Scooter Soldering Kit Battery

[Bob]

I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs without going to the
other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????

I know most soldering kits, you buy or build, usually require a
standard wall socket 120v/60w soldering iron and some 4AA batteries....

So I was wondering what would happen if I used a 12volt SLA 8 amp
battery, since the wall outlet is a about 90watts and the 12volt SLA battery
is also some 96 watts although it drops quickly to an easy 11 volts because
of a burned cell I'm guessing....

The math is there but some other factor is missing, I can't see the
power of a 12volt SLA battery to a mere 4 AAs ...........has anybody ever
tried this with a regular soldering iron for outdoor use???
--
Triad Productions-FantallaŽ~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
(http://tarbitch.balder.prohosting.com/htmlconc. html)

 

[GMAN]

In article <aia0p4187emllm0iargnv428kcejm3roie@4ax.com>, vampire@istar.ca wrote:

I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs without going to the
other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????

I know most soldering kits, you buy or build, usually require a
standard wall socket 120v/60w soldering iron and some 4AA batteries....

So I was wondering what would happen if I used a 12volt SLA 8 amp
battery, since the wall outlet is a about 90watts and the 12volt SLA battery
is also some 96 watts although it drops quickly to an easy 11 volts because
of a burned cell I'm guessing....

The math is there but some other factor is missing, I can't see the
power of a 12volt SLA battery to a mere 4 AAs ...........has anybody ever
tried this with a regular soldering iron for outdoor use???
Why not just buy a 12v soldering iron?

 

[Who Me?]

"Bob" <rkba@armageddon.info> wrote

I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs

Yes. You should have stopped right there........

without going to the
other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????

.......as the rest of your post pretty much makes no sense.

Also, for about $5 from Harbor Freight or JC Whitney or similar you can get
a pencil size butane torch.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <aia0p4187emllm0iargnv428kcejm3roie@4ax.com>,
Bob <rkba@armageddon.info> wrote:

I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular 12v/60w
soldering iron to do local soldering repairs without going to the other
fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????

I know most soldering kits, you buy or build, usually require a
standard wall socket 120v/60w soldering iron and some 4AA batteries....

Eh? Loads of 12 volt soldering irons on the market. Here's one:-

http://store.voltelectronics.com.au/Items/17830?&caSKU=17830&caTitle=60W%2012%20Volt%20Soldering%20Iron

If the scooter is 12 volts the simple way would be to fit a car accessory
socket which the iron plug will fit. But make sure it has a suitable fuse
close to where you wire it into the scooter wiring or battery.

So I was wondering what would happen if I used a 12volt SLA 8 amp
battery, since the wall outlet is a about 90watts and the 12volt SLA
battery is also some 96 watts although it drops quickly to an easy 11
volts because of a burned cell I'm guessing....

The math is there but some other factor is missing, I can't see the
power of a 12volt SLA battery to a mere 4 AAs ...........has anybody
ever tried this with a regular soldering iron for outdoor use???

Bit difficult to to actually guess what you mean but I'll have a go.

Is the scooter 12 volts? Does it use a SLA battery? Or a sealed car type
one? Because the type of charger needed for true SLA is different from
'sealed' types, and using a charger for the latter will likely fry a true
SLA.

BTW - batteries aren't measure in watts but amp hours. They might also
give a maximum load in amps.

--
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[.]

On Feb 9, 5:07 am, Bob <r...@armageddon.info> wrote:

        I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs

Why not? No more current will pass through the heating coil than the
resistance of said coil allows to pass.

If you're worried about damaging the soldering iron, put a 10 amp fuse
in the input wiring. 10 amps should be twice the normal maximum
current draw of the 12 volt iron. (1)

        I know most soldering kits, you buy or build, usually require a
standard wall socket 120v/60w soldering iron and some 4AA batteries....

The AA batteries would provide half an amp of current to the heating
coil of the soldering iron, but wouldn't have the ampere hour capacity
to keep supplying the
1/2 an amp the iron draws.

        So I was wondering what would happen if I used a 12volt SLA 8 amp
battery, since the wall outlet is a about 90watts

If your wall outlet has a 30 amp breaker or fuse, it will supply 3600
watts, not 90 watts.

and the 12volt SLA battery
is also some 96 watts although it drops quickly to an easy 11 volts because
of a burned cell I'm guessing....

Your battery may be old and could be dehydrated or has sulfated
plates.

Your fully charged 8 ampere hour battery should provide 8 amperes to a
load for
one hour without the voltage dropping below 12 volts. If it quickly
drops to 11 volts under load, it's not fully charged.

The resting voltage of a fully charged SLA battery half an hour after
charging should be 12.8 volts.

You can find battery state of charge charts online which will tell you
what the state of charge of a lead acid battery is, according to
resting voltage.

        The math is there but some other factor is missing, I can't see the
power of a 12volt SLA battery to a mere 4 AAs ...........

The missing factor in your understanding seems to be the concept of
*ampere hour capacity*.

has anybody ever
tried this with a regular soldering iron for outdoor use???

No, I never tried that, but...

Work out the Ohm's law for your 120 volt soldering iron, or measure
the resistance of the coil and you'll see how many amps it draws from
a 12 volt battery.

The heating coil doesn't know what the source of power is, it just
heats up according to the current it receives.

(1) You might want to research the coefficient of resistance of
nichrome wire to see what the resistance is when the wire gets hot
enough to melt solder.

 

[TOG@Toil]

On 9 Feb, 13:07, Bob <r...@armageddon.info> wrote:

        I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs

I really wouldn't. A scooter battery is so small it'll flatten quickly
(unless you keep it attached to a charger while soldering). Just buy a
proper mains current soldering iron. It's not like they're expensive.

That's the simple answer.

 

[ian field]

"Who Me?" <hitchhiker@dont.panic> wrote in message
news:10Xjl.16439$yr3.7316@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...

"Bob" <rkba@armageddon.info> wrote

I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs

Yes. You should have stopped right there........

without going to the
other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????

......as the rest of your post pretty much makes no sense.

Also, for about $5 from Harbor Freight or JC Whitney or similar you can
get a pencil size butane torch.

The pencil size butane torch I have works very well - unfortunately the
catalysing solder tip that came with it is about as much use as a chocolate
teapot!

 

[Who Me?]

"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote

The pencil size butane torch I have works very well - unfortunately the
catalysing solder tip that came with it is about as much use as a
chocolate
teapot!

OK, so we are left with two options:
1) Practice soldering with a bare butane flame. The pencil torches can be
adjusted (after a short warm-up) to a flame small enough to do the
job.......but that IS an acquired skill.
OR
2) Spend a few extra bucks and get a "real" butane soldering pencil. I have
one and it works very good......."catalyzing" tip and all!

 

[.]

On Feb 9, 3:06 pm, "Who Me?" <hitchhi...@dont.panic> wrote:

OK, so we are left with two options:
1) Practice soldering with a bare butane flame. The pencil torches can be
adjusted (after a short warm-up) to a flame small enough to do the
job.......but that IS an acquired skill.

When I was working for Hughes Aircraft Company on prototype
electromechanical systems back in the late 1960's, one lab had a neat
little gadget called a "water welder".

It somehow used electricity to generate a flammable gas that came out
of the tiniest hole in the tip and I could use that flame to solder
sheet brass into compartmented prototype electronic chasses...

 

[Bob Shuman]

I'm not familiar with the device, but the description given of "water
welder" would imply the gas might be H2 (Hydrogen) which is indeed highly
flammable! Simple electrolysis of water (H2O) with an electric current
would produce both hydrogen and oxygen for combustion. The trick would be
in controlling the combustion process and in dealing with the resulting
byproduct water that was produced.

Bob

"." <RhiannonX@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cf8505ea-19fa-4669-b651-55281d10a81b@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 9, 3:06 pm, "Who Me?" <hitchhi...@dont.panic> wrote:

OK, so we are left with two options:
1) Practice soldering with a bare butane flame. The pencil torches can be
adjusted (after a short warm-up) to a flame small enough to do the
job.......but that IS an acquired skill.

When I was working for Hughes Aircraft Company on prototype
electromechanical systems back in the late 1960's, one lab had a neat
little gadget called a "water welder".

It somehow used electricity to generate a flammable gas that came out
of the tiniest hole in the tip and I could use that flame to solder
sheet brass into compartmented prototype electronic chasses...

 

[Who Me?]

"." <RhiannonX@gmail.com> wrote

When I was working for Hughes Aircraft Company on prototype
electromechanical systems back in the late 1960's, one lab had a neat
little gadget called a "water welder".

Aw hell. Now that's just downright disappointing.
I thought for sure you would tell us about the job you had when you INVENTED
fire.
;-)

 

[.]

On Feb 9, 5:48 pm, "Who Me?" <hitchhi...@dont.panic> wrote:

Aw hell.  Now that's just downright disappointing.
I thought for sure you would tell us about the job you had when you INVENTED
fire.

You're confused. The job title of my ancestor who discovered fire was
"Cave Bear Killer"... ;-)

 

[Paul aka Sporty]

"Bob" <rkba@armageddon.info> wrote in message
news:aia0p4187emllm0iargnv428kcejm3roie@4ax.com...

I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs without going to the
other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????

I know most soldering kits, you buy or build, usually require a
standard wall socket 120v/60w soldering iron and some 4AA batteries....

So I was wondering what would happen if I used a 12volt SLA 8 amp
battery, since the wall outlet is a about 90watts and the 12volt SLA
battery
is also some 96 watts although it drops quickly to an easy 11 volts
because
of a burned cell I'm guessing....

The math is there but some other factor is missing, I can't see the
power of a 12volt SLA battery to a mere 4 AAs ...........has anybody ever
tried this with a regular soldering iron for outdoor use???
--
Triad Productions-FantallaŽ~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
(http://tarbitch.balder.prohosting.com/htmlconc. html)

http://www.portasol.com/solderirons.html
I have one that's 20 years old and still works.
Paul aka Sporty


"Our groundbreaking product the Portasol 'Technic' was the first pocket
portable, butane powered, soldering iron. Standard issue in countless
service companies the Technic combines compact power and convenient
reliability. Adjustable from 10 to 60 watts equivalent power, the Technic
features 10-second refill, auto switch off, built-in ignitor and excellent
build quality. Accessories include a range of tips including a hot knife tip
for nylon rope and polymer cutting."

 

[Bob]

On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:33:50 GMT, paul c <toledobythesea@oohay.ac> wrote:

|>Mark Olson wrote:
|>...
|>> I was going to disagree but having thought about it I must agree.
|>> Under what circumstances would you need to *solder* anything on
|>> a bike or scooter, that couldn't wait until you reach someplace
|>> with mains power? ...
|>
|>I know Bob and if he's still living in that colourful part of town I remember, he must do his own maintenance on the street without access to household power. (Heh, heh, I'm lucky, relatively speaking, my trailer has a power outlet, only problem is in winter when I have to remember to turn off various appliances inside because of the whopping 30 amp service in the park!)


Thanx for all the input, but I came to the conclusion that I would
rather not risk "toasting" my soldering iron....one calculative post said
it would... in Message-ID: <cG2kl.3686$I93.960@newsfe18.iad>

The fact being that it is not absolutely necessary like an emergency
(when losing an iron would mean nothing).....although it may be a practical
emergency application, but who is going to tote a soldering iron around
under the already filled under seat scooter storage space.

I can get the bike to mains in my other place, but my parking place
has no electrical conveniences....

I needed to solder some 20 gauge wiring to those fine little piezo
speaker/siren/buzzer wires.


--
Triad Productions-FantallaŽ~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
(http://tarbitch.balder.prohosting.com/htmlconc. html)

 

[S'mee]

On Feb 9, 6:07 am, Bob <r...@armageddon.info> wrote:

        I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs without going to the
other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????

Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.

--
Keith

 

[R. LaCasse]

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:37:53 -0800 (PST), "S'mee"
<stevenkeith2@hotmail.com> wrote:

|>On Feb 9, 6:07 am, Bob <r...@armageddon.info> wrote:
|>>         I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
|>> 12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs without going to the
|>> other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????
|>
|>Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..

Maybe I'll go rob a crack head for his butane lighter for all the
use I would need it for on this crampy plastic application....

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <rph7p4lvl6q6drp84vk0nmb2dkpl0ek1qd@4ax.com>,
R. LaCasse <scooter@yamaha.info> wrote:

|>Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..

Wind is a problem with an electric soldering iron too.

Maybe I'll go rob a crack head for his butane lighter for all the
use I would need it for on this crampy plastic application....

--
*The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Who Me?]

"R. LaCasse" <scooter@yamaha.info> wrote

|>Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.

I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..

Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and the SHUT
THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts. Should be good for one
or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you figure that
out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the meltable parts........and
once it is up to temp. and you turn the "flame" down to a maintenance level,
there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.

 

[Paul aka Sporty]

"Who Me?" <hitchhiker@dont.panic> wrote in message
news:jbXkl.6923$jZ1.3381@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...

"R. LaCasse" <scooter@yamaha.info> wrote

|>Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.


I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..


Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and the SHUT
THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts. Should be good for
one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you figure
that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the meltable
parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn the "flame" down to a
maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.

The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other than solder
with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when using it.

 

[ian field]

"Paul aka Sporty" <whats@too.you> wrote in message
news:iFZkl.119$cW.35@newsreading01.news.tds.net...

"Who Me?" <hitchhiker@dont.panic> wrote in message
news:jbXkl.6923$jZ1.3381@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...

"R. LaCasse" <scooter@yamaha.info> wrote

|>Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.


I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..


Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and the
SHUT THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts. Should be good
for one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you figure
that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the meltable
parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn the "flame" down to
a maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.




The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other than
solder with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when using it.

A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually oxidised,
the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a tub of active
plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints - heat
shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.