The Future Of Solar Power

[Dyna Soar]

Sylvia Else wrote:

Dyna Soar wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Dyna Soar wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Dyna Soar wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:

Most of the time when the sun is shining, there is not a huge
airconditiong demand.

Come and live in Perth (or many other places), you'll soon
realise that comment of yours is a load of bullshit.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_009225.shtml

Perhaps the sun doesn't shine much in Perth.

Oh, but it does...

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_009034.shtml

Perth's yearly average of daily hours of sunshine... 7.9
And for the summer months the average is over 10 hours a day

And just 'cause you can't get your act together searching Google,
doesn't stop your stupid remark from being bullshit. Also, you
(conveniently) ignored my "Perth (or many other places)"

Would seem by ordinary construction to mean that it includes Perth.
If you're using the Boolean construct OR, why mention Perth in the
first place?

Still the pedant I see. So, I typed "or" instead of "and". Big
deal, this isn't an algebra test. I'm quite sure, though, you knew
*exactly* what I meant.

You can't have it both ways. If you intended to include Perth then you
can't pretend the stats I pointed to aren't relevant.

You know bloody well I included Perth and why. You're just using another of
your usual bullshit excuses.
And what stats did you point to? You posted a link that was empty as far as
sunshine for Perth was concerned then made the stupid comment "Perhaps the
sun doesn't shine much in Perth".
Even if you had posted a link showing sunshine hours for Perth, you never
pointed to any relevancy for the information.

I mentioned Perth for two reasons.
Firstly, because that's where I live and I am familiar with its
air-conditioning needs.
Secondly, I'm told Perth has the highest average daily hours of
sunshine of any of the state capitals.

Surely even a pedantic, never wrong know-all like you should
realise that it's hotter when the sun is shining. When it's
hotter, more air-conditioning is needed.
Your backpedal on this should be interesting...

All the more so given that it's not going to be forthcoming. Did you
notice my use of the word "huge" up there? I didn't include it just
because I like it. It has relevance.

Bullshit, that's a typical back-pedal of yours.
Places (like Perth) with lots of sunshine do have "huge" demands for
electricity for air-conditioning.
We have problems with our local electrical supplier (Synergy)
keeping up demand for power during hot sun shining days,
particularly in summer. They blame that on the increase need to
supply energy for air-conditioning during these times.

The fact that there are times when there is a huge demand for
airconditioning is not disputed, and was not the point. The fact that
the sun is usually shining at such times is also not disputed, and is
also not the point.

Of course it's the point when answering your foolish comment, "Most of the
time when the sun is shining, there is not a huge airconditiong [sic]
demand."

The issue is whether that huge demand generally exists when the sun is
shining. That is, that the sun shining is a strong predictor of the
existence of a huge airconditioning load. Clearly, it isn't. So there
is a lot of time when the sun is shining and the huge airconditioning
load does not exist. At such times the solar power generators would
either have to be idle, or be displacing other generation capacity.

**Yawn** Keep repeating your bullshit, you may even get to believe it
yourself,

Why don't you go somewhere, take your clothes off and scare the
locals... <g

How about in your back garden?

Spew...
You'd probably want to come inside into the air-conditioning to cool
down,

Only if it's hot.

Just look to see if the sun is shining...

You're still, as usual, attempting to justify yourself by the use of
semantics. Why don't you, just for once, admit you were wrong. It really
doesn't hurt one's reputation to admit mistakes, in fact an admission can
have positive results.

--
Dyna

All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Dyna Soar wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
Dyna Soar wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Dyna Soar wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Dyna Soar wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:

Most of the time when the sun is shining, there is not a huge
airconditiong demand.

Come and live in Perth (or many other places), you'll soon
realise that comment of yours is a load of bullshit.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_009225.shtml

Perhaps the sun doesn't shine much in Perth.

Oh, but it does...

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_009034.shtml

Perth's yearly average of daily hours of sunshine... 7.9
And for the summer months the average is over 10 hours a day

And just 'cause you can't get your act together searching Google,
doesn't stop your stupid remark from being bullshit. Also, you
(conveniently) ignored my "Perth (or many other places)"

Would seem by ordinary construction to mean that it includes Perth.
If you're using the Boolean construct OR, why mention Perth in the
first place?

Still the pedant I see. So, I typed "or" instead of "and". Big
deal, this isn't an algebra test. I'm quite sure, though, you knew
*exactly* what I meant.

You can't have it both ways. If you intended to include Perth then you
can't pretend the stats I pointed to aren't relevant.

You know bloody well I included Perth and why. You're just using another of
your usual bullshit excuses.

Do you want Perth included, or not? The stats I posted related to Perth.

And what stats did you point to? You posted a link that was empty as far as
sunshine for Perth was concerned then made the stupid comment "Perhaps the
sun doesn't shine much in Perth".
Even if you had posted a link showing sunshine hours for Perth, you never
pointed to any relevancy for the information.

The point of the stats is that there are clearly significant periods of
time in Perth when the temperatures are not high enough for people to be
wanting to run airconditing to an extent that represents a huge demand.

As you observed, and as I had already noticed, the stats for sunshine
were missing, which left open two possibilities. One was that it's not
always that hot when the sun is shining. The other was that the the sun
doesn't shine for those significant periods.

I mentioned Perth for two reasons.
Firstly, because that's where I live and I am familiar with its
air-conditioning needs.
Secondly, I'm told Perth has the highest average daily hours of
sunshine of any of the state capitals.

Surely even a pedantic, never wrong know-all like you should
realise that it's hotter when the sun is shining. When it's
hotter, more air-conditioning is needed.
Your backpedal on this should be interesting...

All the more so given that it's not going to be forthcoming. Did you
notice my use of the word "huge" up there? I didn't include it just
because I like it. It has relevance.

Bullshit, that's a typical back-pedal of yours.
Places (like Perth) with lots of sunshine do have "huge" demands for
electricity for air-conditioning.
We have problems with our local electrical supplier (Synergy)
keeping up demand for power during hot sun shining days,
particularly in summer. They blame that on the increase need to
supply energy for air-conditioning during these times.

The fact that there are times when there is a huge demand for
airconditioning is not disputed, and was not the point. The fact that
the sun is usually shining at such times is also not disputed, and is
also not the point.

Of course it's the point when answering your foolish comment, "Most of the
time when the sun is shining, there is not a huge airconditiong [sic]
demand."

I'm at a complete loss to see why you should think it's the point. It
may be true that when it's hot, the sun is shining, but that doesn't
mean that when the sun is shining, it's hot.

To contradict my position that most of the time when the sun is shining
there is not a huge airconditioning load, you have to show that there is
usually is such a load when the sun is shining. Showing that there are
times when there's a huge airconditioning load and the sun is shining
doesn't cut it.

According to the BOM, today's anticipated maximum temperature in Perth
is 27. They also say it will be fine, so presumably the sun will be
shining. At a maximum of 27, there will not be a huge airconditioning
load. Most people won't even turn it on.

Sylvia.

 

[Davo]

Sylvia Else wrote:

terryc wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:02:43 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

It will only get built with huge public subsidies,

Name a form of power generation that hasn't received similar?




Coal, gas. These generators are expected to pay for themselves.
Governments that have paid for them routinely extract revenues from them.

Don't confuse the use of public money to capitalise a generator with a
subsidy. They are different things. A subsidy occurs when the investment
cannot yield a return sufficient to justify it. Solar power is a good
example.

Sylvia.

Verve Energy, Western Australias biggest coal fired generator is another
good example. Forced by the government to sell its power for less than
the cost of production it has run up a debt of over $700 million. The
government has no choice but to bail it out eventually. It'll be
interesting to see if solar companies also get a $700 million handout.

 

[Dyna Soar]

kreed wrote:

"Dyna Soar" wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Most of the time when the sun is shining, there is not a huge
airconditiong demand.

Come and live in Perth (or many other places), you'll soon realise
that comment of yours is a load of bullshit.

In my situation, the humidity (and in the last couple of days) over
summer means that the air con runs just as much at night, even if the
temperature itself isn't so hot, the humidity makes it unbearable.
Night is a bit better but doesn't improve very much overall.

Ironically it isn't used as much during the day as often there is no
one home.

Of course there are different circumstances depending on location and the
individuals life style.

My point was to show the foolishness of Ms Else's blanket statement, "Most
of the time when the sun is shining, there is not a huge airconditiong [sic]
demand." That sure doesn't apply to Perth *AND* many other places.

--
Dyna

All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged.

 

[kreed]

On Oct 14, 6:20 pm, "Dyna Soar"
<dynasoar..REMOVE..THI...@ozdebate.com> wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
Most of the time when the sun is shining, there is not a huge
airconditiong demand.

Come and live in Perth (or many other places), you'll soon realise that
comment of yours is a load of bullshit.

In my situation, the humidity (and in the last couple of days) over
summer means that the air con runs just as much at night, even if the
temperature itself isn't so hot, the humidity makes it unbearable.
Night is a bit better but doesn't improve very much overall.

Ironically it isn't used as much during the day as often there is no
one home.

--
Dyna

All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Davo wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
terryc wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:02:43 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

It will only get built with huge public subsidies,

Name a form of power generation that hasn't received similar?




Coal, gas. These generators are expected to pay for themselves.
Governments that have paid for them routinely extract revenues from them.

Don't confuse the use of public money to capitalise a generator with a
subsidy. They are different things. A subsidy occurs when the
investment cannot yield a return sufficient to justify it. Solar power
is a good example.

Sylvia.

Verve Energy, Western Australias biggest coal fired generator is another
good example. Forced by the government to sell its power for less than
the cost of production it has run up a debt of over $700 million. The
government has no choice but to bail it out eventually. It'll be
interesting to see if solar companies also get a $700 million handout.

WA seems to have got itself into something of a mess, but the money is
not being given to Verve. It is a direct subsidy to consumers, delivered
via Synergy. Verve will get the lion's share, but only because it
generates most of the power. In particular, it is a technology neutral
subsidy passed to generators simply in proportion to the energy
delivered. Clearly, WA should put its retail prices up.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Dyna Soar wrote:

kreed wrote:
"Dyna Soar" wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Most of the time when the sun is shining, there is not a huge
airconditiong demand.

Come and live in Perth (or many other places), you'll soon realise
that comment of yours is a load of bullshit.

In my situation, the humidity (and in the last couple of days) over
summer means that the air con runs just as much at night, even if the
temperature itself isn't so hot, the humidity makes it unbearable.
Night is a bit better but doesn't improve very much overall.

Ironically it isn't used as much during the day as often there is no
one home.

Of course there are different circumstances depending on location and the
individuals life style.

My point was to show the foolishness of Ms Else's blanket statement, "Most
of the time when the sun is shining, there is not a huge airconditiong [sic]
demand." That sure doesn't apply to Perth *AND* many other places.

You have yet to demonstrate that it doesn't apply to Perth. Is the sun
shining today? Is there a huge airconditioning load?

Sylvia.

 

[Davo]

Sylvia Else wrote:

Davo wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
terryc wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:02:43 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

It will only get built with huge public subsidies,

Name a form of power generation that hasn't received similar?




Coal, gas. These generators are expected to pay for themselves.
Governments that have paid for them routinely extract revenues from
them.

Don't confuse the use of public money to capitalise a generator with
a subsidy. They are different things. A subsidy occurs when the
investment cannot yield a return sufficient to justify it. Solar
power is a good example.

Sylvia.

Verve Energy, Western Australias biggest coal fired generator is
another good example. Forced by the government to sell its power for
less than the cost of production it has run up a debt of over $700
million. The government has no choice but to bail it out eventually.
It'll be interesting to see if solar companies also get a $700 million
handout.

WA seems to have got itself into something of a mess, but the money is
not being given to Verve. It is a direct subsidy to consumers, delivered
via Synergy. Verve will get the lion's share, but only because it
generates most of the power. In particular, it is a technology neutral
subsidy passed to generators simply in proportion to the energy
delivered. Clearly, WA should put its retail prices up.

Sylvia.

You're wrong, money is given directly to Verve to cover its interest
payments. Prior to these silly conditions, Western Power, which used to
encompass Verve before it was broken up, used to pay good royalties to
the state government. Now the situation is reversed with the state
government having to pour in huge sums of money to keep Verve afloat.

The grid typically operates at about half of its capacity with the rest
of the plant sitting idle, only being used on hot summer days. Anyone
that doesn't understand this clearly has his head stuck in the sand.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Davo wrote:

The grid typically operates at about half of its capacity with the rest
of the plant sitting idle, only being used on hot summer days. Anyone
that doesn't understand this clearly has his head stuck in the sand.

Of course. How is that relevant?

Sylvia.

 

[Davo]

Sylvia Else wrote:

Davo wrote:

The grid typically operates at about half of its capacity with the
rest of the plant sitting idle, only being used on hot summer days.
Anyone that doesn't understand this clearly has his head stuck in the
sand.

Of course. How is that relevant?

Sylvia.

You've clearly got your head stuck in the sand over air conditioner use
in Western Australia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Davo wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
Davo wrote:

The grid typically operates at about half of its capacity with the
rest of the plant sitting idle, only being used on hot summer days.
Anyone that doesn't understand this clearly has his head stuck in the
sand.

Of course. How is that relevant?

Sylvia.

You've clearly got your head stuck in the sand over air conditioner use
in Western Australia.

Even if that were true, the question remains that of how the utilisation
of capacity would be relevant.

Sylvia.

 

[Davo]

Sylvia Else wrote:

Davo wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Davo wrote:

The grid typically operates at about half of its capacity with the
rest of the plant sitting idle, only being used on hot summer days.
Anyone that doesn't understand this clearly has his head stuck in
the sand.

Of course. How is that relevant?

Sylvia.

You've clearly got your head stuck in the sand over air conditioner
use in Western Australia.

Even if that were true, the question remains that of how the utilisation
of capacity would be relevant.

Sylvia.

You've been told several times before. It's a waste of time discussing
this with you.

 

[Dyna Soar]

Sylvia Else wrote:

More of her usual bullshit snipped...

According to the BOM, today's anticipated maximum temperature in Perth
is 27. They also say it will be fine, so presumably the sun will be
shining. At a maximum of 27, there will not be a huge airconditioning
load. Most people won't even turn it on.

Bloody hell it that the best you can do? Aristotle knew more than you. "One
swallow does not a summer make."

I'm just back from having lunch at the local pub (it's 2:30 ish here). Had
a chat to the publican about the air-conditioning. It's been running on
cooling since he opened this morning.
And even more so tomorrow and Saturday when it's forecast to be 29 and 34
respectively.

Anyway, there's nothing further to be gained by my talking to a stubborn
fool like you any longer.
Bye. You can reply and dig your hole deeper of course, I wont be
responding.

--
Dyna

All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged.

 

[Dyna Soar]

Davo wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
Davo wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Davo wrote:

The grid typically operates at about half of its capacity with the
rest of the plant sitting idle, only being used on hot summer
days. Anyone that doesn't understand this clearly has his head
stuck in the sand.

Of course. How is that relevant?

You've clearly got your head stuck in the sand over air conditioner
use in Western Australia.

Even if that were true, the question remains that of how the
utilisation of capacity would be relevant.

You've been told several times before. It's a waste of time discussing
this with you.

Precisely.
I'm so longer responding to her bullshit and self justification.

--
Dyna

All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Dyna Soar wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:

More of her usual bullshit snipped...

According to the BOM, today's anticipated maximum temperature in Perth
is 27. They also say it will be fine, so presumably the sun will be
shining. At a maximum of 27, there will not be a huge airconditioning
load. Most people won't even turn it on.

Bloody hell it that the best you can do? Aristotle knew more than you. "One
swallow does not a summer make."

Well, I provided a link to temperatures through the year, but you chose
not to understand it.

I'm just back from having lunch at the local pub (it's 2:30 ish here). Had
a chat to the publican about the air-conditioning. It's been running on
cooling since he opened this morning.
And even more so tomorrow and Saturday when it's forecast to be 29 and 34
respectively.

And that's a huge airconditioning load because....?

Sylvia

 

[terryc]

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:05:03 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

terryc wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:02:43 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

It will only get built with huge public subsidies,

Name a form of power generation that hasn't received similar?

Coal, gas. These generators are expected to pay for themselves.

Lol, you didn't even make any attempt to refute my point. You are on a
different planet from the start.

 

[Mr.T]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:004819e0$0$1365$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

And even more so tomorrow and Saturday when it's forecast to be 29 and
34
respectively.

And that's a huge airconditioning load because....?

Because too many people like it cooler in summer, and hotter in winter than
what more reasonable people can live with unfortunately.

MrT.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Mr.T wrote:

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:004819e0$0$1365$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
And even more so tomorrow and Saturday when it's forecast to be 29 and
34
respectively.
And that's a huge airconditioning load because....?

Because too many people like it cooler in summer, and hotter in winter than
what more reasonable people can live with unfortunately.

MrT.

No, I meant why deos the running of a pub airconditioner during mild
weather represent a huge airconditioning load? The power requirements
for air conditioning are a function of temperature difference between
inside and outside.

Sylvia.

 

[kreed]

On Oct 15, 5:26 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:

Dyna Soar wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:

More of her usual bullshit snipped...

According to the BOM, today's anticipated maximum temperature in Perth
is 27. They also say it will be fine, so presumably the sun will be
shining. At a maximum of 27, there will not be a huge airconditioning
load. Most people won't even turn it on.

Bloody hell it that the best you can do? Aristotle knew more than you. "One
swallow does not a summer make."

Well, I provided a link to temperatures through the year, but you chose
not to understand it.



I'm just back from having lunch at the local pub (it's 2:30 ish here). Had
a chat to the publican about the air-conditioning. It's been running on
cooling since he opened this morning.
And even more so tomorrow and Saturday when it's forecast to be 29 and 34
respectively.

And that's a huge airconditioning load because....?

Sylvia

Think of all the heat producing stuff in a pub, refrigeration units,
lots of people, probably a kitchen running, usually have lots of
plasmas these days, especially for the TAB gear, probably several
PC's ..........
Air con would be inefficient there compared to a home as people are
always coming in and out, constantly opening doors.

You would probably need to turn on the air con even when it isn't that
hot outside, just to get rid of all the electrically generated heat
inside.

This would apply to just about any commercial premises, shopping
centres etc.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xHMAm.2731$cL1.2364@newsfe20.iad...
A few extra bucks to track rogue asteroids and comets might be well worth
our while.

Since we can do nothing if we find one, why bother?

What do you mean nothing? Phil will rant and curse at it, while
Sloman will try to bore it to death. Terryc and Sylvia will try to
confuse it into a new path with endless double talk, while the trolls
scream and run in circles. The madman frog will predict that only
Australia will be hit.

--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary!