Solar cell modules

[Roger Gt]

X-No-Archive: yes
"Richard Henry" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote
:
: > The savages who lived here didn't own the land,
: Who did? The King of Spain?

At first? Dates? No one. Why does everything have to belong to
someone? There was only mostly nomadic tribes who had no
concept of ownership.

Why do you ask? Did you flunk history?

Spain got involved later and After the formation of America lost
part of his holdings to America. READ, it will inform you!

 

[maxfoo]

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:11:39 GMT, "Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote:

No... Regan did not and could not pardon Illegals, he didn't have
that power. He would have been recalled had he even suggested it,
and the problem is much worse now!

Sure he had the power. Just as Jimmy Carter granted amnesty to the draft dodgers
that ran to Canada.




Remove "HeadFromButt", before replying by email.

 

[Roger Gt]

X-No-Archive: yes
"Fred B. McGalliard" <frederick.b.mcgalliard@boeing.com> wrote in
message news:HwFJ9p.L7H@news.boeing.com...
: Roger has been listening to those who have a nice tidy
explanation of
: everything. Sometime you want to try to explain to him how come
our lettuce
: is so cheap.

As opposed to Fred, who makes up the numbers and decides
everything on his personal bias.

: "Roger Gt" wrote
: ...
: > Is that why 18% of inmates in the Oregon prison system are
: > illegals? Nearly one third of petty criminals in Southern Ca
are also
: > illegals.
:
: Actually, this probably has more to do with the great public
defender they
: are likely to get.

At taxpayer expense and THAT is another cost of their criminal
activity.

: > You haven't got the perspective! They sleep on the streets
and
: > hang out at businesses hoping to be offered work and have
: > destroyed whole neighborhoods.
:
: Well, I lived down in Orange County CA for a long time.

Sure happy to hear you are gone.

: I must admit that
: there are some offensive things going on, but most of the
illegals I know
: about are not the quintessential Hobos of our modern society.
Too much risk
: in coming above "the man's" radar. They hang with their extended
families,
: and out in the farming districts where they get seasonal work.
Big
: population in Colorado for some reason.

I agree, not all are hobos, but then I didn't use that word. And
the hobos were not criminals either!

: > The problem is spreading and it is
: > really bad the nearer you get to the boarder. Farmers along
the
: > border have their crops and equipment stolen or spoiled and
have
: > to maintain a security patrol to keep their homes from being
: > broken into. These people are criminals and do not respect
any
: > laws.
:
: Beg pardon. These people, except for course for the drug mules
that we pay
: to bring us our cheap drugs, are the brightest, best, and most
ambitious of
: a seriously abused population. We might solve 90% of our
problems, at the
: cost of a bit more expensive lettuce, by making them semi legals
and
: preventing their abuse.

I grow my own lettuce, it is an easy crop. Like Chard and many
other vegetables. Good home crops. I know no one who uses drugs,
except Fred, and if these are the brightest and best what a
cesspool they must come from. They should fix their own problems
where they come from, but they would rather sponge off the US.
Deporting is the least sever solution. It would actually solve
many problems.


: ... (subject. Paying taxes.)
: > Not then, nor now! They are a major burden on the state to the
: > tune of about $4b a year!
:
: Whew! Is that all? They are responsible for around 12 billion in
company
: proffits, of which they get around 3 billion, and out of that
they pay
: around half billion in sales taxes. Actually I expect their
employers
: collect federal and state tax from their salary, and pay it to
themselves. I
: think that overall our illegal emegrants likely provide us more
benifit than
: cost, and on top of that they are such an easy target for racial
and
: cultural hatred. Easy to blame our total failure to provide for
our own poor
: by calling them all illegals because some few are, horror of
horrors, unable
: to get legally admitted to our official version of heaven.
:
: BTB, I just made up the numbers for the heck of it. Sounds
reasonable to me,
: so find better ones.

For those that do not know Fred, he is great at making up numbers
and metaphor's to redefine a problem to fit his biased view.
Works for him, ticks everyone else off!

 

[Roger Gt]

"maxfoo" <maxfooHeadFromButt@punkass.com> wrote in message
newsu78805lcl9t5qf8v4ckf6lpbhiarpmenj@4ax.com...
: On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:11:39 GMT, "Roger Gt" <not@here.net>
wrote:
:
: >No... Regan did not and could not pardon Illegals, he didn't
have
: >that power. He would have been recalled had he even suggested
it,
: >and the problem is much worse now!
:
: Sure he had the power. Just as Jimmy Carter granted amnesty to
the draft dodgers
: that ran to Canada.
:

When Regan was governor? What has that to do with immigration?

 

[maxfoo]

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:11:24 GMT, "Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote:

When Regan was governor? What has that to do with immigration?

Reagan was Governor from 1967-1975, didn't think illegals were on the radar

back then. During his presidency in the 1980s they were noticeable. I lived in
LA til '86...so thought you were referring to that time period.




Remove "HeadFromButt", before replying by email.

 

[Fred B. McGalliard]

"Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com> wrote in message
news:KxUgc.24273$ab3.3968@fed1read02...

"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
news:fLTgc.38581$Xr3.21091@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...

The savages who lived here didn't own the land,

Who did? The King of Spain?

No. The tribes "owned" the land they could defend with their ferocity,
cunning, and a sharp stick or flint ax. They did not farm as individuals but
as extended families, so they had no need to own the land as individuals.
The horse, and the steel blades changed all that quite rapidly in historic
terms, well before the settlers started to sweep across the country.

 

[Watson A.Name \"Watt Sun]

Highland Ham wrote:

Last month I went to Palm springs for the Faire, and there was no
noticeable difference in the numbers of windmills in operation.

=====================
Having seen these machines near Palm Springs ,they seem to be rather small
and of an older design.

Rather small?!!!! You call 350kW or more with blades 150 Feet (45m)
long *SMALL*????

Modern machines are much bigger (up to 2 MW rated capacity) and more
reliable.

Even bigger!

In the Netherlands they are now planning a number of 2MW machines offshore
,approx 8 kms off the coast placed on seabed based stuctures.
Their designers are focussing on minimum maintenance ( only once every 3
years) .

To date land based machines produce on average only 16% of their rated
capacity ,due to periods without adequate wind and to technical outage /
maintenance. Yet they seem profitable. In the Netherlands many farmers have
them on their land ,especially
in the northern provinces.

I'd like to know what has to be done to get the generated power back
into the grid.

> Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

 

[Watson A.Name \"Watt Sun]

Winfield Hill wrote:

Highland Ham wrote...

Having seen these machines near Palm Springs, they seem to be
rather small and of an older design.

I wonder if they shouldn't be replaced, that's prime wind territory.

Well, you know that the coops or companies that built them had to invest
heavily and borrow money to finance their construction. What makes you
think they can just tear down the old ones before they've paid off their
loans, and borrow even more heavily to finance new ones??

In the Netherlands many farmers have them on their land, especially
in the northern provinces.

Do they rent the space to the wind-generator owners, or do they each
install and maintain them themselves? Is there a subsidized rate for
the sale of electricity to the grid?

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com

 

[Richard Henry]

"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
news:m8Vgc.38613$ie4.16232@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...

READ, it will inform you!

That's pretty funny.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:11:39 GMT) it happened "Roger Gt"
<not@here.net> wrote in <fLTgc.38581$Xr3.21091@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>:

So 'savages' and 'from the east' and 'cannibals'?

Pretty much describes US in Iraq.
You <---- have to understand human.

Your recollection of history seems a bit tinted too.
Why not give the indiens (spelling?) their land back ;-)?
JP

 

[Hal Murray]

Well, you know that the coops or companies that built them had to invest
heavily and borrow money to finance their construction. What makes you
think they can just tear down the old ones before they've paid off their
loans, and borrow even more heavily to finance new ones??

That's "simple" economics. If the site is more valuable than the
equipment on it, then somebody will buy the site from the current
owner and install newer more efficient gear and make more money.

--
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California. So are all my
other mailboxes. Please do not send unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited
commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org address or any of my other addresses.
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.

 

[KR Williams]

In article <c61hta$tfu$1@news.f.de.plusline.net>,
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com says...

On a sunny day (Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:11:39 GMT) it happened "Roger Gt"
not@here.net> wrote in <fLTgc.38581$Xr3.21091@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>:


So 'savages' and 'from the east' and 'cannibals'?
Pretty much describes US in Iraq.
You <---- have to understand human.

Your recollection of history seems a bit tinted too.
Why not give the indiens (spelling?) their land back ;-)

Get back on your drugs. You can't even spell (and are too lazy
to look up "Indians", you know sorta like "India").

--
Keith

 

[KR Williams]

In article <408355B0.8BCF6208@my.mailbox>, NOspam@my.mailbox
says...

KR Williams wrote:

In article <c5mqgb$23pc$1@news.wplus.net>,
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com says...
On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:57:18 GMT) it happened
ehsjr@bellatlantic.net wrote in <407E2458.C40B070D@bellatlantic.net>:

...snip...

Add that in, and the cost of a $15000 system is
much worse - over 30,000 in a 25 year, 7% mortgage.

You have to take into account that the cost of a kWh from
the grid in 25 years will be a LOT higher too, if there
still is a grid during and after WW3 that is.

That's silly economics. I do not have to take into account the
cost of electricity in 25 years. I can wait. Solar cells are
becoming cheaper too. When the cost of the solar cell is less
than the cost of power from the grid I can switch, saving all of
the negative amortization inbetween, and have a *new* system in
25 years, just as you're in need of replacing yours. ;-)

My guess though, is that solar cells for the individual will
never become cheaper than power from the grid, since the power
company has access to the same technology and a *lot* better
financing possibilities. ...and they don't have to have the pay-
back in my lifetime.

They have access to the tech, BUT, they also have to maintain the
distribution system. Since my electricity has been unbundled,
roughly half of my cost per Kwh goes to the distribution co., not the
producer. Ice storms, drunk drivers, blown line fuses all cost money.
As well as the personel and associated benefits packages,
transportation costs of materials, etc. for maintaining the lines.
All this is avoided cost on home solar.

There is still a huge advantage of scale. Without the grid
you'll have to store your own energy, which is certainly not
free. Peak energy usage is not near peak insolation.

And...
www.solaraccess.com/news/story?storyid=6482

talking about a new discovery:

"A solar cell with the simplest possible physical structure could
achieve 50 percent efficiency or better, far higher than any yet
demonstrated in the laboratory."

Irrelevant. The large producers will have any technology you
will, first and on a much more massive scale.

It isn't cost effective for most of us yet, but the tipping point
is coming.

So is the end of the oil reserves. It's been coming twenty years
from now, for about a hundred years. The tipping point will
certainly come, but the large generators will make it there
before your piss-ant house will.

--
Keith

 

[Anthony Matonak]

KR Williams wrote:

In article <408355B0.8BCF6208@my.mailbox>, NOspam@my.mailbox
says...
It isn't cost effective for most of us yet, but the tipping point
is coming.

So is the end of the oil reserves. It's been coming twenty years
from now, for about a hundred years. The tipping point will
certainly come, but the large generators will make it there
before your piss-ant house will.

I think the main point is that solar PV is a technology that
does not require massive infrastructure. It's something that
can be done on an individual and distributed basis. The big
power companies really don't have that much advantage over
individuals.

Anthony

 

[Roger Gt]

X-No-Archive: yes
"maxfoo" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote
: >
: >When Regan was governor? What has that to do with immigration?
: >
: Reagan was Governor from 1967-1975, didn't think illegals were
on the radar
: back then. During his presidency in the 1980s they were
noticeable. I lived in
: LA til '86...so thought you were referring to that time period.
:
Nope... But when D.D. Eisenhower was president he declared
martial law and cleared out the majority of the Illegals. I can't
see why that wouldn't work again.

 

[Paul Keinanen]

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 00:11:09 +0100, "Highland Ham"
<xygm0csz.wvkn6wh@ntlworld.com> wrote:

To date land based machines produce on average only 16% of their rated
capacity ,due to periods without adequate wind and to technical outage /
maintenance. Yet they seem profitable. In the Netherlands many farmers have
them on their land ,especially
in the northern provinces.

Those 16 % rated capacity figures seems to be quite low, since usually
20-30 % is quoted for land based windmills near the coast over here.
Of course, if you use a too big generator for a particular place and
wing size, the percentage will go down.

If you use a smaller generator with the same turbine and same
location, the percentage will go up, however, during stronger winds
you can only utilise the amount of power as the generator is rated for
and some of the wind energy is "lost" during stronger winds compared
to a larger generator.

During system design, you can select the percentage by selecting the
generator size. The generator cost compared to the other costs of the
windmill will determine the most economical generator size and thus
also this percentage.

Paul OH3LWR

 

[Richard Henry]

"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
news:j52hc.38758$rw1.37655@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...

X-No-Archive: yes
"maxfoo" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote
:
: >When Regan was governor? What has that to do with immigration?
:
: Reagan was Governor from 1967-1975, didn't think illegals were
on the radar
: back then. During his presidency in the 1980s they were
noticeable. I lived in
: LA til '86...so thought you were referring to that time period.
:
Nope... But when D.D. Eisenhower was president he declared
martial law and cleared out the majority of the Illegals. I can't
see why that wouldn't work again.

Martial law? I must have missed that.

 

[Fred B. McGalliard]

"Anthony Matonak" <res04ijs@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:4084A4A5.7000401@verizon.net...
....

I think the main point is that solar PV is a technology that
does not require massive infrastructure. It's something that
can be done on an individual and distributed basis. The big
power companies really don't have that much advantage over
individuals.

Sorry Anthony, but I think this is quite wrong. Solar PV requires a very
large infrastructure to build, and a substantial infrastructure to maintain.
The cells may last 100 years, but the inverters, storage batteries and the
like, are more typically 5-10 years. And, many of us do not live where
sunlight is all that reliable. The more unreliable, the larger and more
expensive the system that is required, and the more severe compromises have
to be made to keep the night light on. The PV systems, to obtain maximum
practical usage for the civilization as a whole, need to be installed in
mass in the desert regions down in the temperate zones in the us, Texas and
like that. This puts the big power companies in the cat bird seat, still.
But it is that, or pay 3-4 times as much for the same electricity from a
system that gives you constant headaches maintaining yourself, and one that
may actually consume more power to build and install than it can produce in
it's life, because we insist on living where we want instead of where solar
power pays off.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:18:45 -0700, Anthony Matonak
<res04ijs@verizon.net> wrote:
[snip]

I think the main point is that solar PV is a technology that
does not require massive infrastructure. It's something that
can be done on an individual and distributed basis.

The big
power companies really don't have that much advantage over
individuals.

Anthony

Sure they do. While you are dicking around with solar cells the big
power companies will build a solar-powered steam plant with *huge*
servo'd mirrors. I put pencil-to-paper once upon a time... you can do
marvelously if you've got the acreage.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Watson A.Name \"Watt Sun]

Anthony Matonak wrote:

KR Williams wrote:

In article <408355B0.8BCF6208@my.mailbox>, NOspam@my.mailbox says...

It isn't cost effective for most of us yet, but the tipping point
is coming.

So is the end of the oil reserves. It's been coming twenty years from
now, for about a hundred years.

Your _doomsday_ assertion that oil reserves are ending is totally
ridiculous. There are a zillion gallons of oil locked up in shale in
North America, just waiting for an economical way to extract them.
Problem is, they cost too much to extract, so that's not practical
_at_this_time_. But if the price of petroleum continues to go up, then
finally someday the point will come where the cost to extract it *is*
competitive. Then it will get included in reserves.

Another possibility is that if the cost of petroleum continues to rise,
the cost of alternative energy sources may become more competitive, and
will replace petroleum. Alcohol from corn is one that comes to mind.

Maybe if the cost of gas goes up another buck or so, I'll be able to
drive down the street without having to fight so much traffic. All
those gas guzzling vehicles will drive their owners to the poorhouse and
they'll stay off the roads. ;-)

The tipping point will certainly
come, but the large generators will make it there before your piss-ant
house will.

I think the main point is that solar PV is a technology that
does not require massive infrastructure. It's something that
can be done on an individual and distributed basis. The big
power companies really don't have that much advantage over
individuals.

Anthony