PRC as a amplifier in GPS question.

[Trevor Wilson]

"Athol" <athol_SPIT_SPAM@idl.net.au> wrote in message
news:1209088115.373965@idlwebserver.idl.com.au...

In aus.cars Trevor Wilson <trevor@_spamblock_rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
"Saab C900 Viggenist" <c900@lios.apana.org.au> wrote:

and there are numerous ways to
arrange the light output from an array of LED's to make them give the
same
or better distribution/spread/whatever compared to using
grossly-inefficient
filament lamps.

**That would depend on the incandescnt and the LED. Howeer, if you want
REAL
efficiency, dump LEDs and use decent discharge lamps. Those puppies are
seriously efficient.

None of these LED assemblies that replace a conventional globe comply with
the ADRs, ECE (European) or DOT (USA) regulations. In all cases, the
light
source is intended to be a filament, the position of which is carefully
defined within the globe relative to the mounting base.

The lamp assembly is designed around the defined light source, ie light
emanating from a filament within a carefully defined envelope inside the
assembly. Fit something other than the correct model of globe and the
lamp
assembly is assumed to not comply with the relevant regulations unless the
modified assembly (ie fitted with LED assembly = modified) is tested to
the
standard again.

Similarly, placing discharge (HID) bulbs into housings intended for
halogen
globes will not comply. The light source will not be emanating from the
correct position to be correctly focussed by the reflector and lens.

**None of which I dispute. What I do dispute is the claim that LEDs are
automatically far more efficient than incandescents.

Trevor Wilson

 

[the_dawggie]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"Athol" <athol_SPIT_SPAM@idl.net.au> wrote in message
news:1209088115.373965@idlwebserver.idl.com.au...
In aus.cars Trevor Wilson <trevor@_spamblock_rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
"Saab C900 Viggenist" <c900@lios.apana.org.au> wrote:
and there are numerous ways to
arrange the light output from an array of LED's to make them give the
same
or better distribution/spread/whatever compared to using
grossly-inefficient
filament lamps.
**That would depend on the incandescnt and the LED. Howeer, if you want
REAL
efficiency, dump LEDs and use decent discharge lamps. Those puppies are
seriously efficient.
None of these LED assemblies that replace a conventional globe comply with
the ADRs, ECE (European) or DOT (USA) regulations. In all cases, the
light
source is intended to be a filament, the position of which is carefully
defined within the globe relative to the mounting base.

The lamp assembly is designed around the defined light source, ie light
emanating from a filament within a carefully defined envelope inside the
assembly. Fit something other than the correct model of globe and the
lamp
assembly is assumed to not comply with the relevant regulations unless the
modified assembly (ie fitted with LED assembly = modified) is tested to
the
standard again.

Similarly, placing discharge (HID) bulbs into housings intended for
halogen
globes will not comply. The light source will not be emanating from the
correct position to be correctly focussed by the reflector and lens.

**None of which I dispute. What I do dispute is the claim that LEDs are
automatically far more efficient than incandescents.

True, it's simply a matter more of them are needed than a
single filament.

Their response time is superior, they are either on or off and
that happens instantly unlike filament.

I played about with LED lamps in standard tail lights, even bent
the leds on the plug in PCBs at angles - they don't work, I would
not pass them.

HID and LED is all fine - better technology, however lenses and
housings, as Athol mentions, have to match.

Gas discharge lamps are prolly the best.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:YudQj.4823$ko5.3502@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Athol" <athol_SPIT_SPAM@idl.net.au> wrote in message
news:1209088115.373965@idlwebserver.idl.com.au...
In aus.cars Trevor Wilson <trevor@_spamblock_rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
"Saab C900 Viggenist" <c900@lios.apana.org.au> wrote:
and there are numerous ways to
arrange the light output from an array of LED's to make them give the
same
or better distribution/spread/whatever compared to using
grossly-inefficient
filament lamps.
**That would depend on the incandescnt and the LED. Howeer, if you want
REAL
efficiency, dump LEDs and use decent discharge lamps. Those puppies are
seriously efficient.
None of these LED assemblies that replace a conventional globe comply
with
the ADRs, ECE (European) or DOT (USA) regulations. In all cases, the
light
source is intended to be a filament, the position of which is carefully
defined within the globe relative to the mounting base.

The lamp assembly is designed around the defined light source, ie light
emanating from a filament within a carefully defined envelope inside the
assembly. Fit something other than the correct model of globe and the
lamp
assembly is assumed to not comply with the relevant regulations unless
the
modified assembly (ie fitted with LED assembly = modified) is tested to
the
standard again.

Similarly, placing discharge (HID) bulbs into housings intended for
halogen
globes will not comply. The light source will not be emanating from the
correct position to be correctly focussed by the reflector and lens.

**None of which I dispute. What I do dispute is the claim that LEDs are
automatically far more efficient than incandescents.

True, it's simply a matter more of them are needed than a
single filament.

**Not necessarily. A Luxeon emitter or a Cree LED could easily equal a 20
Watt brake lamp. With a suitable reflector and lens, it would be
appropriately visible from the sides too. Cheap replacement LED assemblies
do not use Luxeons or Cree devices. They use cheap, narrow beam LEDs.

Their response time is superior, they are either on or off and
that happens instantly unlike filament.

**Yes, no, yes. Their response time is faster. They are not necessarily
either on or off.

I played about with LED lamps in standard tail lights, even bent
the leds on the plug in PCBs at angles - they don't work, I would
not pass them.

**You need to look at a Luxeon device. They're available in 120o patterns.

HID and LED is all fine - better technology, however lenses and
housings, as Athol mentions, have to match.

Gas discharge lamps are prolly the best.

**All quite true.

Trevor Wilson

 

[Scotty]

"the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:YudQj.4823$ko5.3502@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
::
: Their response time is superior, they are either on or off and
: that happens instantly unlike filament.
:
:

For automotive use, filament type lamps are fine, the time it takes to fully illuminate is fuck all
compared to the reaction times of the fella behind you. I dont think the additional millisecond
will make any difference what so ever!

But as far as longevity LEDs are the way to go, should be compulsary for every Taxi on the world.

 

[Athol]

In aus.cars Trevor Wilson <trevor@_spamblock_rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

**None of which I dispute. What I do dispute is the claim that LEDs are
automatically far more efficient than incandescents.

A absolutely agree with you. Unless you're able to get the electronics
right to power the LEDs without wasting a large amount of electricity in
order to get the small amount actually needed for the LEDs, there's
going to be little or no gain.

But given that the type of devices being discussed are intended to be
replacements for incandescent globes, the only light in a vehicle newer
than October 1991 in Australia that can be legally converted is the
interior light.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Scotty" <scoter1@warnmail.com> wrote in message
news:4811728c$0$30465$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:YudQj.4823$ko5.3502@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
::
: Their response time is superior, they are either on or off and
: that happens instantly unlike filament.
:
:

For automotive use, filament type lamps are fine, the time it takes to
fully illuminate is fuck all
compared to the reaction times of the fella behind you. I dont think the
additional millisecond
will make any difference what so ever!

**It's actually more like 250 - 500 milliseconds.

But as far as longevity LEDs are the way to go, should be compulsary for
every Taxi on the world.

**They'll be on all cars real soon.

Trevor Wilson

 

[the_dawggie]

Scotty wrote:

"the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:YudQj.4823$ko5.3502@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
::
: Their response time is superior, they are either on or off and
: that happens instantly unlike filament.
:
:

For automotive use, filament type lamps are fine, the time it takes to fully illuminate is fuck all
compared to the reaction times of the fella behind you. I dont think the additional millisecond
will make any difference what so ever!

But as far as longevity LEDs are the way to go, should be compulsary for every Taxi on the world.

For auto use if set up properly they will be either on or off,
which is different than incandescent bulbs which dim with age.

There is a reason LEDs are being increasingly used world wide
in traffic lights and motor vehicles. Retofit has to be an
entire lighting unit replacement tho

I'd go with HID for headlamps and LED for everything else,
although LED has been used for headlamps.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:chfQj.4864$ko5.1139@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Scotty wrote:
"the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:YudQj.4823$ko5.3502@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
::
: Their response time is superior, they are either on or off and
: that happens instantly unlike filament.
:
:

For automotive use, filament type lamps are fine, the time it takes to
fully illuminate is fuck all compared to the reaction times of the fella
behind you. I dont think the additional millisecond will make any
difference what so ever!

But as far as longevity LEDs are the way to go, should be compulsary for
every Taxi on the world.

For auto use if set up properly they will be either on or off,
which is different than incandescent bulbs which dim with age.

There is a reason LEDs are being increasingly used world wide
in traffic lights and motor vehicles. Retofit has to be an
entire lighting unit replacement tho

I'd go with HID for headlamps and LED for everything else,
although LED has been used for headlamps.

**A couple of years ago, I said that LEDs would never be much use for
headlamps (well, not in the next few years anyway). I've been forced to
revise that opinion. Things have moved very quickly. Cree now have white
LEDs with an output capability of around 100 Lumens/Watt. This is close to
HID lamps and LEDs have the potential to be significantly less expensive and
more robust. A good Halogen is around 25 - 30 Lumens/Watt, so all the LED
guys need to do is increase power levels. This can be done with multi-chip
arrays, but heat sinking remains a stumbling block. A 15 Watt LED gets
damned hot. You've got a 2 sq mm chip, with 100 sq mm of heat sink! Heat
pipes and fans will address some of the issues. Still, if they manage 200 -
300 Lumens/Watt in the next few years, you can kiss halogens goodbye.
Especially those horrible (domestic) downlights. In fact, at 300
Lumens/Watt, there's little point in bothering with HID lamps in automotive
applications.

Trevor Wilson

 

[Scotty]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:67ddb1F2lscjeU1@mid.individual.net...
:
: "Scotty" <scoter1@warnmail.com> wrote in message
: news:4811728c$0$30465$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
: >
: > "the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: > news:YudQj.4823$ko5.3502@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
: > ::
: > : Their response time is superior, they are either on or off and
: > : that happens instantly unlike filament.
: > :
: > :
: >
: > For automotive use, filament type lamps are fine, the time it takes to
: > fully illuminate is fuck all
: > compared to the reaction times of the fella behind you. I dont think the
: > additional millisecond
: > will make any difference what so ever!
:
: **It's actually more like 250 - 500 milliseconds.

I was kinda just giving a rough idea Trevor, still, Id say that half a second is a tad much. From
the supply time till being bright enough to do its job indandecents okay. Half a second could be
adjustment in the brake pedal switch. )

Lets hope that all cars get em real soon, Im sick to death of people with non functioning brake
lights in Qld. Bring on the yearly roadworthies I say.


:
: >
: > But as far as longevity LEDs are the way to go, should be compulsary for
: > every Taxi on the world.
:
: **They'll be on all cars real soon.

Hope so. Esp taxis!

:
: Trevor Wilson
:
:

 

[Scotty]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:67ded2F2mkgolU1@mid.individual.net...
:
: "the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: news:chfQj.4864$ko5.1139@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
: > Scotty wrote:
: >> "the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: >> news:YudQj.4823$ko5.3502@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
: >> ::
: >> : Their response time is superior, they are either on or off and
: >> : that happens instantly unlike filament.
: >> :
: >> :
: >>
: >> For automotive use, filament type lamps are fine, the time it takes to
: >> fully illuminate is fuck all compared to the reaction times of the fella
: >> behind you. I dont think the additional millisecond will make any
: >> difference what so ever!
: >>
: >> But as far as longevity LEDs are the way to go, should be compulsary for
: >> every Taxi on the world.
: >
: > For auto use if set up properly they will be either on or off,
: > which is different than incandescent bulbs which dim with age.
: >
: > There is a reason LEDs are being increasingly used world wide
: > in traffic lights and motor vehicles. Retofit has to be an
: > entire lighting unit replacement tho
: >
: > I'd go with HID for headlamps and LED for everything else,
: > although LED has been used for headlamps.
:
: **A couple of years ago, I said that LEDs would never be much use for
: headlamps (well, not in the next few years anyway). I've been forced to
: revise that opinion. Things have moved very quickly. Cree now have white
: LEDs with an output capability of around 100 Lumens/Watt. This is close to
: HID lamps and LEDs have the potential to be significantly less expensive and
: more robust. A good Halogen is around 25 - 30 Lumens/Watt, so all the LED
: guys need to do is increase power levels. This can be done with multi-chip
: arrays, but heat sinking remains a stumbling block. A 15 Watt LED gets
: damned hot. You've got a 2 sq mm chip, with 100 sq mm of heat sink! Heat
: pipes and fans will address some of the issues. Still, if they manage 200 -
: 300 Lumens/Watt in the next few years, you can kiss halogens goodbye.
: Especially those horrible (domestic) downlights. In fact, at 300
: Lumens/Watt, there's little point in bothering with HID lamps in automotive
: applications.
:
: Trevor Wilson
:

20 years ago a 12volt halogen downlight (lamp only) was approximately $8.00. I see now that the LED
array units are down to $5 already. Now you can buy four times as many for the same price. (You have
to take into account that one transformer can now run many LED array lamps). and get a nicer colour
output while your at it.

Id imagine that modern cars may get like the old jags (I think that they were Jags) where all output
points (interior) were fed via Fibre optic and you only had a single lamp running the lot. How
simple would that me now. At the press of a button change all dash colours out of a single LED.

Its getting a lot more efficient to use LED now that the technology has improved thats for sure.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Scotty" <scoter1@warnmail.com> wrote in message
news:4811a557$0$30462$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:67ded2F2mkgolU1@mid.individual.net...
:
: "the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: news:chfQj.4864$ko5.1139@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
: > Scotty wrote:
: >> "the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: >> news:YudQj.4823$ko5.3502@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
: >> ::
: >> : Their response time is superior, they are either on or off and
: >> : that happens instantly unlike filament.
: >> :
: >> :
:
: >> For automotive use, filament type lamps are fine, the time it takes
to
: >> fully illuminate is fuck all compared to the reaction times of the
fella
: >> behind you. I dont think the additional millisecond will make any
: >> difference what so ever!
:
: >> But as far as longevity LEDs are the way to go, should be compulsary
for
: >> every Taxi on the world.
:
: > For auto use if set up properly they will be either on or off,
: > which is different than incandescent bulbs which dim with age.
:
: > There is a reason LEDs are being increasingly used world wide
: > in traffic lights and motor vehicles. Retofit has to be an
: > entire lighting unit replacement tho
:
: > I'd go with HID for headlamps and LED for everything else,
: > although LED has been used for headlamps.
:
: **A couple of years ago, I said that LEDs would never be much use for
: headlamps (well, not in the next few years anyway). I've been forced to
: revise that opinion. Things have moved very quickly. Cree now have white
: LEDs with an output capability of around 100 Lumens/Watt. This is close
to
: HID lamps and LEDs have the potential to be significantly less expensive
and
: more robust. A good Halogen is around 25 - 30 Lumens/Watt, so all the
LED
: guys need to do is increase power levels. This can be done with
multi-chip
: arrays, but heat sinking remains a stumbling block. A 15 Watt LED gets
: damned hot. You've got a 2 sq mm chip, with 100 sq mm of heat sink! Heat
: pipes and fans will address some of the issues. Still, if they manage
200 -
: 300 Lumens/Watt in the next few years, you can kiss halogens goodbye.
: Especially those horrible (domestic) downlights. In fact, at 300
: Lumens/Watt, there's little point in bothering with HID lamps in
automotive
: applications.
:
: Trevor Wilson
:

20 years ago a 12volt halogen downlight (lamp only) was approximately
$8.00. I see now that the LED
array units are down to $5 already. Now you can buy four times as many for
the same price. (You have
to take into account that one transformer can now run many LED array
lamps). and get a nicer colour
output while your at it.

**Trouble is, those LED arrays only deliver a fraction of the light
delivered by a halogen. The arrays are approximately similar efficiency to a
halogen, but consume a lot less power. Therefore, they deliver a lot less
light. You need to spend the big Bucks on Crees, Luxeons and others to
really get some decent light output. And they are expensive. Very expensive.
It will not always be so.

Id imagine that modern cars may get like the old jags (I think that they
were Jags) where all output
points (interior) were fed via Fibre optic and you only had a single lamp
running the lot. How
simple would that me now. At the press of a button change all dash colours
out of a single LED.

Its getting a lot more efficient to use LED now that the technology has
improved thats for sure.

**All my dash lighting is LED. I used Luxeons. Too expensive for the mass
market and I had to alter the dash lighting level control to suit LEDs (it
needs to be a current control, rather than a Voltage control) too. The
payoff for me is that I don't need to worry about replacing lamps anymore.

Trevor Wilson

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Saab C900 Viggenist" <c900@lios.apana.org.au> wrote in message
news:fus85q$hpp$3@yoda.apana.org.au...

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> writes:


"Athol" <athol_SPIT_SPAM@idl.net.au> wrote in message
news:1209088115.373965@idlwebserver.idl.com.au...
In aus.cars Trevor Wilson <trevor@_spamblock_rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
"Saab C900 Viggenist" <c900@lios.apana.org.au> wrote:

and there are numerous ways to
arrange the light output from an array of LED's to make them give the
same
or better distribution/spread/whatever compared to using
grossly-inefficient
filament lamps.

**That would depend on the incandescnt and the LED. Howeer, if you want
REAL
efficiency, dump LEDs and use decent discharge lamps. Those puppies are
seriously efficient.

None of these LED assemblies that replace a conventional globe comply
with
the ADRs, ECE (European) or DOT (USA) regulations. In all cases, the
light
source is intended to be a filament, the position of which is carefully
defined within the globe relative to the mounting base.

The lamp assembly is designed around the defined light source, ie light
emanating from a filament within a carefully defined envelope inside the
assembly. Fit something other than the correct model of globe and the
lamp
assembly is assumed to not comply with the relevant regulations unless
the
modified assembly (ie fitted with LED assembly = modified) is tested to
the
standard again.

Similarly, placing discharge (HID) bulbs into housings intended for
halogen
globes will not comply. The light source will not be emanating from the
correct position to be correctly focussed by the reflector and lens.

**None of which I dispute. What I do dispute is the claim that LEDs are
automatically far more efficient than incandescents.

In terms of light output against total power consumption, they are streets
ahead.

**Not necessarily. Only when you look at the premium products, like Cree or
Luxeon.

LED's have always been very highly efficient light emitters,

converting almost all of the electrical energy they consume into photons.

**Absolute and complete bollocks. I still have a handful of the first LEDs
easily available on the Australian market. I don't have the figures, but I
guess they are rated at around 0.1 millicandela. A typical, cheap, high
output LED is rated for about 10,000 mCd. Even at 10,000mCd, those LEDs are
way behind Cree and Luxeons. Figure on it being around 1% efficient. IOW: 1%
of electrical energy is converted to light. The rest is converted to heat.

Filament lamps, by comparison, are extremely inefficient, with efficiences
well under 50 percent and in most cases, it's no better than 20 to 30
percent. That's why filament lamps produce so much heat.

**Wrong. Incandescents are VASTLY less efficient than 50%. Maybe 0.1% - 1%
efficient.

The issue has been creating LED products that can output enough light to
match filament lamps, but that's got little to do with the differences in
efficiency. It's because LED's are so efficient that creating the
technology
to make them comparable to filament lamps has actually happened.

**Only very high performance LEDs are significantly more efficient than
incadescents. Where they score very well, in in green and blue. Blue,
particularly, is a colour not easly produced by incandescents.

Filament lamps have been around for longer than motor vehicles powered by
internal combustion engines have existed, but because they are so cheap to
make (which belies their inefficiency) they've persisted for almost 100
years as the primary source of auxilliary lighting in motor vehicles.

**Of course. Simple and cheap. Just what the automotive industry lusts
after. Do not be misled, however. Your efficiency statements are way off the
mark. And it's blindingly simple for you to prove it for yourself. Grab a
decent HALOGEN torch. Measure the current flow and the light output. Then
try to achieve the same figures with an LED. You'll need a Cree or Luxeon
emitter to do so. You'll find that, unless you are using the very latest
Cree devices, that the light delivered by the LED is similar to that
delivered by the halogen. The rest goes in heat. And for that, you need a
decent heat sink on the Cree or the Luxeon. They get hot. Bloody hot.

Trevor Wilson

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Saab C900 Viggenist" <c900@lios.apana.org.au> wrote in message
news:fus79t$hpp$1@yoda.apana.org.au...

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> writes:


"Saab C900 Viggenist" <c900@lios.apana.org.au> wrote in message
news:fuodkt$5dv$1@yoda.apana.org.au...
the_dawggie <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> writes:

David Z wrote:
Was behind a Falcon today and noticed the tail-lights had an
interesting
pattern. Instead of a bulb or bulbs, there were lots and lots of
little
bright dots arranged in a circular pattern (picture rings around a
planet to get an idea). Although the BA/BF "shape" has been around
since '02, I've never really noticed it until now. Are these actually
LED tail-lights and if so, were they a recent addition or have they
always been there? I think it was a base XT model too.

All sorts of aftermarket products are available ...

And LED replacement lights are really good for reducing energy usage
(which
means less current draw in wiring, etc.),

**Not so much. UNLESS you are using the very latest and very expensive
LEDs,
typical high efficiency white LEDs are approximately as efficient as
halogens. The big problem, of course, is operating temperature. LEDs
cannot
be allowed to exceed 150oC.

Yes that's one of the major problems - the current crop of
commercially-available high-power LED's (Luxeon, etc.) require special
power
supplies to drive them (though that isn't really much of a problem), and
even though they're extremely efficent, they still produce a fair amount
of
waste heat that has to be dissipated somewhere.

Then again, if you had to generate the same light output using any type of
filament lamp, the waste energy produced due to extremely increased
current
comsumption compared to LED's would result in a fire very, very quickly!

It would be like trying to use a 500 watt halogen spotlight to get the
same
light output of a modern 10 watt high-effiency LED. Or somewhere in that
order of magnitude.

**Not even close. If you're comparing a late model Cree device, then figure
on a 10 Watt LED equalling a 40 Watt halogen. Pretty impressive, but the LED
costs ten times more. Then you have to drive the LED correctly. Then you
have to heat sink the puppy.

I suggest you do some more research. You have no idea of the real figures in
this area.

Trevor Wilson

 

[Bugalugs]

Saab C900 Viggenist wrote:

Bugalugs <bugalugs67@netscape.net!> writes:

Did the replacing of the interior light solve the original problem ??

Can you now leave the door ajar for a week and still start the car ??

Probably not a week since there are other parasitic loads besides the lamps,
but the current drain is definintely MUCH less into the boot light which was
the thing that originally triggered the whole 'project' off.

I have on a couple of occasions left the door ajar and drained down the
main battery, and the immobiliser is set, and it flattens the alarm
batteries, and the charger wont bring it back up, and, and..., and...,
and there is lots of swearing, and I have only got access to 1 vehicle.

In reality there's a lot more to it because the battery self-discharges
somewhat over time anyway so that compounds anything else that's going on,
and depending on the condition of the starter motor, solenoid, etc. even
with a good battery, on a really cold day when the chemistry in the battery
is 'slowed down' due to the drop in temp it can still take a fair bit to
crank over an engine enough to get it to fire and run.

The other thing about colder weather and is that the starter solenoid can
take a bit more magnetic field strength before it'll engage the power feed
to the main starter windings.

It'd be different for every case, but the overall benefits of going with LED
lamps far outweigh any downside as far as my experience is concerned, but
they're not a panacea for overcoming other issues with a car's electrical
system.

I run with LED lights in the front and rear clusters on both of my
registered Saab's. The only lights not LED-based are the H4 headlamp bulbs,
but technology will improve to make replacements for those possible in time.

Craig.

Thanks. I already have HID headlamps as OE although the highbeam is QH
and is not much chop. It would be easy to outdrive it.

I was contemplating changing just the interior lights to give me a bit
more margin for when I have another senior moment and walk away leaving
a door only partly shut. There will still be the drain of the radio, the
clock, and the computer system but it might give me more time to find
out I had f*cked up. The last time someone had to come out, pick me up
and take me into town to get a new battery. I hate having to call on
people to help me out.

Cam

 

[Saab C900 Viggenist]

Bugalugs <bugalugs67@netscape.net!> writes:

Did the replacing of the interior light solve the original problem ??

Can you now leave the door ajar for a week and still start the car ??

Probably not a week since there are other parasitic loads besides the lamps,
but the current drain is definintely MUCH less into the boot light which was
the thing that originally triggered the whole 'project' off.

I have on a couple of occasions left the door ajar and drained down the
main battery, and the immobiliser is set, and it flattens the alarm
batteries, and the charger wont bring it back up, and, and..., and...,
and there is lots of swearing, and I have only got access to 1 vehicle.

In reality there's a lot more to it because the battery self-discharges
somewhat over time anyway so that compounds anything else that's going on,
and depending on the condition of the starter motor, solenoid, etc. even
with a good battery, on a really cold day when the chemistry in the battery
is 'slowed down' due to the drop in temp it can still take a fair bit to
crank over an engine enough to get it to fire and run.

The other thing about colder weather and is that the starter solenoid can
take a bit more magnetic field strength before it'll engage the power feed
to the main starter windings.

It'd be different for every case, but the overall benefits of going with LED
lamps far outweigh any downside as far as my experience is concerned, but
they're not a panacea for overcoming other issues with a car's electrical
system.

I run with LED lights in the front and rear clusters on both of my
registered Saab's. The only lights not LED-based are the H4 headlamp bulbs,
but technology will improve to make replacements for those possible in time.

Craig.
--
Craig's Saab C900 Page at | Craig's Classic Saab Workshop - Sydney .au
http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 | http://www.classicsaab.net and other URL's
Email: c900@lios.apana.org.au | For Saab 99/C900/9000 Enthusiasts World-Wide!
Alternate: saabonaut@gmail.com | Web-forums, galleries, library, links, etc.

 

[Saab C900 Viggenist]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> writes:

"Saab C900 Viggenist" <c900@lios.apana.org.au> wrote in message
news:fuodkt$5dv$1@yoda.apana.org.au...
the_dawggie <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> writes:

David Z wrote:
Was behind a Falcon today and noticed the tail-lights had an interesting
pattern. Instead of a bulb or bulbs, there were lots and lots of little
bright dots arranged in a circular pattern (picture rings around a
planet to get an idea). Although the BA/BF "shape" has been around
since '02, I've never really noticed it until now. Are these actually
LED tail-lights and if so, were they a recent addition or have they
always been there? I think it was a base XT model too.

All sorts of aftermarket products are available ...

And LED replacement lights are really good for reducing energy usage
(which
means less current draw in wiring, etc.),

**Not so much. UNLESS you are using the very latest and very expensive LEDs,
typical high efficiency white LEDs are approximately as efficient as
halogens. The big problem, of course, is operating temperature. LEDs cannot
be allowed to exceed 150oC.

Yes that's one of the major problems - the current crop of
commercially-available high-power LED's (Luxeon, etc.) require special power
supplies to drive them (though that isn't really much of a problem), and
even though they're extremely efficent, they still produce a fair amount of
waste heat that has to be dissipated somewhere.

Then again, if you had to generate the same light output using any type of
filament lamp, the waste energy produced due to extremely increased current
comsumption compared to LED's would result in a fire very, very quickly!

It would be like trying to use a 500 watt halogen spotlight to get the same
light output of a modern 10 watt high-effiency LED. Or somewhere in that
order of magnitude.

Craig.
--
Craig's Saab C900 Page at | Craig's Classic Saab Workshop - Sydney .au
http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 | http://www.classicsaab.net and other URL's
Email: c900@lios.apana.org.au | For Saab 99/C900/9000 Enthusiasts World-Wide!
Alternate: saabonaut@gmail.com | Web-forums, galleries, library, links, etc.

 

[Saab C900 Viggenist]

Athol <athol_SPIT_SPAM@idl.net.au> writes:

In aus.cars Trevor Wilson <trevor@_spamblock_rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
"Saab C900 Viggenist" <c900@lios.apana.org.au> wrote:

and there are numerous ways to
arrange the light output from an array of LED's to make them give the same
or better distribution/spread/whatever compared to using
grossly-inefficient
filament lamps.

**That would depend on the incandescnt and the LED. Howeer, if you want REAL
efficiency, dump LEDs and use decent discharge lamps. Those puppies are
seriously efficient.

None of these LED assemblies that replace a conventional globe comply with
the ADRs, ECE (European) or DOT (USA) regulations. In all cases, the light
source is intended to be a filament, the position of which is carefully
defined within the globe relative to the mounting base.

That's true, but personally, after having tested a few different types, I'm
of the view that if chosen correctly, replacement LED lamps do a perfectly
fine job of replacing their filament-based cousins.

I don't know how it would be possible to actually test that replacement
generic LED lamps currently available to determine their 'compliance' with
ADR's unless every make/model of vehicle currently driven in Australia was
seperately tested with the most suitable generic LED replacement lamps that
can be bought in the general marketplace through Ebay sellers or auto parts
retailers.

The makes/models of new cars actually sold with LED lighting tend to have
very, very poorly conceived light arrays so it probably hinders people's
acceptance of LED replacement lighting solutions. The flood of very poor
quality Asian-made product isn't contributing either - took me a while to
locate sources of good quality product and in fact most of the original
batches of LED lamps I bought came from UltraLED's in the UK, and not from
cheap-arse Asian ebay sellers.

Craig.
--
Craig's Saab C900 Page at | Craig's Classic Saab Workshop - Sydney .au
http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 | http://www.classicsaab.net and other URL's
Email: c900@lios.apana.org.au | For Saab 99/C900/9000 Enthusiasts World-Wide!
Alternate: saabonaut@gmail.com | Web-forums, galleries, library, links, etc.

 

[Saab C900 Viggenist]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> writes:

"Athol" <athol_SPIT_SPAM@idl.net.au> wrote in message
news:1209088115.373965@idlwebserver.idl.com.au...
In aus.cars Trevor Wilson <trevor@_spamblock_rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
"Saab C900 Viggenist" <c900@lios.apana.org.au> wrote:

and there are numerous ways to
arrange the light output from an array of LED's to make them give the
same
or better distribution/spread/whatever compared to using
grossly-inefficient
filament lamps.

**That would depend on the incandescnt and the LED. Howeer, if you want
REAL
efficiency, dump LEDs and use decent discharge lamps. Those puppies are
seriously efficient.

None of these LED assemblies that replace a conventional globe comply with
the ADRs, ECE (European) or DOT (USA) regulations. In all cases, the
light
source is intended to be a filament, the position of which is carefully
defined within the globe relative to the mounting base.

The lamp assembly is designed around the defined light source, ie light
emanating from a filament within a carefully defined envelope inside the
assembly. Fit something other than the correct model of globe and the
lamp
assembly is assumed to not comply with the relevant regulations unless the
modified assembly (ie fitted with LED assembly = modified) is tested to
the
standard again.

Similarly, placing discharge (HID) bulbs into housings intended for
halogen
globes will not comply. The light source will not be emanating from the
correct position to be correctly focussed by the reflector and lens.

**None of which I dispute. What I do dispute is the claim that LEDs are
automatically far more efficient than incandescents.

In terms of light output against total power consumption, they are streets
ahead. LED's have always been very highly efficient light emitters,
converting almost all of the electrical energy they consume into photons.
Filament lamps, by comparison, are extremely inefficient, with efficiences
well under 50 percent and in most cases, it's no better than 20 to 30
percent. That's why filament lamps produce so much heat.

The issue has been creating LED products that can output enough light to
match filament lamps, but that's got little to do with the differences in
efficiency. It's because LED's are so efficient that creating the technology
to make them comparable to filament lamps has actually happened.

Filament lamps have been around for longer than motor vehicles powered by
internal combustion engines have existed, but because they are so cheap to
make (which belies their inefficiency) they've persisted for almost 100
years as the primary source of auxilliary lighting in motor vehicles.

Craig.
--
Craig's Saab C900 Page at | Craig's Classic Saab Workshop - Sydney .au
http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 | http://www.classicsaab.net and other URL's
Email: c900@lios.apana.org.au | For Saab 99/C900/9000 Enthusiasts World-Wide!
Alternate: saabonaut@gmail.com | Web-forums, galleries, library, links, etc.

 

[Mr.T]

"Scotty" <scoter1@warnmail.com> wrote in message
news:4811a3e9$0$30463$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Lets hope that all cars get em real soon, Im sick to death of people with
non functioning brake
lights in Qld. Bring on the yearly roadworthies I say.

Unfortunately it will not solve the bigger problem of non functioning turn
indicators caused by many drivers inability to use the switch.
(or the even worse problem of their inability to use their mirrors, and turn
their heads!)

IME most cars are usually far better than those driving them.

MrT.

 

[Saab C900 Viggenist]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> writes:

I suggest you do some more research. You have no idea of the real figures in
this area.

And not all of us have an 'abundance' of Luxeon, Cree, etc. LED devices to
experiment with.

LED's are far superior light emitters than filament lamps because in
filament lamps so little of the energy is converted to visible light, and
most is turned into infrared (ie. heat) - it's not as little as 1 percent
though it is a small proportion.

Even el-cheapo 5 cent LED's (not intended for use in automotive
applications) convert almost all the electrical energy passing through them
into photons (ie. light), precisely how/where in the very narrow visible
part of the EM spectrum depends on the doping, etc. of the material the
functional part of the LED is made from (not including LED's designed to
emit invisible light such as IR led's).

So yes I know what I'm on about. No I do not have any of these Cree devices,
and I'm yet to find a luxeon device that can used a drop-in replacement for
any of the standard types of interior automotive lamps commonly used, or for
any of the standard types of indicator or brake lights commonly used,
without having to add additional electronics to drive them, and creative
ways to heatsink them.

So I don't think that the high-powered LED devices are really the answer for
replacing the common types of small filament lamps used in most cars, at
least not yet until they can be made into proper drop-in replacement devices
that don't need special 'interface' hardware, etc.

Craig.
--
Craig's Saab C900 Page at | Craig's Classic Saab Workshop - Sydney .au
http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 | http://www.classicsaab.net and other URL's
Email: c900@lios.apana.org.au | For Saab 99/C900/9000 Enthusiasts World-Wide!
Alternate: saabonaut@gmail.com | Web-forums, galleries, library, links, etc.