The Biden Administration is winging it about electrification...

On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 1:10:19 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill.....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
snip
Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It\'s perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance links to let you average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there.

LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

snip

The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there\'s some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn\'t be able to understand it if I could find a link to one of them.

As they are here, but there is a big problem (https://www.wsj..com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

\"The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with greater frequency over the past two decades, in part because the grid has become more vulnerable to failure with age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by climate change. A push to electrify home heating and cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may increase power demand in coming years, putting further pressure on the system.\"

This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic blackout on Jan 8, 2021 (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-chaotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-europe-wide-blackout/):
But didn\'t.

The people who sell the power into the retail market want to put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power don\'t have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity, or the money to keep it maintained when it isn\'t generating power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is great when you need it, and expensive when you don\'t, which is most of the time.

You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it seriously, because you are too dim to understand what\'s going on.

I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about Joe Biden\'s federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and create more generation capacity

Were we talking about that?

HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.

before I explain the simple reason he can\'t. Hint: he hasn\'t produced it because it DOESN\'T EXIST!

Why should it? The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn\'t a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn\'t know enough to have noticed.

https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation business, Dick Tracy.

Tennesse Valley Authority

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant he is.

From your reference:

\"TVA receives no taxpayer funding and operates similarly to a private for-profit company.\"
Click to expand...

It doesn\'t now. \"Never\" is a claim that it never did.

> So, NO, the US government ISN\'T in the electricity generation \"business.\"

It isn\'t now. My claim was \"The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly.\"

The UK started off with privately owned power generation, found - back in Victorian times - that it didn\'t work, and moved to municipal utilities before eventually moving on to a National Grid. Thatcher got around to privatising that in 1990. It was a mistake, but Gnatguy won\'t be able to work out why.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_(Great_Britain)

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 8:32:30 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 1:10:19 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee..org wrote:
On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill.....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
snip
Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It\'s perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance links to let you average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there.

LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

snip

The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there\'s some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn\'t be able to understand it if I could find a link to one of them.

As they are here, but there is a big problem (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

\"The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with greater frequency over the past two decades, in part because the grid has become more vulnerable to failure with age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by climate change. A push to electrify home heating and cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may increase power demand in coming years, putting further pressure on the system.\"

This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic blackout on Jan 8, 2021 (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-chaotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-europe-wide-blackout/):
But didn\'t.

The people who sell the power into the retail market want to put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power don\'t have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity, or the money to keep it maintained when it isn\'t generating power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is great when you need it, and expensive when you don\'t, which is most of the time..

You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it seriously, because you are too dim to understand what\'s going on.

I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about Joe Biden\'s federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and create more generation capacity

Were we talking about that?

HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.

before I explain the simple reason he can\'t. Hint: he hasn\'t produced it because it DOESN\'T EXIST!

Why should it? The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn\'t a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn\'t know enough to have noticed.

https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation business, Dick Tracy.

Tennesse Valley Authority

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant he is.

From your reference:

\"TVA receives no taxpayer funding and operates similarly to a private for-profit company.\"
It doesn\'t now. \"Never\" is a claim that it never did.
So, NO, the US government ISN\'T in the electricity generation \"business..\"
It isn\'t now. My claim was \"The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly.\"

The UK started off with privately owned power generation, found - back in Victorian times - that it didn\'t work, and moved to municipal utilities before eventually moving on to a National Grid. Thatcher got around to privatising that in 1990. It was a mistake, but Gnatguy won\'t be able to work out why.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_(Great_Britain)

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Click to expand...

Hey SNIPPERMAN, none of this matters because the US government has NO AUTHORITY in the area of electricity generation or transmission, and Lyin\' Biden\'s token scraps thrown at the industry will have NO IMPACT on the system availability or reliability. Yet he proposes throwing whole new classes of loads onto an already OVERLOADED system.
 
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:59:49 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 8:32:30 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

... My claim was \"The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly.\"

The UK started off with privately owned power generation, found - back in Victorian times - that it didn\'t work, and moved to municipal utilities before eventually moving on to a National Grid. Thatcher got around to privatising that in 1990. It was a mistake, but Gnatguy won\'t be able to work out why.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_(Great_Britain)

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Hey SNIPPERMAN, none of this matters because the US government has NO AUTHORITY in the area of electricity generation or transmission...
Click to expand...

False, of course; interstate commerce is completely in US authority, as is some large amount
of land use in the various national lands (not just parks, lots of land is under federal jurisdiction).
Federal government operates a number of energy facilities.
 
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 10:11:59 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:59:49 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 8:32:30 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
... My claim was \"The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly.\"

The UK started off with privately owned power generation, found - back in Victorian times - that it didn\'t work, and moved to municipal utilities before eventually moving on to a National Grid. Thatcher got around to privatising that in 1990. It was a mistake, but Gnatguy won\'t be able to work out why.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_(Great_Britain)

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Hey SNIPPERMAN, none of this matters because the US government has NO AUTHORITY in the area of electricity generation or transmission...

False, of course; interstate commerce is completely in US authority, as is some large amount
of land use in the various national lands (not just parks, lots of land is under federal jurisdiction).
Federal government operates a number of energy facilities.
Click to expand...

No, you\'re false. Show me statutes which grant the Feds authority in electricity generation and production. They have no more authority in this area than they do to produce cars and trucks. They can REGULATE it, but can\'t PARTICIPATE in it.
 
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 10:16:45 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 10:11:59 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:59:49 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 8:32:30 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
... My claim was \"The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly.\"

The UK started off with privately owned power generation, found - back in Victorian times - that it didn\'t work, and moved to municipal utilities before eventually moving on to a National Grid. Thatcher got around to privatising that in 1990. It was a mistake, but Gnatguy won\'t be able to work out why.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_(Great_Britain)

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Hey SNIPPERMAN, none of this matters because the US government has NO AUTHORITY in the area of electricity generation or transmission...

False, of course; interstate commerce is completely in US authority, as is some large amount
of land use in the various national lands (not just parks, lots of land is under federal jurisdiction).
Federal government operates a number of energy facilities.
No, you\'re false. Show me statutes which grant the Feds authority in electricity generation and production. They have no more authority in this area than they do to produce cars and trucks. They can REGULATE it, but can\'t PARTICIPATE in it.
Click to expand...

Don\'t be silly; anyone with a generator flashlight has the authority to generate electricity;
federal branches like bureau of mines do so (I\'ve worked at facilities that got power from
those sources, as part of a federal grant...). What they don\'t participate in, is power
MARKETING, as a competitor to profit-making businesses.

Rights-of-way for interstate power lines often involve federal, not just state or local, legal protection.
 
On 08/06/2022 09:10 PM, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
snip
Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It\'s perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance links to let you average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there.

LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

snip

The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there\'s some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn\'t be able to understand it if I could find a link to one of them.

As they are here, but there is a big problem (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

\"The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with greater frequency over the past two decades, in part because the grid has become more vulnerable to failure with age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by climate change. A push to electrify home heating and cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may increase power demand in coming years, putting further pressure on the system.\"

This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic blackout on Jan 8, 2021 (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-chaotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-europe-wide-blackout/):
But didn\'t.

The people who sell the power into the retail market want to put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power don\'t have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity, or the money to keep it maintained when it isn\'t generating power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is great when you need it, and expensive when you don\'t, which is most of the time.

You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it seriously, because you are too dim to understand what\'s going on.

I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about Joe Biden\'s federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and create more generation capacity

Were we talking about that?
HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.
before I explain the simple reason he can\'t. Hint: he hasn\'t produced it because it DOESN\'T EXIST!
Why should it? The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn\'t a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn\'t know enough to have noticed.

https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize
The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation business, Dick Tracy.
Tennesse Valley Authority

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant he is.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

From your reference:

\"TVA receives no taxpayer funding and operates similarly to a private for-profit company.\"

So, NO, the US government ISN\'T in the electricity generation \"business.\"
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Power_Administration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Coulee_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dalles_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Day_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNary_Dam

There are 8 other dams on the Snake operated by either the Corp of
Engineers or the Bureau of Reclamation.
 
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in
news:jl92kqFh481U1@mid.individual.net:

On 08/06/2022 09:10 PM, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org
wrote:
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy
wrote:
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy
wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy
wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy
wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10,
Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10,
Flyguy wrote:
snip
Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their
unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable
power supply, even YOU!

Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power
generation schemes that you are used to. It\'s perfectly
reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you
do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and
long distance links to let you average out from day to
night and between cloudy days here and there.

LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

snip

The various Australian electricity generating companies
are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar
farms. Presumably there\'s some kind of plan involved, but
it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn\'t be
able to understand it if I could find a link to one of
them.

As they are here, but there is a big problem
(https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-
grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

\"The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints
comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of
the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with
greater frequency over the past two decades, in part
because the grid has become more vulnerable to failure with
age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by
climate change. A push to electrify home heating and
cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may
increase power demand in coming years, putting further
pressure on the system.\"

This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the
outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic
blackout on Jan 8, 2021
(https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-c
haotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-europe-wide-blac
kout/):
But didn\'t.

The people who sell the power into the retail market want to
put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in
excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power
don\'t have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity,
or the money to keep it maintained when it isn\'t generating
power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is
great when you need it, and expensive when you don\'t, which
is most of the time.

You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it
seriously, because you are too dim to understand what\'s
going on.

I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about
Joe Biden\'s federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and
create more generation capacity

Were we talking about that?
HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.
before I explain the simple reason he can\'t. Hint: he hasn\'t
produced it because it DOESN\'T EXIST!
Why should it? The US government got out of electricity
generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural
monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn\'t
a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn\'t know enough to have noticed.

https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-
president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize
The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation
business, Dick Tracy.
Tennesse Valley Authority

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant
he is.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

From your reference:

\"TVA receives no taxpayer funding and operates similarly to a
private for-profit company.\"

So, NO, the US government ISN\'T in the electricity generation
\"business.\"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Power_Administration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Coulee_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dalles_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Day_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNary_Dam

There are 8 other dams on the Snake operated by either the Corp of
Engineers or the Bureau of Reclamation.
Click to expand...

Yes. And the BPA also operates the biggest HV DC interlink in the
US. 4MV. 3100 MegaWatts. 846 miles.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_DC_Intertie>
 
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 11:06:39 PM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote in
news:jl92kq...@mid.individual.net:
On 08/06/2022 09:10 PM, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org
wrote:
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy
wrote:
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy
wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy
wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy
wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10,
Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10,
Flyguy wrote:
snip
Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their
unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable
power supply, even YOU!

Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power
generation schemes that you are used to. It\'s perfectly
reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you
do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and
long distance links to let you average out from day to
night and between cloudy days here and there.

LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

snip

The various Australian electricity generating companies
are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar
farms. Presumably there\'s some kind of plan involved, but
it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn\'t be
able to understand it if I could find a link to one of
them.

As they are here, but there is a big problem
(https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-
grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

\"The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints
comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of
the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with
greater frequency over the past two decades, in part
because the grid has become more vulnerable to failure with
age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by
climate change. A push to electrify home heating and
cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may
increase power demand in coming years, putting further
pressure on the system.\"

This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the
outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic
blackout on Jan 8, 2021
(https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-c
haotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-europe-wide-blac
kout/):
But didn\'t.

The people who sell the power into the retail market want to
put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in
excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power
don\'t have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity,
or the money to keep it maintained when it isn\'t generating
power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is
great when you need it, and expensive when you don\'t, which
is most of the time.

You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it
seriously, because you are too dim to understand what\'s
going on.

I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about
Joe Biden\'s federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and
create more generation capacity

Were we talking about that?
HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.
before I explain the simple reason he can\'t. Hint: he hasn\'t
produced it because it DOESN\'T EXIST!
Why should it? The US government got out of electricity
generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural
monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn\'t
a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn\'t know enough to have noticed.

https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-
president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize
The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation
business, Dick Tracy.
Tennesse Valley Authority

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant
he is.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

From your reference:

\"TVA receives no taxpayer funding and operates similarly to a
private for-profit company.\"

So, NO, the US government ISN\'T in the electricity generation
\"business.\"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Power_Administration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Coulee_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dalles_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Day_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNary_Dam

There are 8 other dams on the Snake operated by either the Corp of
Engineers or the Bureau of Reclamation.


Yes. And the BPA also operates the biggest HV DC interlink in the
US. 4MV. 3100 MegaWatts. 846 miles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_DC_Intertie
Click to expand...

ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no Administration, including Lyin\' Biden\'s, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
\"The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest.\"
The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO. AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.
 
On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no Administration, including Lyin\' Biden\'s, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
\"The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest.\"
The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO. AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.
Click to expand...

Nice save from \'So, NO, the US government ISN\'T in the electricity
generation \"business.\"\'

The electricity powering this computer is contracted from the BPA from
the electric co-op of which I am a member. The co-op goes back to the
REA (Rural Electrification Administration) formed in 1935. Yeah, it\'s
all legacy but it lives on. fwiw the REA was created by an EO of Roosevelt.

It worked well when deregulation was all the rage. Montana Power
immediately sold its generation capacity to out of state firms and
reinvented itself as a telecommunications company just in time to go
bankrupt in the dotcom bust. Rates went up drastically driving out
several energy intensive businesses like aluminum smelters. Since the
co-op is linked to the BPA my rates stayed stable.



BTW, Hoover Dam is also run by the Bureau of Reclamation and Congress
directly authorizes the contracts.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-1999-title43-chapter12A-subchapter3&edition=1999

The current contracts are extended to 2067. It\'s a good thing the
distribution is in percents. Reclamation saved the bacon in 2017 with
new wide head turbines but I don\'t know if they have any more rabbits in
the hat as Mead dries up.
 
On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no Administration, including Lyin\' Biden\'s, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
\"The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest.\"
The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO. AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS..
Nice save from \'So, NO, the US government ISN\'T in the electricity
generation \"business.\"\'

The electricity powering this computer is contracted from the BPA from
the electric co-op of which I am a member. The co-op goes back to the
REA (Rural Electrification Administration) formed in 1935. Yeah, it\'s
all legacy but it lives on. fwiw the REA was created by an EO of Roosevelt.

It worked well when deregulation was all the rage. Montana Power
immediately sold its generation capacity to out of state firms and
reinvented itself as a telecommunications company just in time to go
bankrupt in the dotcom bust. Rates went up drastically driving out
several energy intensive businesses like aluminum smelters. Since the
co-op is linked to the BPA my rates stayed stable.



BTW, Hoover Dam is also run by the Bureau of Reclamation and Congress
directly authorizes the contracts.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-1999-title43-chapter12A-subchapter3&edition=1999

The current contracts are extended to 2067. It\'s a good thing the
distribution is in percents. Reclamation saved the bacon in 2017 with
new wide head turbines but I don\'t know if they have any more rabbits in
the hat as Mead dries up.
Click to expand...

BPA, TVA and the like are federal AGENCIES. They are entities that are authorized to operate by the US government to perform specific functions, but ARE NOT the government. Their charter is limited by law. For example, BPA can (and does) sell power to CA, but they can\'t issue bonds and build a new power plant in CA.

The ENTIRE POINT of this thread is that Lyin\' Biden is using all means possible to outlaw carbon-fueled vehicles, but has NO PLAN (and certainly NO AUTHORITY) to expand and modernize the electrical grid to accommodate the EV vehicles that will replace them. If they did have the authority you can bet that they would have exercised it. This is putting people\'s lives and livelihoods in danger, but the libtards DON\'T CARE!
 
On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 7:25:43 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 11:06:39 PM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote in
news:jl92kq...@mid.individual.net:
On 08/06/2022 09:10 PM, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org
wrote:
On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy
wrote:
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy
wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy
wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy
wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10,
Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7,
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10,
Flyguy wrote:
snip
Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their
unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable
power supply, even YOU!

Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power
generation schemes that you are used to. It\'s perfectly
reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you
do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and
long distance links to let you average out from day to
night and between cloudy days here and there.

LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

snip

The various Australian electricity generating companies
are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar
farms. Presumably there\'s some kind of plan involved, but
it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn\'t be
able to understand it if I could find a link to one of
them.

As they are here, but there is a big problem
(https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-
grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

\"The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints
comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of
the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with
greater frequency over the past two decades, in part
because the grid has become more vulnerable to failure with
age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by
climate change. A push to electrify home heating and
cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may
increase power demand in coming years, putting further
pressure on the system.\"

This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the
outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic
blackout on Jan 8, 2021
(https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-c
haotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-europe-wide-blac
kout/):
But didn\'t.

The people who sell the power into the retail market want to
put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in
excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power
don\'t have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity,
or the money to keep it maintained when it isn\'t generating
power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is
great when you need it, and expensive when you don\'t, which
is most of the time.

You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it
seriously, because you are too dim to understand what\'s
going on.

I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about
Joe Biden\'s federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and
create more generation capacity

Were we talking about that?
HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.
before I explain the simple reason he can\'t. Hint: he hasn\'t
produced it because it DOESN\'T EXIST!
Why should it? The US government got out of electricity
generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural
monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn\'t
a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn\'t know enough to have noticed.

https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-
president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize
The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation
business, Dick Tracy.
Tennesse Valley Authority

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant
he is.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

From your reference:

\"TVA receives no taxpayer funding and operates similarly to a
private for-profit company.\"

So, NO, the US government ISN\'T in the electricity generation
\"business.\"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Power_Administration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Coulee_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dalles_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Day_Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNary_Dam

There are 8 other dams on the Snake operated by either the Corp of
Engineers or the Bureau of Reclamation.


Yes. And the BPA also operates the biggest HV DC interlink in the
US. 4MV. 3100 MegaWatts. 846 miles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_DC_Intertie

ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no Administration, including Joe Biden\'s, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
\"The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest.\"
The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO.
Click to expand...

Gnatguy\'s appreciation of practical reality is zero. People have been looking for potential hydroelectric projects for at least a century now, and all the low hanging fruit has been plucked. There are other ways of generating power that are renewable - solar power is going to keep on working for the next billions years or so - but Gnatguy doesn\'t appreciate this.

> AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/wpps-municipal-bond-default-whoops.asp

American firms don\'t have to be incompetent. Gnatguy isn\'t representative.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no Administration, including Joe Biden\'s, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
\"The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest.\"
The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO. AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.
Nice save from \'So, NO, the US government ISN\'T in the electricity
generation \"business.\"\'

The electricity powering this computer is contracted from the BPA from
the electric co-op of which I am a member. The co-op goes back to the
REA (Rural Electrification Administration) formed in 1935. Yeah, it\'s
all legacy but it lives on. fwiw the REA was created by an EO of Roosevelt.

It worked well when deregulation was all the rage. Montana Power
immediately sold its generation capacity to out of state firms and
reinvented itself as a telecommunications company just in time to go
bankrupt in the dotcom bust. Rates went up drastically driving out
several energy intensive businesses like aluminum smelters. Since the
co-op is linked to the BPA my rates stayed stable.

BTW, Hoover Dam is also run by the Bureau of Reclamation and Congress
directly authorizes the contracts.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-1999-title43-chapter12A-subchapter3&edition=1999

The current contracts are extended to 2067. It\'s a good thing the
distribution is in percents. Reclamation saved the bacon in 2017 with
new wide head turbines but I don\'t know if they have any more rabbits in
the hat as Mead dries up.

BPA, TVA and the like are federal AGENCIES. They are entities that are authorized to operate by the US government to perform specific functions, but ARE NOT the government. Their charter is limited by law. For example, BPA can (and does) sell power to CA, but they can\'t issue bonds and build a new power plant in CA.

The ENTIRE POINT of this thread is that Joe Biden is using all means possible to outlaw carbon-fueled vehicles, but has NO PLAN (and certainly NO AUTHORITY) to expand and modernize the electrical grid to accommodate the EV vehicles that will replace them.
Click to expand...

No plan that Gnatguy can understand. He certainly seems to have a plan to boost the distribution grid.If he needs the authority he can ask cogress to pass the appropriate legislation.

> If they did have the authority you can bet that they would have exercised it.

Why? It\'s a capital-intensive exercise, and they don\'t happen overnight.

> This is putting people\'s lives and livelihoods in danger, but the libtards DON\'T CARE!

How is proposing to beef up the distribution grid putting people\'s lives in danger? Gnatguy doesn\'t understand what\'s gong on, and - as he always does - he\'s decided that what\'s he imagines is actually going on is something he can get hysterical about.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no Administration, including Joe Biden\'s, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
\"The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest.\"
The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO. AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.
Nice save from \'So, NO, the US government ISN\'T in the electricity
generation \"business.\"\'

The electricity powering this computer is contracted from the BPA from
the electric co-op of which I am a member. The co-op goes back to the
REA (Rural Electrification Administration) formed in 1935. Yeah, it\'s
all legacy but it lives on. fwiw the REA was created by an EO of Roosevelt.

It worked well when deregulation was all the rage. Montana Power
immediately sold its generation capacity to out of state firms and
reinvented itself as a telecommunications company just in time to go
bankrupt in the dotcom bust. Rates went up drastically driving out
several energy intensive businesses like aluminum smelters. Since the
co-op is linked to the BPA my rates stayed stable.

BTW, Hoover Dam is also run by the Bureau of Reclamation and Congress
directly authorizes the contracts.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-1999-title43-chapter12A-subchapter3&edition=1999

The current contracts are extended to 2067. It\'s a good thing the
distribution is in percents. Reclamation saved the bacon in 2017 with
new wide head turbines but I don\'t know if they have any more rabbits in
the hat as Mead dries up.

BPA, TVA and the like are federal AGENCIES. They are entities that are authorized to operate by the US government to perform specific functions, but ARE NOT the government. Their charter is limited by law. For example, BPA can (and does) sell power to CA, but they can\'t issue bonds and build a new power plant in CA.

The ENTIRE POINT of this thread is that Joe Biden is using all means possible to outlaw carbon-fueled vehicles, but has NO PLAN (and certainly NO AUTHORITY) to expand and modernize the electrical grid to accommodate the EV vehicles that will replace them.

No plan that Gnatguy can understand. He certainly seems to have a plan to boost the distribution grid.If he needs the authority he can ask cogress to pass the appropriate legislation.
Click to expand...

Hey SNIPPERMAN, we all know that there is NO PLAN, including your addled brain. If you could find one - which you CAN\'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.
 
On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no Administration, including Joe Biden\'s, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
\"The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest.\"
The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO. AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.
Nice save from \'So, NO, the US government ISN\'T in the electricity
generation \"business.\"\'

The electricity powering this computer is contracted from the BPA from
the electric co-op of which I am a member. The co-op goes back to the
REA (Rural Electrification Administration) formed in 1935. Yeah, it\'s
all legacy but it lives on. fwiw the REA was created by an EO of Roosevelt.

It worked well when deregulation was all the rage. Montana Power
immediately sold its generation capacity to out of state firms and
reinvented itself as a telecommunications company just in time to go
bankrupt in the dotcom bust. Rates went up drastically driving out
several energy intensive businesses like aluminum smelters. Since the
co-op is linked to the BPA my rates stayed stable.

BTW, Hoover Dam is also run by the Bureau of Reclamation and Congress
directly authorizes the contracts.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-1999-title43-chapter12A-subchapter3&edition=1999

The current contracts are extended to 2067. It\'s a good thing the
distribution is in percents. Reclamation saved the bacon in 2017 with
new wide head turbines but I don\'t know if they have any more rabbits in
the hat as Mead dries up.

BPA, TVA and the like are federal AGENCIES. They are entities that are authorized to operate by the US government to perform specific functions, but ARE NOT the government. Their charter is limited by law. For example, BPA can (and does) sell power to CA, but they can\'t issue bonds and build a new power plant in CA.

The ENTIRE POINT of this thread is that Joe Biden is using all means possible to outlaw carbon-fueled vehicles, but has NO PLAN (and certainly NO AUTHORITY) to expand and modernize the electrical grid to accommodate the EV vehicles that will replace them.

No plan that Gnatguy can understand. He certainly seems to have a plan to boost the distribution grid.If he needs the authority he can ask congress to pass the appropriate legislation.

Hey Sloman, we all know that there is NO PLAN, including your addled brain.
Click to expand...

Gnatguy generalises his own confusion to everybody else. If there\'s nothing there that he can understand, he\'s fatuously confident that there\'s nothing there than anybody could understand.

>If you could find one - which you CAN\'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.

Why would I bother? I did actually post this link, which isn\'t talking about a plan, but rather the consultation that you\'d go through when putting one together

https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

Biden is being sensible about this, but he\'s not being sensible in a way that you can understand - you can\'t understand much as the best of times, and you aren\'t going to exert your remarkably feeble intellect to try to understand anything that the Democrats might put forward , even if there was remote chance you could.

You actually headed this thread with a reference to Biden and electrification, but what you asked for was an estimate of the extra generating capacity required to support electric cars when they replace gasoline-powered cars, which I already knew, and could dig a supporting link out of google in thirty seconds.

Going around bleating that other people don\'t know what they are talking about after that pathetic pratfall would be chutzpa, if you were bright enough to understand how stupid you had been. As it is it\'s just Gnatguy reminding us - again - that he\'s a total moron.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
GnatTurd <maggotlifelong@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:c9fbd165-ffcb-4657-a2e0-20b1e085d358n@googlegroups.com:

ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago,
mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities.
Click to expand...

You are a goddamned idiot. The DC intertie was NOT a \"Depression-
era\" project. You are only off by three decades minimum. It was
\"authorized\" by the congress in place during the Kennedy
administration. Damn you are stupid, boy.

You are even more stupid than \'John Doe\' aka \'Jack Webb\' aka Jake
Isks.
 
GnatTurd <maggot4life@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:712b9bfd-8fab-4f14-b74e-30523b82fc99n@googlegroups.com:

No, you\'re false. Show me statutes which grant the Feds authority
in electricity generation and production. They have no more
authority in this area than they do to produce cars and trucks.
They can REGULATE it, but can\'t PARTICIPATE in it.
Click to expand...

They operate nuclear power facilities. They do not own them. They
GOVERN ALL ASPECTS of their operation, however.

GnatTurd is an abject idiot. But we all already knew that from all
the TrumpShitSmear stench in the air from you having your head a mile
up his fat skanky ass for over 7 years. You stink, boy.
 
On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:39:33 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
GnatTurd <maggo...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:712b9bfd-8fab-4f14...@googlegroups.com:
No, you\'re false. Show me statutes which grant the Feds authority
in electricity generation and production. They have no more
authority in this area than they do to produce cars and trucks.
They can REGULATE it, but can\'t PARTICIPATE in it.

They operate nuclear power facilities. They do not own them. They
GOVERN ALL ASPECTS of their operation, however.

GnatTurd is an abject idiot. But we all already knew that from all
the TrumpShitSmear stench in the air from you having your head a mile
up his fat skanky ass for over 7 years. You stink, boy.
Click to expand...

You, sir, are the \"abject idiot\" - they DO NOT \"GOVERN ALL ASPECTS,\" they REGULATE the operation of the facilities. The first implies direct control of the operation. This IS NOT the case - they review the operation for compliance with regulations. And they, sure as HELL, DON\'T OPERATE THEM, fool.
 
On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no Administration, including Joe Biden\'s, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
\"The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest.\"
The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO. AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.
Nice save from \'So, NO, the US government ISN\'T in the electricity
generation \"business.\"\'

The electricity powering this computer is contracted from the BPA from
the electric co-op of which I am a member. The co-op goes back to the
REA (Rural Electrification Administration) formed in 1935. Yeah, it\'s
all legacy but it lives on. fwiw the REA was created by an EO of Roosevelt.

It worked well when deregulation was all the rage. Montana Power
immediately sold its generation capacity to out of state firms and
reinvented itself as a telecommunications company just in time to go
bankrupt in the dotcom bust. Rates went up drastically driving out
several energy intensive businesses like aluminum smelters. Since the
co-op is linked to the BPA my rates stayed stable.

BTW, Hoover Dam is also run by the Bureau of Reclamation and Congress
directly authorizes the contracts.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-1999-title43-chapter12A-subchapter3&edition=1999

The current contracts are extended to 2067. It\'s a good thing the
distribution is in percents. Reclamation saved the bacon in 2017 with
new wide head turbines but I don\'t know if they have any more rabbits in
the hat as Mead dries up.

BPA, TVA and the like are federal AGENCIES. They are entities that are authorized to operate by the US government to perform specific functions, but ARE NOT the government. Their charter is limited by law. For example, BPA can (and does) sell power to CA, but they can\'t issue bonds and build a new power plant in CA.

The ENTIRE POINT of this thread is that Joe Biden is using all means possible to outlaw carbon-fueled vehicles, but has NO PLAN (and certainly NO AUTHORITY) to expand and modernize the electrical grid to accommodate the EV vehicles that will replace them.

No plan that Gnatguy can understand. He certainly seems to have a plan to boost the distribution grid.If he needs the authority he can ask congress to pass the appropriate legislation.

Hey Sloman, we all know that there is NO PLAN, including your addled brain.

Gnatguy generalises his own confusion to everybody else. If there\'s nothing there that he can understand, he\'s fatuously confident that there\'s nothing there than anybody could understand.
If you could find one - which you CAN\'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.
Why would I bother? I did actually post this link, which isn\'t talking about a plan, but rather the consultation that you\'d go through when putting one together
Click to expand...

Again, SNIPPERMAN, we ALL KNOW that you are BLOWING SMOKE and can\'t find any such plan. If you had you would have posted it instead of making those PATHETIC, LAME EXCUSES!
 
On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

The ENTIRE POINT of this thread is that Joe Biden is using all means possible to outlaw carbon-fueled vehicles, but has NO PLAN (and certainly NO AUTHORITY) to expand and modernize the electrical grid to accommodate the EV vehicles that will replace them.
Click to expand...

It wasn\'t the point when Gnatguy started it - he was fussed about the extra load on the grid when electric cars took over from gasoline-powered cars, and was much too dumb to know that people have been working that out - and publishing their conclusions - for ages.

I suspect that \"Hot, Flat and Crowded\"

https://www.thomaslfriedman.com/hot-flat-and-crowded-2-0/

originally published in 2008, went into that. I can\'t check my copy - it\'s still in the Netherlands.

No plan that Gnatguy can understand. Biden certainly seems to have a plan to boost the distribution grid.If he needs the authority he can ask congress to pass the appropriate legislation.

Hey Sloman, we all know that there is NO PLAN, including your addled brain.

Gnatguy generalises his own confusion to everybody else. If there\'s nothing there that he can understand, he\'s fatuously confident that there\'s nothing there than anybody could understand.
If you could find one - which you CAN\'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.

Why would I bother? I did actually post this link, which isn\'t talking about a plan, but rather the consultation that you\'d go through when putting one together.

https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

Again, Sloman, we ALL KNOW that you are BLOWING SMOKE and can\'t find any such plan.
Click to expand...

Gnatguy is confident that he knows what other people are doing. In practice he does seem to assume that they are as stupid as he is, which is very rarely true.

> If you had you would have posted it instead of making those PATHETIC, LAME EXCUSES!

So pathetic and lame that you snipped the rest of what I posted, rather than subjecting it to your laser-like analytical scrutiny.

In this particular case Gnatguy is complaining about Biden not having a plan, when Biden has enough sense to be working on setting up the consultations which would assemble the kind of expert opinions you\'d need to allow you to set up a sensible plan. Gnatguy doesn\'t see the necessity for that because he doesn\'t actually understand that the task is tolerably complicated - how could he?

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:32:53 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
GnatTurd <maggotl...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:c9fbd165-ffcb-4657...@googlegroups.com:
ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago,
mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities.
You are a goddamned idiot. The DC intertie was NOT a \"Depression-
era\" project. You are only off by three decades minimum. It was
\"authorized\" by the congress in place during the Kennedy
administration. Damn you are stupid, boy.

You are even more stupid than \'John Doe\' aka \'Jack Webb\' aka Jake
Isks.
Click to expand...

Hey, Idiot, I said \"MOST\" you FOOL!
 
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