Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

by comparion ... projected NASA budget for 2011 is $19billion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Budget

this pegs 2011 US GDP at nearly $15T
http://www.forecasts.org/gdp.htm

making NASA budget (rockets) slightly over tenth of a percent of GDP
(about 1/50th that of claimed cost of dealing with tax code).

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

 

[Roland Hutchinson]

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 04:07:51 -0600, ArarghMail011NOSPAM wrote:

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 03:16:45 +0000 (UTC), Roland Hutchinson
my.spamtrap@verizon.net> wrote:

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:02:11 +0000, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 13:54:01 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:

Roland Hutchinson wrote:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:13:11 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:

Roland Hutchinson wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:10:19 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:

Rod Speed wrote:
Walter Bushell wrote
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

WordPervert was never gunna survive, it always had a
completely fucked user interface.

Surprising then that it was so popular right up until
Windows became ubiquitous. I quite liked WordPerfect's
interface.

I have head many laments about WordPerfect's demise.

I heard many laments about the demise of punched cards too.

I had to physically remove the last of the card punches to
stop the
dinosaurs continuing to use them.

Why in the world would you want to do that?

Opens us a niche or two for the mammals, innit.

But removes hard-copy data and code backup which is
human-readable.

That's what the line printer is for!

Line printer output wasn't that great and couldn't be used as
input.

Sure it can. It's compatible with the ten-finger interface.

Scanning it with OCR sofware is much easier and has remarkably
good/reliable results.

Depending somewhat critically on the state of the printer ribbon!

(Also on the date--especially the year.)

(Phase of the moon is in there somewhere, too.)

I have never found any OCR software that does a decent job on line
printer listings. I have quite a few hundred pages of listings that I
would love to process.

I have had the best luck with a very lame brute force program that I
wrote, and it's not all that good.

Lessee...

Keyboard (once or maybe twice), proofread, and correct a few hundred
pages of listings: maybe two weeks' work, max.

Develop an OCR program that's good enough to use for the purpose (but
still requires careful proofreading of its output): years, possibly
decades of work.

I would, with all due submission, suggest that one does not need a degree
in Engineering Management to figure out what to do in this situation.

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
.... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )

 

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

ArarghMail011NOSPAM@NOT.AT.Arargh.com writes:

I have never found any OCR software that does a decent job on line
printer listings. I have quite a few hundred pages of listings that
I would love to process.

I have had the best luck with a very lame brute force program that I
wrote, and it's not all that good.

somewhat related to recent post mentioning congress is the most corrupt
institution on earth:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#15 Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London

I've mentioned before early last year, I was asked to take the scan of
the Pecora hearings (done the previous fall at boston public library)
.... HTML them, heavily cross-index, and also provide links between what
went on then and what went on this time. This was apparently in
anticipation that the new congress had an appetite for doing something.
After putting quite a bit of work into it, I got a call that said it
didn't look like congress was interested in doing anything real after
all.

I was using tesseract to try and improve OCR of the scans ... but still
was doing lots & lots of manual fixups (the documents were printed in
the 30s and scans were somewhat faded):
http://code.google.com/p/tesseract-ocr/

old reference from early last year (hear in a.f.c):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#58 OCR scans of old documents

other past posts mentioning Pecora Hearings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#59 As bonuses...why breed greed, when others are in dire need?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009d.html#62 Is Wall Street World's Largest Ponzi Scheme where Madoff is Just a Poster Child?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009d.html#73 Should Glass-Steagall be reinstated?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009d.html#77 Who first mentioned Credit Crunch?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#8 The background reasons of Credit Crunch
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#23 Should FDIC or the Federal Reserve Bank have the authority to shut down and take over non-bank financial institutions like AIG?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#40 Architectural Diversity
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009f.html#56 What's your personal confidence level concerning financial market recovery?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009f.html#65 Just posted third article about toxic assets in a series on the current financial crisis
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#5 Do the current Banking Results in the US hide a grim truth?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#33 Treating the Web As an Archive
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#22 China's yuan 'set to usurp US dollar' as world's reserve currency
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#25 The Paradox of Economic Recovery
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#29 Analysing risk, especially credit risk in Banks, which was a major reason for the current crisis
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#40 64 Cores -- IBM is showing a prototype already
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#57 In the USA "financial regulator seeks power to curb excess speculation."
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009j.html#35 what is mortgage-backed securities?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009o.html#23 Opinions on the 'Unix Haters' Handbook'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#2 Opinions on the 'Unix Haters' Handbook
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#20 U.K. lags in information security management practices
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#25 Opinions on the 'Unix Haters' Handbook
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#53 70 Years of ATM Innovation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#73 70 Years of ATM Innovation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#6 Bookshelves under BookMangler
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#54 The 2010 Census
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#28 Our Pecora Moment
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#52 Our Pecora Moment
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#67 The Python and the Mongoose: it helps if you know the rules of engagement
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#68 Our Pecora Moment
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#69 Idiotic programming style edicts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#73 Our Pecora Moment
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#74 Idiotic programming style edicts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#4 Goldman Sachs -- Post SEC complaint. What's next?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#16 Fake debate: The Senate will not vote on big banks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#77 Favourite computer history books?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010j.html#7 Seeking *Specific* Implementation of Star Trek Game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#17 History--automated payroll processing by other than a computer?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#38 Who is Really to Blame for the Financial Crisis?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#8 Who is Really to Blame for the Financial Crisis?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#67 Idiotic programming style edicts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010n.html#36 Idiotic programming style edicts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#59 They always think we don't understand
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#7 What banking is. (Essential for predicting the end of finance as we know it.)

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

 

[Roland Hutchinson]

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 04:07:51 -0600, ArarghMail011NOSPAM wrote:

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 03:16:45 +0000 (UTC), Roland Hutchinson
my.spamtrap@verizon.net> wrote:

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:02:11 +0000, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 13:54:01 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:

Roland Hutchinson wrote:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:13:11 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:

Roland Hutchinson wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:10:19 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:

Rod Speed wrote:
Walter Bushell wrote
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

WordPervert was never gunna survive, it always had a
completely fucked user interface.

Surprising then that it was so popular right up until
Windows became ubiquitous. I quite liked WordPerfect's
interface.

I have head many laments about WordPerfect's demise.

I heard many laments about the demise of punched cards too.

I had to physically remove the last of the card punches to
stop the
dinosaurs continuing to use them.

Why in the world would you want to do that?

Opens us a niche or two for the mammals, innit.

But removes hard-copy data and code backup which is
human-readable.

That's what the line printer is for!

Line printer output wasn't that great and couldn't be used as
input.

Sure it can. It's compatible with the ten-finger interface.

Scanning it with OCR sofware is much easier and has remarkably
good/reliable results.

Depending somewhat critically on the state of the printer ribbon!

(Also on the date--especially the year.)

(Phase of the moon is in there somewhere, too.)

I have never found any OCR software that does a decent job on line
printer listings. I have quite a few hundred pages of listings that I
would love to process.

I have had the best luck with a very lame brute force program that I
wrote, and it's not all that good.

Lessee...

Keyboard (once or maybe twice), proofread, and correct a few hundred
pages of listings: maybe two weeks' work, max.

Develop an OCR program that's good enough to use for the purpose (but
still requires careful proofreading of its output): years, possibly
decades of work.

I would, with all due submission, suggest that one does not need a degree
in Engineering Management to figure out what to do in this situation.

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
.... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )

 

[Frank Slootweg]

jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:

Frank Slootweg wrote:
Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 13:54:01 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:

Roland Hutchinson wrote:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:13:11 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:

Roland Hutchinson wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:10:19 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:

Rod Speed wrote:
Walter Bushell wrote
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

WordPervert was never gunna survive, it always had a completely
fucked user interface.

Surprising then that it was so popular right up until Windows
became ubiquitous. I quite liked WordPerfect's interface.

I have head many laments about WordPerfect's demise.

I heard many laments about the demise of punched cards too.

I had to physically remove the last of the card punches to stop the
dinosaurs continuing to use them.

Why in the world would you want to do that?

Opens us a niche or two for the mammals, innit.

But removes hard-copy data and code backup which is human-readable.

That's what the line printer is for!

Line printer output wasn't that great and couldn't be used as input.

Sure it can. It's compatible with the ten-finger interface.

Scanning it with OCR sofware is much easier and has remarkably
good/reliable results.

Sometimes. Think about the listings generated by ribbon ink.

I have had some remarkable results with my lowly EPSON (Perfection
V30) scanner. Also on very old policies which were printed by a (ribbon
ink) line-printer, on photocopies of photocopies of (typewriter) typed
documents, etc.. It was really and eye opener (or closer? ).

 

[Rod Speed]

terryc wrote

Rod Speed wrote

Anyone with even half a clue has backups.

which is why people used the label fields on the cards.

Thats not a backup and is completely useless if someone loses the whole box of cards.

 

[Rod Speed]

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
jmfbahciv wrote just the puerile shit that any 2 year old could leave for dead.

 

[Rod Speed]

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
jmfbahciv wrote just the puerile shit that any 2 year old could leave for dead.

 

[Rod Speed]

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
jmfbahciv wrote just the puerile shit that any 2 year old could leave for dead.

 

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:

Sometimes. Think about the listings generated by ribbon ink.

there have been several past threads about 1403 being much better than
avg. in print quality. normally 1403 was loaded with (cheaper) fabric
ribbon ... but for "finished" copy there was a "film" ribbon that
resulted in higher quality output.
http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/1403.html
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/supplies/supplies_5404PH09.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1403

selectric typewriters (and computer version 2741 terminal) had similar
choice of ribbons, fabric ribbons for normal operation and "film"
ribbons for higher quality output. this mentions, fabric, film, two-color,
and correcting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typewriter

the above mentions that film ribbons were only used once and could have
security implications ... being able to reproduce what was typed from
old ribbons. the above also mentions 2741 selectric terminal. I had
one at home from spring of 1970 until summer of 1977 ... when it was
replaced with cdi "miniterm" ... some old photos here
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#oldpicts

lots of corporate documents started off with standard book production
.... some old
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/

.... however, as some of the documents were moved to CMS script ...
there were more and more had characteristic of originating on 1403. One
of the earliest such was principle of operations:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/370/princOps/

A major reason for moving principle of operations to cms script was the
material was actually a subset of the "architecture manual" (or
"readbook" for being distributed in red 3-ring binder). As cms script
file ... it was possible to have the "conditional" indicators bracketing
the sections that were only in the "principle of operations" ... and
then depending on how cms script was invoked, produce the full
architecture manual or the POP subset.

In the mid-70s, installations started getting the 3800 laser printer
.... which could produce higher quality output
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV3103.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_printer

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

 

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 06:25:51 +1100
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
jmfbahciv wrote just the puerile shit that any 2 year old could leave for
dead.

Hey Barb, I think you've broken it.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

 

[Rod Speed]

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote just the puerile shit that any 2 year old could leave for dead.

 

[keithr]

On 29/11/2010 8:17 AM, Rod Speed wrote:

T.T. wrote

In the punch-card era you always had something in your shirt pocket to write on.

I still use the cards to write on even now.

Cut in half, they go in the wallet fine, now that T shirts dont have shirt pockets.

Apart from that, the whole concept was an abomination.

Specially when you dropped an entire box of cards which didnt have any numbering.

I used to run an IBM 360/50 in the evenings myself.

The printer automatically opened up when it ran out of paper.

One night, someone had a box of cards on the top of the printer.

You could hear the printer cover automatically opening up when it ran out of paper.

The poor bugger ran to the printer when he heard the cover opening.

Didnt get there in time. The box of cards had months of data on those cards.


At the CSIRO Dept of Computing Research back in the mid 70s the hairy

legged "Computer scientists" used to output all their jobs to the card
punch as well as the printer. Some offices were stacked from floor to
ceiling with boxes of cards. The cardpunch itself was a bastard to
maintain, it was always jamming or punching askew. I got the job of
finding the problem which turned out to be that the baseplate had been
completely worn out under the springs that braked the cards as they were
fed into the punching station. The baseplate was the thing that the
whole punch was built on and was a non replaceable part. So I got the
job of telling them that either they could buy a new punch (secondhand
as the punch was obsolete) or do without. There was much sobbing and
gnashing of teeth, we took the punch out and they never punched another
card again which made it obvious that the millions of cards that they
had punched were a total waste of time and money.

ABS were using cards as input right up to the early 80s.

 

[keithr]

On 29/11/2010 8:17 AM, Rod Speed wrote:

T.T. wrote

In the punch-card era you always had something in your shirt pocket to write on.

I still use the cards to write on even now.

Cut in half, they go in the wallet fine, now that T shirts dont have shirt pockets.

Depends on the type, some had oil impregnated into them. Left a nasty
stain in your pocket and hard to write on.

A number of companies gave away cards of the same form factor as punch
cards but thinner an with the company logo as note pads.

I haven't seen a punch card in decades though.

 

[keithr]

On 29/11/2010 12:25 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

In article<UXxIo.3627$gM3.3198@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>,
tonyt92@bigpond.com (T.T.) writes:

In the punch-card era you always had something in your shirt pocket
to write on.

Those cards were my nerd badge, which I wore proudly.

If you wanted to be really nerdy, you carried the dummy cheques that IBM

provided to test their cheque sorters as note pads. I found one the
other day stuck in an old programming manual as a bookmark.

 

[keithr]

On 27/11/2010 12:24 AM, Mr.Magoo wrote:

On 25/11/2010 5:56 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:

Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London

I mentioned this one coming up for auction, a week or two back:
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/computers/rare-apple-i-computer-sells-for-216000-in-london-20101124-1861g.html


yes it sold, and for an interesting price.

I wonder if my piece of art is worth anything?
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/australias-first-pc.html

Cheers Don...

===================



Hmmmm.. wonder what I could get for my Vic20..

A good slapping?

 

[Bill Leary]

"Charles Richmond" <frizzle@tx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:id25h3$84e$1@news.eternal-september.org...

Those computer cards are a big part of what got us where we are today. It
seems mighty ungrateful for anyone to curse or revile them... If it's part
of one's "right of passage" to throw the past into the trash bin, one
might consider these things.

One of the things I've been thankful for having started when cards were
still in use is that I've never had any problem understanding files, records
or fields. When you could hold the "records" in your hand and look at the
"fields" on the card it became very clear. I've used this to teach the
concepts several times. Most recently, I had to bring up some pictures of
cards on the screen because the student had never seen any. But when I did
they got an instant "Oh, yeah!" Of course, "do not bend, fold, spindle, or
mutilate" didn't mean anything to her, but that's the way it goes.

- Bill

 

[Rod Speed]

keithr wrote

Rod Speed wrote
T.T. wrote

In the punch-card era you always had something in your shirt pocket to write on.

I still use the cards to write on even now.

Cut in half, they go in the wallet fine, now that T shirts dont have shirt pockets.

Apart from that, the whole concept was an abomination.

Specially when you dropped an entire box of cards which didnt have any numbering.

I used to run an IBM 360/50 in the evenings myself.

The printer automatically opened up when it ran out of paper.

One night, someone had a box of cards on the top of the printer.

You could hear the printer cover automatically opening up when it ran out of paper.

The poor bugger ran to the printer when he heard the cover opening.

Didnt get there in time. The box of cards had months of data on those cards.

At the CSIRO Dept of Computing Research back in the mid 70s the hairy legged "Computer scientists" used to output all
their jobs to the card punch as well as the printer.

Pigs arse they did.

Some offices were stacked from floor to ceiling with boxes of cards. The cardpunch itself was a bastard to maintain,
it was always jamming or punching askew. I got the job of finding the problem which turned out to be that the
baseplate had been completely worn out under the springs that braked the cards as they were fed into the punching
station. The baseplate was the thing that the whole punch was built on and was a non replaceable part. So I got the
job of telling them that either they could buy a new punch (secondhand as the punch was obsolete) or do without. There
was much sobbing and gnashing of teeth, we took the punch out and they never punched another card again which made it
obvious that the millions of cards that they had punched were a total waste of time and money.

ABS were using cards as input right up to the early 80s.

Yeah, the boxes of punched cards were used to move data between the
1620 and the 360/50 at the ANU, well before that time you are talking about.

 

[Rod Speed]

keithr wrote

Rod Speed wrote
T.T. wrote

In the punch-card era you always had something in your shirt pocket to write on.

I still use the cards to write on even now.

Cut in half, they go in the wallet fine, now that T shirts dont have shirt pockets.

Depends on the type, some had oil impregnated into them.

None the ones I ever bought in large quantity ever did.

Left a nasty stain in your pocket and hard to write on.

A number of companies gave away cards of the same form factor as punch cards but thinner an with the company logo as
note pads.

I haven't seen a punch card in decades though.

I've still got about half a box of them left.

 

[Scott Lurndal]

keithr <keith@nowhere.com.au> writes:

On 29/11/2010 12:25 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
In article<UXxIo.3627$gM3.3198@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>,
tonyt92@bigpond.com (T.T.) writes:

In the punch-card era you always had something in your shirt pocket
to write on.

Those cards were my nerd badge, which I wore proudly.

If you wanted to be really nerdy, you carried the dummy cheques that IBM
provided to test their cheque sorters as note pads. I found one the
other day stuck in an old programming manual as a bookmark.

When I was at Burroughs, I was out in Atlanta training some folks on the
new medium systems MCP, and was testing the reader-sorter code; the test
checks were cancelled employee paychecks from other sites - found several
old checks for current colleagues.

scott