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On 17/12/2017 10:35 PM, news16 wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 17:41:37 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 17/12/2017 5:29 PM, news16 wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 12:00:15 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:
If the entire electricity supply for Australia were based on solar
panels and lithium ion batteries, constructing those batteries would
take more than the entire world output of lithium for a year.
Sylvia.
Source?
My own calculations of the required lithium versus documented world
production.
World production tends to rise when price paid increases.
And the reserves are depleted more quickly.
On 18/12/2017 9:13 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 17/12/2017 10:35 PM, news16 wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 17:41:37 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 17/12/2017 5:29 PM, news16 wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 12:00:15 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:
If the entire electricity supply for Australia were based on solar
panels and lithium ion batteries, constructing those batteries would
take more than the entire world output of lithium for a year.
Sylvia.
Source?
My own calculations of the required lithium versus documented world
production.
World production tends to rise when price paid increases.
And the reserves are depleted more quickly.
**How many Tonnes do you calculate are required?
There are approximately 230,000,000,000 Tonnes dissolved in seawater alone.
If the entire electricity supply for Australia were based on solar
panels and lithium ion batteries, constructing those batteries would
take more than the entire world output of lithium for a year.
Sylvia.
news16 wrote:
---------------
I'm not worried as they already have alternative working storage
devices.
** And the best of them uses old technology with some new tricks:
...snipped.
The Snowy Mountains Hydro Scheme is essentially a "pumped storage"
system.
.... Phil
On 18/12/2017 3:00 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
**How many Tonnes do you calculate are required?
There are approximately 230,000,000,000 Tonnes dissolved in seawater
alone.
It's not current treated as a reserve because to date there's no
economical way of extracting it. If that changes, then it changes, but
until then it hasn't.
On 12/17/2017 11:00 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
If the entire electricity supply for Australia were based on solar
panels and lithium ion batteries, constructing those batteries would
take more than the entire world output of lithium for a year.
Sylvia.
Just use solar thermal generation with liquid salt storage or start
using wave energy, that works 24/7. Tidal energy has 4 nulls per day,
but they occur at different times in different locations. There are many
options and a lot are cheaper and longer lifed than PV/ Li.
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:22:59 +1000, keithr0 wrote:
On 12/17/2017 11:00 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
If the entire electricity supply for Australia were based on solar
panels and lithium ion batteries, constructing those batteries would
take more than the entire world output of lithium for a year.
Sylvia.
Just use solar thermal generation with liquid salt storage or start
using wave energy, that works 24/7. Tidal energy has 4 nulls per day,
but they occur at different times in different locations. There are many
options and a lot are cheaper and longer lifed than PV/ Li.
IMU, wave energy systems always end up as broken equipment.
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 15:48:24 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 18/12/2017 3:00 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
**How many Tonnes do you calculate are required?
There are approximately 230,000,000,000 Tonnes dissolved in seawater
alone.
It's not current treated as a reserve because to date there's no
economical way of extracting it. If that changes, then it changes, but
until then it hasn't.
"Economical" is not a constant.
On 18/12/2017 11:46 PM, news16 wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 15:48:24 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 18/12/2017 3:00 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
**How many Tonnes do you calculate are required?
There are approximately 230,000,000,000 Tonnes dissolved in seawater
alone.
It's not current treated as a reserve because to date there's no
economical way of extracting it. If that changes, then it changes, but
until then it hasn't.
"Economical" is not a constant.
It isn't, but we can't assume in advance that a particular technology
will be economical within some time-frame, or indeed ever.
I'm all for sustainable power generation, but it's important to realise
technologies that look sustainable may not actually be when one
considers the resources need to construct them, and considering that all
forms of generation have to be constructed over and over because they
don't last forever.
Which data? I identified the nature of the facts I used. They're easyOn 19/12/2017 11:34 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 18/12/2017 11:46 PM, news16 wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 15:48:24 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 18/12/2017 3:00 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
**How many Tonnes do you calculate are required?
There are approximately 230,000,000,000 Tonnes dissolved in seawater
alone.
It's not current treated as a reserve because to date there's no
economical way of extracting it. If that changes, then it changes, but
until then it hasn't.
"Economical" is not a constant.
It isn't, but we can't assume in advance that a particular technology
will be economical within some time-frame, or indeed ever.
I'm all for sustainable power generation, but it's important to
realise technologies that look sustainable may not actually be when
one considers the resources need to construct them, and considering
that all forms of generation have to be constructed over and over
because they don't last forever.
**Ok, then. Supply your data.
On 19/12/2017 11:45 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 19/12/2017 11:34 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 18/12/2017 11:46 PM, news16 wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 15:48:24 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 18/12/2017 3:00 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
**How many Tonnes do you calculate are required?
There are approximately 230,000,000,000 Tonnes dissolved in seawater
alone.
It's not current treated as a reserve because to date there's no
economical way of extracting it. If that changes, then it changes, but
until then it hasn't.
"Economical" is not a constant.
It isn't, but we can't assume in advance that a particular technology
will be economical within some time-frame, or indeed ever.
I'm all for sustainable power generation, but it's important to
realise technologies that look sustainable may not actually be when
one considers the resources need to construct them, and considering
that all forms of generation have to be constructed over and over
because they don't last forever.
**Ok, then. Supply your data.
Which data?
On 18/12/2017 11:46 PM, news16 wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 15:48:24 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:
"Economical" is not a constant.
It isn't, but we can't assume in advance that a particular technology
will be economical within some time-frame, or indeed ever.
I'm all for sustainable power generation, but it's important to realise
technologies that look sustainable may not actually be when one
considers the resources need to construct them, and considering that all
forms of generation have to be constructed over and over because they
don't last forever.
On 19/12/2017 11:45 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 19/12/2017 11:34 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 18/12/2017 11:46 PM, news16 wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 15:48:24 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 18/12/2017 3:00 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
**How many Tonnes do you calculate are required?
There are approximately 230,000,000,000 Tonnes dissolved in seawater
alone.
It's not current treated as a reserve because to date there's no
economical way of extracting it. If that changes, then it changes, but
until then it hasn't.
"Economical" is not a constant.
It isn't, but we can't assume in advance that a particular technology
will be economical within some time-frame, or indeed ever.
I'm all for sustainable power generation, but it's important to
realise technologies that look sustainable may not actually be when
one considers the resources need to construct them, and considering
that all forms of generation have to be constructed over and over
because they don't last forever.
**Ok, then. Supply your data.
Which data? I identified the nature of the facts I used. They're easy
enough to find.
Sylvia.
"Economical" is not a constant.
It isn't, but we can't assume in advance that a particular technology
will be economical within some time-frame, or indeed ever.
I'm all for sustainable power generation, but it's important to
realise technologies that look sustainable may not actually be when
one considers the resources need to construct them, and considering
that all forms of generation have to be constructed over and over
because they don't last forever.
**Ok, then. Supply your data.
Which data? I identified the nature of the facts I used. They're easy
enough to find.
Sylvia.
**OK, Sylvia, from your lack of response, I accept that you cannot
support your irrational hatred of renewable energy.
Trevor Wilson wrote:
----------------------
"Economical" is not a constant.
It isn't, but we can't assume in advance that a particular technology
will be economical within some time-frame, or indeed ever.
I'm all for sustainable power generation, but it's important to
realise technologies that look sustainable may not actually be when
one considers the resources need to construct them, and considering
that all forms of generation have to be constructed over and over
because they don't last forever.
**Ok, then. Supply your data.
Which data? I identified the nature of the facts I used. They're easy
enough to find.
Sylvia.
**OK, Sylvia, from your lack of response, I accept that you cannot
support your irrational hatred of renewable energy.
** FFS, TW, what Sylvia wrote is self evidently fair comment.
YOU have the obligation to show otherwise and that means proving complete nonsense to be true.
I know you are just the man to falsely imagine you can do that.
Tis your only forte.
**If Sylvia is claiming that renewable energy sources are LESS
sustainable than (say) coal fired power nukes, etc, then she needs to
prove that claim.
On 18/12/2017 3:00 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 18/12/2017 9:13 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 17/12/2017 10:35 PM, news16 wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 17:41:37 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 17/12/2017 5:29 PM, news16 wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 12:00:15 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:
If the entire electricity supply for Australia were based on
solar panels and lithium ion batteries, constructing those
batteries would take more than the entire world output of
lithium for a year. Sylvia.
Source?
My own calculations of the required lithium versus documented
world production.
World production tends to rise when price paid increases.
And the reserves are depleted more quickly.
**How many Tonnes do you calculate are required?
There are approximately 230,000,000,000 Tonnes dissolved in seawater
alone.
It's not current treated as a reserve because to date there's no
economical way of extracting it. If that changes, then it changes, but
until then it hasn't.
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 10:57:41 +1100, Trevor Wilson wrote:
**If Sylvia is claiming that renewable energy sources are LESS
sustainable than (say) coal fired power nukes, etc, then she needs to
prove that claim.
She did not make that claim.Her claim was that current available
resources on a battery type not sufficient to meet some future likely
extreme demand.
Once upon a time on usenet Sylvia Else wrote:
It's not current treated as a reserve because to date there's no
economical way of extracting it. If that changes, then it changes, but
until then it hasn't.
One thing that might change it suddenly is the impending need for
desalination plants. A waste-product of those is everything that was
disolved in the seawater....
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 10:57:41 +1100, Trevor Wilson wrote:
**If Sylvia is claiming that renewable energy sources are LESS
sustainable than (say) coal fired power nukes, etc, then she needs to
prove that claim.
She did not make that claim.Her claim was that current available
resources on a battery type not sufficient to meet some future likely
extreme demand.