The 555 Has Been Around at Least 30 Years

[Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun]

In article <bo11lk$csd$1@eskinews.eskimo.com>, mzenier@eskimo.com
mentioned...

In article <4pr6qvgpo8rfs8rn4bjb5gqepvbaiunbvu@4ax.com>,
Don Pearce <dxoxnxaxlxd@pearce.uk.com> wrote:
As the weatherman predicted, it's raining here in So. Calif. The
scary thought is, what's going to happen to all those thousands of
acres of burnt hillsides. Are they going to turn into lahars?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lahar

Burning of heath and wood land is a normal part of the life cycle. It
is preventing the regular occurrence of small fires that leads to
dangerous brush buildup and huge, uncontrolled fires. My bet is that
green shoots will be showing within a couple of weeks, and this time
next year you will have a fine new cover everywhere. As for a lahar -
why would you expect that?

The So. Cal. brush land is a special case. It's bred to burn. It's a
dry land climate brush land, where the foliage ends up creating its own
waxy outer layers to prevent moisture loss. Which just happen to be
especially flammable. And one neat trick is that they add a layer of
waterproofing to the soil, so that after a fire when a big rain comes,
it won't soak in.

Add to that the West Coast weather, where the jet stream acts like a
fence that collects the rain storms off of Hawaii and herds them all to
one spot. You can end up with 5 to 10 inches of rain in a day, (like
Seattle got a week ago Monday). The jet stream flails up and down the
coast like a garden hose with no one holding it.

So, sometimes you end up with house sized boulders bouncing down the
canyons and leaving mud flows several feet deep on the alluvial fans.

But these, of course being So. Cal., are also the areas that are
considered prime real estate. Crunch.

Some places, they've set up structures to deal with this. One is the
Sepulveda Dam Recreation Area in the San Fernando Valley. Imagine a
square mile of Los Angeles just left there to collect mud, which should
give you some of the scale of the problem. (Given the real estate values
around that place).

Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com Washington State resident

Hey, Mark! How's it you know so much about this HollyWeird land down
here? Thought you were from up North.

Lotsa good (and expensive) real estate around here, after all, only a
few thousand out of millions of homes got hit by the fire.

They say that Orange County is a disaster waiting to happen, if there
is a hundred year flood. All the water from Riverside and San Berdoo
has to come thru the Santa Ana Canyon, and Prado Dam can't hold it all
back. Shades of '69, when it rained for most of the month!

Another good book to read about water and the battles for it is
"Cadillac Desert". It was also a series on PBS.


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[Fred Abse]

On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 17:00:28 +0000, Don Pearce wrote:

Can't remember what they are, but there are some tress that will only
propagate by fire.

Eucalyptus, IIRC, for one. (Any Aussies feel free to correct me if I'm
wrong)

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)
nofr@sbhevre.pbzchyvax.pb.hx

 

[Mark Zenier]

In article <MPG.1a0dc9d2a8c6b6b1989890@news.dslextreme.com>,
Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote:

In article <bo11lk$csd$1@eskinews.eskimo.com>, mzenier@eskimo.com
mentioned...
Hey, Mark! How's it you know so much about this HollyWeird land down
here? Thought you were from up North.

For a Seattlite, studying Los Angeles is like having a time machine that
sees the future. In addition to the usual forces of car based growth
and development, there's a cadre of political types here who try to
imitate whatever the fashion is in So. Cal. (Jeeze, like we can't find
our own ways to screw things up...).

Lotsa good (and expensive) real estate around here, after all, only a
few thousand out of millions of homes got hit by the fire.

They say that Orange County is a disaster waiting to happen, if there
is a hundred year flood. All the water from Riverside and San Berdoo
has to come thru the Santa Ana Canyon, and Prado Dam can't hold it all
back. Shades of '69, when it rained for most of the month!

Another good book to read about water and the battles for it is
"Cadillac Desert". It was also a series on PBS.

Yea, "Water flows up hill towards Money". In addition to McPhee's
"Control of Nature", "City of Quartz" and "Ecology of Fear" by Mike
Davis are good peeks behind the curtain that show (one viewpoint) of
how things are run down there.

Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com Washington State resident

 

[Mark Zenier]

In article <eo38qv01q63v46cnurfkp55ri0jek6b5v8@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:53:20 GMT, mzenier@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier)
wrote:

In article <MPG.1a0d0deaa76fde6f98987d@news.dslextreme.com>,
Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote:
As the weatherman predicted, it's raining here in So. Calif. The
scary thought is, what's going to happen to all those thousands of
acres of burnt hillsides. Are they going to turn into lahars?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lahar

Scary stuff comes down the hillsides.

See _The Control of Nature_ by John McPhee. It's got a great essay
on "Flood", the LA county flood control system.

Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com Washington State resident

Or see the movies "Chinatown" and "Two Jakes" to get a sense of the
political twisting and turning.

No, that's the fresh water supply system (See John's/Watson's
suggestion of "Cadillac Desert" for that story). The storm drains
are a whole different empire.

Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com Washington State resident

 

[Reinhard Zwirner]

Fred Abse schrieb:

On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 17:00:28 +0000, Don Pearce wrote:

Can't remember what they are, but there are some tress that will only
propagate by fire.

Eucalyptus, IIRC, for one. (Any Aussies feel free to correct me if I'm
wrong)

What about the big Sequoia trees? IIRC they need wildfires for
propagation ...

HTH,

Reinhard

 

[Don Klipstein]

In <bo4217$17m1bn$1@ID-60.news.uni-berlin.de>, Reinhard Zwirner wrote:

Fred Abse schrieb:

On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 17:00:28 +0000, Don Pearce wrote:

Can't remember what they are, but there are some tress that will only
propagate by fire.

Eucalyptus, IIRC, for one. (Any Aussies feel free to correct me if I'm
wrong)

What about the big Sequoia trees? IIRC they need wildfires for
propagation ...

I have heard of a kind of pine or similar tree that requires fire for
the seeds to be deployed. The pine cones supposedly require being
scorched by fire to open up if I remember correctly. Guessing from fuzzy
memory traces... maybe ponderosa pine? But there are definitely trees
that only reproduce where there are fires.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Mjolinor wrote:

As the weatherman predicted, it's raining here in So. Calif. The
scary thought is, what's going to happen to all those thousands of
acres of burnt hillsides. Are they going to turn into lahars?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lahar

Burning of heath and wood land is a normal part of the life cycle. It
is preventing the regular occurrence of small fires that leads to
dangerous brush buildup and huge, uncontrolled fires. My bet is that
green shoots will be showing within a couple of weeks, and this time
next year you will have a fine new cover everywhere. As for a lahar -
why would you expect that?

A few years ago in the UK (and europe) they made it illegal for farmers to
burn, they have done this once a year for ever. Now the whole of the country
is in a state where if a fire starts then it burns for months instead of
burning itself out in a few days. This situation is going to carry on
getting worse. Another example of the wonderful centralised government that
we seem to be building for ourselves.
-------------------

It has nothing whatsoever to do with the kind or centralization of
govt, it has to do with unscientfic practices by the public, who
wants to pretend that everything untoward in nature should be
prevented instead of understood and managed intelligently.

Anyway, Anti-science is and always has been the penchant of the Right!

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Graham W]

"Don Klipstein" <don@manx.misty.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbqbari.mo6.don@manx.misty.com...

In <bo4217$17m1bn$1@ID-60.news.uni-berlin.de>, Reinhard Zwirner wrote:
Fred Abse schrieb:

On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 17:00:28 +0000, Don Pearce wrote:

Can't remember what they are, but there are some tress that will
only
propagate by fire.

Eucalyptus, IIRC, for one. (Any Aussies feel free to correct me if
I'm
wrong)

What about the big Sequoia trees? IIRC they need wildfires for
propagation ...

I have heard of a kind of pine or similar tree that requires fire for
the seeds to be deployed. The pine cones supposedly require being
scorched by fire to open up if I remember correctly. Guessing from
fuzzy
memory traces... maybe ponderosa pine? But there are definitely trees
that only reproduce where there are fires.

IIRC, the Southern African Proteus is another that needs the heat of
fire to open up and disperse its seed.


--
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WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro-society.freeserve.co.uk/ Wessex
Dorset UK Astro Society's Web pages, Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.

 

[Mark Zenier]

In article <slrnbqbari.mo6.don@manx.misty.com>,
Don Klipstein <don@manx.misty.com> wrote:

In <bo4217$17m1bn$1@ID-60.news.uni-berlin.de>, Reinhard Zwirner wrote:
Fred Abse schrieb:

On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 17:00:28 +0000, Don Pearce wrote:
Can't remember what they are, but there are some tress that will only
propagate by fire.

Eucalyptus, IIRC, for one. (Any Aussies feel free to correct me if I'm
wrong)
What about the big Sequoia trees? IIRC they need wildfires for
propagation ...

I have heard of a kind of pine or similar tree that requires fire for
the seeds to be deployed. The pine cones supposedly require being
scorched by fire to open up if I remember correctly. Guessing from fuzzy
memory traces... maybe ponderosa pine? But there are definitely trees
that only reproduce where there are fires.

Lodgepole Pine, the species that grows (and burns) in Yellowstone Park
and in a lot of the northern Rockies.

Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com Washington State resident

 

[warren weber]

"Winfield Hill" <Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:bo11790296s@drn.newsguy.com...

warren weber wrote...

I recall when I first saw data on the 555, about 1965.
The price was $150.00 .. This was in a some electronics
magazine. or maybe a Poplar Science type magazine.

Warren, you're remembering something else entirely.

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com

Maybe>>>>>>>>>I don't remember what I had for breakfast...Warren

 

[Tim Shoppa]

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message news:<vq8948citmbq78@corp.supernews.com>...

warren weber wrote...
I recall when I first saw data on the 555, about 1965.
The price was $150.00 .. This was in a some electronics
magazine. or maybe a Poplar Science type magazine.


"Winfield Hill" wrote ...
Warren, you're remembering something else entirely.

My recollection is >10 years later and <1/10th that price.

When I first saw them, sometime in 1974 or so, they were being listed
in the ads in the back of Radio Electronics and Popular Electronics at just
over a dollar.

One hobbyist paper-tape reader from that era used nine 555's, and only
as 1/3 and 2/3 Vcc comparators.

Tim.

 

[Michael Black]

Tim Shoppa (shoppa@trailing-edge.com) writes:

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message news:<vq8948citmbq78@corp.supernews.com>...
warren weber wrote...
I recall when I first saw data on the 555, about 1965.
The price was $150.00 .. This was in a some electronics
magazine. or maybe a Poplar Science type magazine.


"Winfield Hill" wrote ...
Warren, you're remembering something else entirely.

My recollection is >10 years later and <1/10th that price.

When I first saw them, sometime in 1974 or so, they were being listed
in the ads in the back of Radio Electronics and Popular Electronics at just
over a dollar.

One hobbyist paper-tape reader from that era used nine 555's, and only
as 1/3 and 2/3 Vcc comparators.

Tim.

I think that is why it's lasted all these years. It has enough flexibility
that you can find other uses for it, and the low cost and availability to
make it an easy choice.

I've used a 555 as merely an inverter, because I had it on hand and
wanted something that would run off the wide voltage range. Yes, you can
get line drivers that would do the same thing, but they weren't at hand.

You can find a specialized device, and it can be the best choice in many
cases, but unless you are using it a lot it may not be worth stocking.
But more general devices have in its favor that you will keep them on
hand.

I think of the LM3909, which came out a few years after the 555. A
great novelty, but unless you needed it for it's intended low current/low
voltage flasher application, there wasn't anything that some other device
wouldn't provide, including the 555. But while people discovered various
other uses for the 3909, mostly oscillator applications, they always
struck me as people trying to find uses for the device no matter what,
rather than stumbling on the use by chance. Maybe this perception is
tainted by the fact that I've had 555s around almost since they first
arrived on the scene, and only had one or two 3909's in that same period.
It seems natural to use the 555 for things beyond timer applications,
but seems silly to use the now-defunct 3909.

Michael

 

[Jim Thompson]

On 5 Nov 2003 18:49:38 GMT, et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black)
wrote:

[snip]

I think of the LM3909, which came out a few years after the 555. A
great novelty, but unless you needed it for it's intended low current/low
voltage flasher application, there wasn't anything that some other device
wouldn't provide, including the 555. But while people discovered various
other uses for the 3909, mostly oscillator applications, they always
struck me as people trying to find uses for the device no matter what,
rather than stumbling on the use by chance. Maybe this perception is
tainted by the fact that I've had 555s around almost since they first
arrived on the scene, and only had one or two 3909's in that same period.
It seems natural to use the 555 for things beyond timer applications,
but seems silly to use the now-defunct 3909.

Michael

The LM3909, known sometimes as "The Miser", was designed by friend Bob
Hirschfeld (founder of Lithic Systems, and later a father's rights
attorney of ill-repute while he was at National.

But, speaking of longevity, how about my 1488/1489? Or My 1530/31
OpAmps which are still being manufactured by Lansdale after 39 years?
Or my 1648 VCO, 36 years? Or the 12000 series PLL parts which are
process re-works of my 60's designs?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Fred Abse]

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 23:55:13 +0100, Reinhard Zwirner wrote:

What about the big Sequoia trees? IIRC they need wildfires for
propagation ...

Not sure about that, I do know that they can *survive* fires.

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)
nofr@sbhevre.pbzchyvax.pb.hx

 

[JeffM]

warren weber

That's a great handle.
Did you come by it honestly or are you a Happy Days fan?

 

[Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun]

In article <f9iiqv89l54o6v8t5qg3dq4q65bphqh7l3@4ax.com>,
invalid@invalid.invalid mentioned...

On 5 Nov 2003 18:49:38 GMT, et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black)
wrote:

[snip]

I think of the LM3909, which came out a few years after the 555. A
great novelty, but unless you needed it for it's intended low current/low
voltage flasher application, there wasn't anything that some other device
wouldn't provide, including the 555. But while people discovered various
other uses for the 3909, mostly oscillator applications, they always
struck me as people trying to find uses for the device no matter what,
rather than stumbling on the use by chance. Maybe this perception is
tainted by the fact that I've had 555s around almost since they first
arrived on the scene, and only had one or two 3909's in that same period.
It seems natural to use the 555 for things beyond timer applications,
but seems silly to use the now-defunct 3909.

Michael

The LM3909, known sometimes as "The Miser", was designed by friend Bob
Hirschfeld (founder of Lithic Systems, and later a father's rights
attorney of ill-repute while he was at National.

But, speaking of longevity, how about my 1488/1489?

Ah-hah. I found the culprit. I used to carry around a pair of those
and a couple other line driver chips, I think they were the 75113 and
NE529 whereever I went. The line driver boxes used to burn those out
whenever there was a power glitch or lightning strike. Wasn't the
fault of the chips, the problem was that the line driver boxes didn't
have transformer isolation of the line. But we ran 9600 baud data all
over the campus with them.

Or My 1530/31
OpAmps which are still being manufactured by Lansdale after 39 years?

What's different about those compared to a 741, ferinstance?

Or my 1648 VCO, 36 years? Or the 12000 series PLL parts which are
process re-works of my 60's designs?

Do you get any royalties or something for the designs after all these
years? I wouldn't think so, but I thought I'd just ask.

...Jim Thompson

--
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goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@

 

[Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun]

In article <pan.2003.11.03.22.09.58.626529@cerebrumconfus.it>,
excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it mentioned...

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 23:55:13 +0100, Reinhard Zwirner wrote:

What about the big Sequoia trees? IIRC they need wildfires for
propagation ...

Not sure about that, I do know that they can *survive* fires.

They have so much tannic acid in the bark that after they die, they
won't even rot away.

But a lot of forests depend on the fires to clear the brush at the
bottom of the trees so that the seedlings can have room to grow, and
to reduce the competition for resources in general.


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@

 

[Ken Taylor]

"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a1351018db081cf9898b6@news.dslextreme.com...

In article <f9iiqv89l54o6v8t5qg3dq4q65bphqh7l3@4ax.com>,
invalid@invalid.invalid mentioned...
On 5 Nov 2003 18:49:38 GMT, et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black)
wrote:

[snip]

I think of the LM3909, which came out a few years after the 555. A
great novelty, but unless you needed it for it's intended low
current/low
voltage flasher application, there wasn't anything that some other
device
wouldn't provide, including the 555. But while people discovered
various
other uses for the 3909, mostly oscillator applications, they always
struck me as people trying to find uses for the device no matter what,
rather than stumbling on the use by chance. Maybe this perception is
tainted by the fact that I've had 555s around almost since they first
arrived on the scene, and only had one or two 3909's in that same
period.
It seems natural to use the 555 for things beyond timer applications,
but seems silly to use the now-defunct 3909.

Michael

The LM3909, known sometimes as "The Miser", was designed by friend Bob
Hirschfeld (founder of Lithic Systems, and later a father's rights
attorney of ill-repute while he was at National.

But, speaking of longevity, how about my 1488/1489?

Ah-hah. I found the culprit. I used to carry around a pair of those
and a couple other line driver chips, I think they were the 75113 and
NE529 whereever I went. The line driver boxes used to burn those out
whenever there was a power glitch or lightning strike. Wasn't the
fault of the chips, the problem was that the line driver boxes didn't
have transformer isolation of the line. But we ran 9600 baud data all
over the campus with them.

I had a similar problem with 1488/89's in equipment at an air force base,

continually losing them to lightning and surges. Right up until I cleaned up
the building earthing and tidied the equipment's comm's wiring (again,
particularly the earths).........

Ken

 

[Roy J. Tellason]

Ken Taylor wrote:

I had a similar problem with 1488/89's in equipment at an air force base,
continually losing them to lightning and surges. Right up until I cleaned up
the building earthing and tidied the equipment's comm's wiring (again,
particularly the earths).........

Ken

I used to get these terminals in all the time, with exactly that problem and
for exactly that reason. Thse chips weren't socketed in the original
manufacture, but I installed sockets to make replacement easier on
subsequent visits.

I never did get out to the site, but know that it involved a cable run from
one building to another at a local small airport.

Care to elaborate on what you did to fix the problem?

 

[Fred Abse]

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:35:40 -0800, Watson A. Name - "Watt Sun, Dark
Remover" wrote:

In article <pan.2003.11.03.22.09.58.626529@cerebrumconfus.it>,
excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it mentioned...
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 23:55:13 +0100, Reinhard Zwirner wrote:

What about the big Sequoia trees? IIRC they need wildfires for
propagation ...

Not sure about that, I do know that they can *survive* fires.

They have so much tannic acid in the bark that after they die, they
won't even rot away.

They sure as hell can fall over, though. ISTR, sometime recently that a

family sightseeing in Sequoia NP heard a crash, thought nothing more about
it, but when they got back to where they'd left their SUV - well, you can
guess the rest!

Think I heard it on "Car Talk", so it must be true

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)
nofr@sbhevre.pbzchyvax.pb.hx