The Light bulb Cartel

[amdx]

On 11/11/2019 4:28 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

amdx wrote:

-------------
It was named the Phoebus Cartel.

Phoebus
1. Greek Mythology Apollo, the god of the sun.
2. The sun.

"it engaged in large-scale planned obsolescence to generate repeated
sales and maximize profit."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel



** That Wiki is reporting a MYTH - not a scam.

Read the "Talk" FFS you sad wanker.


.... Phil

Myth: a widely held but false belief or idea.

Their seems to be evidence that the cartel did exist, with even more
recently found documents in just the past 5 years.

Did you get ahead of yourself on this?

The OP was meant to be sent to a friend I breakfast with. I had
mentioned a story I heard on NPR about the Pheobus Cartel. I wanted to
add some more info, so I sent him the wiki, I didn't read it, I expected
it to just confirm what I had said. I still haven't read it.



> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/dawn-of-electronics/the-great-lightbulb-conspiracy

Mikek

 

[Phil Allison]

Tom Gardner wrote:

---------------------

The light bulb 1000 hour limit was close to economically optimum, and
when the patents ran out anyone could offer anything that people
wanted.

Too simplistic.

** Rarely is the truth so simple.


> The cartel didn't want a longer lifetime.

** How simplistic - and false.

Traditionally cartels employ various underhand tactics to
ensure the cartel's continued existence.

** So the word itself has this fool flummoxed.

Maybe he stops in the middle of the street when the WALK sign changes too.

My dining room bulb hasn't been replaced in at least a decade,
and only once that I can remember in 30 years. I still have a
supply of the bulbs that I bought in the mid 80s

** Nice, uncheckable non-fact piece of bullshit.

Liars love to use non-facts only they know about as proof examples.

And those incapable of rational thought.


...... Phil

 

[amdx]

On 11/12/2019 1:35 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

amdx wrote:

-----------
It was named the Phoebus Cartel.

Phoebus
1. Greek Mythology Apollo, the god of the sun.
2. The sun.

"it engaged in large-scale planned obsolescence to generate repeated
sales and maximize profit."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel



** That Wiki is reporting a MYTH - not a scam.

Read the "Talk" FFS you sad wanker.

.... Phil




Myth: a widely held but false belief or idea.


** Correct - one of which you just dragged up and foisted on us.


Their seems to be evidence that the cartel did exist,

** The alleged nature of purpose is the myth.

You stupid, lying fuckwit.



The OP was meant to be sent to a friend I breakfast with. I had
mentioned a story I heard on NPR about the Pheobus Cartel. I wanted to
add some more info, so I sent him the wiki, I didn't read it, I expected
it to just confirm what I had said. I still haven't read it.



** Don't bother - it is all wild conspiracy theory garbage written by some know nothing nut case.

Close relative of yours maybe ?




..... Phil

Ya, go ahead clip the the part that refutes your claim of myth.
*********************************************************************


Myth: a widely held but false belief or idea.

Their seems to be evidence that the cartel did exist, with even more
recently found documents in just the past 5 years.

Did you get ahead of yourself on this?

The OP was meant to be sent to a friend I breakfast with. I had
mentioned a story I heard on NPR about the Pheobus Cartel. I wanted to
add some more info, so I sent him the wiki, I didn't read it, I expected
it to just confirm what I had said. I still haven't read it.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/dawn-of-electronics/the-great-lightbulb-conspiracy

Mikek

 

[Phil Allison]

amdx wrote:

----------------


** The alleged nature of the purpose is the myth.

You stupid, lying fuckwit.

The SCAM was selling long life bulbs that wasted power and buyers money on the FALSE pretext they were automatically better.



..... Phil

 

On Tuesday, 12 November 2019 15:20:46 UTC, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

The light bulb 1000 hour limit was close to economically optimum, and
when the patents ran out anyone could offer anything that people
wanted.

Even now, in a free market, most incandescent lifetimes are around
1000 hours.

Sometimes I put one incandescent in a string of LEDs when the LEDs
don't dim well. A little real ohms helps.

1000hr is not near optimal. I used to run some domestic filament lamps at 300hr to get more light from wattage limited fittings, and better TCO. 1000 hours was chosen because end users were more accepting of it, they were happier paying the premium for only replacing lamps 1/3 as often.

Optimal lamp life also varies a lot depending on lamp type. High price PAR38s are optimal at longer life, cheap A line were optimal at well below 1000 hours. Of course if you're using PAR38s you aren't trying to optimise TCO anyway, which pushes ideal life longer.


NT

 

On Tuesday, 12 November 2019 09:25:55 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:

On 11/11/2019 15:59, amdx wrote:
 It was named the Phoebus Cartel.

Phoebus
1. Greek Mythology Apollo, the god of the sun.
2. The sun.

"it engaged in large-scale planned obsolescence to generate repeated
sales and maximize profit."

To be fair to them shorter lifetime bulbs give a higher luminous
efficacy. You can't blame them for optimising their profits - that is
after all exactly what companies are in business to do.

The ultimate being photoflood bulbs which were good for 3 or 100 hours
use if you were lucky. They could sometimes fail on first switch on too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

                              Mikek

It is what you get in a "free market" when the manufacturers are allowed
to secretly conspire against consumers.

The point is it wasn't conspiring. 1000hr lamps are lewer TCO for end users than longer lived ones.


NT

 

[Phil Allison]

tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

-------------------------

1000hr is not near optimal. I used to run some domestic filament lamps
at 300hr to get more light from wattage limited fittings, and better TCO.

** So 10% more volts: 1.1^12 = 3.1 ??

Optimal lamp life also varies a lot depending on lamp type.
High price PAR38s are optimal at longer life,

** Halogen lamps and low voltage lamps tend to last longer.

120V, 1000W PAR64s last about 3000 hours even in entertainment applications.

As usual, the power to run them costs way more than new lamps.

Good thing for lighting rig guys they never have to pay for it.



..... Phil

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 2:24:48 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:

On 11/12/19 2:23 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 11/11/19 9:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

----------------


** Incandescent bulbs, under run by 25% in voltage and hence
filament temp can last 5 years at 8 hours per night.



overheating/thermal problem due to their location up by the roof of the
structure, or a combination, one by one they started to fail and become
intermittent and flicker,

** I have seen overdriven red LEDs change brightness and voltage on a
regular basis. They were in a Boogie guitar amplifier, a "Dual
Rectifier Roaster".
Belonged to a young, gay woman who brought it back, new from the USA
with her and it soon developed serious misbehaviour.

On advice, she took it to the local Boogie service agent who on a
hunch replaced all the output tubes and handed it back. Unfixed, with
a $300 bill.

Then it came to me to get really fixed, along with its hefty step-down
tranny.

What it did was change volume and tone randomly while being used -
wacky right ?

Soon discovered that the LEDs inside the many Vactecs were changing
voltage regularly, with some very high readings or even going open.

Looking at the PCB I realised it did not follow the schem, but did
follow the silk screening for the resistors feeding the Vactecs from
the 5V DC rail.

Instead of 470, 680 and 1000 ohms, 47, 68 & 100 ohms were installed !!

So 30 to 50 mA flowing instead of 3 to 6mA.

I replaced the wrong Rs and fitted new LEDs into the same Vactecs for
a total cure. Got a secret way for doing that.

The gay girl was not very pleased, cos she got another hefty bill from
me - nearly all for my time.

Teach her to buy absurdly heavy, 120VAC amps in the USA co they are
cheaper than out here. Then wind up with no warranty.



....  Phil

MB is sort of like the BMW of amps, over-complicated, overpriced, pain
to work on, coasting on name and "Made in America" lot at this point.
I've read Randall Smith is kind of a sleaze.



Well BMW coasts on "Made in Germany" engineering but y'know. The Germans
have made their fair share of junk

You mean like BMWs?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 20:06:47 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, 12 November 2019 15:20:46 UTC, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

The light bulb 1000 hour limit was close to economically optimum, and
when the patents ran out anyone could offer anything that people
wanted.

Even now, in a free market, most incandescent lifetimes are around
1000 hours.

Sometimes I put one incandescent in a string of LEDs when the LEDs
don't dim well. A little real ohms helps.

1000hr is not near optimal. I used to run some domestic filament lamps at 300hr to get more light from wattage limited fittings, and better TCO. 1000 hours was chosen because end users were more accepting of it, they were happier paying the premium for only replacing lamps 1/3 as often.

Yes. People's time is worth something too.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[bitrex]

On 11/13/19 2:49 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 11/13/19 1:13 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 2:24:48 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 11/12/19 2:23 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 11/11/19 9:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

----------------


** Incandescent bulbs, under run by 25% in voltage and hence
filament temp can last 5 years at 8 hours per night.



overheating/thermal problem due to their location up by the roof
of the
structure, or a combination, one by one they started to fail and
become
intermittent and flicker,

** I have seen overdriven red LEDs change brightness and voltage on a
regular basis. They were in a Boogie guitar amplifier, a "Dual
Rectifier Roaster".
Belonged to a young, gay woman who brought it back, new from the USA
with her and it soon developed serious misbehaviour.

On advice, she took it to the local Boogie service agent who on a
hunch replaced all the output tubes and handed it back. Unfixed, with
a $300 bill.

Then it came to me to get really fixed, along with its hefty step-down
tranny.

What it did was change volume and tone randomly while being used -
wacky right ?

Soon discovered that the LEDs inside the many Vactecs were changing
voltage regularly, with some very high readings or even going open.

Looking at the PCB I realised it did not follow the schem, but did
follow the silk screening for the resistors feeding the Vactecs from
the 5V DC rail.

Instead of 470, 680 and 1000 ohms, 47, 68 & 100 ohms were installed !!

So 30 to 50 mA flowing instead of 3 to 6mA.

I replaced the wrong Rs and fitted new LEDs into the same Vactecs for
a total cure. Got a secret way for doing that.

The gay girl was not very pleased, cos she got another hefty bill from
me - nearly all for my time.

Teach her to buy absurdly heavy, 120VAC amps in the USA co they are
cheaper than out here. Then wind up with no warranty.



....  Phil

MB is sort of like the BMW of amps, over-complicated, overpriced, pain
to work on, coasting on name and "Made in America" lot at this point.
I've read Randall Smith is kind of a sleaze.



Well BMW coasts on "Made in Germany" engineering but y'know. The Germans
have made their fair share of junk

You mean like BMWs?


BMW and Mercedes have made some excellent, reliable cars too they're not
all overpriced maintenance nightmares coasting on name alone, just some.

I think it was Phil who opined however that when the Germans screw it up
they really screw it up good and thorough they don't half-ass it.

 

[bitrex]

On 11/13/19 1:13 AM, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 2:24:48 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 11/12/19 2:23 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 11/11/19 9:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

----------------


** Incandescent bulbs, under run by 25% in voltage and hence
filament temp can last 5 years at 8 hours per night.



overheating/thermal problem due to their location up by the roof of the
structure, or a combination, one by one they started to fail and become
intermittent and flicker,

** I have seen overdriven red LEDs change brightness and voltage on a
regular basis. They were in a Boogie guitar amplifier, a "Dual
Rectifier Roaster".
Belonged to a young, gay woman who brought it back, new from the USA
with her and it soon developed serious misbehaviour.

On advice, she took it to the local Boogie service agent who on a
hunch replaced all the output tubes and handed it back. Unfixed, with
a $300 bill.

Then it came to me to get really fixed, along with its hefty step-down
tranny.

What it did was change volume and tone randomly while being used -
wacky right ?

Soon discovered that the LEDs inside the many Vactecs were changing
voltage regularly, with some very high readings or even going open.

Looking at the PCB I realised it did not follow the schem, but did
follow the silk screening for the resistors feeding the Vactecs from
the 5V DC rail.

Instead of 470, 680 and 1000 ohms, 47, 68 & 100 ohms were installed !!

So 30 to 50 mA flowing instead of 3 to 6mA.

I replaced the wrong Rs and fitted new LEDs into the same Vactecs for
a total cure. Got a secret way for doing that.

The gay girl was not very pleased, cos she got another hefty bill from
me - nearly all for my time.

Teach her to buy absurdly heavy, 120VAC amps in the USA co they are
cheaper than out here. Then wind up with no warranty.



....  Phil

MB is sort of like the BMW of amps, over-complicated, overpriced, pain
to work on, coasting on name and "Made in America" lot at this point.
I've read Randall Smith is kind of a sleaze.



Well BMW coasts on "Made in Germany" engineering but y'know. The Germans
have made their fair share of junk

You mean like BMWs?

BMW and Mercedes have made some excellent, reliable cars too they're not
all overpriced maintenance nightmares coasting on name alone, just some.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 4:55:06 PM UTC+11, Rick C wrote:

On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 2:49:46 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 11/13/19 1:13 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 2:24:48 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 11/12/19 2:23 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 11/11/19 9:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

----------------


** Incandescent bulbs, under run by 25% in voltage and hence
filament temp can last 5 years at 8 hours per night.



overheating/thermal problem due to their location up by the roof of the
structure, or a combination, one by one they started to fail and become
intermittent and flicker,

** I have seen overdriven red LEDs change brightness and voltage on a
regular basis. They were in a Boogie guitar amplifier, a "Dual
Rectifier Roaster".
Belonged to a young, gay woman who brought it back, new from the USA
with her and it soon developed serious misbehaviour.

On advice, she took it to the local Boogie service agent who on a
hunch replaced all the output tubes and handed it back. Unfixed, with
a $300 bill.

Then it came to me to get really fixed, along with its hefty step-down
tranny.

What it did was change volume and tone randomly while being used -
wacky right ?

Soon discovered that the LEDs inside the many Vactecs were changing
voltage regularly, with some very high readings or even going open..

Looking at the PCB I realised it did not follow the schem, but did
follow the silk screening for the resistors feeding the Vactecs from
the 5V DC rail.

Instead of 470, 680 and 1000 ohms, 47, 68 & 100 ohms were installed !!

So 30 to 50 mA flowing instead of 3 to 6mA.

I replaced the wrong Rs and fitted new LEDs into the same Vactecs for
a total cure. Got a secret way for doing that.

The gay girl was not very pleased, cos she got another hefty bill from
me - nearly all for my time.

Teach her to buy absurdly heavy, 120VAC amps in the USA co they are
cheaper than out here. Then wind up with no warranty.



....  Phil

MB is sort of like the BMW of amps, over-complicated, overpriced, pain
to work on, coasting on name and "Made in America" lot at this point.
I've read Randall Smith is kind of a sleaze.



Well BMW coasts on "Made in Germany" engineering but y'know. The Germans
have made their fair share of junk

You mean like BMWs?


BMW and Mercedes have made some excellent, reliable cars too they're not
all overpriced maintenance nightmares coasting on name alone, just some..

I have fond memories of the BMW 1600 and 2002 tii which were both very nice cars to drive if not to own. I remember meeting someone who had a two or three year old 2002 and it was rusting below the rear side windows as he explained it happened to all of them. Not if, but when. It took the Japanese to show all the world how to actually care enough to make reliable cars.. That's very ironic given the bad reputation Japanese goods had after WWII.

There's no irony involved. The Japanese merely learned to do manufacturing correctly, and ended up making a fetish of quality control, to the extent that Japanese "quality circles" and similar approaches were being taught- for money - in the West in the 1980's.

If people making stuff didn't learn to do it better, we wouldn't have much progress anywhere.

The US political process could use a bit of that kind of attention. The
US constitution has been amended from time to time, but not nearly enough.

People like James Arthur claim - straight-faced - that the founding tax evaders were divinely inspired and got everything pretty much perfect. Then you elect Donald Trump ... who James Arthur doesn't find as execerable as he ought to.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 2:49:46 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:

On 11/13/19 1:13 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 2:24:48 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 11/12/19 2:23 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 11/11/19 9:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

----------------


** Incandescent bulbs, under run by 25% in voltage and hence
filament temp can last 5 years at 8 hours per night.



overheating/thermal problem due to their location up by the roof of the
structure, or a combination, one by one they started to fail and become
intermittent and flicker,

** I have seen overdriven red LEDs change brightness and voltage on a
regular basis. They were in a Boogie guitar amplifier, a "Dual
Rectifier Roaster".
Belonged to a young, gay woman who brought it back, new from the USA
with her and it soon developed serious misbehaviour.

On advice, she took it to the local Boogie service agent who on a
hunch replaced all the output tubes and handed it back. Unfixed, with
a $300 bill.

Then it came to me to get really fixed, along with its hefty step-down
tranny.

What it did was change volume and tone randomly while being used -
wacky right ?

Soon discovered that the LEDs inside the many Vactecs were changing
voltage regularly, with some very high readings or even going open.

Looking at the PCB I realised it did not follow the schem, but did
follow the silk screening for the resistors feeding the Vactecs from
the 5V DC rail.

Instead of 470, 680 and 1000 ohms, 47, 68 & 100 ohms were installed !!

So 30 to 50 mA flowing instead of 3 to 6mA.

I replaced the wrong Rs and fitted new LEDs into the same Vactecs for
a total cure. Got a secret way for doing that.

The gay girl was not very pleased, cos she got another hefty bill from
me - nearly all for my time.

Teach her to buy absurdly heavy, 120VAC amps in the USA co they are
cheaper than out here. Then wind up with no warranty.



....  Phil

MB is sort of like the BMW of amps, over-complicated, overpriced, pain
to work on, coasting on name and "Made in America" lot at this point.
I've read Randall Smith is kind of a sleaze.



Well BMW coasts on "Made in Germany" engineering but y'know. The Germans
have made their fair share of junk

You mean like BMWs?


BMW and Mercedes have made some excellent, reliable cars too they're not
all overpriced maintenance nightmares coasting on name alone, just some.

I have fond memories of the BMW 1600 and 2002 tii which were both very nice cars to drive if not to own. I remember meeting someone who had a two or three year old 2002 and it was rusting below the rear side windows as he explained it happened to all of them. Not if, but when. It took the Japanese to show all the world how to actually care enough to make reliable cars. That's very ironic given the bad reputation Japanese goods had after WWII.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209