The Light bulb Cartel

[amdx]

It was named the Phoebus Cartel.

Phoebus
1. Greek Mythology Apollo, the god of the sun.
2. The sun.

"it engaged in large-scale planned obsolescence to generate repeated
sales and maximize profit."


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

Mikek

 

[Martin Riddle]

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 09:59:00 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

It was named the Phoebus Cartel.

Phoebus
1. Greek Mythology Apollo, the god of the sun.
2. The sun.

"it engaged in large-scale planned obsolescence to generate repeated
sales and maximize profit."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

Mikek

I guess you weren't happy paying 0.50c a bulb?

Now you can get a LED buld for >$8, and Hope it lasts for more than a
few years. You do relize that half of the 20 year bulbs will not make
it past 10y.

And I hevent touched on the cheap <$3 bulbs...


Cheers

 

[bitrex]

On 11/11/19 10:59 AM, amdx wrote:

 It was named the Phoebus Cartel.

Phoebus
1. Greek Mythology Apollo, the god of the sun.
2. The sun.

"it engaged in large-scale planned obsolescence to generate repeated
sales and maximize profit."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

                              Mikek

I've wondered what type of lamps were used at the tops of radio masts
before LEDs. That's an expensive bulb-swap.

 

[Phil Allison]

amdx wrote:

-------------

It was named the Phoebus Cartel.

Phoebus
1. Greek Mythology Apollo, the god of the sun.
2. The sun.

"it engaged in large-scale planned obsolescence to generate repeated
sales and maximize profit."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

** That Wiki is reporting a MYTH - not a scam.

Read the "Talk" FFS you sad wanker.


..... Phil

 

[amdx]

On 11/11/2019 2:05 PM, Martin Riddle wrote:

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 09:59:00 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

It was named the Phoebus Cartel.

Phoebus
1. Greek Mythology Apollo, the god of the sun.
2. The sun.

"it engaged in large-scale planned obsolescence to generate repeated
sales and maximize profit."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

Mikek

I guess you weren't happy paying 0.50c a bulb?

Now you can get a LED buld for >$8, and Hope it lasts for more than a
few years. You do relize that half of the 20 year bulbs will not make
it past 10y.

And I hevent touched on the cheap <$3 bulbs...


Cheers

Opps, I guess I better send this to where I thought I sent it.

But, ya, I was never happy with the life of CFLs or LEDs. I doubt it
will get any better. Drive pcbs as cheap as they can be made.
Mikek

 

[Phil Allison]

amdx = fucking MORON wrote:

----------------------------

-------------
It was named the Phoebus Cartel.

Phoebus
1. Greek Mythology Apollo, the god of the sun.
2. The sun.

"it engaged in large-scale planned obsolescence to generate repeated
sales and maximize profit."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel



** That Wiki is reporting a MYTH - not a scam.

Read the "Talk" FFS you sad wanker.




I'd explain it to you,

** FFS - you are one SAD fucking IDIOT !!!

Be an ice cold day in HELL when an autistic fuckhead like YOU explains anything to me.



...... Phil

 

[amdx]

On 11/11/2019 4:28 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

amdx wrote:

-------------
It was named the Phoebus Cartel.

Phoebus
1. Greek Mythology Apollo, the god of the sun.
2. The sun.

"it engaged in large-scale planned obsolescence to generate repeated
sales and maximize profit."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel



** That Wiki is reporting a MYTH - not a scam.

Read the "Talk" FFS you sad wanker.


.... Phil

I'd explain it to you, but you're such an ass.
My god, what happened in your development that caused such mental problems.

Mikek

 

[Phil Allison]

bitrex wrote:

-----------------

I've wondered what type of lamps were used at the tops of radio masts
before LEDs. That's an expensive bulb-swap.

** Incandescent bulbs, under run by 25% in voltage and hence filament temp can last 5 years at 8 hours per night.



.... Phil

 

[bitrex]

On 11/11/19 8:47 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 11/11/19 5:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

-----------------

I've wondered what type of lamps were used at the tops of radio masts
before LEDs. That's an expensive bulb-swap.


** Incandescent bulbs, under run by 25% in voltage and hence filament
temp can last 5 years at 8 hours per night.


...  Phil


One of the surviving large shopping malls in the Boston suburban area
that was built in the late 1980s (all are struggling, some in better
locations limping along better than others that weren't and closed)
replaced some of its bulb-type fixtures with LED bulbs.

It's a three-level enclosed mall with arched support columns spaced
every 10m or so running up to the glass roof and the tops of each of the
pillars are ringed in maybe 50-100 of what were originally clear
envelope incandescent, replaced with clear envelope LED bulbs that have
the array of a dozen or so LEDs on the sides of a post inside.

For a while all was well I guess but whether it was due to using a batch
of lamps all from the same bad batch, or buying discount lamps in volume
from a dodgy mfgr (it was a lot  lamps to replace), or an
overheating/thermal problem due to their location up by the roof of the
structure, or a combination, one by one they started to fail and become
intermittent and flicker, eventually probably 25%-50% of the lamps were
flickering all down the whole length of the mall like a huge Christmas
display or German discotheque.

And it was just like that for a number of years as I'm sure nobody in
the management of this already-struggling mall wanted to shell out the
cost yet again to make it right.

About a 1 million square-foot-of-retail space mall that expanded into
the mid 1990s. Appropriately sized for the time, about 50% too large for
the available customer base in the area now considering eShopping. Too
large to maintain effectively given the revenue it's bringing in.

 

[bitrex]

On 11/11/19 5:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

bitrex wrote:

-----------------

I've wondered what type of lamps were used at the tops of radio masts
before LEDs. That's an expensive bulb-swap.


** Incandescent bulbs, under run by 25% in voltage and hence filament temp can last 5 years at 8 hours per night.



... Phil

One of the surviving large shopping malls in the Boston suburban area
that was built in the late 1980s (all are struggling, some in better
locations limping along better than others that weren't and closed)
replaced some of its bulb-type fixtures with LED bulbs.

It's a three-level enclosed mall with arched support columns spaced
every 10m or so running up to the glass roof and the tops of each of the
pillars are ringed in maybe 50-100 of what were originally clear
envelope incandescent, replaced with clear envelope LED bulbs that have
the array of a dozen or so LEDs on the sides of a post inside.

For a while all was well I guess but whether it was due to using a batch
of lamps all from the same bad batch, or buying discount lamps in volume
from a dodgy mfgr (it was a lot lamps to replace), or an
overheating/thermal problem due to their location up by the roof of the
structure, or a combination, one by one they started to fail and become
intermittent and flicker, eventually probably 25%-50% of the lamps were
flickering all down the whole length of the mall like a huge Christmas
display or German discotheque.

And it was just like that for a number of years as I'm sure nobody in
the management of this already-struggling mall wanted to shell out the
cost yet again to make it right.

 

[Winfield Hill]

bitrex wrote...

bitrex wrote:

One of the surviving large shopping malls in the Boston suburban area
that was built in the late 1980s (all are struggling, some in better
locations limping along better than others that weren't and closed)
replaced some of its bulb-type fixtures with LED bulbs.

It's a three-level enclosed mall with arched support columns spaced
every 10m or so running up to the glass roof and the tops of each of the
pillars are ringed in maybe 50-100 of what were originally clear
envelope incandescent, replaced with clear envelope LED bulbs that have
the array of a dozen or so LEDs on the sides of a post inside.

For a while all was well I guess but whether it was due to using a batch
of lamps all from the same bad batch, or buying discount lamps in volume
from a dodgy mfgr (it was a lot  lamps to replace), or an
overheating/thermal problem due to their location up by the roof of the
structure, or a combination, one by one they started to fail and become
intermittent and flicker, eventually probably 25%-50% of the lamps were
flickering all down the whole length of the mall like a huge Christmas
display or German discotheque.

And it was just like that for a number of years as I'm sure nobody in
the management of this already-struggling mall wanted to shell out the
cost yet again to make it right.

About a 1 million square-foot-of-retail space mall that expanded into
the mid 1990s. Appropriately sized for the time, about 50% too large for
the available customer base in the area now considering eShopping. Too
large to maintain effectively given the revenue it's bringing in.

Which mall was that?


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Phil Allison]

bitrex wrote:

----------------

** Incandescent bulbs, under run by 25% in voltage and hence filament temp can last 5 years at 8 hours per night.



overheating/thermal problem due to their location up by the roof of the
structure, or a combination, one by one they started to fail and become
intermittent and flicker,

** I have seen overdriven red LEDs change brightness and voltage on a regular basis. They were in a Boogie guitar amplifier, a "Dual Rectifier Roaster".

Belonged to a young, gay woman who brought it back, new from the USA with her and it soon developed serious misbehaviour.

On advice, she took it to the local Boogie service agent who on a hunch replaced all the output tubes and handed it back. Unfixed, with a $300 bill.

Then it came to me to get really fixed, along with its hefty step-down tranny.

What it did was change volume and tone randomly while being used - wacky right ?

Soon discovered that the LEDs inside the many Vactecs were changing voltage regularly, with some very high readings or even going open.

Looking at the PCB I realised it did not follow the schem, but did follow the silk screening for the resistors feeding the Vactecs from the 5V DC rail.

Instead of 470, 680 and 1000 ohms, 47, 68 & 100 ohms were installed !!

So 30 to 50 mA flowing instead of 3 to 6mA.

I replaced the wrong Rs and fitted new LEDs into the same Vactecs for a total cure. Got a secret way for doing that.

The gay girl was not very pleased, cos she got another hefty bill from me - nearly all for my time.

Teach her to buy absurdly heavy, 120VAC amps in the USA co they are cheaper than out here. Then wind up with no warranty.



..... Phil

 

[bitrex]

On 11/11/19 9:44 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:

bitrex wrote...
bitrex wrote:

One of the surviving large shopping malls in the Boston suburban area
that was built in the late 1980s (all are struggling, some in better
locations limping along better than others that weren't and closed)
replaced some of its bulb-type fixtures with LED bulbs.

It's a three-level enclosed mall with arched support columns spaced
every 10m or so running up to the glass roof and the tops of each of the
pillars are ringed in maybe 50-100 of what were originally clear
envelope incandescent, replaced with clear envelope LED bulbs that have
the array of a dozen or so LEDs on the sides of a post inside.

For a while all was well I guess but whether it was due to using a batch
of lamps all from the same bad batch, or buying discount lamps in volume
from a dodgy mfgr (it was a lot  lamps to replace), or an
overheating/thermal problem due to their location up by the roof of the
structure, or a combination, one by one they started to fail and become
intermittent and flicker, eventually probably 25%-50% of the lamps were
flickering all down the whole length of the mall like a huge Christmas
display or German discotheque.

And it was just like that for a number of years as I'm sure nobody in
the management of this already-struggling mall wanted to shell out the
cost yet again to make it right.

About a 1 million square-foot-of-retail space mall that expanded into
the mid 1990s. Appropriately sized for the time, about 50% too large for
the available customer base in the area now considering eShopping. Too
large to maintain effectively given the revenue it's bringing in.

Which mall was that?

Emerald Square, down by the RI line in good ol' Attleboro, MA:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Square>

They eventually got around to replacing the malfunctioning bulbs.

I misremembered the architecture though the columns are straight and the
bulbs are all in these "channels" running up the side of sconce-like
flair at the top of the columns. The way they're channeled might have
something to do with the failures:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Square#/media/File:Emeraldsq.jpg>

Mall was built in 1989 and the big place for all the teeny-boppers in
the area in the 1990s. It's a bit tattered and tired since its heyday
with a number of vacant storefronts but hasn't completely closed,
though. A lot of it is women's clothing and shoe stores now which was
probably a prudent way to re-orient.

 

[bitrex]

On 11/11/19 10:12 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 11/11/19 9:44 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
bitrex wrote...
bitrex wrote:

One of the surviving large shopping malls in the Boston suburban area
that was built in the late 1980s (all are struggling, some in better
locations limping along better than others that weren't and closed)
replaced some of its bulb-type fixtures with LED bulbs.

It's a three-level enclosed mall with arched support columns spaced
every 10m or so running up to the glass roof and the tops of each of
the
pillars are ringed in maybe 50-100 of what were originally clear
envelope incandescent, replaced with clear envelope LED bulbs that have
the array of a dozen or so LEDs on the sides of a post inside.

For a while all was well I guess but whether it was due to using a
batch
of lamps all from the same bad batch, or buying discount lamps in
volume
from a dodgy mfgr (it was a lot  lamps to replace), or an
overheating/thermal problem due to their location up by the roof of the
structure, or a combination, one by one they started to fail and become
intermittent and flicker, eventually probably 25%-50% of the lamps were
flickering all down the whole length of the mall like a huge Christmas
display or German discotheque.

And it was just like that for a number of years as I'm sure nobody in
the management of this already-struggling mall wanted to shell out the
cost yet again to make it right.

About a 1 million square-foot-of-retail space mall that expanded into
the mid 1990s. Appropriately sized for the time, about 50% too large for
the available customer base in the area now considering eShopping. Too
large to maintain effectively given the revenue it's bringing in.

  Which mall was that?



Emerald Square, down by the RI line in good ol' Attleboro, MA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Square

They eventually got around to replacing the malfunctioning bulbs.

I misremembered the architecture though the columns are straight and the
bulbs are all in these "channels" running up the side of sconce-like
flair at the top of the columns. The way they're channeled might have
something to do with the failures:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Square#/media/File:Emeraldsq.jpg

Mall was built in 1989 and the big place for all the teeny-boppers in
the area in the 1990s. It's a bit tattered and tired since its heyday
with a number of vacant storefronts but hasn't completely closed,
though. A lot of it is women's clothing and shoe stores now which was
probably a prudent way to re-orient.

It's tried to keep up with the times a little, there's a charging
station there with all the connectors for every type of AC and DC fast
charging as far as I can tell. It's a little hard to find it's in the
rear on the ground floor of the mostly closed parking garage structure
from better times.

There's only one bay for Level 2 AC but it's all-you-can-drink and free
all the time.

 

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 09:59:00 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

It was named the Phoebus Cartel.

Phoebus
1. Greek Mythology Apollo, the god of the sun.
2. The sun.

"it engaged in large-scale planned obsolescence to generate repeated
sales and maximize profit."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

Mikek

But even so, it was a huge advance from candles and gas lamps.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Phil Allison]

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

-------------------------------------------

It was named the Phoebus Cartel.

Phoebus
1. Greek Mythology Apollo, the god of the sun.
2. The sun.

"it engaged in large-scale planned obsolescence to generate repeated
sales and maximize profit."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

Mikek

But even so, it was a huge advance from candles and gas lamps.

** One of JLs better non sequiturs.


...... Phil

 

[bitrex]

On 11/12/19 1:16 AM, bitrex wrote:

On 11/12/19 1:10 AM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 11/11/19 10:12 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 11/11/19 9:44 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
bitrex wrote...
bitrex wrote:

One of the surviving large shopping malls in the Boston suburban
area
that was built in the late 1980s (all are struggling, some in better
locations limping along better than others that weren't and closed)
replaced some of its bulb-type fixtures with LED bulbs.

It's a three-level enclosed mall with arched support columns spaced
every 10m or so running up to the glass roof and the tops of each
of the
pillars are ringed in maybe 50-100 of what were originally clear
envelope incandescent, replaced with clear envelope LED bulbs
that have
the array of a dozen or so LEDs on the sides of a post inside.

For a while all was well I guess but whether it was due to using
a batch
of lamps all from the same bad batch, or buying discount lamps in
volume
from a dodgy mfgr (it was a lot  lamps to replace), or an
overheating/thermal problem due to their location up by the roof
of the
structure, or a combination, one by one they started to fail and
become
intermittent and flicker, eventually probably 25%-50% of the
lamps were
flickering all down the whole length of the mall like a huge
Christmas
display or German discotheque.

And it was just like that for a number of years as I'm sure
nobody in
the management of this already-struggling mall wanted to shell
out the
cost yet again to make it right.

About a 1 million square-foot-of-retail space mall that expanded into
the mid 1990s. Appropriately sized for the time, about 50% too
large for
the available customer base in the area now considering eShopping.
Too
large to maintain effectively given the revenue it's bringing in.

  Which mall was that?



Emerald Square, down by the RI line in good ol' Attleboro, MA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Square

They eventually got around to replacing the malfunctioning bulbs.

I misremembered the architecture though the columns are straight and
the bulbs are all in these "channels" running up the side of
sconce-like flair at the top of the columns. The way they're
channeled might have something to do with the failures:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Square#/media/File:Emeraldsq.jpg


Mall was built in 1989 and the big place for all the teeny-boppers
in the area in the 1990s. It's a bit tattered and tired since its
heyday with a number of vacant storefronts but hasn't completely
closed, though. A lot of it is women's clothing and shoe stores now
which was probably a prudent way to re-orient.

It's tried to keep up with the times a little, there's a charging
station there with all the connectors for every type of AC and DC
fast charging as far as I can tell. It's a little hard to find it's
in the rear on the ground floor of the mostly closed parking garage
structure from better times.

There's only one bay for Level 2 AC but it's all-you-can-drink and
free all the time.
   tinstaffl

They give me a dollar's worth of electricity when I choose to come to
their fine establishment and I always spend at least $10 there, sounds
like a business model to me. I could always go some other place...

There's a fee for the super-duper speedy ones.

 

[bitrex]

On 11/12/19 1:10 AM, Robert Baer wrote:

bitrex wrote:
On 11/11/19 10:12 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 11/11/19 9:44 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
bitrex wrote...
bitrex wrote:

One of the surviving large shopping malls in the Boston suburban area
that was built in the late 1980s (all are struggling, some in better
locations limping along better than others that weren't and closed)
replaced some of its bulb-type fixtures with LED bulbs.

It's a three-level enclosed mall with arched support columns spaced
every 10m or so running up to the glass roof and the tops of each
of the
pillars are ringed in maybe 50-100 of what were originally clear
envelope incandescent, replaced with clear envelope LED bulbs that
have
the array of a dozen or so LEDs on the sides of a post inside.

For a while all was well I guess but whether it was due to using a
batch
of lamps all from the same bad batch, or buying discount lamps in
volume
from a dodgy mfgr (it was a lot  lamps to replace), or an
overheating/thermal problem due to their location up by the roof
of the
structure, or a combination, one by one they started to fail and
become
intermittent and flicker, eventually probably 25%-50% of the lamps
were
flickering all down the whole length of the mall like a huge
Christmas
display or German discotheque.

And it was just like that for a number of years as I'm sure nobody in
the management of this already-struggling mall wanted to shell out
the
cost yet again to make it right.

About a 1 million square-foot-of-retail space mall that expanded into
the mid 1990s. Appropriately sized for the time, about 50% too
large for
the available customer base in the area now considering eShopping. Too
large to maintain effectively given the revenue it's bringing in.

  Which mall was that?



Emerald Square, down by the RI line in good ol' Attleboro, MA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Square

They eventually got around to replacing the malfunctioning bulbs.

I misremembered the architecture though the columns are straight and
the bulbs are all in these "channels" running up the side of
sconce-like flair at the top of the columns. The way they're
channeled might have something to do with the failures:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Square#/media/File:Emeraldsq.jpg

Mall was built in 1989 and the big place for all the teeny-boppers in
the area in the 1990s. It's a bit tattered and tired since its heyday
with a number of vacant storefronts but hasn't completely closed,
though. A lot of it is women's clothing and shoe stores now which was
probably a prudent way to re-orient.

It's tried to keep up with the times a little, there's a charging
station there with all the connectors for every type of AC and DC fast
charging as far as I can tell. It's a little hard to find it's in the
rear on the ground floor of the mostly closed parking garage structure
from better times.

There's only one bay for Level 2 AC but it's all-you-can-drink and
free all the time.
  tinstaffl

They give me a dollar's worth of electricity when I choose to come to
their fine establishment and I always spend at least $10 there, sounds
like a business model to me. I could always go some other place...

 

[Robert Baer]

bitrex wrote:

On 11/11/19 10:59 AM, amdx wrote:
  It was named the Phoebus Cartel.

Phoebus
1. Greek Mythology Apollo, the god of the sun.
2. The sun.

"it engaged in large-scale planned obsolescence to generate repeated
sales and maximize profit."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

                               Mikek

I've wondered what type of lamps were used at the tops of radio masts
before LEDs. That's an expensive bulb-swap.
Halogen or arc.

 

[Robert Baer]

amdx wrote:

On 11/11/2019 2:05 PM, Martin Riddle wrote:
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 09:59:00 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

  It was named the Phoebus Cartel.

Phoebus
1. Greek Mythology Apollo, the god of the sun.
2. The sun.

"it engaged in large-scale planned obsolescence to generate repeated
sales and maximize profit."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

                               Mikek

I guess you weren't happy paying 0.50c a bulb?

Now you can get a LED buld for >$8, and Hope it lasts for more than a
few years. You do relize that half of the 20 year bulbs will not make
it past 10y.

And I hevent touched on the cheap <$3 bulbs...


Cheers


 Opps, I guess I better send this to where I thought I sent it.

 But, ya, I was never happy with the life of CFLs or LEDs. I doubt it
will get any better. Drive pcbs as cheap as they can be made.
                                         Mikek

The CFL business was an illegal disaster:
Forced sales of an inferior,more expensive, more costly, more
polluting product.
Lies abounded.