sadly, there is no simple test to determine if someone is truly
in need (and can directly and permanently benefit from assistance)
or beyond *simple* help (OR, making a conscious decision to live
off the generosity of others)