Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...

A

Arfa Daily

Guest
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers (in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc 'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear. Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
....

Arfa
 
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:2tTMr.934634$ME5.383908@fx22.am4...
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc 'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear. Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
...

Arfa
Click to expand...
So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your wire
fudge bridge after placement.
 
klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d5f23888-3873-4b9f-a0d0-7dbaaa01c05d@t32g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 16, 9:21 am, "N_Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
Arfa Daily <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:2tTMr.934634$ME5.383908@fx22.am4...









God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two
weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode
shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the
device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I
guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was
reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc
'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.
Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first
place
...

Arfa

So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove
their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your
wire
fudge bridge after placement.
Click to expand...
I was given a small battery powered soldering iron a few years ago as
a gift. It came with a small coil of solder. In the beginning I'd take
it on small jobs with me and I noticed that I could never do a good
soldering job with the thing. Now I've been soldering for over 50
years so I figured it couldn't have been me. The solder wouldn't flow,
it would blob etc. Finally one morning while on the throne having
nothing better to read, I read trough the instructions for the
miserable thing. It seems like the manufacturer had seen fit to
package these things with lead free solder. As soon as I got rid of
the worthless stuff the iron was fine. Thankfully we don't have to
deal with that bullshit here in the US yet but it is getting difficult
to find 60/40 in surplus. I'm certain that one day some misinformed
idiot over here is going to picture a baby chewing on a PC board and
get a whole shitload of money and influence together and lobby
Congress to enact similar laws as the EU has. Then we'll be shaving
the whiskers off our boards too. Lenny

+++++

So how many genuine American manufactures are there ? That is use
leaded-solder tinned components as well as leaded solder for assembly?
There is only one production line type used in China , Taiwan etc these days
, they had to go with Europe , the biggest market, 6 years ago and is now
all PbF (outside of derogated industry enduse ).
I suspect any genuine USA manufacturing, outside of the derogated
aerospace/medical/defense/nuclear industries, using proper solder, is in the
range 0 to 5 percent

Just because "American" equipment is not marked with PbF or RoHS etc , does
not mean there is not PbF inside. Do some basic physical tests on the solder
, along with researching the UL E-number on the boards will likely show its
from the orient .
 
"N_Cook" wrote in message news:ju14ph$an2$1@dont-email.me...

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:2tTMr.934634$ME5.383908@fx22.am4...
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc 'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear. Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
...

Arfa
Click to expand...
So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your wire
fudge bridge after placement.

***Pretty much what I was thinking - maybe a loop of that thin Kynar
"kludge" wire that you can wiggle off once the laser is safely in. Maybe a
strip of thick black anti-static bag & a paper clip on the end of the
flexiprint between the blob coming off & the link going on.
 
On Jul 16, 9:21 am, "N_Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
Arfa Daily <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:2tTMr.934634$ME5.383908@fx22.am4...









God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc 'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear. Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
...

Arfa

So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your wire
fudge bridge after placement.
Click to expand...
I was given a small battery powered soldering iron a few years ago as
a gift. It came with a small coil of solder. In the beginning I'd take
it on small jobs with me and I noticed that I could never do a good
soldering job with the thing. Now I've been soldering for over 50
years so I figured it couldn't have been me. The solder wouldn't flow,
it would blob etc. Finally one morning while on the throne having
nothing better to read, I read trough the instructions for the
miserable thing. It seems like the manufacturer had seen fit to
package these things with lead free solder. As soon as I got rid of
the worthless stuff the iron was fine. Thankfully we don't have to
deal with that bullshit here in the US yet but it is getting difficult
to find 60/40 in surplus. I'm certain that one day some misinformed
idiot over here is going to picture a baby chewing on a PC board and
get a whole shitload of money and influence together and lobby
Congress to enact similar laws as the EU has. Then we'll be shaving
the whiskers off our boards too. Lenny
 
"Ian Field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:N0FOr.22676$PE.21791@fx04.am4...
"N_Cook" wrote in message news:ju14ph$an2$1@dont-email.me...

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:2tTMr.934634$ME5.383908@fx22.am4...
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc
'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.
Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
...

Arfa


So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove
their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your
wire
fudge bridge after placement.

***Pretty much what I was thinking - maybe a loop of that thin Kynar
"kludge" wire that you can wiggle off once the laser is safely in. Maybe a
strip of thick black anti-static bag & a paper clip on the end of the
flexiprint between the blob coming off & the link going on.
Click to expand...
Yes, all valid suggestions, but what pisses me off is that you have to start
coming up with this crap in order to make what was a perfectly suitable
system work again, now that they've changed over to this useless,
not-fit-for-purpose electric glue ... >:-(

Arfa
 
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message news:DLIOr.29112$ma6.17706@fx09.am4...



"Ian Field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:N0FOr.22676$PE.21791@fx04.am4...
"N_Cook" wrote in message news:ju14ph$an2$1@dont-email.me...

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:2tTMr.934634$ME5.383908@fx22.am4...
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc
'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.
Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
...

Arfa


So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove
their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your
wire
fudge bridge after placement.

***Pretty much what I was thinking - maybe a loop of that thin Kynar
"kludge" wire that you can wiggle off once the laser is safely in. Maybe a
strip of thick black anti-static bag & a paper clip on the end of the
flexiprint between the blob coming off & the link going on.
Click to expand...
Yes, all valid suggestions, but what pisses me off is that you have to start
coming up with this crap in order to make what was a perfectly suitable
system work again, now that they've changed over to this useless,
not-fit-for-purpose electric glue ... >:-(

Arfa

***Just remembered an amusing anecdote: One of the home computer firms in
the 80's (might have been Sinclair?) quit doing home build kits after
someone returned a kit to their service dept, all the components very neatly
assembled into the PCB - and secured with polystyrene cement!

***I'd put money on it being one of the Brussels suits behind the RoHS
directive.
 
"Ian Field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3MTOr.58009$Hs2.47877@fx27.am4...
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message news:DLIOr.29112$ma6.17706@fx09.am4...



"Ian Field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:N0FOr.22676$PE.21791@fx04.am4...


"N_Cook" wrote in message news:ju14ph$an2$1@dont-email.me...

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:2tTMr.934634$ME5.383908@fx22.am4...
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two
weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode
shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the
device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I
guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was
reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc
'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.
Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first
place
...

Arfa


So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove
their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your
wire
fudge bridge after placement.

***Pretty much what I was thinking - maybe a loop of that thin Kynar
"kludge" wire that you can wiggle off once the laser is safely in. Maybe
a strip of thick black anti-static bag & a paper clip on the end of the
flexiprint between the blob coming off & the link going on.


Yes, all valid suggestions, but what pisses me off is that you have to
start
coming up with this crap in order to make what was a perfectly suitable
system work again, now that they've changed over to this useless,
not-fit-for-purpose electric glue ... >:-(

Arfa

***Just remembered an amusing anecdote: One of the home computer firms in
the 80's (might have been Sinclair?) quit doing home build kits after
someone returned a kit to their service dept, all the components very
neatly assembled into the PCB - and secured with polystyrene cement!

***I'd put money on it being one of the Brussels suits behind the RoHS
directive.
Click to expand...
ROTFLMAO !!!!

Arfa
 
On Jul 22, 7:30 pm, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
"Ian Field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:3MTOr.58009$Hs2.47877@fx27.am4...











"Arfa Daily"  wrote in messagenews:DLIOr.29112$ma6.17706@fx09.am4...

"Ian Field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:N0FOr.22676$PE.21791@fx04.am4...

"N_Cook"  wrote in messagenews:ju14ph$an2$1@dont-email.me...

Arfa Daily <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:2tTMr.934634$ME5.383908@fx22.am4...
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two
weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode
shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the
device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I
guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was
reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc
'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.
Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first
place
...

Arfa

So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove
their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your
wire
fudge bridge after placement.

***Pretty much what I was thinking - maybe a loop of that thin Kynar
"kludge" wire that you can wiggle off once the laser is safely in. Maybe
a strip of thick black anti-static bag & a paper clip on the end of the
flexiprint between the blob coming off & the link going on.

Yes, all valid suggestions, but what pisses me off is that you have to
start
coming up with this crap in order to make what was a perfectly suitable
system work again, now that they've changed over to this useless,
not-fit-for-purpose electric glue ...    >:-(

Arfa

***Just remembered an amusing anecdote: One of the home computer firms in
the 80's (might have been Sinclair?) quit doing home build kits after
someone returned a kit to their service dept, all the components very
neatly assembled into the PCB - and secured with polystyrene cement!

***I'd put money on it being one of the Brussels suits behind the RoHS
directive.

ROTFLMAO !!!!

Arfa
Click to expand...
Cement!!!
Some people should not be allowed to operate a door bell. Idiocy has
no bounds. Lenny
 
"klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:94ec0fc1-00dc-4894-9583-dfae81fa2003@u2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 22, 7:30 pm, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
"Ian Field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:3MTOr.58009$Hs2.47877@fx27.am4...











"Arfa Daily" wrote in messagenews:DLIOr.29112$ma6.17706@fx09.am4...

"Ian Field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:N0FOr.22676$PE.21791@fx04.am4...

"N_Cook" wrote in messagenews:ju14ph$an2$1@dont-email.me...

Arfa Daily <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:2tTMr.934634$ME5.383908@fx22.am4...
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two
weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these
lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode
shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb
that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the
device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I
guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody
stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible
whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and
hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was
reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more
time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc
'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and
on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected,
it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that
you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.
Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first
place
...

Arfa

So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove
their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your
wire
fudge bridge after placement.

***Pretty much what I was thinking - maybe a loop of that thin Kynar
"kludge" wire that you can wiggle off once the laser is safely in.
Maybe
a strip of thick black anti-static bag & a paper clip on the end of
the
flexiprint between the blob coming off & the link going on.

Yes, all valid suggestions, but what pisses me off is that you have to
start
coming up with this crap in order to make what was a perfectly suitable
system work again, now that they've changed over to this useless,
not-fit-for-purpose electric glue ... >:-(

Arfa

***Just remembered an amusing anecdote: One of the home computer firms
in
the 80's (might have been Sinclair?) quit doing home build kits after
someone returned a kit to their service dept, all the components very
neatly assembled into the PCB - and secured with polystyrene cement!

***I'd put money on it being one of the Brussels suits behind the RoHS
directive.

ROTFLMAO !!!!

Arfa

Cement!!!
Some people should not be allowed to operate a door bell. Idiocy has
no bounds. Lenny
Click to expand...
Polystyrene cement - AKA; Airfix glue.
 
In article <3MTOr.58009$Hs2.47877@fx27.am4>,
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com says...
***Just remembered an amusing anecdote: One of the home computer firms in
the 80's (might have been Sinclair?) quit doing home build kits after
someone returned a kit to their service dept, all the components very neatly
assembled into the PCB - and secured with polystyrene cement!
Click to expand...
I saw one once! It was a transistor radio kit - a bit before the days of
personal computers - which had been put together with Solderlene* - sold
as liquid cold solder!

Basically, polystyrene cement with silver colouring added ...!

*It's still around!

http://www.alcolin.com/diy-products/solvent-based/solderlene

I don't think the tubes said anything about being non conductive in
those days, though!

--

Terry
 
"klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:efd4d0d5-f652-467a-9bc2-09d25d6a9526@u9g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 28, 1:40 pm, Terry Casey <k.t...@example.invalid> wrote:
In article <3MTOr.58009$Hs2.47...@fx27.am4>,
gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com says...



***Just remembered an amusing anecdote: One of the home computer firms
in
the 80's (might have been Sinclair?) quit doing home build kits after
someone returned a kit to their service dept, all the components very
neatly
assembled into the PCB - and secured with polystyrene cement!

I saw one once! It was a transistor radio kit - a bit before the days of
personal computers - which had been put together with Solderlene* - sold
as liquid cold solder!

Basically, polystyrene cement with silver colouring added ...!

*It's still around!

http://www.alcolin.com/diy-products/solvent-based/solderlene

I don't think the tubes said anything about being non conductive in
those days, though!
Click to expand...

Someone on a motorcycle group has claimed that Blu-tack sets rock hard in
contact with petrol, and as such makes a good repair putty for fuel tanks.

I've made no attempt to test this theory - any experiments along these lines
are entirely at your own risk!
 
On Jul 28, 1:40 pm, Terry Casey <k.t...@example.invalid> wrote:
In article <3MTOr.58009$Hs2.47...@fx27.am4>,
gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com says...



***Just remembered an amusing anecdote: One of the home computer firms in
the 80's (might have been Sinclair?) quit doing home build kits after
someone returned a kit to their service dept, all the components very neatly
assembled into the PCB - and secured with polystyrene cement!

I saw one once! It was a transistor radio kit - a bit before the days of
personal computers - which had been put together with Solderlene* - sold
as liquid cold solder!

Basically, polystyrene cement with silver colouring added ...!

*It's still around!

http://www.alcolin.com/diy-products/solvent-based/solderlene

I don't think the tubes said anything about being non conductive in
those days, though!

--

Terry
Click to expand...
We have JB Weld in the US. I wonder if it's a similar product. I've
heard of people plugging holes in gas tanks with this stuff. Lenny
http://jbweld.net/index.php
 
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:27:50 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
<captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jul 16, 9:21 am, "N_Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
Arfa Daily <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:2tTMr.934634$ME5.383908@fx22.am4...









God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc 'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear. Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
...

Arfa

So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your wire
fudge bridge after placement.

I was given a small battery powered soldering iron a few years ago as
a gift. It came with a small coil of solder. In the beginning I'd take
it on small jobs with me and I noticed that I could never do a good
soldering job with the thing. Now I've been soldering for over 50
years so I figured it couldn't have been me. The solder wouldn't flow,
it would blob etc. Finally one morning while on the throne having
nothing better to read, I read trough the instructions for the
miserable thing. It seems like the manufacturer had seen fit to
package these things with lead free solder. As soon as I got rid of
the worthless stuff the iron was fine. Thankfully we don't have to
deal with that bullshit here in the US yet but it is getting difficult
to find 60/40 in surplus. I'm certain that one day some misinformed
idiot over here is going to picture a baby chewing on a PC board and
get a whole shitload of money and influence together and lobby
Congress to enact similar laws as the EU has. Then we'll be shaving
the whiskers off our boards too. Lenny
I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in
Click to expand...
electronic devices is compared to the lead that used to be in paint
and gasoline? In the July 28th issue of Science News there is an
article about California Condors ingesting lead from animals killed by
being shot with lead bullets or shot. According to the article the
condors are being poisoned by the lead and it has such a deleterious
effect on the condors that without human care the condors would die
out. Their population is not self sustaining without human
intervention because of the lead. And there is plenty of evidence that
lead in gasoline and lead bearing paint has caused neurogical damage,
among other health problems, in children. Banning leaded gasoline and
lead bearing paint has shown a marked decrease in neurological
deficits in children typically exposed to lead in the past. Even so,
how much of a problem is lead in electronic devices? Would we be
better off with some type of legislation that requires electronic
devices to be accepted by retailers for recycling? Maybe by putting a
deposit on electronic devices that is refunded when the device is
replaced?
Eric
 
<etpm@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:um79181a57a4aqblu4bj82ps18mcj9kvpq@4ax.com...
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:27:50 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jul 16, 9:21 am, "N_Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
Arfa Daily <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:2tTMr.934634$ME5.383908@fx22.am4...









God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two
weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these
lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode
shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb
that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the
device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I
guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody
stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible
whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and
hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was
reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more
time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc
'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and
on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected,
it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that
you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.
Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first
place
...

Arfa

So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove
their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your
wire
fudge bridge after placement.

I was given a small battery powered soldering iron a few years ago as
a gift. It came with a small coil of solder. In the beginning I'd take
it on small jobs with me and I noticed that I could never do a good
soldering job with the thing. Now I've been soldering for over 50
years so I figured it couldn't have been me. The solder wouldn't flow,
it would blob etc. Finally one morning while on the throne having
nothing better to read, I read trough the instructions for the
miserable thing. It seems like the manufacturer had seen fit to
package these things with lead free solder. As soon as I got rid of
the worthless stuff the iron was fine. Thankfully we don't have to
deal with that bullshit here in the US yet but it is getting difficult
to find 60/40 in surplus. I'm certain that one day some misinformed
idiot over here is going to picture a baby chewing on a PC board and
get a whole shitload of money and influence together and lobby
Congress to enact similar laws as the EU has. Then we'll be shaving
the whiskers off our boards too. Lenny
I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in
electronic devices is compared to the lead that used to be in paint
and gasoline? In the July 28th issue of Science News there is an
article about California Condors ingesting lead from animals killed by
being shot with lead bullets or shot. According to the article the
condors are being poisoned by the lead and it has such a deleterious
effect on the condors that without human care the condors would die
out. Their population is not self sustaining without human
intervention because of the lead. And there is plenty of evidence that
lead in gasoline and lead bearing paint has caused neurogical damage,
among other health problems, in children. Banning leaded gasoline and
lead bearing paint has shown a marked decrease in neurological
deficits in children typically exposed to lead in the past. Even so,
how much of a problem is lead in electronic devices? Would we be
better off with some type of legislation that requires electronic
devices to be accepted by retailers for recycling? Maybe by putting a
deposit on electronic devices that is refunded when the device is
replaced?
Eric
Click to expand...
It hinges on what you mean by "recycling"
Fashions and technology-advance mean zero recycling of components.
Substantial single-type metalwork is separated and recycled , the rest is
sent exceedingly cheaply in otherwise empty conntainers to Asia where it is
burnt and residual metal extracted from the cremulators.

Gizard anatomy birds like swans , have much improved health since the
banning of lead fishing weights in the UK. Birds shot with lead or
lead-substitute are still dead , so no health improvement there.
 
<snip>

I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in
electronic devices is compared to the lead that used to be in paint
and gasoline? In the July 28th issue of Science News there is an
article about California Condors ingesting lead from animals killed by
being shot with lead bullets or shot. According to the article the
condors are being poisoned by the lead and it has such a deleterious
effect on the condors that without human care the condors would die
out. Their population is not self sustaining without human
intervention because of the lead. And there is plenty of evidence that
lead in gasoline and lead bearing paint has caused neurogical damage,
among other health problems, in children. Banning leaded gasoline and
lead bearing paint has shown a marked decrease in neurological
deficits in children typically exposed to lead in the past. Even so,
how much of a problem is lead in electronic devices? Would we be
better off with some type of legislation that requires electronic
devices to be accepted by retailers for recycling? Maybe by putting a
deposit on electronic devices that is refunded when the device is
replaced?
Eric
Click to expand...
Removal of lead from gasoline and paint, were valid exercises, as the lead
from the gasoline fumes was easily ingested, and the lead from paint could
find its way into the environment in an ingestible form, reasonably easily.
However, solder appears to have gotten itself hitched to these campaigns,
merely by association. It was, as far as I can tell, another example of
hysteria that surrounds the eco-bollox movement, and any perceived
detrimental effects of lead being in solder, have been hugely exaggerated,
and are largely without foundation.

Tin and lead is a stable compound, and the lead does not wash out of it in
water. Pure lead is not soluble in water. There was talk of it being a huge
problem with electronic items in landfill, having the lead 'leeched out' of
the solder by ground water, but there seems to be little evidence that this
ever did, or could occur, without the rain being extremely acidic, and that
situation hasn't existed for years since industrial airborne pollutants were
legislated against in most of the civilised world.

For some years now, EU countries have had the Waste Electrical and
Electronic Equipment (WEEE) directive in place, and this ensures that all
electronic equipment is 'recycled' in some form. As Nigel says in his posted
reply, this does not actually ensure that much in the way of 'true'
recycling is done, but as all of the equipment now *has* to find its way
back into the system, paid for by the manufacturer as a levy on his sales,
then it *could* be. It would not be that hard to re-extract the lead, if
possibly a little more costly.

Everyone at the sharp end knows, in truth, that lead-free solder is pretty
useless stuff. Like eco-bollox lightbulbs, it's not a replacement
technology, it's a substitute one. It has caused both the electronic
manufacturing and repair industries huge problems in the requirement to
change equipment and processes, and in increased energy useage, And for what
? To address a 'problem' that wasn't there in the first place. Aside from
the manufacturing and service problems it has caused, I would contend that
it has almost certainly resulted in a far larger quantity of consumer
electronic equipment being life-ended earlier than would have previously
been the case, due to bad joint-related failures that are not worth getting
repaired, because it's cheaper to just buy a replacement piece of Chinese
junk from the nearest shed or supermarket. This has the knock-on effect of
being hugely wasteful of resources and energy, which is a far greater
overall problem to the well-being of fauna on this planet, than lead in
solder ever was ...

You might want to consider why in any areas where equipment is likely to be
used to preserve human life - e.g. avionics, medical, military - such
equipment is exempt from the lead-free solder manufacturing requirement,
that non-critical equipment has to abide by.

Arfa
 
<etpm@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:um79181a57a4aqblu4bj82ps18mcj9kvpq@4ax.com...
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:27:50 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jul 16, 9:21 am, "N_Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
Arfa Daily <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:2tTMr.934634$ME5.383908@fx22.am4...









God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two
weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these
lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode
shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the
device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I
guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was
reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc
'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and
on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected,
it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that
you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.
Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first
place
...

Arfa

So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove
their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your
wire
fudge bridge after placement.

I was given a small battery powered soldering iron a few years ago as
a gift. It came with a small coil of solder. In the beginning I'd take
it on small jobs with me and I noticed that I could never do a good
soldering job with the thing. Now I've been soldering for over 50
years so I figured it couldn't have been me. The solder wouldn't flow,
it would blob etc. Finally one morning while on the throne having
nothing better to read, I read trough the instructions for the
miserable thing. It seems like the manufacturer had seen fit to
package these things with lead free solder. As soon as I got rid of
the worthless stuff the iron was fine. Thankfully we don't have to
deal with that bullshit here in the US yet but it is getting difficult
to find 60/40 in surplus. I'm certain that one day some misinformed
idiot over here is going to picture a baby chewing on a PC board and
get a whole shitload of money and influence together and lobby
Congress to enact similar laws as the EU has. Then we'll be shaving
the whiskers off our boards too. Lenny
I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in
electronic devices is compared to the lead that used to be in paint
and gasoline?
Click to expand...
I don't remember off hand the figures for petrochem industry for annual lead
procurement, but it was truly staggering!!!

Many thousands of tons of lead converted to tetra-ethyl-lead and added to
petrol and ultimately dispersed into the atmosphere as particulates.

Lead-solder is a relatively stable alloy (except at extremes of temperature)
that is ultimately safer than the raw lead & its ores/oxides mined out of
the ground in the first place.

The brussels suits truly are the ultimate in dumbass fuckwits!!!
 
Ian Field wrote:
The brussels suits truly are the ultimate in dumbass fuckwits!!!
Click to expand...

They should have been put in charge of the Olymics.
 
In article <um79181a57a4aqblu4bj82ps18mcj9kvpq@4ax.com>,
<etpm@whidbey.com> wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:27:50 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:
....
Thankfully we don't have to
deal with that bullshit here in the US yet but it is getting difficult
to find 60/40 in surplus. I'm certain that one day some misinformed
idiot over here is going to picture a baby chewing on a PC board and
get a whole shitload of money and influence together and lobby
Congress to enact similar laws as the EU has. Then we'll be shaving
the whiskers off our boards too. Lenny

I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in
electronic devices is compared to the lead that used to be in paint
and gasoline?
....
Click to expand...
Banning leaded gasoline and
lead bearing paint has shown a marked decrease in neurological
deficits in children typically exposed to lead in the past. Even so,
how much of a problem is lead in electronic devices? Would we be
better off with some type of legislation that requires electronic
devices to be accepted by retailers for recycling? Maybe by putting a
deposit on electronic devices that is refunded when the device is
replaced?
Click to expand...
Back about 20 years ago, I was a regular reader of Forbes, Fortune,
Business Week. There was a battle going on, at least in their pages,
between recycling and the garbage incinerators. (Incinerators are a
much bigger thing in Europe and Japan than in the US).

The companies that built the garbage burners, and the companies that use
these burners to generate electric power are some of the main movers for
"getting the lead out". Before the days of recycling industry and its
high tech garbage sorting, that was seen as the cheaper way to reduce
their air pollution problem. And they had the money to lobby (or buy off)
the bureaucrats.

So after a couple of decades, it's been institutionalized in the EU
bureaucracy, and picked up by the greens, too. So it will probably
live on, even if a better recycling scheme would make lead free
electronics unnecessary.

Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
 
On Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:30:06 AM UTC-7, Arfa Daily wrote:
snip



I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in

electronic devices is ...

Tin and lead is a stable compound, and the lead does not wash out of it in

water. Pure lead is not soluble in water.
Click to expand...
Not in pure water, maybe, but organic acids (acetic acid) attack lead
and you can't have decomposition of organics in contact with lead in a landfill,
without some leaching.
 
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