Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions

[terryc]

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 03:57:35 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

Not to mention all the trees that had a cooling effect on the
predominantly westerly winds have now been replaced by roads and roofs.

You're living in a 'heat island'.

That is basically what cities/large towns are.


--
Once again, our prime minister Kevin Rudd brings stability to the nation
by reassurring the nation that one law still exists for the rich
and another for the poor. After a personal visit;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/27/2553855.htm

 

[Sylvia Else]

terryc wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:28:37 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

terryc wrote:
On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 23:37:31 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

terryc wrote:

Naah, a couple of deep discharge batteries will cover the needed/
essential stuff that the LPG systems don't already cover (cooking,
heating and lighting).
Cooking and heating use a lot of electricity.
Yes, which is why our stove top is gas and we still have a wood heater,
which is shortly to be replaced by gas.

We swapped out the electric kettle for the cuppa after the last bill.
It pulled 9.? amps to boil a cuppa. Next target is the acre of glass in
a free TV we were given.
It takes a certain irreducible about of energy to boil water. If you buy
a kettle that draws a lower current, it will simply take longer to boil
the water. But you can make a saving by investing in a modern type of
kettle with a flat element, because you avoid having to boil more water
than you intend to use merely so that the element is covered.


We have gone from 19.1Kwh/day to 26.3Kwh/day in a year and we haven't a
clue what is the source. (yes, we do no use dryer, little oven use,
etc)
Maybe time to check for unauthorised cabling leading to your neighbour.

ASIO spy equipment in the ceiling is more likely. I'm also pretty sure
that the cats haven't smuggled in a heated pad as they sleep everywhere.

Or check the calibration of your meter.

Does the meter stop when everything is turned off?

Yep, BTDT, but that doesn't check calibration.

No, I meant that as an additional check.

An appliance such as a heater is likely to draw pretty much what the
rating plate says. Meters have markings on them to indicate how many
turns of the disc per kWh, or in the case of modern digital meters, how
many times an led will flash per kWh, or the energy represented by each
flash.

So, albeit with a bit of work, it is possible to check that the meter is
recording the amount of energy that the heater would use in a given
time. Any significant discrepancy would demand further investigation.

Another possibility is that the pressure relief valve in your HWS is
leaking.

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:10:18 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

Another possibility is that the pressure relief valve in your HWS is
leaking.

That is easy to check and it would show up as a green/wet patch. It is
something I do regularly. In anycase, OffPeak consumption has dropped
this period, when I would expect it to be going up.




--
Once again, our prime minister Kevin Rudd brings stability to the nation
by reassurring the nation that one law still exists for the rich
and another for the poor. After a personal visit;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/27/2553855.htm

 

[Sylvia Else]

terryc wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:10:18 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

Another possibility is that the pressure relief valve in your HWS is
leaking.

That is easy to check and it would show up as a green/wet patch. It is
something I do regularly. In anycase, OffPeak consumption has dropped
this period, when I would expect it to be going up.

Just to be clear, I meant that the valve itself was leaking, not that
the fitting was leaking. If the valve is leaking, then water is released
into a pipe, and that may or may not lead to obvious consequences,
depending on where the water is dumped.

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:29:15 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

terryc wrote:
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:10:18 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

Another possibility is that the pressure relief valve in your HWS is
leaking.

That is easy to check and it would show up as a green/wet patch. It is
something I do regularly. In anycase, OffPeak consumption has dropped
this period, when I would expect it to be going up.


Just to be clear, I meant that the valve itself was leaking, not that
the fitting was leaking. If the valve is leaking, then water is released
into a pipe, and that may or may not lead to obvious consequences,
depending on where the water is dumped.

Umm, where do you think the green patch comes from?
Hint, think monocotyledon species under the end of the pressure release
pipe.

FWIIW, when I live in flats, you could easily spot the leaking relief
valves on the outside of the wall as they dripped.

--
Once again, our prime minister Kevin Rudd brings stability to the nation
by reassurring the nation that one law still exists for the rich
and another for the poor. After a personal visit;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/27/2553855.htm

 

[atec 7 7]

terryc wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:10:18 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

Another possibility is that the pressure relief valve in your HWS is
leaking.

That is easy to check and it would show up as a green/wet patch. It is
something I do regularly. In anycase, OffPeak consumption has dropped
this period, when I would expect it to be going up.




Might be time to swap the current system out if it's more than 10 years

old solar and if not solar > be-gone spot out with you

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:43:47 +1000, atec 7 7 wrote:

terryc wrote:
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:10:18 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

Another possibility is that the pressure relief valve in your HWS is
leaking.

That is easy to check and it would show up as a green/wet patch. It is
something I do regularly. In anycase, OffPeak consumption has dropped
this period, when I would expect it to be going up.




Might be time to swap the current system out if it's more than 10 years
old solar and if not solar > be-gone spot out with you

Naah, on;y a couple of years old. I would be happy if they lasted beyond
10 years. Why can we not get get replacement anodes?



--
Once again, our prime minister Kevin Rudd brings stability to the nation
by reassurring the nation that one law still exists for the rich
and another for the poor. After a personal visit;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/27/2553855.htm

 

[atec 7 7]

terryc wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:43:47 +1000, atec 7 7 wrote:

terryc wrote:
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:10:18 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

Another possibility is that the pressure relief valve in your HWS is
leaking.
That is easy to check and it would show up as a green/wet patch. It is
something I do regularly. In anycase, OffPeak consumption has dropped
this period, when I would expect it to be going up.




Might be time to swap the current system out if it's more than 10 years
old solar and if not solar > be-gone spot out with you

Naah, on;y a couple of years old. I would be happy if they lasted beyond
10 years. Why can we not get get replacement anodes?



I have no idea about the anodes but expect a replacement can be made .

sS far the only solar we have run past ten years personally simply
failed , started leaking from the glass heat unit and died at 12 years
after springing several leaks , during winter we had to turn the booster
on for close to 15 days for the year.... disappointingly and the new
unit performed much better .

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 06:19:16 +1000, atec 7 7 wrote:

terryc wrote:

I have no idea about the anodes but expect a replacement can be made .

my understanding is that they are sacrificial and if you replace can
replace them, you keep(reduce) the rust out of the drum, which is usually
the cause of failure with mine.

sS far the only solar we have run past ten years personally simply
failed , started leaking from the glass heat unit and died at 12 years
after springing several leaks

Did you investigate?
did the glass crack?
Or did seals need replacing?

during winter we had to turn the booster
on for close to 15 days for the year.... disappointingly and the new
unit performed much better .

We are currently lagging all out hot water pipes and wrapping insulation
(rubber mats) around the unti to see if that cuts heat loss.
The lagging follows on from this temperature mixer that is compulsory
now. we have to waste ~3 mins of tap flow to get hot water for a shower
or in the sink.





--
Once again, our prime minister Kevin Rudd brings stability to the nation
by reassurring the nation that one law still exists for the rich
and another for the poor. After a personal visit;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/27/2553855.htm

 

[Mauried]

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 04:08:12 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Mauried wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
AB wrote:

Does anyone have any experience on how long it takes to re-coup your money
on one of these systems ?
The sales pitch looks fabulous but after getting the calculator out it
doesn't seem so good.

That's because it isn't.

Who allegedly subsidises Nuclear Power plants when they are owned and
operated by the State, such as Chinas are.
You cant subsidise yourself.

There's a limit to how many lumps of $8000 the gov't can hand out for next to no
return.

Graham


Indeed there is .

Even more interesting is why they are happy to hand out $8K grants for
Solar PV , but only $1.5K for solar hot water heaters.
The Hot Water Heaters win hands down for energy saved versus cost, but
it seems that saving energy isnt as "warm and fuzzy" as making energy.

 

[Sylvia Else]

terryc wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 06:19:16 +1000, atec 7 7 wrote:

terryc wrote:

I have no idea about the anodes but expect a replacement can be made .

my understanding is that they are sacrificial and if you replace can
replace them, you keep(reduce) the rust out of the drum, which is usually
the cause of failure with mine.

sS far the only solar we have run past ten years personally simply
failed , started leaking from the glass heat unit and died at 12 years
after springing several leaks

Did you investigate?
did the glass crack?
Or did seals need replacing?

during winter we had to turn the booster
on for close to 15 days for the year.... disappointingly and the new
unit performed much better .

We are currently lagging all out hot water pipes and wrapping insulation
(rubber mats) around the unti to see if that cuts heat loss.
The lagging follows on from this temperature mixer that is compulsory
now. we have to waste ~3 mins of tap flow to get hot water for a shower
or in the sink.

It will cut heat loss, but I doubt it'll do anything much to solve your
3 minute problem. The water in the pipe is not going to stay hot for
long even when the pipe is lagged.

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:06:40 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

It will cut heat loss, but I doubt it'll do anything much to solve your
3 minute problem. The water in the pipe is not going to stay hot for
long even when the pipe is lagged.

We will see. Hopefully it will reduce heat being drained from the tank
via the copper piping to the outside. The extra 3'/1m involved in piping
in the mixer is significant that close to the tank.

It might also increase the pipe cool down time between people taking
showers, etc.

The "lagging" is 1" think poly insulation tubing.




--
Once again, our prime minister Kevin Rudd brings stability to the nation
by reassurring the nation that one law still exists for the rich
and another for the poor. After a personal visit;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/27/2553855.htm

 

[Sylvia Else]

Mauried wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 04:08:12 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:


Mauried wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
AB wrote:

Does anyone have any experience on how long it takes to re-coup your money
on one of these systems ?
The sales pitch looks fabulous but after getting the calculator out it
doesn't seem so good.
That's because it isn't.
Who allegedly subsidises Nuclear Power plants when they are owned and
operated by the State, such as Chinas are.
You cant subsidise yourself.
There's a limit to how many lumps of $8000 the gov't can hand out for next to no
return.

Graham


Indeed there is .
Even more interesting is why they are happy to hand out $8K grants for
Solar PV , but only $1.5K for solar hot water heaters.
The Hot Water Heaters win hands down for energy saved versus cost, but
it seems that saving energy isnt as "warm and fuzzy" as making energy.

The solar water heater rebate makes it a marginal investment. The $8000
rebate for solar PV makes that a marginal investment. Apparently the
government likes creating situations in which people are placed into an
area of uncertainty as to where their best interests lie.

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 02:55:00 +0000, Mauried wrote:

Even more interesting is why they are happy to hand out $8K grants for
Solar PV , but only $1.5K for solar hot water heaters. The Hot Water
Heaters win hands down for energy saved versus cost, but it seems that
saving energy isnt as "warm and fuzzy" as making energy.

The solar HWS is a personal thing that only reduces demand for
electricity. The PV installation reduces demand for electricity and has
the potential to boost the mains supply at times of greatest demand.

Somewhere I found a claim that properly installed Pv can supply over 9KwH/
day/square metre at peak summer (Canberra, straight north, over 9 deg
tilt).

Pollies do not want blackout. A few $8,000 subsides might buy time whilst
the impact of the Carbon Reduction Scheme is sorted out and new
generators come forth.







--
Once again, our prime minister Kevin Rudd brings stability to the nation
by reassurring the nation that one law still exists for the rich
and another for the poor. After a personal visit;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/27/2553855.htm

 

[Sylvia Else]

terryc wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 02:55:00 +0000, Mauried wrote:


Even more interesting is why they are happy to hand out $8K grants for
Solar PV , but only $1.5K for solar hot water heaters. The Hot Water
Heaters win hands down for energy saved versus cost, but it seems that
saving energy isnt as "warm and fuzzy" as making energy.

The solar HWS is a personal thing that only reduces demand for
electricity. The PV installation reduces demand for electricity and has
the potential to boost the mains supply at times of greatest demand.

It's a very expensive way of supporting peak load.

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:50:22 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

It's a very expensive way of supporting peak load.

I suppose you can keep banging on with that same old cracked record. It
fills a production niche that can not be filled any other way.

Some electricty production is expensive, other is cheap.




--
Once again, our prime minister Kevin Rudd brings stability to the nation
by reassurring the nation that one law still exists for the rich
and another for the poor. After a personal visit;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/27/2553855.htm

 

[atec 7 7]

terryc wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 06:19:16 +1000, atec 7 7 wrote:

terryc wrote:

I have no idea about the anodes but expect a replacement can be made .

my understanding is that they are sacrificial and if you replace can
replace them, you keep(reduce) the rust out of the drum, which is usually
the cause of failure with mine.

sS far the only solar we have run past ten years personally simply
failed , started leaking from the glass heat unit and died at 12 years
after springing several leaks

Did you investigate?
did the glass crack?
Or did seals need replacing?
The heat exchanger was internally eroded away , a the anode did not

save it but the water here is quite course

during winter we had to turn the booster
on for close to 15 days for the year.... disappointingly and the new
unit performed much better .

We are currently lagging all out hot water pipes and wrapping insulation
(rubber mats) around the unti to see if that cuts heat loss.
The lagging follows on from this temperature mixer that is compulsory
now. we have to waste ~3 mins of tap flow to get hot water for a shower
or in the sink.
Our new place doesn't have a/c , it does however run a large network

or water pipes under the floor with a large water heating unit on the
roof and a large pipe passing underground with the house iar pumped
through it for cooling ( pommie idea) which is mega cheap to run ( 2
metres down the soil is at 4C all year round )

 

[Sylvia Else]

terryc wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:50:22 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:


It's a very expensive way of supporting peak load.

I suppose you can keep banging on with that same old cracked record.

That cuts both ways.

It
fills a production niche that can not be filled any other way.

Which would that be?

Some electricty production is expensive, other is cheap.

Yes, and solar panel based production is about as expensive as it comes.

Sylvia.

 

[Davo]

Sylvia Else wrote:

terryc wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 02:55:00 +0000, Mauried wrote:


Even more interesting is why they are happy to hand out $8K grants for
Solar PV , but only $1.5K for solar hot water heaters. The Hot Water
Heaters win hands down for energy saved versus cost, but it seems that
saving energy isnt as "warm and fuzzy" as making energy.

The solar HWS is a personal thing that only reduces demand for
electricity. The PV installation reduces demand for electricity and
has the potential to boost the mains supply at times of greatest demand.

It's a very expensive way of supporting peak load.

Sylvia.

No it's not. This was all discussed a few weeks ago. You're either a
slow learner or mischievous.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Davo wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
terryc wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 02:55:00 +0000, Mauried wrote:


Even more interesting is why they are happy to hand out $8K grants for
Solar PV , but only $1.5K for solar hot water heaters. The Hot Water
Heaters win hands down for energy saved versus cost, but it seems that
saving energy isnt as "warm and fuzzy" as making energy.

The solar HWS is a personal thing that only reduces demand for
electricity. The PV installation reduces demand for electricity and
has the potential to boost the mains supply at times of greatest demand.

It's a very expensive way of supporting peak load.

Sylvia.

No it's not. This was all discussed a few weeks ago. You're either a
slow learner or mischievous.

Just because it was discussed a few weeks ago doesn't mean that it's not
a very expensive way of supporting peak load.

Sylvia.