J
jmfbahciv
Guest
Rod Speed wrote:
/BAH
Keypunches were very reliable unless you abused them extremely.
/BAH
J
jmfbahciv
Guest
Charlie Gibbs wrote:
/BAH
/BAH
F
Frank Slootweg
Guest
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
It was A4 format, i.e. about the US 8.5x11" format.
R
Rod Speed
Guest
jmfbahciv wrote
And the cost of having them on maintenance contract was substantial.
Like I said, with a decent collection of punches, there was always one or two with a problem.
And the cost of having them on maintenance contract was substantial.
C
Charles Richmond
Guest
On 12/1/10 10:17 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond |
| |
| plano dot net at aquaporin4 dot com |
+----------------------------------------+
Perhaps I was wearing my "Freudian slip"... ;-)In article<id25h3$84e$1@news.eternal-september.org>, frizzle@tx.rr.com
(Charles Richmond) writes:
On 11/28/10 7:25 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
In article<UXxIo.3627$gM3.3198@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>,
tonyt92@bigpond.com (T.T.) writes:
In the punch-card era you always had something in your shirt pocket
to write on.
Those cards were my nerd badge, which I wore proudly.
Apart from that, the whole concept was an abomination.
On the other hand, it was there and it worked - which put it
miles ahead of anything which sounded nice but which either
didn't exist yet or was prohibitively expensive.
The "covered wagon" helped settle the American west. Just because
the "covered wagon" was *not* a steam train or an airplane, that
is *no* reason that one should curse the "covered wagon".
Those computer cards are a big part of what got us where we are
today. It seems mighty ungrateful for anyone to curse or revile
them... If it's part of one's "right of passage" to throw the past
into the trash bin, one might consider these things.
s/right/rite/
On second thought, given the modern culture of entitlement,
perhaps you're right after all...
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond |
| |
| plano dot net at aquaporin4 dot com |
+----------------------------------------+
C
Charles Richmond
Guest
On 12/1/10 10:05 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
table with a hash or an AVL tree???
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond |
| |
| plano dot net at aquaporin4 dot com |
+----------------------------------------+
What did you do, replace their sequential search of the symbol
table with a hash or an AVL tree???
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond |
| |
| plano dot net at aquaporin4 dot com |
+----------------------------------------+
K
keithr
Guest
On 1/12/2010 1:03 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
Hmm I don't remember anybody called rod speed at DCR, so how would you know?
were pretty anti-IBM, the academics preferred Univac.
K
keithr
Guest
On 1/12/2010 1:05 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
K
keithr
Guest
On 3/12/2010 5:48 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
sprocketed paper (a few were 80 columns)
Doesn't sound like line printer output, that was usually 135 column
sprocketed paper (a few were 80 columns)
A
Andy
Guest
jmfbahciv wrote:
--
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Optimist.
--
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
A
Andy
Guest
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
(it must be running Windows).
--
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
The 'Rod-bot' occasionally gets stuck in a loop, requiring a reboot
(it must be running Windows).
--
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
J
jmfbahciv
Guest
keithr wrote:
to 36s (or do I mean 35s?). The gray work horses with a flat glass
"table" to see the typing.
/BAH
We fed narrow paper to the [damn..I keep forgetting the correct number]
to 36s (or do I mean 35s?). The gray work horses with a flat glass
"table" to see the typing.
/BAH
J
jmfbahciv
Guest
Rod Speed wrote:
That's very odd. My shop had a dozen 26s and one or two 29s. It was very
rare to have one with a down IBM card on it. Those keypunches were used
by students who had minimal training about the care and feeding of
keypunches. The most common mainentance problem was when a student
forgot to flip the switch which lifted the wheels off the drumcard.
But that was fixed in a couple of minutes.
/BAH
<snip>
That's very odd. My shop had a dozen 26s and one or two 29s. It was very
rare to have one with a down IBM card on it. Those keypunches were used
by students who had minimal training about the care and feeding of
keypunches. The most common mainentance problem was when a student
forgot to flip the switch which lifted the wheels off the drumcard.
But that was fixed in a couple of minutes.
How many did you have?
/BAH
J
jmfbahciv
Guest
Andy wrote:
/BAH
interesting.
/BAH
J
Joe Pfeiffer
Guest
keithr <keith@nowhere.com.au> writes:
printers in europe to use A4 in exactly the same circumstances where the
US would use 8 1/2 x 11 (though I don't have any experience with
european computer installations).
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)
Doesn't sound like US line printer output. I'd sort of expect line
printers in europe to use A4 in exactly the same circumstances where the
US would use 8 1/2 x 11 (though I don't have any experience with
european computer installations).
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)
A
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Guest
On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 08:33:40 -0700
Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
80 or 132 columns (10 cpi) and usually 66 lines (6 lpi). A4 was usually
used in daisy wheel printers, although I do recall paper for "NLQ" dot
matrix and early inkjet printers (built like dot matrix printers with an
inkjet head instead of hammers and ribbon) that was sprocketed with "micro
perforations" such that when you (carefully) stripped the sprocket holes
and separated the sheets the result was A4 sized with smooth (ish) edges -
except where it tore while pulling the sprocket strips off.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
All the line printers I saw used sprocketed paper that was either
80 or 132 columns (10 cpi) and usually 66 lines (6 lpi). A4 was usually
used in daisy wheel printers, although I do recall paper for "NLQ" dot
matrix and early inkjet printers (built like dot matrix printers with an
inkjet head instead of hammers and ribbon) that was sprocketed with "micro
perforations" such that when you (carefully) stripped the sprocket holes
and separated the sheets the result was A4 sized with smooth (ish) edges -
except where it tore while pulling the sprocket strips off.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
C
Charlie Gibbs
Guest
In article <id9nng$hvf$3@news.eternal-september.org>, frizzle@tx.rr.com
(Charles Richmond) writes:
then I can use a binary search. But I don't think that was the
main reason my assembler was so much faster. Univac's assembler
was heavily I/O-bound; it must have been doing a lot of passes,
or was keeping too much stuff on disk. The binary had 40 overlays
or so. Mine consisted of 4 phases, with one overlay each for the
second, third and fourth phases. The first phase read the source
file and expanded macros, the second one read the expanded code and
built the symbol table, the third read the expanded code again and
generated the listing, object code, and cross-reference data, and
the fourth sorted and printed the cross-reference data.
If I was assembling a program from a card deck, the first pass
worked directly from the card input without reading it into a
disk file first. You could hear the card reader stutter or pause
at each macro. The second phase ran in about the time it took the
card reader motor to time out and shut down, at which point the
printer fired up and started cranking out the listing.
This was on the Univac 9300, although I used the same principles
when I wrote my OS/3 assembler. Rumour has it that Univac's OS/3
assembler was a hacked version of IBM's DOS/360 assembler, whose
source code somebody found in the trunk of a car. Another rumour
states that IBM wanted it found.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
(Charles Richmond) writes:
I've always been a big fan of insertion sorts for such things -
then I can use a binary search. But I don't think that was the
main reason my assembler was so much faster. Univac's assembler
was heavily I/O-bound; it must have been doing a lot of passes,
or was keeping too much stuff on disk. The binary had 40 overlays
or so. Mine consisted of 4 phases, with one overlay each for the
second, third and fourth phases. The first phase read the source
file and expanded macros, the second one read the expanded code and
built the symbol table, the third read the expanded code again and
generated the listing, object code, and cross-reference data, and
the fourth sorted and printed the cross-reference data.
If I was assembling a program from a card deck, the first pass
worked directly from the card input without reading it into a
disk file first. You could hear the card reader stutter or pause
at each macro. The second phase ran in about the time it took the
card reader motor to time out and shut down, at which point the
printer fired up and started cranking out the listing.
This was on the Univac 9300, although I used the same principles
when I wrote my OS/3 assembler. Rumour has it that Univac's OS/3
assembler was a hacked version of IBM's DOS/360 assembler, whose
source code somebody found in the trunk of a car. Another rumour
states that IBM wanted it found.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
C
Charlie Gibbs
Guest
In article <PM0004966DCB8D7702@aca218f1.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
(jmfbahciv) writes:
lowest priority for machine time, and the quicker I could get in and
out, the more likely I could wheedle access.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
(jmfbahciv) writes:
I don't think there was a threshold so much as programmers had the
lowest priority for machine time, and the quicker I could get in and
out, the more likely I could wheedle access.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
C
Charlie Gibbs
Guest
In article <em4df6draa96s38lv6hud9f1pialqb3bt0@4ax.com>,
ArarghMail011NOSPAM@NOT.AT.Arargh.com (ArarghMail011NOSPAM) writes:
and go to bed. It's the preuf reeding that's the killer.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
ArarghMail011NOSPAM@NOT.AT.Arargh.com (ArarghMail011NOSPAM) writes:
Slow is no problem - get a scanner with a sheet feeder, fire it up,
and go to bed. It's the preuf reeding that's the killer.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
C
Charlie Gibbs
Guest
In article <PM0004968176B23B37@aca28b04.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
(jmfbahciv) writes:
due to jams. For me, this was a benefit, for I knew how to
clear them. In a student area with long lineups for a punch,
it was as if one had been reserved for me; I'd walk past the
lineups, sit down at the jammed punch, clear it, punch my cards,
and leave the punch available for someone else.
star wheels, and knew how to re-attach them...
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
(jmfbahciv) writes:
In our student area, there were usually one or two punches down
due to jams. For me, this was a benefit, for I knew how to
clear them. In a student area with long lineups for a punch,
it was as if one had been reserved for me; I'd walk past the
lineups, sit down at the jammed punch, clear it, punch my cards,
and leave the punch available for someone else.
If you cared to dig down inside the machine and retrieve the missing
star wheels, and knew how to re-attach them...
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!