Real photos of Highway 17 and Skyline in the Santa Cruz Moun

[PeterN]

On 2/12/2017 4:12 PM, nospam wrote:

In article <o7qiiu1e19@news3.newsguy.com>, PeterN
"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg

i doubt he was attempting to cross it. more likely he was not paying
any attention and only realized it when it was too late.

Said with your usual knowledge of the facts:

since you claim to have the facts, what was the driver's intention?

was he texting? did his brakes fail? were his tires bald?

or did he think he was evel knievel?

we await the answers.

Exactly where did I make a positive statement of fact, other than my
observation about your knowledge of the facts that support your
conclusion. But then just another attempt at a twist.

--
PeterN

 

[nospam]

In article <3n42achgnc5ij92drrg9d6oiaiud5fa2d5@4ax.com>, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Do people actually drive in New York city? Must have been quite a
change for him.

The natives of the City and its environs, only do so when necessary. At
least not during the rush hour.

then why is there so much traffic in midtown?

https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+city+traffic&tbm=isch
Kinda looks like mostly taxi cabs, buses, delivery vans, tour buses,
but very few private vehicles. Even if he had experience driving in
New York city, he couldn't have been driving very fast.

he could on roads outside of midtown itself.

 

[Eric Stevens]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 13:32:28 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

In article <o7q9e5$nd6$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Stijn De Jong
stijndekoning@nlnet.nl> wrote:


Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg

i doubt he was attempting to cross it. more likely he was not paying
any attention and only realized it when it was too late.

It's always possible that the hole got there after the van did.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 20:50:47 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

In article <o7r3at0p7m@news6.newsguy.com>, PeterN
"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

Do people actually drive in New York city? Must have been quite a
change for him.

The natives of the City and its environs, only do so when necessary. At
least not during the rush hour.

then why is there so much traffic in midtown?

<https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+city+traffic&tbm=isch>
Kinda looks like mostly taxi cabs, buses, delivery vans, tour buses,
but very few private vehicles. Even if he had experience driving in
New York city, he couldn't have been driving very fast.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[nospam]

In article <o7r3at0p7m@news6.newsguy.com>, PeterN
<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

Do people actually drive in New York city? Must have been quite a
change for him.


The natives of the City and its environs, only do so when necessary. At
least not during the rush hour.

then why is there so much traffic in midtown?

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 23:23:02 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
<stijndekoning@nlnet.nl> wrote:

The overturned car was apparently pushed to the other lanes and flipped
over by the onrushing landslide. At least that's how I understood the news
to state. The guy was unhurt who was driving the overturned car.

Is that your understanding also?

Yep.
<http://www.ktvu.com/news/234511700-story>
The mudslide also shoved the over the center divider. Bad timing, I
guess.

Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg
The photo, I know, is real; but it looks photoshopped.

It's real, judging by the number of photos shot from different angles.
<http://www.ksbw.com/article/van-crashes-into-giant-gap-in-santa-cruz-mountains/8693694>
Fake photos usually are singles.

Despite traveling as much as anyone, I've never had an accident in these
mountains.

Same here. Well, maybe if you don't include backing up into cars,
trees, poles, hillsides, ditches, etc.

I just don't understand how anyone can fall into that hole,
unless they were parked over it when it happened.

Possibly speeding. Look at the photo at:
<http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/van4-1486694623.jpg?crop=0.998xw:1.00xh;0.00173xw,0&resize=4500:*>
Notice how the van has literally plowed into the opposite side of the
gully. If he were going slower, the van would have gone over nose
down, and possibly ended up vertically, or fallen over on its top.
However, I'm guessing. The driver was lucky.

His power was out, so he got candles at the store. He should just have had
a generator, like the rest of us have. The power went out about five or six
times this winter alone, once for 4 or 4 days already.

Mine went out for more than 5 minutes perhaps 4 times. The longest
was about 2 hrs.

The guy moved here from NY city just this week, and Monday was his first
day on the job.

Do people actually drive in New York city? Must have been quite a
change for him.

But, you can't believe anything on California news because everything tends
to the super monstrous liberal, so they distort facts accordingly (e.g., on
the so-called drought).

Facts? We don't do no stinkin facts. This is the land of opinions,
feelings, and progress through meditation.

This is apparently the remains of his SUV, flipped right-side up:
http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/img_39511.jpg

Kinda makes me want to install an internal roll bar.

I'm trying to figure out where this one is?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4V7UT1UcAASgMk.jpg

No EXIF info and therefore no lat-long.

Is that Skyline?
If so, it looks like it's a good place to put up a bridge.

Judging by slope and the "view", I agree. It's probably Skyline.
See the red and white line at (if Hwy 9 is still closed):
<https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2551091,-122.1089171,14z/data=!5m1!1e1>

View of the San Lorenzo river just outside my office:
http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/sjm-storm-0208-403.jpg?w=620

Isn't that the same river that washed out Highway 9 last week?

Yes, but that was in Boulder Creek, 15 miles to the north.

I'm not sure what the plastic is supposed to do:
http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/kgo/images/cms/automation/vod/1748305_1280x720.jpg

Keep the rain and runoff from further eroding the hillside. However,
it won't do anything for underground rivers and springs.

>We have been getting horizontal rain over on the Loma side of things.

I hate when that happens. It ruins my rainfall measurements because
the rain misses the rain gauge.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Oren]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 00:23:50 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
<stijndekoning@nlnet.nl> wrote:

In NY, you look for "black ice".
In CA, you look for black holes.

In NV you look for signs to go back where you came from.
We don't need those folks.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 23:23:05 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
<stijndekoning@nlnet.nl> wrote:

It's my understanding that agriculture takes up 85% of California water.
Of course, they don't advertise that.
What they advertise on all the road signs is to conserve water at home.
Yet all the homes in California only take about 15% of the water.
And, we're already conserving like hell.

<http://www.scpr.org/news/2015/04/15/50941/10-things-to-know-about-california-water-use/>
"We hear all the time that growers use 80 percent of California's
water. And state officials do say California's 9 million acres of
farmland consume that much. But that's 80 percent of human water
use."

<http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=1108>
"Statewide, average water use is roughly 50% environmental,
40% agricultural, and 10% urban..."

Yet, we have to pay for road signs to tell us to conserve water while we're
driving.

It's a conspiracy to make you thirsty so that you'll drop into an
overpriced convenience store for something to drink.

>It's a political farce.

Hardly. It's the current reality. Government believes that you need
to be told what to do and what not to do. That's what laws are all
about. You need to be told how to behave because otherwise, you might
go around leaving the water running, or commit some other crime
against the environment. Just salute as you drive by the sign and
you'll be all right.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[PeterN]

On 2/12/2017 6:22 PM, Stijn De Jong wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 16:02:53 -0500, PeterN wrote:

Note to the Duck: IMHO the posted images are examples of images that
should not be altered in any manner, except possibly some very mild
sharpening.

I think you're implying that these photos were photoshopped, but they
weren't. They appear to be real.

Not at all. In fact I was expressly stating that they should not be
Photoshopped. Your posting came just at the point that the Duck and I
were having a discussion about Photoshopping images. The gist of which
is that he and I shoot for different purposes.

Here's the news story on that photo (kindly provided by Jeff Liebermann)
which has multiple photos easily corroborating that original photo.
http://www.ksbw.com/article/van-crashes-into-giant-gap-in-santa-cruz-mountains/8693694


Or are you insinuating they're all photoshopped by the news media?
http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/no-more-road2-1486589973.jpg

http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/blue-van-333-1486693522.jpg

http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/van4-1486694623.jpg

--
PeterN

 

[nospam]

In article <id12acp2bjrpptb1fcoc3b1koa77u5ud8l@4ax.com>, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

The guy moved here from NY city just this week, and Monday was his first
day on the job.

Do people actually drive in New York city?

yes, and rather well. it's the jersey drivers that you have to watch
out for.

Must have been quite a
change for him.

apparently so.

 

[PeterN]

On 2/12/2017 8:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

Do people actually drive in New York city? Must have been quite a
change for him.

The natives of the City and its environs, only do so when necessary. At
least not during the rush hour.



--
PeterN

 

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 00:31:01 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
<stijndekoning@nlnet.nl> wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 19:26:52 -0500, nospam wrote:

He didn't know how to drive on mountain roads (apparently).

he's still a stupid driver.

I am agreeing with you.
If you can't miss a 20 foot wide hole, you're not gonna miss a pedestrian
either. Or even a guardrail.

He was a bad driver, no doubt about it.
I agree with you.

You're supposed to maintain control of your vehicle, and driving into a
hole isn't maintaining control. He should have been able to stop.

If he couldn't stop, then he was driving too fast.
What if someone was standing in the road, for example.

He'd have run them over.

He couldn't have been going very fast by the time he left the road by
the looks of his van. Though I'm sure the mud was pretty soft there
would still have been a lot body damage to the van if he was traveling
very fast. Musta been a pretty big surprise when the van dropped into
that hole.
Eric

 

[nospam]

In article <o7quo4$1ta7$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Stijn De Jong
<stijndekoning@nlnet.nl> wrote:

He didn't know how to drive on mountain roads (apparently).

he's still a stupid driver.

I am agreeing with you.
If you can't miss a 20 foot wide hole, you're not gonna miss a pedestrian
either. Or even a guardrail.

He was a bad driver, no doubt about it.
I agree with you.

You're supposed to maintain control of your vehicle, and driving into a
hole isn't maintaining control. He should have been able to stop.

If he couldn't stop, then he was driving too fast.

he was driving too fast for conditions and not paying attention either.

hopefully he learned a lesson. probably not though.

What if someone was standing in the road, for example.

He'd have run them over.

maybe.

pedestrians don't usually stand in the road so it's rarely an issue.

however, there are definitely stupid ones who step into moving traffic
expecting that the vehicles will stop, or they don't even bother
looking to see if there is any traffic at all. stupidity is not limited
to just drivers.

at least for people who step into traffic, they learn a quick lesson
and likely won't do it again, usually because they're unable to walk
anymore or dead.

 

[Eric Stevens]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 21:54:45 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

In article <o7quo4$1ta7$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Stijn De Jong
stijndekoning@nlnet.nl> wrote:


He didn't know how to drive on mountain roads (apparently).

he's still a stupid driver.

I am agreeing with you.
If you can't miss a 20 foot wide hole, you're not gonna miss a pedestrian
either. Or even a guardrail.

He was a bad driver, no doubt about it.
I agree with you.

You're supposed to maintain control of your vehicle, and driving into a
hole isn't maintaining control. He should have been able to stop.

If he couldn't stop, then he was driving too fast.

he was driving too fast for conditions and not paying attention either.

It's clear from the news item that he actually misjudged the
situation. He thought he was driving through mud, which probably
something he could have got away with, but in fact he was driving into
a hole ...

Driver error.

hopefully he learned a lesson. probably not though.

What if someone was standing in the road, for example.

He'd have run them over.

maybe.

pedestrians don't usually stand in the road so it's rarely an issue.

however, there are definitely stupid ones who step into moving traffic
expecting that the vehicles will stop, or they don't even bother
looking to see if there is any traffic at all. stupidity is not limited
to just drivers.

at least for people who step into traffic, they learn a quick lesson
and likely won't do it again, usually because they're unable to walk
anymore or dead.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

 

[android]

In article <o7qual$1sm2$4@gioia.aioe.org>,
Stijn De Jong <stijndekoning@nlnet.nl> wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:07:08 -0500, nospam wrote:

"I saw what I thought was mud, I stepped on the brake, and it was too
late," he said.

stupid driver syndrome.

According to the article Jeff referenced, the driver was from NY city.
It's his first week in California.
He didn't know how to drive on mountain roads (apparently).

In NY, you look for "black ice".
In CA, you look for black holes.

That thingy looked more lie a wormhole...
--
teleportation kills

 

[android]

In article <gl42achl1ekjikjutjnf8ljdka9hk7kh9d@4ax.com>,
Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 13:32:28 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid
wrote:

In article <o7q9e5$nd6$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Stijn De Jong
stijndekoning@nlnet.nl> wrote:


Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg

i doubt he was attempting to cross it. more likely he was not paying
any attention and only realized it when it was too late.

It's always possible that the hole got there after the van did.

Yes... It could have been an occurrence of an unscheduled twist in the
time space continuum. The boss gets vimy occasionally! ;-))
--
teleportation kills

 

[micky]

In sci.electronics.repair, on Sun, 12 Feb 2017 17:35:22 -0800, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

His power was out, so he got candles at the store. He should just have had
a generator, like the rest of us have. The power went out about five or six
times this winter alone, once for 4 or 4 days already.

Mine went out for more than 5 minutes perhaps 4 times. The longest
was about 2 hrs.

The guy moved here from NY city just this week, and Monday was his first
day on the job.

Do people actually drive in New York city? Must have been quite a
change for him.

Actually, even in 1966, there were a million cars registered in NYC, I
would expect it to be higher now. Atlhough I suppose the rate was
lowest in Manhattan.

But, you can't believe anything on California news because everything tends
to the super monstrous liberal, so they distort facts accordingly (e.g., on
the so-called drought).

And of course conservatives don't distort the facts. If you believe
liberals do it more, well...

Facts? We don't do no stinkin facts. This is the land of opinions,
feelings, and progress through meditation.

This is apparently the remains of his SUV, flipped right-side up:
http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/img_39511.jpg

Kinda makes me want to install an internal roll bar.

I'm trying to figure out where this one is?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4V7UT1UcAASgMk.jpg

But I do think they should put in a bridge when there is a gap this
long. ;-)

No EXIF info and therefore no lat-long.

Is that Skyline?
If so, it looks like it's a good place to put up a bridge.

Judging by slope and the "view", I agree. It's probably Skyline.
See the red and white line at (if Hwy 9 is still closed):
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2551091,-122.1089171,14z/data=!5m1!1e1

View of the San Lorenzo river just outside my office:
http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/sjm-storm-0208-403.jpg?w=620

I'm glad you weren't washed away.

Isn't that the same river that washed out Highway 9 last week?

Yes, but that was in Boulder Creek, 15 miles to the north.

I'm not sure what the plastic is supposed to do:
http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/kgo/images/cms/automation/vod/1748305_1280x720.jpg

Keep the rain and runoff from further eroding the hillside. However,

But what is the vertical thing on the left? It's 2 or 3 feet tall.

it won't do anything for underground rivers and springs.

We have been getting horizontal rain over on the Loma side of things.

I hate when that happens. It ruins my rainfall measurements because
the rain misses the rain gauge.

Maybe you could mount a tube horizontally, on a weather vane so it faces
the wind.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[nospam]

In article <9rp2acpm0h521r6v44l72r48va6dnnnrcg@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
<eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

He didn't know how to drive on mountain roads (apparently).

he's still a stupid driver.

I am agreeing with you.
If you can't miss a 20 foot wide hole, you're not gonna miss a pedestrian
either. Or even a guardrail.

He was a bad driver, no doubt about it.
I agree with you.

You're supposed to maintain control of your vehicle, and driving into a
hole isn't maintaining control. He should have been able to stop.

If he couldn't stop, then he was driving too fast.

he was driving too fast for conditions and not paying attention either.

It's clear from the news item that he actually misjudged the
situation. He thought he was driving through mud, which probably
something he could have got away with, but in fact he was driving into
a hole ...

Driver error.

that's what i said. stupid driver syndrome.

unfortunately, he's still driving and putting others in danger.

 

[Stijn De Jong]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 17:35:22 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Possibly speeding. Look at the photo at:
http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/van4-1486694623.jpg?crop=0.998xw:1.00xh;0.00173xw,0&resize=4500:*
Notice how the van has literally plowed into the opposite side of the
gully. If he were going slower, the van would have gone over nose
down, and possibly ended up vertically, or fallen over on its top.
However, I'm guessing. The driver was lucky.

This is a good point that, if he had just edged over the cliff, he'd likely
have gone down nose first.

He had momentum, it seems possible.

Mine went out for more than 5 minutes perhaps 4 times. The longest
was about 2 hrs.

The PG&E crew out here knows me by name! I talk to them as they park their
trucks on the side roads. I have their cell numbers! What happens, they
tell me, is that have "isolators" and "fuses".

The fuses are literally fuses. THey have to be manually replaced.
The isolators are circuit breakers that go out for short periods of time
(like less than 30 seconds). They have 3 trip points:
a) If a tree branch hits the wires, causing a short, they trip.
b) They wait a short period of time, and go back on
c) That can happen a second time
d) The third time, they shut off completely.

So, often you'll get 30-second outages out here, which is what the PG&E
guys tell me. The way to tell is to call it in as a "real" outage. They
actually call you back since you're the ONLY one reporting the real outage.
They check their software, which shows that it only tripped at the source.
So if you have a real outage, then it's just you. That's why they call you
back.

Its' a great way to get to know the PG&E guys.

The reason I *though* the power was out was because I could hear my
generator, but it turns out my generator runs longer than 30 seconds when
the power is only out for 30 seconds. SO they told me to look at the smart
meter before calling.

Facts? We don't do no stinkin facts. This is the land of opinions,
feelings, and progress through meditation.

yup. Global warming. Energy Crisis. Trumpism. All disasters in California
due to politics alone.

Isn't that the same river that washed out Highway 9 last week?

Yes, but that was in Boulder Creek, 15 miles to the north.

Thanks. I saw Sanborn all washed out. Entire cliffs wiped out all three
trails going into Lake Ranch (which is directly on top of the San Andreas
fault line).

There is no way to get a vehicle into Lake Ranch at the moment even though
it has three access roads. All three are gone at some point (multiple
points in two of the three).

I'm not sure what the plastic is supposed to do:
http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/kgo/images/cms/automation/vod/1748305_1280x720.jpg

Keep the rain and runoff from further eroding the hillside. However,
it won't do anything for underground rivers and springs.

They put some of that plastic on the roads I use to get home. I think it's
wishful thinking. What they did was put asphalt on top of the plastic (to
hold it down). I doubt it will stop much since the slumping is from below.

We have been getting horizontal rain over on the Loma side of things.

I hate when that happens. It ruins my rainfall measurements because
the rain misses the rain gauge.

All you have to do is turn the rain gauge sideways!

 

[Stijn De Jong]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 16:24:14 +0100, android wrote:

He could be right. The undermined paving, covered with mud probably
collapsed under the weight of the car...

That's an interesting observation.
Maybe the road was still there when he drove over it, and maybe it dropped
out from under him?

I'm sure if someone was there before him who might have reported it as a
collapse, then that didn't happen, but I don't know if that's the case.

So, at this point, it's possible that there "was" a road there when he
drove on it, and it collapsed out from under him, I guess.

Either way, let's hope he's learned how to deal with the mountains.