Retailers call for GST on overseas sales

[kreed]

On Nov 5, 7:45 am, Doug Jewell <a...@and.maybe.ill.tell.you> wrote:

On 4/11/2010 6:22 PM, Mickel wrote:

Sounds fair enough to me except that it won't work because
the sellers always value the item at $2 for customs.

Customs can value items at fair market value, and charge GST
based on that, regardless of what the claimed value is.

It's good to see the retailers squirm, they quite often make
more profit than the manufacturers per item yet provide
little value (surely actually making something should be
valued higher than simply selling it).

It's not the retailers who are making a fortune, it's the
wholesalers. Look at Clive Peeters, Chandlers,  Retravision,
Brashs etc. Electronic goods are often 1/2 or lower in other
markets, so if the retailers were making 100-300% markups
they wouldn't go bust so frequently. Typical retail margins
on electronics is under 10%. On things like XBOX,
playstation etc, they are getting down to 3% and less, so if
you pay by credit card the retailer gets SFA.

My first digital camera I bought in about 2000. I bought it
in Australia, at wholesale price, which at the time I
thought was a good price. Soon after I had a holiday in the
US and saw the same camera in a shop there. My airfares + US
Retail Camera price was still cheaper than the Australian
wholesale price. IOW, forget postage, I could have flown
there, picked it up personally, and still paid less than
wholesale Australian price.

We are getting reamed, but it isn't the retailers. It is
further up the line.

--
What is the difference between a duck?

Similar story when I went to russia, paid about 60% of the price that
I would have here.

Additionally, when I looked in the local Harvey Norman back home, the
identical model was
not only more expensive but made in China, where the Identical Russian
marketed camera was
"Made in Japan".

Also got a decent hammer drill there for 25% of what the same model
was here. In both cases, only had to
change the plug to Australian. We have big big problems here when it
comes to providing value with our
retail sector.


Don't get me started on food either, identical brands there in small
shops there were frequently much
cheaper than supermarkets here. Brands you don't see here were
cheaper still, and those I tried were
similar quality.

Only exception was soft drink, was about the same.

Then I saw on TV when I returned "Moscow has the highest cost of
living in the world"
Obviously Australia was ignored in that survey, or they just lied to
make us feel better.

 

[John Tserkezis]

Don McKenzie wrote:

Retailers call for GST on overseas sales
STRUGGLING retailers want to spoil consumers' post-GFC party and put a
tax on overseas spending.
With new research showing half of all Australians now shop online
overseas, retailers have approached the Federal Government to wind back
the GST threshold on overseas goods from $1000 to $400 or even abolish
the limit altogether.

The retailers can get screwed.

I routinely bring in gear WITH GST paid from overseas that is cheaper
than buying it locally.
Sometimes obscenely cheaper. No really, I'm talking upwards of many
hundreds of dollars and I have to really wonder who is keeping it all.

If the retailers think GST on overseas purchases applied globally will
encourage local purchases, well, good luck with that.

If they want to play that game, bring it on.
--
Ninety per cent of everything is crap.

 

[Polly the Parrott]

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 21:46:18 +1100, John Tserkezis
<jt@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote:

Don McKenzie wrote:

Retailers call for GST on overseas sales
STRUGGLING retailers want to spoil consumers' post-GFC party and put a
tax on overseas spending.
With new research showing half of all Australians now shop online
overseas, retailers have approached the Federal Government to wind back
the GST threshold on overseas goods from $1000 to $400 or even abolish
the limit altogether.

The retailers can get screwed.

I routinely bring in gear WITH GST paid from overseas that is cheaper
than buying it locally.
Sometimes obscenely cheaper. No really, I'm talking upwards of many
hundreds of dollars and I have to really wonder who is keeping it all.

Usually the wholesalers - importers.

Most retailers don't import themselves.

If the retailers think GST on overseas purchases applied globally will
encourage local purchases, well, good luck with that.

If they want to play that game, bring it on.

 

[atec77]

On 5/11/2010 8:46 PM, John Tserkezis wrote:

Don McKenzie wrote:

Retailers call for GST on overseas sales
STRUGGLING retailers want to spoil consumers' post-GFC party and put a
tax on overseas spending.
With new research showing half of all Australians now shop online
overseas, retailers have approached the Federal Government to wind back
the GST threshold on overseas goods from $1000 to $400 or even abolish
the limit altogether.

The retailers can get screwed.

I routinely bring in gear WITH GST paid from overseas that is cheaper
than buying it locally.
Sometimes obscenely cheaper. No really, I'm talking upwards of many
hundreds of dollars and I have to really wonder who is keeping it all.

If the retailers think GST on overseas purchases applied globally will
encourage local purchases, well, good luck with that.

If they want to play that game, bring it on.
Just looking for a reasonable spl meter , ebay $50 plus freight

local company same thing $495.00 (same meter)
one might be a copy but like a lot of stuff it's an odd price
differential

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

 

[Rob]

On 5/11/2010 10:40 PM, Polly the Parrott wrote:

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 21:46:18 +1100, John Tserkezis
jt@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote:

Don McKenzie wrote:

Retailers call for GST on overseas sales
STRUGGLING retailers want to spoil consumers' post-GFC party and put a
tax on overseas spending.
With new research showing half of all Australians now shop online
overseas, retailers have approached the Federal Government to wind back
the GST threshold on overseas goods from $1000 to $400 or even abolish
the limit altogether.

The retailers can get screwed.

I routinely bring in gear WITH GST paid from overseas that is cheaper
than buying it locally.
Sometimes obscenely cheaper. No really, I'm talking upwards of many
hundreds of dollars and I have to really wonder who is keeping it all.

Usually the wholesalers - importers.

Most retailers don't import themselves.

If the retailers think GST on overseas purchases applied globally will
encourage local purchases, well, good luck with that.

If they want to play that game, bring it on.

They only pay excise and a camera for instance has no excise and the GST
is paid by the end buyer.

 

[Polly the Parrott]

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 23:08:43 +1100, Rob <mesamine@gmail.com> wrote:

They only pay excise and a camera for instance has no excise and the GST
is paid by the end buyer.

Actually GST is paid at every point of sale.

However for example if an importer (who also pays GST) pays $10-00
GST, and then gets $15-00 GST on selling the item; only remits the
extra $5-00 to the government.

And so on up the food chain.

 

[terryc]

Polly the Parrott wrote:

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 23:08:43 +1100, Rob <mesamine@gmail.com> wrote:

They only pay excise and a camera for instance has no excise and the GST
is paid by the end buyer.


Actually GST is paid at every point of sale.

Does customs charge/collect GST on everything that comes in?

 

[Polly the Parrott]

On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 00:10:01 +1100, terryc
<newsninespam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote:

Polly the Parrott wrote:
On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 23:08:43 +1100, Rob <mesamine@gmail.com> wrote:

They only pay excise and a camera for instance has no excise and the GST
is paid by the end buyer.


Actually GST is paid at every point of sale.

Does customs charge/collect GST on everything that comes in?

On all commercial transactions, unless the item fits into a rare
category of GST free items.

(Maybe not so rare, as I am not sure what is GST free).

The importer can defer the GST payment for 30 days.

 

[Polly the Parrott]

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 21:53:48 +1000, atec77 <atec77@hotmail.com> wrote:

Just looking for a reasonable spl meter , ebay $50 plus freight
local company same thing $495.00 (same meter)
one might be a copy but like a lot of stuff it's an odd price
differential

Enormous difference.

Err ... what is an "spl meter"?

 

[John Tserkezis]

atec77 wrote:

Just looking for a reasonable spl meter , ebay $50 plus freight
local company same thing $495.00 (same meter)
one might be a copy but like a lot of stuff it's an odd price differential

It may or may not be. I used to work for an acoustic engineering shop,
and we had *real* trouble finding a cheaper AS1259 Type 2 meter. Our
client's choice was either the Type 1 loggers we made (~$7K), or a
Japanese Rolls Royce branded hand held meters. Nice but really pricey
(From memory, started around $1K or so).

They were asking for lower priced Type 2 meters because they really
didn't need any fancy features, as long as it was compliant, and were
reluctant to spend ~$1K each.

We couldn't find any. Closest we came to, was two el-cheapo meters,
both same brand and model, one passed AS1259 Type 2, the other failed.

Many are asking for Type 1 specs, type 2 as a minimum. We speculated
these meters would pass type 3 (repeatedly), but no-one asks for it, and
the courts won't take anything less than type 2, so we weren't geared up
to test for it anyway.
So basically, these meters were good as "toys" as far as we and our
clients were concerned.

Going on your prices above, I might be able to speculate that WAS
indeed a $50 meter with
~$400 tagged on for the calibration test and certificate.
Which might be a plausible explanation to the price difference, but,
going on past experience, I'm not buying the idea that a ~$50 meter is
going to pass type 2. The ones we looked at were ~$300 eBay specials
(well, at the time several years ago), and they failed.
And that's assuming they're only marking up ~$50, which I'm not buying
either.

If you don't really care for compliance and just want it for indication
only, you need to be wary that "indication only" is as good as the human
ear.
That is, if you're looking at a noise complaint, as far as the courts
are concerned, that meter is as good as "I think it sounds too bloody
loud". In other words, it doesn't count.

If it isn't going to be used for any legal compliance, then I could be
warranted in asking *why* anyone really needs a number attached to a
noise, especially when that number can't actually be used for anything
(useful) anyway. (not that I can think of anyway).
--
Peanuts: The Drinking Man's Filter.

 

[atec77]

On 5/11/2010 11:52 PM, John Tserkezis wrote:

atec77 wrote:

Just looking for a reasonable spl meter , ebay $50 plus freight
local company same thing $495.00 (same meter)
one might be a copy but like a lot of stuff it's an odd price differential

It may or may not be. I used to work for an acoustic engineering shop,
and we had *real* trouble finding a cheaper AS1259 Type 2 meter. Our
client's choice was either the Type 1 loggers we made (~$7K), or a
Japanese Rolls Royce branded hand held meters. Nice but really pricey
(From memory, started around $1K or so).

They were asking for lower priced Type 2 meters because they really
didn't need any fancy features, as long as it was compliant, and were
reluctant to spend ~$1K each.

We couldn't find any. Closest we came to, was two el-cheapo meters,
both same brand and model, one passed AS1259 Type 2, the other failed.

Many are asking for Type 1 specs, type 2 as a minimum. We speculated
these meters would pass type 3 (repeatedly), but no-one asks for it, and
the courts won't take anything less than type 2, so we weren't geared up
to test for it anyway.
So basically, these meters were good as "toys" as far as we and our
clients were concerned.

Going on your prices above, I might be able to speculate that WAS
indeed a $50 meter with
~$400 tagged on for the calibration test and certificate.
Which might be a plausible explanation to the price difference, but,
going on past experience, I'm not buying the idea that a ~$50 meter is
going to pass type 2. The ones we looked at were ~$300 eBay specials
(well, at the time several years ago), and they failed.
And that's assuming they're only marking up ~$50, which I'm not buying
either.

If you don't really care for compliance and just want it for indication
only, you need to be wary that "indication only" is as good as the human
ear.
That is, if you're looking at a noise complaint, as far as the courts
are concerned, that meter is as good as "I think it sounds too bloody
loud". In other words, it doesn't count.

If it isn't going to be used for any legal compliance, then I could be
warranted in asking *why* anyone really needs a number attached to a
noise, especially when that number can't actually be used for anything
(useful) anyway. (not that I can think of anyway).
I already have a good compliant unit but a couple of cheapies are needed

for some onsite staff as a fair indication , the good one was $570.00 in
hongkong and costs heaps more here , about 3 times more which still
makes me flinch at the markup
The complainers are using some sort of meter they bought at tandy or
dicks or somewhere and are so accurate (not)over a number of sites

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

 

[Rod Speed]

Rob wrote

Rod Speed wrote
Rob wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Rob wrote
Mickel wrote
Don McKenzie wrote

Retailers call for GST on overseas sales

STRUGGLING retailers want to spoil consumers' post-GFC party and put a tax on overseas spending.

With new research showing half of all Australians now shop online overseas, retailers have approached the
Federal Government to wind back the GST threshold on overseas goods from $1000 to $400 or
even abolish the limit altogether.

Their latest push will target independents holding the balance
of power in Federal Parliament, the Courier-Mail reports.

http://www.news.com.au/business/retailers-call-for-gst-on-overseas-sales/story-e6frfm1i-1225945906001

And read the 400+ comments that have been posted already:
http://www.news.com.au/business/retailers-call-for-gst-on-overseas-sales/comments-e6frfm1i-1225945906001

Sounds fair enough to me except that it won't work because the sellers always value the item at $2 for customs.

It's good to see the retailers squirm, they quite often make more
profit than the manufacturers per item yet provide little value
(surely actually making something should be valued higher than
simply selling it).

Tell us about Woolworths and the farmers then!

How come you can buy overseas for less from a retailer and pay their tax (sales/state etc).

You normally dont pay their sales/state taxes, those arent usually charged on exports.

Just expanding on what I said -
If your overseas and buying items from shop fronts and paying sales
and state tax the price is still cheaper to start with than here.

Like I said, you normally dont pay their sales/state taxes, those arent usually charged on exports.

Thats a full retail sale.

Like I said, you normally dont pay their sales/state taxes, those arent usually charged on exports.

As an example ASICS GEL-Kayano Running Shoe $140USD here $260AUD
both these prices include all taxes in the respective countries.

Not with exported or out of state sales they arent.

Thats correct

Not quoting them as a exported/imported item.

It has to be exported/imported to 'buy from overseas'

I'm quoting physically buying overseas. As in travel to another
country and buying from a shop front paying local and state taxes.

With some like the US, their sales/state taxes are substantially less than our GST etc even with that type of sale.

 

[Rod Speed]

terryc wrote

Polly the Parrott wrote
Rob <mesamine@gmail.com> wrote

They only pay excise and a camera for instance has no excise and the GST is paid by the end buyer.

Actually GST is paid at every point of sale.

Does customs charge/collect GST on everything that comes in?

Nope, not on stuff thats worth less than $1K and even with stuff thats
worth more than that, it doesnt get charged on every transaction,
particularly when the seller understates its value and quite a few do.

I even had one send the label off the item separately and say it was
close to worthless when it wasnt, and was in a sealed metal container
where no customs shinybum would have a clue what it actually was.

 

[Mr.T]

"John Tserkezis" <jt@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:4cd40c0a$0$5527$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

If it isn't going to be used for any legal compliance, then I could be
warranted in asking *why* anyone really needs a number attached to a
noise, especially when that number can't actually be used for anything
(useful) anyway. (not that I can think of anyway).

Obviously you don't set up sound systems where a relative measurement is all
that's required then. Legal traceability is not required to simply check
sound levels at various locations are similar for example. Most cheap meters
are at least fairly repeatable, even if the measurement uncertainty is
unknown!

MrT.

 

[kreed]

On Nov 6, 4:28 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:

terryc wrote

Polly the Parrott wrote
Rob <mesam...@gmail.com> wrote
They only pay excise and a camera for instance has no excise and the GST is paid by the end buyer.
Actually GST is paid at every point of sale.
Does customs charge/collect GST on everything that comes in?

Nope, not on stuff thats worth less than $1K and even with stuff thats
worth  more than that, it doesnt get charged on every transaction,
particularly when the seller understates its value and quite a few do.

I even had one send the label off the item separately and say it was
close to worthless when it wasnt, and was in a sealed metal container
where no customs shinybum would have a clue what it actually was.

I have found that particularly from asian sellers, they mark the value
very low, or
put gift/commercial sample,

In reality, there is probably no need, as the items are worth nowhere
near $1000, but
that is not to say that other countries dont have a lower limit.

 

[Doug Jewell]

On 5/11/2010 9:40 PM, Polly the Parrott wrote:

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 21:46:18 +1100, John Tserkezis
jt@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote:

Don McKenzie wrote:

Retailers call for GST on overseas sales
STRUGGLING retailers want to spoil consumers' post-GFC party and put a
tax on overseas spending.
With new research showing half of all Australians now shop online
overseas, retailers have approached the Federal Government to wind back
the GST threshold on overseas goods from $1000 to $400 or even abolish
the limit altogether.

The retailers can get screwed.

I routinely bring in gear WITH GST paid from overseas that is cheaper
than buying it locally.
Sometimes obscenely cheaper. No really, I'm talking upwards of many
hundreds of dollars and I have to really wonder who is keeping it all.

Usually the wholesalers - importers.

Most retailers don't import themselves.
Yep, very few retailers also import, and retailers get high

margins on very few products.

The high margins are further up the line (wholesalers,
importers) etc. As I've said previously, Australian
wholesale price is far higher than foreign retail prices on
many items.

But there are a few things that stop retailers importing
directly, especially on brand name items. I'm not sure if
they still do, but the local service agents for Nikon,
Pentax & Canon at one stage wouldn't work on foreign sourced
product at all - not even for paid non-warranty work. If you
bought it personally from OS (ie, while you were on holidays
over there) they'd look after you, and would often honour
warranty as well. But if you bought it from an Aussie
retailer who imported directly, you were SOL.

Consequently, very few aussie retailers would import from
overseas. A few did and possibly still do, but with
Australian law putting the onus onto the retailer for
warranty, it's frought with difficulties if there is no-one
in australia who will work on the product.

If a customer buys direct from OS and it dies, they accept
the fact that it may take 3 months for the unit to go back,
get repaired and come back. Or they may be prepared to cut
their losses and just buy another one, recognising that it
is still cheaper than buying domestically. But if they buy
from a local retailer, they expect that retailer to get a
warranty repair/replacement done in a reasonable timeframe -
regardless of whether they paid the standard RRP or much
less. If the retailer is importing direct, and doesn't have
the backing of a domestic agent for the manufacturer, the
costs of supporting repairs will soon force them to lift
their prices above the foreign pricing anyway, so once again
they cannot compete with the foreigners.

The problem with retail pricing in Aus is that the
importers/agents/wholesalers are price gouging - not the
retailers.

If the retailers think GST on overseas purchases applied globally will
encourage local purchases, well, good luck with that.

If they want to play that game, bring it on.

--
What is the difference between a duck?

 

[Rod Speed]

kreed wrote

Doug Jewell <a...@and.maybe.ill.tell.you> wrote
Polly the Parrott wrote
John Tserkezis <j...@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote
Don McKenzie wrote

Retailers call for GST on overseas sales
STRUGGLING retailers want to spoil consumers' post-GFC party and
put a tax on overseas spending.
With new research showing half of all Australians now shop online
overseas, retailers have approached the Federal Government to
wind back the GST threshold on overseas goods from $1000 to $400
or even abolish the limit altogether.

The retailers can get screwed.

I routinely bring in gear WITH GST paid from overseas that is
cheaper than buying it locally.
Sometimes obscenely cheaper. No really, I'm talking upwards of many
hundreds of dollars and I have to really wonder who is keeping it all.

Usually the wholesalers - importers.

Most retailers don't import themselves.

Yep, very few retailers also import, and retailers get high
margins on very few products.

The high margins are further up the line (wholesalers,
importers) etc. As I've said previously, Australian
wholesale price is far higher than foreign retail prices on
many items.

But there are a few things that stop retailers importing
directly, especially on brand name items. I'm not sure if
they still do, but the local service agents for Nikon,
Pentax & Canon at one stage wouldn't work on foreign sourced
product at all - not even for paid non-warranty work. If you
bought it personally from OS (ie, while you were on holidays
over there) they'd look after you, and would often honour
warranty as well. But if you bought it from an Aussie
retailer who imported directly, you were SOL.

Its part of a thing called "exclusive distribution rights"

Nope. There has never been any legal obligation for an importer of a product
to do any warranty work on what has been imported by someone else.

that has been a huge rort in Australia for many many years

Nope.

and pushes up the price on genuinel "brand name"
items here compared to overseas markets.

Nope, the price differences are due to other effects entirely.

Therefore the law needs to be changed to prevent refusal to
work on any genuine product from the manufacturer they represnt.

They dont 'represent' anyone, they just import the products of that manufacturer.

Any policy than this is simply the out dated attitude from a company living in yesterday's world

Nope, yours is.

that has no idea that the world has changed a lot,

You havent.

they aren't moving with the times and the now global market

No global markets work like that.

and new ways the consumers purchase and find product will
piss off this brand's reputation and lose potential customers.

Pure fantasy.

If it comes down to that, then repairs of these product
will simply be shipped overseas by consumers in the
same way that purchases are going overseas.

In the real world, its just binned and they buy another.

If the item is an enormous amount less in cost and a known quality brand
(Nikon, Pentax, Canon for example) then I doubt many people would care
about the warranty, would just take the risk and buy another if it failed..

And they do that with branded products that has no local repair possibility too.

In one way this is killing sales in preference for many of the less
known brands that will ship direct from China for a fraction of the
price (IE: Rigol oscilloscope covered on here many times).

Its just as true of branded products that have no local repair possibility too.

If the price had not been much less than (say) HP or
Tek, I probably wouldn't have bought the Rigol unit.

And plenty do that with stuff where the price isnt
dramatically cheaper too like with hard drives.

I bet that deal alone gave them a lot of market share from
the bigger known brands in that sector, turned a relatively
unknown brand into one with a good reputation, and I would
also bet that many who bought that Rigol scope and are
happy with it would be many times more likely to trust
and buy Rigol products in future as they wanted higher
performance scopes or other electronic test gear.

And plenty more stick with HP and Tek.

Im sure that just about every sector of the market has
this sort of "low cost, online direct sold, unknown brand"
competition from out of China by now.

And plenty more dont, like with hard drives, cpus, etc etc etc.

Its not like in the old days when you only had a small number of
brands to choose from in consumer goods and had to buy them locally.

Consequently, very few aussie retailers would import from
overseas. A few did and possibly still do, but with
Australian law putting the onus onto the retailer for
warranty, it's frought with difficulties if there is no-one
in australia who will work on the product.

If a customer buys direct from OS and it dies, they accept
the fact that it may take 3 months for the unit to go back,
get repaired and come back. Or they may be prepared to cut
their losses and just buy another one, recognising that it
is still cheaper than buying domestically. But if they buy
from a local retailer, they expect that retailer to get a
warranty repair/replacement done in a reasonable timeframe -
regardless of whether they paid the standard RRP or much
less. If the retailer is importing direct, and doesn't have
the backing of a domestic agent for the manufacturer, the
costs of supporting repairs will soon force them to lift
their prices above the foreign pricing anyway, so once again
they cannot compete with the foreigners.

The problem with retail pricing in Aus is that the
importers/agents/wholesalers are price gouging - not the
retailers.

If the retailers think GST on overseas purchases applied globally
will encourage local purchases, well, good luck with that.

If they want to play that game, bring it on.

 

[Rod Speed]

kreed wrote

Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
terryc wrote
Polly the Parrott wrote
Rob <mesam...@gmail.com> wrote

They only pay excise and a camera for instance has
no excise and the GST is paid by the end buyer.

Actually GST is paid at every point of sale.

Does customs charge/collect GST on everything that comes in?

Nope, not on stuff thats worth less than $1K and even with stuff
thats worth more than that, it doesnt get charged on every
transaction, particularly when the seller understates its value and
quite a few do.

I even had one send the label off the item separately and say it was
close to worthless when it wasnt, and was in a sealed metal container
where no customs shinybum would have a clue what it actually was.

I have found that particularly from asian sellers, they
mark the value very low, or put gift/commercial sample,

Yep.

In reality, there is probably no need, as the items are worth nowhere near
$1000, but that is not to say that other countries dont have a lower limit.

Yep, and some countrys dont have any limit at all.

 

[kreed]

On Nov 6, 1:22 pm, Doug Jewell <a...@and.maybe.ill.tell.you> wrote:

On 5/11/2010 9:40 PM, Polly the Parrott wrote:

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 21:46:18 +1100, John Tserkezis
j...@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid>  wrote:

Don McKenzie wrote:

Retailers call for GST on overseas sales
STRUGGLING retailers want to spoil consumers' post-GFC party and put a
tax on overseas spending.
With new research showing half of all Australians now shop online
overseas, retailers have approached the Federal Government to wind back
the GST threshold on overseas goods from $1000 to $400 or even abolish
the limit altogether.

The retailers can get screwed.

I routinely bring in gear WITH GST paid from overseas that is cheaper
than buying it locally.
Sometimes obscenely cheaper.  No really, I'm talking upwards of many
hundreds of dollars and I have to really wonder who is keeping it all.

Usually the wholesalers - importers.

Most retailers don't import themselves.

Yep, very few retailers also import, and retailers get high
margins on very few products.

The high margins are further up the line (wholesalers,
importers) etc. As I've said previously, Australian
wholesale price is far higher than foreign retail prices on
many items.

But there are a few things that stop retailers importing
directly, especially on brand name items. I'm not sure if
they still do, but the local service agents for Nikon,
Pentax & Canon at one stage wouldn't work on foreign sourced
product at all - not even for paid non-warranty work. If you
bought it personally from OS (ie, while you were on holidays
over there) they'd look after you, and would often honour
warranty as well. But if you bought it from an Aussie
retailer who imported directly, you were SOL.

Its part of a thing called "exclusive distribution rights" that
has been a huge rort in Australia for many many years and pushes up
the price on genuinel "brand name" items
here compared to overseas markets.

Therefore the law needs to be changed to prevent refusal to
work on any genuine product from the manufacturer they represnt.

Any policy than this is simply the out dated attitude from a company
living in yesterday's world
that has no idea that the world has changed a lot, they aren't moving
with the times
and the now global market and new ways the consumers purchase and find
product
will piss off this brand's reputation and lose potential customers.


If it comes down to that, then repairs of these product will simply be
shipped overseas by consumers
in the same way that purchases are going overseas. If the item is an
enormous amount less in cost
and a known quality brand (Nikon, Pentax, Canon for example) then I
doubt many people would
care about the warranty, would just take the risk and buy another if
it failed..


In one way this is killing sales in preference for many of the less
known brands that
will ship direct from China for a fraction of the price (IE: Rigol
oscilloscope covered
on here many times). If the price had not been much less than (say)
HP or Tek, I probably
wouldn't have bought the Rigol unit.

I bet that deal alone gave them a lot of market share from the bigger
known brands in that sector, turned a
relatively unknown brand into one with a good reputation, and I would
also bet that many who bought that
Rigol scope and are happy with it would be many times more likely to
trust and buy Rigol products in future
as they wanted higher performance scopes or other electronic test
gear.

Im sure that just about every sector of the market has this sort of
"low cost, online direct sold, unknown brand" competition from out of
China by now. Its not like in the old days
when you only had a small number of brands to choose from in consumer
goods and had to buy them locally.

Consequently, very few aussie retailers would import from
overseas. A few did and possibly still do, but with
Australian law putting the onus onto the retailer for
warranty, it's frought with difficulties if there is no-one
in australia who will work on the product.

If a customer buys direct from OS and it dies, they accept
the fact that it may take 3 months for the unit to go back,
get repaired and come back. Or they may be prepared to cut
their losses and just buy another one, recognising that it
is still cheaper than buying domestically. But if they buy
from a local retailer, they expect that retailer to get a
warranty repair/replacement done in a reasonable timeframe -
regardless of whether they paid the standard RRP or much
less. If the retailer is importing direct, and doesn't have
the backing of a domestic agent for the manufacturer, the
costs of supporting repairs will soon force them to lift
their prices above the foreign pricing anyway, so once again
they cannot compete with the foreigners.

The problem with retail pricing in Aus is that the
importers/agents/wholesalers are price gouging - not the
retailers.



If the retailers think GST on overseas purchases applied globally will
encourage local purchases, well, good luck with that.

If they want to play that game, bring it on.

--
What is the difference between a duck?

 

[John Tserkezis]

atec77 wrote:

I already have a good compliant unit but a couple of cheapies are needed
for some onsite staff as a fair indication , the good one was $570.00 in
hongkong and costs heaps more here , about 3 times more which still
makes me flinch at the markup

Remember that any meter here that can even be entertained as compliant,
would be sold with a calibration certificate, and that's going to add
~$400 on top of the meter straight off the bat. It actually IS a fair
bit of work to adjust and measure it you know.
You can't always trust a manufacturer's adjustment. On the good gear,
it's rare to find one that's off, but it happens. But that usually ends
up as a chargeable extra where applicable.

On top of that, you're looking at their markup, (likely quite steep),
would would easily triple the price of a moderately priced meter, as
you've found out.

On the other hand, if it's sold *without* a cal certificate and still
has that class of price, then that's an entirely different story.

The complainers are using some sort of meter they bought at tandy or
dicks or somewhere and are so accurate (not) over a number of sites

You'd see that all the time. It's the ones who have the cheapy meters
who whine about the noise, who clearly don't understand how noise works.
Not surprisingly, if you were to give these end users a fully legal
calibrated meter, they *still* wouldn't know what to do with it.

The consultants who do the work, charge an arm and a leg for their
report, because it actually takes a bit of work to put it all together
in a form that not only indicates it *IS* above legal allowances, but
can also be argued in court.

I wasn't involved in that area, but I'd hear it from the consultants
all the time. Residents would whine and carry on about the air
conditioners on the adjacent new shopping centre for ages, meters and
all, and the council would ignore it the whole time.
They eventually get consultants in do do some measurements, present
that report to the council, and magically, noise guards and other
measures would start to be rolled out.

Depending on what you're doing a cheap meter isn't going to cut it, not
only because it can't give you numbers you can trust, it's that the
courts aren't going to accept the numbers you give them. To do that,
you need training, experience as well as good gear.

That, costs money however.
--
Everyone is gifted. Some open the package sooner.