Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.

[Sylvia Else]

On 7/09/2010 12:04 AM, Grant wrote:

On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 20:11:29 +1000, Sylvia Else<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

On 6/09/2010 4:32 PM, Peter Jason wrote:

Heavens! In my early days I could never afford an
electrician and their lazy apprentices. I soon learned the
basic tricks:


Just for good measure, and in the same vein, it appears from this definition

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/hbr2004219/s11.html

and the associated sections of the act, that on a proper construction,
one cannot even change/clean the dust filter in one's airconditiong
system, but must call in a tech to do it.

Crazy -- and there's no guarantee the tech will do a proper job either.

Now, anywhere but Australia, one would question whether that was really
the intent, but these days, Australians seem to be prohibited from doing
pretty much anything they're not expressly permitted to do, so a
prohibition against doing something to the dust filter seems entirely
plausible. Unlicensed breathing is still legal, for the time being.

We still allowed to run a vacuum cleaner?

I'll need to get back to you on that, though I'll have to read some more
legislation, and since I'm not a qualified lawyer, I may not be
permitted to do that.

You remind me of another silly new law, that I'm no longer allowed to make
my own ethernet cables?

That's news to me.

Or something? Since deciding that I had to buy

the tool to reterminate faulty storebought cable, I'm certainly not going
to buy cables that are worse quality than ones I can do myself. Though
my localnet's been shrinking down from eight to five machines, lots of spare
cable running around. But then, I'm renting, so none of it is permanent
wiring.

I know I can do what I like this side of the power plug, too. Or did that
change?

No, that still seems to be the case.

Sylvia.

 

[Peter Jason]

"Epsilon" <not@this.address.com> wrote in message
news:i63ve7$qhc$1@news.albasani.net...

Peter Jason wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8ejt2iFl1mU1@mid.individual.net...
On 6/09/2010 4:32 PM, Peter Jason wrote:

Heavens! In my early days I could never afford an
electrician and their lazy apprentices. I soon
learned
the
basic tricks:


Just for good measure, and in the same vein, it appears
from this definition

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/hbr2004219/s11.html

and the associated sections of the act, that on a proper
construction, one cannot even change/clean the dust
filter
in one's airconditiong system, but must call in a tech
to
do it.

Now, anywhere but Australia, one would question whether
that was really the intent, but these days, Australians
seem to be prohibited from doing pretty much anything
they're not expressly permitted to do, so a prohibition
against doing something to the dust filter seems
entirely
plausible. Unlicensed breathing is still legal, for the
time being.

Also note the uncertainty regarding whether a typical
split system is in a building.

Sylvia.

These laws are contrived by insurance companies so they
can
weasel out of paying every time.

Just think how many house fires are caused by people
trying
to by-pass electricity meters, especially these days.

Is it true that if one rotates a water meter 180 degrees,
and it runs backwards, then the council pays YOU?

It is completely true, but only when you are pushing the
water from your premises.

This is appalling negativism!

 

[Epsilon]

Peter Jason wrote:

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8ejt2iFl1mU1@mid.individual.net...
On 6/09/2010 4:32 PM, Peter Jason wrote:

Heavens! In my early days I could never afford an
electrician and their lazy apprentices. I soon learned
the
basic tricks:


Just for good measure, and in the same vein, it appears
from this definition

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/hbr2004219/s11.html

and the associated sections of the act, that on a proper
construction, one cannot even change/clean the dust filter
in one's airconditiong system, but must call in a tech to
do it.

Now, anywhere but Australia, one would question whether
that was really the intent, but these days, Australians
seem to be prohibited from doing pretty much anything
they're not expressly permitted to do, so a prohibition
against doing something to the dust filter seems entirely
plausible. Unlicensed breathing is still legal, for the
time being.

Also note the uncertainty regarding whether a typical
split system is in a building.

Sylvia.

These laws are contrived by insurance companies so they can
weasel out of paying every time.

Just think how many house fires are caused by people trying
to by-pass electricity meters, especially these days.

Is it true that if one rotates a water meter 180 degrees,
and it runs backwards, then the council pays YOU?

It is completely true, but only when you are pushing the water from your
premises.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 7/09/2010 8:16 AM, Peter Jason wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8ejt2iFl1mU1@mid.individual.net...
On 6/09/2010 4:32 PM, Peter Jason wrote:

Heavens! In my early days I could never afford an
electrician and their lazy apprentices. I soon learned
the
basic tricks:


Just for good measure, and in the same vein, it appears
from this definition

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/hbr2004219/s11.html

and the associated sections of the act, that on a proper
construction, one cannot even change/clean the dust filter
in one's airconditiong system, but must call in a tech to
do it.

Now, anywhere but Australia, one would question whether
that was really the intent, but these days, Australians
seem to be prohibited from doing pretty much anything
they're not expressly permitted to do, so a prohibition
against doing something to the dust filter seems entirely
plausible. Unlicensed breathing is still legal, for the
time being.

Also note the uncertainty regarding whether a typical
split system is in a building.

Sylvia.

These laws are contrived by insurance companies so they can
weasel out of paying every time.

Just think how many house fires are caused by people trying
to by-pass electricity meters, especially these days.

I wouldn't have thought that would lead to fires. No doubt it leads to
suddenly dead would-be power thieves, but in general, the attempted
bypass will either work, be completely ineffective, or will blow the
main fuse, depending on the particular incompetence of the perpetrator.
Also, the meter is usually in a metal box outside the house.

Is it true that if one rotates a water meter 180 degrees,
and it runs backwards, then the council pays YOU?

I don't know whether it would run backwards - it would depend on the
exact mechanism. But if it does, I wouldn't expect any payment to be
forthcoming, and sooner or later the billing anomaly would be flagged.
In the event that the billing system did issue payments (presumably
considered refunds), eventually the supplier would cotton on, and they'd
certainly ask for all the money back.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 7/09/2010 10:08 AM, Epsilon wrote:

Peter Jason wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8ejt2iFl1mU1@mid.individual.net...
On 6/09/2010 4:32 PM, Peter Jason wrote:

Heavens! In my early days I could never afford an
electrician and their lazy apprentices. I soon learned
the
basic tricks:


Just for good measure, and in the same vein, it appears
from this definition

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/hbr2004219/s11.html

and the associated sections of the act, that on a proper
construction, one cannot even change/clean the dust filter
in one's airconditiong system, but must call in a tech to
do it.

Now, anywhere but Australia, one would question whether
that was really the intent, but these days, Australians
seem to be prohibited from doing pretty much anything
they're not expressly permitted to do, so a prohibition
against doing something to the dust filter seems entirely
plausible. Unlicensed breathing is still legal, for the
time being.

Also note the uncertainty regarding whether a typical
split system is in a building.

Sylvia.

These laws are contrived by insurance companies so they can
weasel out of paying every time.

Just think how many house fires are caused by people trying
to by-pass electricity meters, especially these days.

Is it true that if one rotates a water meter 180 degrees,
and it runs backwards, then the council pays YOU?

It is completely true, but only when you are pushing the water from your
premises.

If you both reverse the meter, and push water from your premises, then
the water supplier will charge you for the privilege. To get the meter
to run backwards, if it's capable of it, you have to do one or the
other, not both.

Sylvia.

 

[Epsilon]

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 7/09/2010 10:08 AM, Epsilon wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8ejt2iFl1mU1@mid.individual.net...
On 6/09/2010 4:32 PM, Peter Jason wrote:

Heavens! In my early days I could never afford an
electrician and their lazy apprentices. I soon learned
the
basic tricks:


Just for good measure, and in the same vein, it appears
from this definition

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/hbr2004219/s11.html

and the associated sections of the act, that on a proper
construction, one cannot even change/clean the dust filter
in one's airconditiong system, but must call in a tech to
do it.

Now, anywhere but Australia, one would question whether
that was really the intent, but these days, Australians
seem to be prohibited from doing pretty much anything
they're not expressly permitted to do, so a prohibition
against doing something to the dust filter seems entirely
plausible. Unlicensed breathing is still legal, for the
time being.

Also note the uncertainty regarding whether a typical
split system is in a building.

Sylvia.

These laws are contrived by insurance companies so they can
weasel out of paying every time.

Just think how many house fires are caused by people trying
to by-pass electricity meters, especially these days.

Is it true that if one rotates a water meter 180 degrees,
and it runs backwards, then the council pays YOU?

It is completely true, but only when you are pushing the water from
your premises.

If you both reverse the meter, and push water from your premises, then
the water supplier will charge you for the privilege.

That would be fraud. The water supplier is not supplying water at all.

To get the meter
to run backwards, if it's capable of it, you have to do one or the
other, not both.

The meter doesn't work backwards like that. If it did, it would only reduce
the metered amount of water being supplied by the water supplier, but not
provide a way to calculate the water being supplied to the water supplier.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 7/09/2010 11:26 AM, Grant wrote:

I'm never game to do anything that can be that easily found out, and
bypassing the meter has to be done carefully, 'cos the power company
knows how much is going into a street, long term usage for each property,
and it doesn't take long to check with a clampmeter on a pole where the
power's going.

It was some years after I'd moved into my current property that I
noticed that the allegedly night-time tariff water heater was drawing
power during the day. Like a good citizen, I called Energy Australia,
and they came and undid what the previous owner had presumably done.

Clearly, Energy Australia hadn't noticed when the original switch was
made, and either no meter reader had happened to come when the heater
was running, or they were oblivious to the implications of that turning
wheel.

After doing the right thing, of course, I found that the tank wasn't big
enough to provide hot water during the day, and that we needed to be on
a more expensive tariff Energy Australia indicated that they'd get
around to it in a couple of weeks or so (given that it required a new
switch to be installed). However, after I'd protested to someone more
senior that I'd done right by them and they could at least reciprocate,
it was fixed in a couple of days.

Possibly more fun will be had with the new smart meters, we (Vic) getting
them within next four years, but they already upped the power bill heaps
to pay for the rollout.

I'm not looking forward to it. At one point I considered asking for one
to be installed, but after running the numbers, it was clear that my
electricity bill would rise quite a lot. The peak-time rate here in
Sydney is so high that power drawn 24/7 (computers, refrigerator), which
is the cheapest to supply, costs significantly more despite the lower
off-peak rate. So I'll wait until a new meter is imposed on me.

Be interesting to see how power usage changes, if ones knows what the
current going rate is at any time.

Those who are financially stressed will no doubt change their usage
pattern. The rest may change for a while, but will probably slip back to
their current pattern in due course.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 7/09/2010 11:39 AM, Epsilon wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
On 7/09/2010 10:08 AM, Epsilon wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8ejt2iFl1mU1@mid.individual.net...
On 6/09/2010 4:32 PM, Peter Jason wrote:

Heavens! In my early days I could never afford an
electrician and their lazy apprentices. I soon learned
the
basic tricks:


Just for good measure, and in the same vein, it appears
from this definition

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/hbr2004219/s11.html

and the associated sections of the act, that on a proper
construction, one cannot even change/clean the dust filter
in one's airconditiong system, but must call in a tech to
do it.

Now, anywhere but Australia, one would question whether
that was really the intent, but these days, Australians
seem to be prohibited from doing pretty much anything
they're not expressly permitted to do, so a prohibition
against doing something to the dust filter seems entirely
plausible. Unlicensed breathing is still legal, for the
time being.

Also note the uncertainty regarding whether a typical
split system is in a building.

Sylvia.

These laws are contrived by insurance companies so they can
weasel out of paying every time.

Just think how many house fires are caused by people trying
to by-pass electricity meters, especially these days.

Is it true that if one rotates a water meter 180 degrees,
and it runs backwards, then the council pays YOU?

It is completely true, but only when you are pushing the water from
your premises.

If you both reverse the meter, and push water from your premises, then
the water supplier will charge you for the privilege.

That would be fraud. The water supplier is not supplying water at all.

They wouldn't be entitled to the money, but it wouldn't be fraud,
because there would clearly be no intent. Be interesting to see the perp
trying to sue to get it back.

To get the meter
to run backwards, if it's capable of it, you have to do one or the
other, not both.

The meter doesn't work backwards like that. If it did, it would only
reduce the metered amount of water being supplied by the water supplier,
but not provide a way to calculate the water being supplied to the water
supplier.

If it's not capable of running backwards (but still allows water through
- it may well contain a non-return value), then reversing it would
result in the reading not changing when water is drawn, but the reading
would increase when water was pushed, so it would correctly indicate the
amount of water pushed (though the supplier would charge for it on the
assumption that it had been supplied). However, presumably the person
doing this would not be intending to push water to the supplier anyway,
so their water bill would drop to zero until someone noticed.

Of course, if it contains a non-return valve, then the perpetrator would
discover they've gone to a lot of unlawful trouble for no benefit, and
serve them right.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 7/09/2010 11:39 AM, terryc wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:16:39 +1000, Peter Jason wrote:


Is it true that if one rotates a water meter 180 degrees, and it runs
backwards, then the council pays YOU?

Nope, they just assume that you have left a tap running and that the
meter has looped and bill you for the lot.

I thought this was implausible, so in the spirit of scientific
endeavour, I took a look at my meter and did some measurements. Turns
out that if I leave a tap running fully open, it will loop the meter in
about 100 days, which is uncomfortably close to the meter reading cycle.
This suggests that a simple meter reading error can lead to disputes
later on about whether the water was actually consumed. An extra digit
on the meter would have resolved that.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 7/09/2010 12:14 PM, Epsilon wrote:

You have been watching too many US police shows - "perpetrator"?

What else do you expect me to do in the evening?

Sheesh!

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:16:39 +1000, Peter Jason wrote:

Is it true that if one rotates a water meter 180 degrees, and it runs
backwards, then the council pays YOU?

Nope, they just assume that you have left a tap running and that the
meter has looped and bill you for the lot.

 

[F Murtz]

Peter Jason wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8ejt2iFl1mU1@mid.individual.net...
On 6/09/2010 4:32 PM, Peter Jason wrote:

Heavens! In my early days I could never afford an
electrician and their lazy apprentices. I soon learned
the
basic tricks:


Just for good measure, and in the same vein, it appears
from this definition

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/hbr2004219/s11.html

and the associated sections of the act, that on a proper
construction, one cannot even change/clean the dust filter
in one's airconditiong system, but must call in a tech to
do it.

Now, anywhere but Australia, one would question whether
that was really the intent, but these days, Australians
seem to be prohibited from doing pretty much anything
they're not expressly permitted to do, so a prohibition
against doing something to the dust filter seems entirely
plausible. Unlicensed breathing is still legal, for the
time being.

Also note the uncertainty regarding whether a typical
split system is in a building.

Sylvia.

These laws are contrived by insurance companies so they can
weasel out of paying every time.

Just think how many house fires are caused by people trying
to by-pass electricity meters, especially these days.

Is it true that if one rotates a water meter 180 degrees,
and it runs backwards, then the council pays YOU?


If you were going to cheat it would better to make a connection

underground to the mains side And take half your water usage off that,
or make a bypass circuit that allows some water through meter and some not.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 7/09/2010 2:13 PM, terryc wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 11:47:07 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:


I'm not looking forward to it. At one point I considered asking for one
to be installed, but after running the numbers, it was clear that my
electricity bill would rise quite a lot. The peak-time rate here in
Sydney is so high that power drawn 24/7 (computers, refrigerator),

There lies the problem and the illusion of smart meters. If you have no
discretionary electrical items that you can turn off, ten there are n
savings under smart meters, just higher bills.


Be interesting to see how power usage changes, if ones knows what the
current going rate is at any time.

So, people will go without air conditioning in peak summer demand time on
very hot days?

Only if they're stupid or extremely hard up. Airconditioners will be
expensive to run in terms of cents per hour, but very hot days are not
that common, so the total amount doesn't come to much.

Those who are financially stressed will no doubt change their usage
pattern.

How?
Apart from dieing off?

There are some things, such as running clothes driers at different times
(mine often runs during peak period). Ditto doing the ironing. Cook
dinner later if an electric cooker is used. Run the fridge colder, and
turn it off between 2pm and 8pm, minimise opening it during that time.
Ditto freezers (but do people who are financially stressed have
freezers? I don't even have one).

Those who have instant electric hot water can change when they use it.

These are a nuisance, of course, which is why people who can afford to
will revert to the usage pattern than suits them.

Sylvia.

 

[Peter Jason]

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4c85bf73@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

Peter Jason wrote:
"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8ejt2iFl1mU1@mid.individual.net...
On 6/09/2010 4:32 PM, Peter Jason wrote:

Heavens! In my early days I could never afford an
electrician and their lazy apprentices. I soon
learned
the
basic tricks:


Just for good measure, and in the same vein, it appears
from this definition

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/hbr2004219/s11.html

and the associated sections of the act, that on a proper
construction, one cannot even change/clean the dust
filter
in one's airconditiong system, but must call in a tech
to
do it.

Now, anywhere but Australia, one would question whether
that was really the intent, but these days, Australians
seem to be prohibited from doing pretty much anything
they're not expressly permitted to do, so a prohibition
against doing something to the dust filter seems
entirely
plausible. Unlicensed breathing is still legal, for the
time being.

Also note the uncertainty regarding whether a typical
split system is in a building.

Sylvia.

These laws are contrived by insurance companies so they
can
weasel out of paying every time.

Just think how many house fires are caused by people
trying
to by-pass electricity meters, especially these days.

Is it true that if one rotates a water meter 180 degrees,
and it runs backwards, then the council pays YOU?


If you were going to cheat it would better to make a
connection underground to the mains side And take half
your water usage off that,
or make a bypass circuit that allows some water through
meter and some not.

Yes, this is called a shunt. I believe some unscrupulous
thieves have done this the past. For electricity & gas
too.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 7/09/2010 3:13 PM, Peter Jason wrote:

Yes, this is called a shunt. I believe some unscrupulous
thieves have done this the past. For electricity& gas
too.

Seems hardly worth the effort for water.

Sylvia.

 

[Peter Jason]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8em09oFnqpU1@mid.individual.net...

On 7/09/2010 3:13 PM, Peter Jason wrote:

Yes, this is called a shunt. I believe some unscrupulous
thieves have done this the past. For electricity& gas
too.

Seems hardly worth the effort for water.

Sylvia.

Exactly, nevertheless a shunt has the advantage of bleeding
off a fixed proportion of the supplied items.

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 11:47:07 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

I'm not looking forward to it. At one point I considered asking for one
to be installed, but after running the numbers, it was clear that my
electricity bill would rise quite a lot. The peak-time rate here in
Sydney is so high that power drawn 24/7 (computers, refrigerator),

There lies the problem and the illusion of smart meters. If you have no
discretionary electrical items that you can turn off, ten there are n
savings under smart meters, just higher bills.

Be interesting to see how power usage changes, if ones knows what the
current going rate is at any time.

So, people will go without air conditioning in peak summer demand time on
very hot days?

Those who are financially stressed will no doubt change their usage
pattern.

How?
Apart from dieing off?

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 7/09/2010 3:59 PM, terryc wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:47:44 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:


Those who are financially stressed will no doubt change their usage
pattern.

How?
Apart from dieing off?

There are some things, such as running clothes driers at different times
(mine often runs during peak period).

Goggle! You can hardly say you are financially stressed if you are still
running a clothes dryer. Use the clothesline or one/a few of those little
clothes racks.

People have strange notions about what financial stress means anyway.
You see them complaining, but they have plasma televisions in the
background.

Ditto doing the ironing.

Optional

Cook dinner later if an electric cooker is used.

After 8pm?

You do what it takes.

Run the fridge colder, and turn it off between 2pm and 8pm,
minimise opening it during that time.

Ditto freezers (but do people who are financially stressed have
freezers? I don't even have one).

Well, economies of bulk buying. Not that there are many in Australia
unless it includes various whole beasts for cash from farmers/drovers.

For small and medium sized business customers, Energy Australia has
introduced "Load Smart" which has a capacity charge. It's a daily charge
based on your maximum peak-time load for the year to date.

Given the limitations of the meters, it will presumably be the highest
average power over a 30 minute period.

By way of example, if on the 1st January, you push your load up to 10kW
for 30 minutes during peak time, then you'll incur a capacity charge
over the year of $425, even if your load is much less for the rest of
the year. It can only be a matter of time before this is introduced into
the domestic tariff, and it would significantly alter the economics of
running an airconditioner in heat waves (as it's probably intended to do).

But it should capture and deduct some measure of average power at other
times, because if you're consuming power 24/7, you're already paying the
full cost of delivering the electricity to you, and you shouldn't be
asked to pay it twice.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 7/09/2010 4:53 PM, terryc wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:27:50 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:


People have strange notions about what financial stress means anyway.

Yep. For many, it is having to decide between the trip to Bali ad the
trip to NZ.

You see them complaining, but they have plasma televisions in the
background.

It seems they are being dumped atm, but point made.


Cook dinner later if an electric cooker is used.

After 8pm?

You do what it takes.

Gas. you might not have noticed by LPG gas outlets have gone up over the
years following the sales of flash BBQs.


But it should capture and deduct some measure of average power at other
times, because if you're consuming power 24/7, you're already paying the
full cost of delivering the electricity to you, and you shouldn't be
asked to pay it twice.

You are not. There is a network access fee on all distributed energy/
services forms (not postage)

The network access fee is not power level dependent, but the cost of
delivering power is. The retail tariff includes as a part of the per kWh
charge an amount that reflects the cost of transmission, except that it
doesn't capture the higher cost associated with peak loads.

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:47:44 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

Those who are financially stressed will no doubt change their usage
pattern.

How?
Apart from dieing off?

There are some things, such as running clothes driers at different times
(mine often runs during peak period).

Goggle! You can hardly say you are financially stressed if you are still
running a clothes dryer. Use the clothesline or one/a few of those little
clothes racks.

Ditto doing the ironing.

Optional

Cook dinner later if an electric cooker is used.

After 8pm?

Run the fridge colder, and turn it off between 2pm and 8pm,
minimise opening it during that time.

Ditto freezers (but do people who are financially stressed have
freezers? I don't even have one).

Well, economies of bulk buying. Not that there are many in Australia
unless it includes various whole beasts for cash from farmers/drovers.