Silicon Chip Online Edition!!

[David L. Jones]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 01:20:18 +1100, Bob Parker <bobp@bluebottle.com>
wrote:

For your info, I've got all the e-mail addresses on my website
HTML-encoded, which seems to stop the slimy sleazy American
spammer-bots from recognizing them. Have a look at
http://www.wbwip.com/wbw/emailencoder.html if you're not already
familiar with this technique (you probably are).

Bob

Thanks Bob, I wasn't aware of that technique.
I just use the text method like david AT email DOT com, so the user
has to convert it themselves manually. I figure it's harder for the
spam bots to get these than using a mailto: field, even if it does
contain HTML encoded characters. The spam bots are getting pretty
smart, so I figure it won't take them long until they can decode the
HTML encoded method. The mailto: field seems to provide an instant and
easy search marker.

Regards
Dave
---------------------------
(remove the "_" from my email address to reply)

 

[Rod Speed]

"Mainlander" <*@*.*> wrote in message news:MPG.1a764a95f9ee442998a520@news.paradise.net.nz...

In article <buep7i$h4k5u$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de>,
rod_speed@yahoo.com says...

Phil Allison <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:400a70ca$0$16588$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
dmmilne@home.now> wrote

BTW, CC's pdfs also contain their advertisers, and most (if not all)
have their own websites, so I cannot see how Phil's statement that
advertisers marketing value is lower with on-line mags is relevant.

What you "cannot see" is your problem. The specifics of SC's
situation must not to be ignored and are not similar to CC's.

SC's major advertisers are DSE and Jaycar.

Think it all the way through - if you have the mental capacity.

Or maybe you should.

Its likely that those who prefer the online version of SC for its convenience
would already be using the DSE and Jaycar web sites and wouldnt be
bothering much with the ads in the printed mags and even if they do,
there is no reason why the ads cant be in the online version of SC.

You dont know what the ratio of advertising
revenue to cover price revenue is with SC.

And you dont know that what Simpson is worried about is just
people sharing online subs and that producing a nett loss in
subs revenue because its a lot easier to share an online subs.

It's very easy to share magazines - especially through public libraries

MUCH easier to share pdfs. Even you should be able to manage that.

 

[David L. Jones]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:30:21 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Its MUCH more likely that Simpson isnt too keen on
the risk that a significant number will choose to share
a single electronic subs when its so easy to do if the
electronic version was distributed in pdf form and the
effect that would have on subscription revenue.

But it clearly aint sunk Circuit Cellar.

Yes, they must be doing something right.

I get the electronic version of CC, and it's something like a 10MB+
compressed download per issue, 30-40MB when unzipped to PDF. A REAL
pain in the butt to distribute to your mates if you or them only have
a dialup connection. You can also download individual smaller segments
of the mag, but that's too much trouble.

You can share your access password by email, but it's easy to track
how many times a users login downloads a particular issue. I don't
know if CC do this, but I know other online publications that do.

You could upload to a free website and then distribute the details,
but really it's all too much trouble unless your mates are splitting
the rates with you. But if the price is low, almost trivial, like CC,
why would anyone bother?

All up, the few that would bother trying to share a single sub
probably isn't worth worrying about. Most likely you wouldn't loose
many subscribers over it, if anything you might gain some readers and
extra subs by the pirates who like the mag and can't wait for their
friend to send it to them by email because they are lazy etc - if the
cost is low enough to make it a trivial decision.

I for one never bought CC before the online edition came out, and was
tempted to get it because of it's trival price.

Dave
---------------------------
(remove the "_" from my email address to reply)

 

[Rod Speed]

"Mainlander" <*@*.*> wrote in message news:MPG.1a764b6855a9d2b798a521@news.paradise.net.nz...

In article <400B081B.16E11BE6@woa.com.au>, terryc@woa.com.au says...
dmmilne@home.now wrote:

...snip.....

BTW, CC's pdfs also contain their advertisers, and most (if not all)
have their own websites, so I cannot see how Phil's statement that
advertisers marketing value is lower with on-line mags is relevant.

The "waiting room effect" is not present in a online/pdf version. The
concept is that copies end up in various "waiting rooms" where people
congregate and can be read/seen over and over again. It is a major
selling point for certain magazines.

Plus, printed versions leave fossils {. Decades later, people can
find it and make enquiries based on adds, e.g Readers digest at
jumble/garage sales/fetes/etc.

Plus, big plus,

Nope.

only a percentage of the population in any
country have access to the internet anyway

That just ensures that that many wont bother with the electronic version.

And its distinctly arguable if there are many if
any readers of SC that dont have net access.

There will certainly be some that prefer the printed version.

 

[Rod Speed]

David L. Jones <tronnort_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:400b8ce1.3093602@News.CIS.DFN.DE...

Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

Its MUCH more likely that Simpson isnt too keen on
the risk that a significant number will choose to share
a single electronic subs when its so easy to do if the
electronic version was distributed in pdf form and the
effect that would have on subscription revenue.

But it clearly aint sunk Circuit Cellar.

Yes, they must be doing something right.

I get the electronic version of CC, and it's something like
a 10MB+ compressed download per issue, 30-40MB
when unzipped to PDF. A REAL pain in the butt to distribute
to your mates if you or them only have a dialup connection.

I never had any problem with stuff that size when I used dialup.

You just put it up on your web site and let them help themselves.

You can also download individual smaller
segments of the mag, but that's too much trouble.

Not hard to automate.

You can share your access password by email, but it's easy to track
how many times a users login downloads a particular issue. I don't
know if CC do this, but I know other online publications that do.

Sure.

You could upload to a free website and then distribute the details,

Yep, or just tell them where to look and let them get it off there.

but really it's all too much trouble unless
your mates are splitting the rates with you.

Sure, but they normally would be doing that.

But if the price is low, almost trivial, like CC, why would anyone bother?

Sure.

All up, the few that would bother trying to share
a single sub probably isn't worth worrying about.

Wouldnt bet on that, bet plenty do that. I know plenty do
with other electronic publications that have to be paid for.

Most likely you wouldn't loose many subscribers over it,

Bet you'd be surprised.

if anything you might gain some readers and extra subs
by the pirates who like the mag and can't wait for their
friend to send it to them by email because they are lazy
etc - if the cost is low enough to make it a trivial decision.

Sure.

I for one never bought CC before the online edition came out,

I did.

and was tempted to get it because of it's trival price.

Yeah, its one very viable approach.

Too much for Simpson to manage tho.

 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:41:32 +1100, "Phil Allison" <philallison@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

dmmilne@home.now


BTW, CC's pdfs also contain their advertisers, and most (if not all)
have their own websites, so I cannot see how Phil's statement that
advertisers marketing value is lower with on-line mags is relevant.


** What you "cannot see" is your problem. The specifics of SC's situation
must not to be ignored and are not similar to CC's.

I believe I noted the probable lack of SC's worldwide sales, as compared to
CC's, and the the assertion that SC is a 'hobbyist mag', in the next paragraph
of my previous post in this thread. You have not said what any other "specifics
of SC's situation" are, apart from the somewhat woolly-headed claim that

"Phil Allison" <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:<4007b74b$0$26116$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...

The marketing value to advertisers of ads included with an on-line magazine
is lower than when the same appears in printed form ( since most
advertisers have good web sites of their own already) - SC know this and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah? And they've all got business addresses too. Many (most?) include their
URLs in their advertisements. But so what..?? It's not relevant. SC doesn't act
as a distributor for any of the companies that advertise with them.

hence are not about the commit publishing Hari-Kari.
yada yada yada...

SC's major advertisers are DSE and Jaycar.

So what. It's irrelevant as to who SC's major advertisers are, as long as SC
have got clients who are willing to advertise in their magazine, and who will
pay their bills.

Think it all the way through - if you have the mental capacity.

I wouldn't piss in your ear even if your brain was on fire.

BTW, this thread is closed as far as I'm concerned. Rod Speed has whipped your
arse here (again), and you still came back for more. You've probably got
masochist tendencies, along all your other psychosis that are harder to
pronounce, and much harder to spell..

............ Phil

 

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:26:35 +1100, Terry Collins <terryc@woa.com.au> wrote:

dmmilne@home.now wrote:

...snip.....

BTW, CC's pdfs also contain their advertisers, and most (if not all)
have their own websites, so I cannot see how Phil's statement that
advertisers marketing value is lower with on-line mags is relevant.

The "waiting room effect" is not present in a online/pdf version. The
concept is that copies end up in various "waiting rooms" where people
congregate and can be read/seen over and over again. It is a major
selling point for certain magazines.

Uh, huh. The only thing is, I've never seen any type of electronics magazine in
any waiting room (with the exception of waiting for an interview), much less one
that has an on-line version. They're mostly Wheels, Motor, Yachting, GHM, all
very interesting, and they're just some that are at my hairdressers place.

Plus, printed versions leave fossils {. Decades later, people can
find it and make enquiries based on adds, e.g Readers digest at
jumble/garage sales/fetes/etc.

Assuming the companies that advertised are still in business.

 

[Phil Allison]

<dmmilne@home.now> >

Phil A wrote:

Think it all the way through - if you have the mental capacity.

I wouldn't piss in your ear even if your brain was on fire.

** Milne - you are one pig ignorant, pathetic cunt.

Not one word of you fucking stupid posts makes any sense.

BTW, this thread is closed as far as I'm concerned.

** What a posturing, gutless turd you are Milne.

Scum like you are a dime a dozen.

Rod Speed has whipped your arse here (again), and you still came back for
more.

** The Rodbot could not whip an egg.

He uses every imaginable fallacy and cheat to evade the need for real
knowledge, insight or logical reasoning.

Much the same as you.




........... Phil

 

[Bob Parker]

I read about a fairly recent trial where a variety of methods were
tested to see how the sleazy slimy unemployable brain-dead American
spammers harvest e-mail addresses. It involved putting brand-new
addresses up on live websites, on newsgroups and in chat rooms etc
then sitting back and seeing how much spam they all got.
At the time, the HTML-encoded addresses on websites didn't get any
at all, suggesting that the spammer bots at that time weren't smart
enough to decode them. They are about as smart as spammers themselves
who have the idea that people who go to great lengths to avoid being
spammed will eagerly buy their snake oil if they can just defeat all
the countermeasures.
Getting back down from my soap-box, I can tell you that I get
negligible spam to any of the addresses on my website. All of it's the
result of putting my real addresses on newsgroups years ago.
If you think I'm fuming because I get up to and sometimes more than
300 spams every day from low-life scum American spammers, wasting 30
minutes of my time, you'd be right.

Bob



tronnort_@yahoo.com (David L. Jones) wrote:

Thanks Bob, I wasn't aware of that technique.
I just use the text method like david AT email DOT com, so the user
has to convert it themselves manually. I figure it's harder for the
spam bots to get these than using a mailto: field, even if it does
contain HTML encoded characters. The spam bots are getting pretty
smart, so I figure it won't take them long until they can decode the
HTML encoded method. The mailto: field seems to provide an instant and
easy search marker.

Regards
Dave
---------------------------
(remove the "_" from my email address to reply)

 

[Rod Speed]

<dmmilne@home.now> wrote in message news:qfpk00l61ifho2mlj7dhjjl4v2hs4btvag@4ax.com...

paulh@adelaide.on.net (Paul Howard) wrote

I think Phil might be right, but I would generally choose
a printed version over an online one, because you can't
read a pdf file sitting on the loo.

I purchase both Circuit Cellar's on-line and the paper copies.
The pdf subscription only cost me US$5 last May,

How come ? The current price is US$15 per year.

The paper versions cost far greater when purchasing
from a local newsagent, so much so that I'm going to
buy a paper subscription direct from the US.

BTW, CC's pdfs also contain their advertisers, and most (if not all)
have their own websites, so I cannot see how Phil's statement that
advertisers marketing value is lower with on-line mags is relevant.

I can't imagine that Silicon Chip has the world-wide circulation that
Circuit Cellar enjoys, thus not wanting to reduce the price of the
pdf, as compared to the paper media. Anyway, it's early days yet. SC
may decide to reduce the cost of their pdfs to stimulate sales. I'd
like to see them producing magazines that have articles that are
stimulating, have new ideas, etc. Perhaps if Leo et.al. advertised in
Hong Kong, Japan, India, etc, for new writers/articles/projects, SC
may become more interesting, as such I feel it's little more than a
mag for hobbyists.

"Phil Allison" <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:<4007b74b$0$26116$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
** All valid points - but a magazine does not live off the cover price.

It lives in fact off the advertising space it sells.

The marketing value to advertisers of ads included with an on-line magazine
is lower than when the same appears in printed form ( since most
advertisers have good web sites of their own already) - SC know this and
hence are not about the commit publishing Hari-Kari.




............. Phil

 

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 08:55:21 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:

dmmilne@home.now> wrote in message news:qfpk00l61ifho2mlj7dhjjl4v2hs4btvag@4ax.com...
paulh@adelaide.on.net (Paul Howard) wrote


I purchase both Circuit Cellar's on-line and the paper copies.
The pdf subscription only cost me US$5 last May,

How come ? The current price is US$15 per year.

They must have had a special deal at the time. I initially thought they were
doing it in conjunction with Atmel for a contest, but couldn't find any
reference to it in any of my mags from that period. I also revisited my credit
card statement tonight, and sure enough, they debited US$5.

 

[Rod Speed]

<dmmilne@home.now> wrote in message news:t7pp005mq3fl08gvc629796ssakqgl9jr6@4ax.com...

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 08:55:21 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:


dmmilne@home.now> wrote in message news:qfpk00l61ifho2mlj7dhjjl4v2hs4btvag@4ax.com...
paulh@adelaide.on.net (Paul Howard) wrote


I purchase both Circuit Cellar's on-line and the paper copies.
The pdf subscription only cost me US$5 last May,

How come ? The current price is US$15 per year.

They must have had a special deal at the time. I initially thought they were
doing it in conjunction with Atmel for a contest, but couldn't find any
reference to it in any of my mags from that period. I also revisited my credit
card statement tonight, and sure enough, they debited US$5.

Bugger, too late for me |-)

 

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:09:05 +1100, "Phil Allison" <philallison@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

dmmilne@home.now

Phil A wrote:


Think it all the way through - if you have the mental capacity.

I wouldn't piss in your ear even if your brain was on fire.


** Milne - you are one pig ignorant, pathetic cunt.

Not one word of you fucking stupid posts makes any sense.



BTW, this thread is closed as far as I'm concerned.


** What a posturing, gutless turd you are Milne.

Scum like you are a dime a dozen.



Rod Speed has whipped your arse here (again), and you still came back for
more.


** The Rodbot could not whip an egg.

He uses every imaginable fallacy and cheat to evade the need for real
knowledge, insight or logical reasoning.

Much the same as you.




.......... Phil

Wind him up, and off he goes...much like one of those clockwork monkeys banging
their cymbals together...

 

[Peter Parker]

"Terry Collins" <terryc@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:400B081B.16E11BE6@woa.com.au...

dmmilne@home.now wrote:

Plus, printed versions leave fossils {. Decades later, people can
find it and make enquiries based on adds

And sometimes you even get a reply : )

When I was a kid I was given a stack of old EA/RTV&H mags.

The Rosicrucians (Ancient Mystical Order Rosa Crucius iirc) advertised in
them saying you could send away for a free book called 'The Mastery of
Life'.

For some stupid reason I wrote to the address in the 20-year old magazine
and they sent me stuff!

Regards, Peter

 

[Bob Parker]

I remember those strange ads. "Thoughts Have Wings" with weird
pictures, and that kind of stuff.
Nice to know they're still going, I suppose!

Cheers,
Bob




"Peter Parker" <parkerp@NOSPAMalphalink.com.au> wrote:

"Terry Collins" <terryc@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:400B081B.16E11BE6@woa.com.au...
dmmilne@home.now wrote:

Plus, printed versions leave fossils {. Decades later, people can
find it and make enquiries based on adds

And sometimes you even get a reply : )

When I was a kid I was given a stack of old EA/RTV&H mags.

The Rosicrucians (Ancient Mystical Order Rosa Crucius iirc) advertised in
them saying you could send away for a free book called 'The Mastery of
Life'.

For some stupid reason I wrote to the address in the 20-year old magazine
and they sent me stuff!

Regards, Peter

 

[Peter Parker]

"Bob Parker" <bobp@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:6n6310p5r86qbhl008fh54p6m4l4pdtrd5@4ax.com...

I remember those strange ads. "Thoughts Have Wings" with weird
pictures, and that kind of stuff.

'Develop your inner conciousness' or some such thing. All these famous
people (eg Benjamin Franklin) were into it as were the ancient Babylonians.
The ads I remember had a pic of either a face or pyriamd with eye at its
apex.

(just found RTV&H Jan 1965 - it has a NZ address though I thought I wrote to
Sydney)

Nice to know they're still going, I suppose!

Which is more than can be said for most of the component/equipment suppliers
that advertised then.

They're on the web at: http://www.amorc.org.au/

Peter

 

[Bob Parker]

"Peter Parker" <parkerp@NOSPAMalphalink.com.au> wrote:

'Develop your inner conciousness' or some such thing. All these famous
people (eg Benjamin Franklin) were into it as were the ancient Babylonians.
The ads I remember had a pic of either a face or pyriamd with eye at its
apex.

Sounds like another Mystical Society like the Masons, or the "Stone
Cutters" in The Simpsons!

Which is more than can be said for most of the component/equipment suppliers
that advertised then.

Ah memories... Radio Despatch Service, George Brown, ACE Radio,
Classic Radio etc etc etc. Them were the Good Old Days! I think I'm
showing my age.

They're on the web at: http://www.amorc.org.au/

Thanks. I'll have a look if I get a chance!

Cheers,
Bob