Speaker overload (tweeter) protection using bulbs (repost)

[Eeyore]

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Sigh. Find a basic DC coupled design and drive it *very*
hard - we're talking severe overload here - and look at
the output. It will approach the power rails.

That's what saturated output devices do.

Depends what you call saturate. It'll clip even if anti-saturation measures such
as a Baker Clamp are used.

It'll be virtually a square wave with almost twice the
sinewave power of the amp but not 'DC' though.

Right, there will be a sort of sloppy square wave whose spectral content
will depend on the waveform driving the amplifier.

Yeah. Might conceivably be a bit asymettrical but probably not to a large
degree.

The peak amplitude will be the rail voltages (which will have sagged if
there is a significant load), minus the saturation voltage of the output
devices. If you look closely, there may be some funny stuff where the
output stages snap out of saturation.

Base charge storage. That's what the Baker Clamp stops.

This square wave will of course have more energy in it than a sine wave with
a similar peak amplitude.

Around twice.

Graham

 

[Meat Plow]

On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:09:31 -0500, "George's Pro Sound Company"
<bmoas@yahoo.com>wrote:

Glad to hear it. I don't suppose you're a musician who uses Wharfe
gear or repairs pro audio gear for a living, but rather just another
consumer or retailer who has an opinion.

As far as the Behringer gear goes I have no experience with it so
other than seeing a lot of negative comments about it from those who
do use or repair it i have no opinion.

my opionons are formed by the gear I choose to own or not own, I IN FACT
put
my money where my mouth is
I OWN a sr company with a 1/4 million dollars of inventory and events that
have run into the 100,000 attendence range
be at it over 20 years
I feature mostly Meyer Sound Labs gear for the serious rig and behringer
for
the disposable low end crap
George


LOL!

?????????
George

Fuck off you bloated bag of gas.


Did you understand that?

 

[Meat Plow]

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:00:32 +1100, "Phil Allison"
<philallison@tpg.com.au>wrote:

Maynard is mentally defective as hell.

My irony meter just vaporized.

 

[George's Pro Sound Compan]

"Meat Plow" <meat@petitmorte.net> wrote in message
news:2bot5u.adg.17.1@news.alt.net...

On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:09:31 -0500, "George's Pro Sound Company"
bmoas@yahoo.com>wrote:



Glad to hear it. I don't suppose you're a musician who uses Wharfe
gear or repairs pro audio gear for a living, but rather just another
consumer or retailer who has an opinion.

As far as the Behringer gear goes I have no experience with it so
other than seeing a lot of negative comments about it from those who
do use or repair it i have no opinion.

my opionons are formed by the gear I choose to own or not own, I IN FACT
put
my money where my mouth is
I OWN a sr company with a 1/4 million dollars of inventory and events
that
have run into the 100,000 attendence range
be at it over 20 years
I feature mostly Meyer Sound Labs gear for the serious rig and behringer
for
the disposable low end crap
George


LOL!

?????????
George


Fuck off you bloated bag of gas.


Did you understand that?

I guess your a run of the mill solder jockey whom inhaled to many lead fumes
as a boy
That what your posts indicate

Living well is my best revenge against small minds like yours
George

 

[Meat Plow]

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:28:41 -0500, "George's Pro Sound Company"
<bmoas@yahoo.com>wrote:

"Meat Plow" <meat@petitmorte.net> wrote in message
news:2bot5u.adg.17.1@news.alt.net...
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:09:31 -0500, "George's Pro Sound Company"
bmoas@yahoo.com>wrote:



Glad to hear it. I don't suppose you're a musician who uses Wharfe
gear or repairs pro audio gear for a living, but rather just another
consumer or retailer who has an opinion.

As far as the Behringer gear goes I have no experience with it so
other than seeing a lot of negative comments about it from those who
do use or repair it i have no opinion.

my opionons are formed by the gear I choose to own or not own, I IN FACT
put
my money where my mouth is
I OWN a sr company with a 1/4 million dollars of inventory and events
that
have run into the 100,000 attendence range
be at it over 20 years
I feature mostly Meyer Sound Labs gear for the serious rig and behringer
for
the disposable low end crap
George


LOL!

?????????
George


Fuck off you bloated bag of gas.


Did you understand that?

I guess your a run of the mill solder jockey whom inhaled to many lead fumes
as a boy
That what your posts indicate

Living well is my best revenge against small minds like yours
George

IF bloated gas bag replies THEN goto Fuck off.

I'll give you one credit however, you
rec.audio.tech/alt.audio.pro.live-sound fuckheads breath a little
life into s.e.r.


.....heh

 

[George's Pro Sound Compan]

"Meat Plow" <meat@petitmorte.net> wrote in message
news:2bp2cv.b73.19.1@news.alt.net...

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:28:41 -0500, "George's Pro Sound Company"
bmoas@yahoo.com>wrote:


"Meat Plow" <meat@petitmorte.net> wrote in message
news:2bot5u.adg.17.1@news.alt.net...
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:09:31 -0500, "George's Pro Sound Company"
bmoas@yahoo.com>wrote:



Glad to hear it. I don't suppose you're a musician who uses Wharfe
gear or repairs pro audio gear for a living, but rather just another
consumer or retailer who has an opinion.

As far as the Behringer gear goes I have no experience with it so
other than seeing a lot of negative comments about it from those who
do use or repair it i have no opinion.

my opionons are formed by the gear I choose to own or not own, I IN
FACT
put
my money where my mouth is
I OWN a sr company with a 1/4 million dollars of inventory and events
that
have run into the 100,000 attendence range
be at it over 20 years
I feature mostly Meyer Sound Labs gear for the serious rig and
behringer
for
the disposable low end crap
George


LOL!

?????????
George


Fuck off you bloated bag of gas.


Did you understand that?

I guess your a run of the mill solder jockey whom inhaled to many lead
fumes
as a boy
That what your posts indicate

Living well is my best revenge against small minds like yours
George


IF bloated gas bag replies THEN goto Fuck off.

I'll give you one credit however, you
rec.audio.tech/alt.audio.pro.live-sound fuckheads breath a little
life into s.e.r.


wish we could say the same for the s.e.r merkins

George

 

[liquidator]

"Ron Johnson" <ron@lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message
news:ucudnTcoXqCdwLzUnZ2dnUVZ8h2dnZ2d@bt.com...

Eeyore wrote:

liquidator wrote:

"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote in
message
Any one have some hip boots ? my normal boots aren't tall enough!
Jeez- another idiot to killfiter- where are you pointing out what I
said was
wrong?

Jamie is notorious (with me at least) for having some very odd ideas
sometimes
in the electronics groups. I think he's a little bit out of touch with
current
practice in this area.

Graham

See! this is what happens when you crosspost - you get the idiots from
other groups polluting all the groups.

Can I get an Amen?

Been bitching at Graham to stop this shit for probably a year.

 

[liquidator]

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:49212246.7C580E4F@hotmail.com...

Still saw enough of them in amp racks. Usually with a pair of Boxer fans
blowing on the heatsinks.

Most I ever counted was a festival system, 72 Phase 400's in racks. Not mine
of course, we had two systems, both together were less than half that.

I think we owned about 36, generally 6 on the bench, 6 as spares, 24 in
actual use.

But they were cheaper, lighter, and sounded better than Crowns.

 

[liquidator]

"Ron Johnson" <ron@lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message
news:icidnbjyPp2gHLzUnZ2dnUVZ8vSdnZ2d@bt.com...

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article <MoKdnQseNpzE9LzUnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Arny Krueger <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote:
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:4921672F.B7AB124E@hotmail.com

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Sigh. Find a basic DC coupled design and drive it *very*
hard - we're talking severe overload here - and look at
the output. It will approach the power rails.

That's what saturated output devices do.

Indeed.

It'll be virtually a square wave with almost twice the
sinewave power of the amp but not 'DC' though.

As far as the speaker coil is concerned it might as well just be. And if
you measure the signal with an analogue meter DC is what you'll see.

Right, there will be a sort of sloppy square wave whose spectral
content
will depend on the waveform driving the amplifier.

Agreed.

The peak amplitude will be the rail voltages (which will have sagged if
there is a significant load), minus the saturation voltage of the
output
devices. If you look closely, there may be some funny stuff where the
output stages snap out of saturation.

This square wave will of course have more energy in it than a sine wave
with a similar peak amplitude.

Of course you could argue about what practical DC is. Most will have
some
form of ripple etc.


I`m getting a terrible sense of DejaVu about this thread

Yeah, it's been hashed a dozen times, clipping ain't DC, and people with
high levels of knowledge don't say it is.

Just salesmen and and fader jocks. Not real engineers.

In practice, the severely clipped amp won't do a perfect square wave, it
will sag. so the "virtual DC" argument falls flat on it's face...most supply
rails do not have enough storage to sustain a full square wave...some of the
real heavy old iron may.

But I don't talk about old amps to make a point, nobody uses them any more.

 

[liquidator]

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4921869E.9DAE79B6@hotmail.com...

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Sigh. Find a basic DC coupled design and drive it *very*
hard - we're talking severe overload here - and look at
the output. It will approach the power rails.

That's what saturated output devices do.

Depends what you call saturate. It'll clip even if anti-saturation
measures such
as a Baker Clamp are used.


It'll be virtually a square wave with almost twice the
sinewave power of the amp but not 'DC' though.

Right, there will be a sort of sloppy square wave whose spectral content
will depend on the waveform driving the amplifier.

Yeah. Might conceivably be a bit asymettrical but probably not to a large
degree.


The peak amplitude will be the rail voltages (which will have sagged if
there is a significant load), minus the saturation voltage of the output
devices. If you look closely, there may be some funny stuff where the
output stages snap out of saturation.

Base charge storage. That's what the Baker Clamp stops.


This square wave will of course have more energy in it than a sine wave
with
a similar peak amplitude.

Around twice.

Arny and I agree?

Chicken Little was right...

I argue how close it is to virtual DC though.

I certainly don't feel it fits the definition.

 

[liquidator]

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:492138D0.2C6D110A@hotmail.com...

George's Pro Sound Company wrote:

I got to say Jamie compared to you Eyesore is a Rhodes scholar, I havn't
seen anything but pure rubbish from you

and before you go off again like the noon bell at 11:17
there isno love lost between eyesore and myself
George

Thank you for the endorsement George. I recall we got on fine when I first
joined this group. For fear of provoking any further discord I'll avoid
mentioning the name of a certain person who helped upset that.

I was serious about you asking Jim Savery about the solder used by
Behringer
for N.A. destined products btw. If you're too busy, could you remind me of
his
contact details, email whatever and I'll enquire myself ?

Hey, you and I still have our words...but wouldn't it be friggin' boring if
everybody in th world agree on vanilla ice cream?

But different folks can find common ground. I got no quarrel with guys who
prefer blondes for instance...leaves more redheads for me...

 

[liquidator]

"Meat Plow" <meat@petitmorte.net> wrote in message
news:2botc5.bon.17.1@news.alt.net...

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:00:32 +1100, "Phil Allison"
philallison@tpg.com.au>wrote:

Maynard is mentally defective as hell.

My irony meter just vaporized.

Used to be a stock scene in old Science fiction movies...all the meters go
into overload...someone yells out "Turn back you fool!"

Then the Earth explodes/a dimensional gate opens/a guy is mutated into a
nasty creature...(insert other options here).

 

[George's Pro Sound Compan]

"liquidator" <mikeh@mad.scientist.com> wrote in message
news:gfsfem$o3b$1@aioe.org...

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:492138D0.2C6D110A@hotmail.com...


George's Pro Sound Company wrote:

I got to say Jamie compared to you Eyesore is a Rhodes scholar, I
havn't
seen anything but pure rubbish from you

and before you go off again like the noon bell at 11:17
there isno love lost between eyesore and myself
George

Thank you for the endorsement George. I recall we got on fine when I
first
joined this group. For fear of provoking any further discord I'll avoid
mentioning the name of a certain person who helped upset that.

I was serious about you asking Jim Savery about the solder used by
Behringer
for N.A. destined products btw. If you're too busy, could you remind me
of
his
contact details, email whatever and I'll enquire myself ?



Hey, you and I still have our words...but wouldn't it be friggin' boring
if
everybody in th world agree on vanilla ice cream?

But different folks can find common ground. I got no quarrel with guys who
prefer blondes for instance...leaves more redheads for me...


All behringer product I have seen in "a long time" has been lead

free/compliant with the new standards

 

[Arny Krueger]

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:4921869E.9DAE79B6@hotmail.com

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Sigh. Find a basic DC coupled design and drive it
*very* hard - we're talking severe overload here - and
look at the output. It will approach the power rails.

That's what saturated output devices do.

Depends what you call saturate. It'll clip even if
anti-saturation measures such as a Baker Clamp are used.

It'll be virtually a square wave with almost twice the
sinewave power of the amp but not 'DC' though.

Right, there will be a sort of sloppy square wave whose
spectral content will depend on the waveform driving the
amplifier.

Yeah. Might conceivably be a bit asymettrical but
probably not to a large degree.

YMMV.

The peak amplitude will be the rail voltages (which will
have sagged if there is a significant load), minus the
saturation voltage of the output devices. If you look
closely, there may be some funny stuff where the output
stages snap out of saturation.

Base charge storage. That's what the Baker Clamp stops.

Interesting page:

http://home.mira.net/~gnb/audio/lme49810.html

This square wave will of course have more energy in it
than a sine wave with a similar peak amplitude.

Around twice.

IOW, close to the energy content of DC, just with the polarity reversing
from time to time.

 

[Eeyore]

Meat Plow wrote:

Fuck off you bloated bag of gas.

Did you understand that?

I'm sure he understood it but King George won't like it one bit. He's a wee bit
temperamental, you know.

He also claims that MDF cabinets are crap despite buying them himself for his 'B
rigs'.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Meat Plow wrote:

"Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au>wrote:

Maynard is mentally defective as hell.

My irony meter just vaporized.

They should get engaged. ;~)

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Meat Plow wrote:

I'll give you one credit however, you
rec.audio.tech/alt.audio.pro.live-sound fuckheads breath a little
life into s.e.r.

It's been an interesting combination and as I've said, completely on topic for
all. It's given me a chuckle too to see what the techs think of what Assilon
calls 'fader jockeys'. And then there's Jamie. He's in his own league.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

George's Pro Sound Company wrote:

"Meat Plow" <meat@petitmorte.net> wrote

I'll give you one credit however, you
rec.audio.tech/alt.audio.pro.live-sound fuckheads breath a little
life into s.e.r.

wish we could say the same for the s.e.r merkins
George

Do you fix your own gear Your Highness ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

liquidator wrote:

Been bitching at Graham to stop this shit for probably a year.

I ONLY crosspost when it's on topic for all the groups as per netiquette
standards. Which it clearly was here.

In fact I normally trim groups more than anything, except you don't see that
of course.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

liquidator wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote

Still saw enough of them in amp racks. Usually with a pair of Boxer fans
blowing on the heatsinks.

Most I ever counted was a festival system, 72 Phase 400's in racks. Not mine
of course, we had two systems, both together were less than half that.

I think we owned about 36, generally 6 on the bench, 6 as spares, 24 in
actual use.

But they were cheaper, lighter, and sounded better than Crowns.

Crowns of that era always sounded gritty to me and had no better heatsinks
either. Never bothered with them then or since. Well especially as I 'roll my
own' these days !

Several UK companies like RSD/Studiomaster and Turner realised the heatsinking
problem and dealt with it. We had a Turner in my rig for a while. Sounded fine
too. It was driving mids (Philishave lookalikes - home made).

Graham