Posting suggestions

[Leonard Caillouet]

The point is, Mike, that if you want help, it only makes sense to post
meaningful and useful information that might help you get it. Most of us
that have the information that people are coming here to get on specific
repairs are in business and don't have time to spend trying to figure out
what YOU have. I spend a great deal of time helping other techs and
consumers online. I get a lot of help from other techs myself, rarely from
consumers. On the technical forums where only real techs are found, putting
the model and symptom in the subject line is pretty standard for obvious
reasons. Asking for relevant information is completely reasonable, and it
has nothing to do with semantics, just good sense.

Leonard Caillouet



"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqmhajbsag3552@corp.supernews.com...

This whole discussion is stupid, you're arguing over semantics. I just
started using new groups and I thought that the whole idea was to share
knowledge with others, not stupid sarcastic comments (replying to one of
my
posts) telling me that "we can't read your mind" and the person knows who
he
is!!! well excusing the hell of me for asking for help, with a subject
that
I'm not familiar with!!! I've worked in the computer industry for 10
years,
4+ years in Commercial Technical Support and have always treated people
that
have less technical skill as equals. Don't forget that the person that you
help today, can help you with something tomorrow. Maybe you could politely
ask, the person in question, to look at a posting that outlines a formula
(SUBJECT LINE, grammatically correct language ETC) that will help them in
the long run. For myself I know that I haven't explained my recent problem
with my amp as well as I could, but try to remember that I was trying to
figure out what the heck was wrong with it at the same time. I know for
sure, that if I started a news group for computer tech support, I wouldn't
be posting this anal retentive message!





"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:Axcpb.9521$Re.995@lakeread06...
Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine FAQ that
Sam
publishes that makes suggestions for what to do when asking for
assistance
on the group. It should be right up front and include:

1) Include the model, chassis, year, type of product, and symptom in
the
SUBJECT LINE.

2) Include as much diagnostic information as you have in clear concise,
grammatically correct language.

3) Include a description of your technical ability and experience level
with the product.

4) etc.

Anyone else have some suggestions. How about it Sam?

Leonard Caillouet

 

[Sofie]

Leonard:
Come on now, I know that you have a crystal ball so you don't need to be
informed of all of those boorish details like model number, chassis number,
results of initial technical troubleshooting, test meter readings, component
testing results, visual observations, etc, etc.
Why would anyone asking for repair suggestions want to spend (waste) their
time searching through the repairfaqs on http://www.repairfaq.org/ or waste
their time posting the boorish details outlined above or perform any testing
or troubleshooting when they instead can just immediately post their
question to the newsgroup fully expecting a specific answer that will direct
them to the exact faulty part they need to replace-- ..... no test equipment
needed, no electronics knowledge required, no repair experience necessary,
none of the proper tools and skill to use them, etc.... just fix it....NOW
!
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
------------------

 

[Leonard G. Caillouet]

Careful, Dan, the internet may be making you a smart-ass...hmm...after
thinking about it, its probably the repair business and customers in
general. Has anyone come in yet today with a set with a broken power switch
or bad picture tube? I got my daily call already from a customer who was
sure that she had a bad tube because it had that annoying horizontal white
line instead of a picture sometimes. I am waiting for the one that has a
bad power switch becaue it won't turn on. I sometimes have to try really
hard to remain professional when responding to these clairvoyant consumers
who know what is wrong before they call.

Leonard Caillouet

"Sofie" <sofie@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:vqnfpbl03a3tf4@corp.supernews.com...

Leonard:
Come on now, I know that you have a crystal ball so you don't need to be
informed of all of those boorish details like model number, chassis
number,
results of initial technical troubleshooting, test meter readings,
component
testing results, visual observations, etc, etc.
Why would anyone asking for repair suggestions want to spend (waste) their
time searching through the repairfaqs on http://www.repairfaq.org/ or
waste
their time posting the boorish details outlined above or perform any
testing
or troubleshooting when they instead can just immediately post their
question to the newsgroup fully expecting a specific answer that will
direct
them to the exact faulty part they need to replace-- ..... no test
equipment
needed, no electronics knowledge required, no repair experience necessary,
none of the proper tools and skill to use them, etc.... just fix
it....NOW
!
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
------------------

 

[Sofie]

Leonard:
My first phone call today was "how much will you charge me to fix my
VCR?..... I don't want to waste my time unhooking it and bringing it in if
will cost too much to fix"
This week I did get the phone call about the picture tube and also I did
have a customer bring in a TV with a bad power switch..... Leonard, are
you referring your "customers" to me?
Last year I had one guy that was very adamant about the broken power switch
thing ..... his TV would not turn on and he was certain that all that was
wrong was the power switch and wanted to know EXACTLY how much it would cost
for me to replace it.... so after an exchange of comments back and forth,
he clearly thought that I was wrong about the possibility of there being
more wrong with his TV than just the power switch .... (I pointed out that
the remote control didn't turn it on either... but he didn't come to the
obvious conclusion) he obviously was running out of patience and finally
(rather tersely) told me to just replace the switch.... that is all he
wanted me to do. So I quoted him a fair price, charged him up-front for
the requested service and had him return a few hours later. He came back to
the shop later in the day and asked if his TV is now working ..... I told
him that I didn't try it and "all I did was replace the switch as he
instructed" so before he left the shop he plugged it in and was absolutely
flabbergasted that his TV didn't work... and then he asked me to take out
the new switch and put back the "old" switch and give him his money
back...... I almost laughed as I helped him out the door with his broken
TV..... I did however give him a rough estimate for the complete repair
of his television that included replacing the shorted HOT and the faulty VR
Chip along with a handful of other minor parts but he did not want to pay
more than $35 to fix his television and was sure that I was not telling him
the facts so he left with his broken television with a new power switch
installed. I figured that for the price he paid me to replace the switch I
might as well give him a repair cost estimate at no additional cost.
--
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
----------------------

"Leonard G. Caillouet" <lcaillo_ns_@devoynet.com> wrote in message

Has anyone come in yet today with a set with a broken power switch
or bad picture tube? I got my daily call already from a customer who was
sure that she had a bad tube because it had that annoying horizontal white
line instead of a picture sometimes. I am waiting for the one that has a
bad power switch becaue it won't turn on. I sometimes have to try really
hard to remain professional when responding to these clairvoyant consumers
who know what is wrong before they call.
Leonard Caillouet

 

[Mike Wilson]

Leonard I was agreeing with what you were saying. Look at my post again. I
suggested that, the person in question, follow some sort of template. Again,
you could politely ask the person in question to look at a post that
outlines a certain criteria, instead throwing around sarcastic comments, and
that would be YOU! (the gloves are off now!!!!)



At work I have to follow a template when dealing with CR (Customer
Relations) issues. When the template is completed it is e-mailed to a person
that reviews the problem. This person was ridiculous, arguing over spelling
mistakes. This person was soon fired because he had his head so far up his
ass that he forgot what his job was. This is what I don't want to happen
here.



For people that are new to newsgroups, WE make mistakes and don't need
sarcastic morons telling us the ins and outs of it all, WE will learn, so be
patient. I was hoping that I could contribute to the forum, I guess not. Too
bad because there lots of wonderful people here, and I appreciate all of
their help. I wanted to start my own form for computer tech stuff, hardware
and software problems, where my speciality is operating systems.

So, apparently I'm not a real computer tech, your words exactly: "On the
technical forums where only real techs are found." I am a REAL computer
tech Leonard or did you make a mistake? Maybe you should have been more
specific: On the technical forums where only real electronic techs are
found." Either way I knew what you meant, and I didn't need a template, or
have to be psychic to figure it out.



I want to feel comfortable asking for help, and not feel like I'm going to
be badgered because I don't have x amount of years working in this field. I
came here for help and to learn, not bullshit. If you want to impose some
rules and guidelines, that's ok, just do it with some class.



Michael J. Wilson

MCSE, CNE, A+





"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:1AMqb.4948$0d2.4368@lakeread06...

The point is, Mike, that if you want help, it only makes sense to post
meaningful and useful information that might help you get it. Most of us
that have the information that people are coming here to get on specific
repairs are in business and don't have time to spend trying to figure out
what YOU have. I spend a great deal of time helping other techs and
consumers online. I get a lot of help from other techs myself, rarely
from
consumers. On the technical forums where only real techs are found,
putting
the model and symptom in the subject line is pretty standard for obvious
reasons. Asking for relevant information is completely reasonable, and it
has nothing to do with semantics, just good sense.

Leonard Caillouet



"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqmhajbsag3552@corp.supernews.com...
This whole discussion is stupid, you're arguing over semantics. I just
started using new groups and I thought that the whole idea was to share
knowledge with others, not stupid sarcastic comments (replying to one of
my
posts) telling me that "we can't read your mind" and the person knows
who
he
is!!! well excusing the hell of me for asking for help, with a subject
that
I'm not familiar with!!! I've worked in the computer industry for 10
years,
4+ years in Commercial Technical Support and have always treated people
that
have less technical skill as equals. Don't forget that the person that
you
help today, can help you with something tomorrow. Maybe you could
politely
ask, the person in question, to look at a posting that outlines a
formula
(SUBJECT LINE, grammatically correct language ETC) that will help them
in
the long run. For myself I know that I haven't explained my recent
problem
with my amp as well as I could, but try to remember that I was trying to
figure out what the heck was wrong with it at the same time. I know for
sure, that if I started a news group for computer tech support, I
wouldn't
be posting this anal retentive message!





"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:Axcpb.9521$Re.995@lakeread06...
Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine FAQ that
Sam
publishes that makes suggestions for what to do when asking for
assistance
on the group. It should be right up front and include:

1) Include the model, chassis, year, type of product, and symptom in
the
SUBJECT LINE.

2) Include as much diagnostic information as you have in clear
concise,
grammatically correct language.

3) Include a description of your technical ability and experience
level
with the product.

4) etc.

Anyone else have some suggestions. How about it Sam?

Leonard Caillouet

 

[Leonard G. Caillouet]

I'm not going to argue and not looking for a fight. My point is made. My
record of helping people on newsgroups speaks for itself. Your post with
the opening line "This whole discussion is stupid, you're arguing over
semantics." was not clear if you were intending to agree.

Leonard Caillouet

"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqnl4h6me6hj64@corp.supernews.com...

Leonard I was agreeing with what you were saying. Look at my post again. I
suggested that, the person in question, follow some sort of template.
Again,
you could politely ask the person in question to look at a post that
outlines a certain criteria, instead throwing around sarcastic comments,
and
that would be YOU! (the gloves are off now!!!!)



At work I have to follow a template when dealing with CR (Customer
Relations) issues. When the template is completed it is e-mailed to a
person
that reviews the problem. This person was ridiculous, arguing over
spelling
mistakes. This person was soon fired because he had his head so far up his
ass that he forgot what his job was. This is what I don't want to happen
here.



For people that are new to newsgroups, WE make mistakes and don't need
sarcastic morons telling us the ins and outs of it all, WE will learn, so
be
patient. I was hoping that I could contribute to the forum, I guess not.
Too
bad because there lots of wonderful people here, and I appreciate all of
their help. I wanted to start my own form for computer tech stuff,
hardware
and software problems, where my speciality is operating systems.

So, apparently I'm not a real computer tech, your words exactly: "On the
technical forums where only real techs are found." I am a REAL computer
tech Leonard or did you make a mistake? Maybe you should have been more
specific: On the technical forums where only real electronic techs are
found." Either way I knew what you meant, and I didn't need a template, or
have to be psychic to figure it out.



I want to feel comfortable asking for help, and not feel like I'm going to
be badgered because I don't have x amount of years working in this field.
I
came here for help and to learn, not bullshit. If you want to impose some
rules and guidelines, that's ok, just do it with some class.



Michael J. Wilson

MCSE, CNE, A+





"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:1AMqb.4948$0d2.4368@lakeread06...
The point is, Mike, that if you want help, it only makes sense to post
meaningful and useful information that might help you get it. Most of
us
that have the information that people are coming here to get on specific
repairs are in business and don't have time to spend trying to figure
out
what YOU have. I spend a great deal of time helping other techs and
consumers online. I get a lot of help from other techs myself, rarely
from
consumers. On the technical forums where only real techs are found,
putting
the model and symptom in the subject line is pretty standard for obvious
reasons. Asking for relevant information is completely reasonable, and
it
has nothing to do with semantics, just good sense.

Leonard Caillouet



"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqmhajbsag3552@corp.supernews.com...
This whole discussion is stupid, you're arguing over semantics. I just
started using new groups and I thought that the whole idea was to
share
knowledge with others, not stupid sarcastic comments (replying to one
of
my
posts) telling me that "we can't read your mind" and the person knows
who
he
is!!! well excusing the hell of me for asking for help, with a
subject
that
I'm not familiar with!!! I've worked in the computer industry for 10
years,
4+ years in Commercial Technical Support and have always treated
people
that
have less technical skill as equals. Don't forget that the person that
you
help today, can help you with something tomorrow. Maybe you could
politely
ask, the person in question, to look at a posting that outlines a
formula
(SUBJECT LINE, grammatically correct language ETC) that will help them
in
the long run. For myself I know that I haven't explained my recent
problem
with my amp as well as I could, but try to remember that I was trying
to
figure out what the heck was wrong with it at the same time. I know
for
sure, that if I started a news group for computer tech support, I
wouldn't
be posting this anal retentive message!





"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:Axcpb.9521$Re.995@lakeread06...
Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine FAQ
that
Sam
publishes that makes suggestions for what to do when asking for
assistance
on the group. It should be right up front and include:

1) Include the model, chassis, year, type of product, and symptom
in
the
SUBJECT LINE.

2) Include as much diagnostic information as you have in clear
concise,
grammatically correct language.

3) Include a description of your technical ability and experience
level
with the product.

4) etc.

Anyone else have some suggestions. How about it Sam?

Leonard Caillouet

 

[Mike Wilson]

Do you need help with the English Language Leonard?
Can someone not have more than one opinion in a message? If not, then I
think that you are obtuse.
The argument over which way to post a message should be left to, the person
in question. I agree with Daniel Sofie:
"Frankly, if you have something important to say, and it is technically
coherent and relevant, then I will read it no matter how you post it....top,
bottom, or in between....... But your last post is a complete and utter
waste of bytes and of my time..... Get off my case or go
away......preferable both"
The way in which you tell people to include technical data is what I really
disagree with (sarcastic comments), but the whole idea of a template is a
good idea just as long as you communicate to the individual, in the proper
manner. Now, have I spelled it out good enough for you?
I don't want a fight either, however when you treat me with less respect
than a working professional, (like yourself)
of course I'm going to get a little offended. You posted this original
message ("Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine
FAQ") just after your INSULTING comment was made to me, "we are not
psychic, we don't know what you have." So in turn, I thought it was directed
towards me. I've been down this road before (as I mentioned before) and I
know how the basic communication can get lost is a discussion.
Maybe it was a logical assumption that I didn't have to include the model
number of the amp. I'm new here, I didn't know that I had to include every
piece of info, is that far to say? If so, who gives you the right to nasty
with me? Hey you want to talk computer tech stuff, hardware and software
support, I'll make you look pretty dumb in no time. So think about that
before you loose it with someone that is reaching out for
help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Leonard G. Caillouet" <lcaillo_ns_@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:boRqb.47432$SV2.25461@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

I'm not going to argue and not looking for a fight. My point is made. My
record of helping people on newsgroups speaks for itself. Your post with
the opening line "This whole discussion is stupid, you're arguing over
semantics." was not clear if you were intending to agree.

Leonard Caillouet

"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqnl4h6me6hj64@corp.supernews.com...
Leonard I was agreeing with what you were saying. Look at my post again.
I
suggested that, the person in question, follow some sort of template.
Again,
you could politely ask the person in question to look at a post that
outlines a certain criteria, instead throwing around sarcastic comments,
and
that would be YOU! (the gloves are off now!!!!)

At work I have to follow a template when dealing with CR (Customer
Relations) issues. When the template is completed it is e-mailed to a
person
that reviews the problem. This person was ridiculous, arguing over
spelling
mistakes. This person was soon fired because he had his head so far up
his
ass that he forgot what his job was. This is what I don't want to happen
here.

For people that are new to newsgroups, WE make mistakes and don't need
sarcastic morons telling us the ins and outs of it all, WE will learn,
so
be
patient. I was hoping that I could contribute to the forum, I guess not.
Too
bad because there lots of wonderful people here, and I appreciate all of
their help. I wanted to start my own form for computer tech stuff,
hardware
and software problems, where my speciality is operating systems.

So, apparently I'm not a real computer tech, your words exactly: "On
the
technical forums where only real techs are found." I am a REAL computer
tech Leonard or did you make a mistake? Maybe you should have been more
specific: On the technical forums where only real electronic techs are
found." Either way I knew what you meant, and I didn't need a template,
or
have to be psychic to figure it out.

I want to feel comfortable asking for help, and not feel like I'm going
to
be badgered because I don't have x amount of years working in this
field.
I
came here for help and to learn, not bullshit. If you want to impose
some
rules and guidelines, that's ok, just do it with some class.



Michael J. Wilson

MCSE, CNE, A+





"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:1AMqb.4948$0d2.4368@lakeread06...
The point is, Mike, that if you want help, it only makes sense to post
meaningful and useful information that might help you get it. Most of
us
that have the information that people are coming here to get on
specific
repairs are in business and don't have time to spend trying to figure
out
what YOU have. I spend a great deal of time helping other techs and
consumers online. I get a lot of help from other techs myself, rarely
from
consumers. On the technical forums where only real techs are found,
putting
the model and symptom in the subject line is pretty standard for
obvious
reasons. Asking for relevant information is completely reasonable,
and
it
has nothing to do with semantics, just good sense.

Leonard Caillouet



"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqmhajbsag3552@corp.supernews.com...
This whole discussion is stupid, you're arguing over semantics. I
just
started using new groups and I thought that the whole idea was to
share
knowledge with others, not stupid sarcastic comments (replying to
one
of
my
posts) telling me that "we can't read your mind" and the person
knows
who
he
is!!! well excusing the hell of me for asking for help, with a
subject
that
I'm not familiar with!!! I've worked in the computer industry for 10
years,
4+ years in Commercial Technical Support and have always treated
people
that
have less technical skill as equals. Don't forget that the person
that
you
help today, can help you with something tomorrow. Maybe you could
politely
ask, the person in question, to look at a posting that outlines a
formula
(SUBJECT LINE, grammatically correct language ETC) that will help
them
in
the long run. For myself I know that I haven't explained my recent
problem
with my amp as well as I could, but try to remember that I was
trying
to
figure out what the heck was wrong with it at the same time. I know
for
sure, that if I started a news group for computer tech support, I
wouldn't
be posting this anal retentive message!





"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:Axcpb.9521$Re.995@lakeread06...
Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine FAQ
that
Sam
publishes that makes suggestions for what to do when asking for
assistance
on the group. It should be right up front and include:

1) Include the model, chassis, year, type of product, and symptom
in
the
SUBJECT LINE.

2) Include as much diagnostic information as you have in clear
concise,
grammatically correct language.

3) Include a description of your technical ability and experience
level
with the product.

4) etc.

Anyone else have some suggestions. How about it Sam?

Leonard Caillouet

 

[Franc Zabkar]

A: Jeopardy.
Q: Which is the most annoying quiz show ever devised?

Don't flame me, it's only a joke.


On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:20:29 -0800, "Sofie" <sofie@olypen.com> put
finger to keyboard and composed:

Frank Zabkar:
It looks to me that if you would have top posted instead of inserting your
reply post in between the preceding posts that the chronological order would
have been preserved in descending order from top to bottom, the most recent
reply at the top, the oldest at the bottom.

The whole point is that I favour a certain posting style, while others
are happier with a different style. Some would call this freedom of
expression, others would see it as anarchy. One of the good things and
bad things about the Internet is that nobody controls it. Hence there
are no enforcible conventions, only "netiquette". I really don't care
how people post, only that they do so in a lucid, considerate,
intelligent way.

For a long string of posts a
reader does not need to scroll clear to the bottom unless historical
information is required in the preceding postings.

If you are expressing a single thought, then top posting presents only
a minor problem. But when your post consists of several parts, then
the best response, IMO, requires inline posting, which gets to be very
complicated in this case.

I could argue that top
posting is a better convention than the defacto standard of bottom
posting..... but it appears that all forms of posting styles will continue
to be the norm...... all of this can certainly be tolerated as long as the
information is useful, the language and spelling are halfway correct and the
zealots that thumb their nose at these minor points don't get carried away
with their quest to snuff out non-conformity.

I agree totally, although I do understand the benefit of universal
standards. Have we all forgotten the damaging VHS/Beta war, or x2
versus k56flex, or the current DVD format wars?

As for non-conformity, I'm no stranger to this at all. In fact, one of
my biggest complaints with our education system is that it attempted
to force me, a lateral thinker, to think in a certain way. For
example, I found it annoying that my Computer Science lecturer would
punish us for deviating from a requisite programming style. I also
failed a certain engineering course when I screwed up my assignment
paper in front of my tutor and didn't return for the remainder of the
year. He had marked me down for answering a particular question in 5
mins, using insight, whereas the remainder of the class spent 30 mins
regurgitating lecture material, ... and produced an answer less
accurate than my own. Of course, my protest was pointless as I had to
repeat the course the following year :-(

BTW, did you notice that my newsreader has truncated your post? That's
because it conforms to the Usenet dash-dash-space convention in your
sig line. This is another problem caused by top posting.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:10:09 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
<wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> put finger to keyboard and composed:

This whole discussion is stupid, you're arguing over semantics. I just
started using new groups and I thought that the whole idea was to share
knowledge with others, not stupid sarcastic comments (replying to one of my
posts) telling me that "we can't read your mind" and the person knows who he
is!!!

I don't think anyone has been rude to you in this NG. In fact this
group too often receives postings from people like yourself with
rudimentary qualifications who provide little, if any, pertinent
detail. Hence the suggested addition to our FAQ.

well excusing the hell of me for asking for help, with a subject that
I'm not familiar with!!!

Help us to help you. Just give us some relevant detail, eg brand,
model, circuit reference.

I've worked in the computer industry for 10 years,
4+ years in Commercial Technical Support and have always treated people that
have less technical skill as equals. Don't forget that the person that you
help today, can help you with something tomorrow. Maybe you could politely
ask, the person in question, to look at a posting that outlines a formula
(SUBJECT LINE, grammatically correct language ETC) that will help them in
the long run.

Wasn't that the OP's point?

For myself I know that I haven't explained my recent problem
with my amp as well as I could, but try to remember that I was trying to
figure out what the heck was wrong with it at the same time. I know for
sure, that if I started a news group for computer tech support, I wouldn't
be posting this anal retentive message!

I find the OP's suggestion to be potentially helpful to all. Now if
only people would read the FAQ before posting ...

"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:Axcpb.9521$Re.995@lakeread06...
Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine FAQ that Sam
publishes that makes suggestions for what to do when asking for assistance
on the group. It should be right up front and include:

1) Include the model, chassis, year, type of product, and symptom in the
SUBJECT LINE.

2) Include as much diagnostic information as you have in clear concise,
grammatically correct language.

3) Include a description of your technical ability and experience level
with the product.

4) etc.

Anyone else have some suggestions. How about it Sam?

Leonard Caillouet

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Mike Wilson]

Franc I did supply relevant details when it was requested. As I explained
before, I'm not perfect, and just learning what info the techs here want
when I ask for help. If 4 techs tried to help when I didn't note the model
number of my amp, then I'm inclined to think that I am asking for help in
the proper way...then if one tech thinks that he cannot help me with my
problem unless he has the model number of the amp, that's ok, except when I
feel that I'm being belittled. I have no problem supplying the info at all,
it's going to help me in the long run, well dauh!!!!!! But if someone leaves
out some info that you need to help that person, ask politely, no need to be
rude, just because you know more about repairing electronics than me
doesn't give you the right to talk to me any less then a equal.
As far as not being quailifed, what's the point of the forum then? Maybe you
should ban all people that don't work in your field!

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4qunqvs9lhhuragi58ilghn22np7hu6l3h@4ax.com...

On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:10:09 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> put finger to keyboard and composed:

This whole discussion is stupid, you're arguing over semantics. I just
started using new groups and I thought that the whole idea was to share
knowledge with others, not stupid sarcastic comments (replying to one of
my
posts) telling me that "we can't read your mind" and the person knows who
he
is!!!

I don't think anyone has been rude to you in this NG. In fact this
group too often receives postings from people like yourself with
rudimentary qualifications who provide little, if any, pertinent
detail. Hence the suggested addition to our FAQ.

well excusing the hell of me for asking for help, with a subject that
I'm not familiar with!!!

Help us to help you. Just give us some relevant detail, eg brand,
model, circuit reference.

I've worked in the computer industry for 10 years,
4+ years in Commercial Technical Support and have always treated people
that
have less technical skill as equals. Don't forget that the person that
you
help today, can help you with something tomorrow. Maybe you could
politely
ask, the person in question, to look at a posting that outlines a formula
(SUBJECT LINE, grammatically correct language ETC) that will help them in
the long run.

Wasn't that the OP's point?

For myself I know that I haven't explained my recent problem
with my amp as well as I could, but try to remember that I was trying to
figure out what the heck was wrong with it at the same time. I know for
sure, that if I started a news group for computer tech support, I
wouldn't
be posting this anal retentive message!

I find the OP's suggestion to be potentially helpful to all. Now if
only people would read the FAQ before posting ...

"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:Axcpb.9521$Re.995@lakeread06...
Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine FAQ that
Sam
publishes that makes suggestions for what to do when asking for
assistance
on the group. It should be right up front and include:

1) Include the model, chassis, year, type of product, and symptom in
the
SUBJECT LINE.

2) Include as much diagnostic information as you have in clear concise,
grammatically correct language.

3) Include a description of your technical ability and experience
level
with the product.

4) etc.

Anyone else have some suggestions. How about it Sam?

Leonard Caillouet


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Leonard Caillouet]

"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqnsc7b81gf01c@corp.supernews.com...

Do you need help with the English Language Leonard?

No.

Can someone not have more than one opinion in a message?

I never said that one could not.

If not, then I think that you are obtuse.

Read the posts that you have made recently, then read mine. Who is obtuse?

The argument over which way to post a message should be left to, the
person
in question. I agree with Daniel Sofie:
"Frankly, if you have something important to say, and it is technically
coherent and relevant, then I will read it no matter how you post
it....top,
bottom, or in between....... But your last post is a complete and utter
waste of bytes and of my time..... Get off my case or go
away......preferable both"

I completely agree with Dan, in fact, I believe that Dan was agreeing with
me. If my post is a waste...don't bother to reply.

The way in which you tell people to include technical data is what I
really
disagree with (sarcastic comments), but the whole idea of a template is a
good idea just as long as you communicate to the individual, in the proper
manner. Now, have I spelled it out good enough for you?

Glad we agree. I am rarely sarcastic, but sometimes it does seem
appropriate. Perhaps, now? Get over it Mikey.

I don't want a fight either, however when you treat me with less respect
than a working professional, (like yourself)
of course I'm going to get a little offended. You posted this original
message ("Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine
FAQ") just after your INSULTING comment was made to me, "we are not
psychic, we don't know what you have." So in turn, I thought it was
directed
towards me.

There is no fight. That post was directed to everyone as a request for
ideas for how to handle a constant frustration. People want the help of
professionals without even the most basic information all the time. We
still try to help. If you recall, I tried to help you, didn't I? BTW, that
post with the confusing description of which cap that had been changed may
have been considered a bit, what, obtuse?

I've been down this road before (as I mentioned before) and I
know how the basic communication can get lost is a discussion.
Maybe it was a logical assumption that I didn't have to include the model
number of the amp. I'm new here, I didn't know that I had to include every

You don't, but you will get better help if you do.

piece of info, is that far to say? If so, who gives you the right to nasty
with me?

What gives you the right to ask for help. The same thing that gives me the
right to be an ass if I choose to be. The same thing that gives you the
right to be obtuse, confusing, or just thin-skinned. Lighten up.

Hey you want to talk computer tech stuff, hardware and software
support, I'll make you look pretty dumb in no time.

Don't bet on that.

So think about that before you loose it with someone that is reaching out
for
help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm really intimidated. Give me a break. This is usenet. If you want to
be here you need to be prepared to take a suggestion and a lot more abuse
than you got from me. Remember I DID try to help you. Oh, well, I guess
the time spent trying to figure evaluate your problem from the minimal (and
incorrect, BTW) information, and the time spent replying, and the time spent
looking through a pile of obsolete Kenwood manuals to see if I had the right
one, and the time spent posting the information to call ECT for your manual,
and so forth does not matter. It is more significant to you that I was a
bit sarcastic in a reply. Enough. My points have been made and my record
of how I treat people on newsgroups is one that I am proud of. If you feel
otherwise you are entitled to your opinion and you can have the last word on
the matter if you choose.

If you need help on any other matter I will be glad to offer it if I can.

Leonard Caillouet, BS, MS, PAASB (pedantic asshole and sarcastic bastard)

 

[Bruce]

I dont care whos right or wrong, at the end of the day we ask questions to
gain knowledge, we help our fellow man and thats a good thing ( the story on
the power switch did tickle me !!). A dumb question is one that is NOT asked
!!

rgds

"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqo91a1hqaadd4@corp.supernews.com...

Franc I did supply relevant details when it was requested. As I explained
before, I'm not perfect, and just learning what info the techs here want
when I ask for help. If 4 techs tried to help when I didn't note the model
number of my amp, then I'm inclined to think that I am asking for help in
the proper way...then if one tech thinks that he cannot help me with my
problem unless he has the model number of the amp, that's ok, except when
I
feel that I'm being belittled. I have no problem supplying the info at
all,
it's going to help me in the long run, well dauh!!!!!! But if someone
leaves
out some info that you need to help that person, ask politely, no need to
be
rude, just because you know more about repairing electronics than me
doesn't give you the right to talk to me any less then a equal.
As far as not being quailifed, what's the point of the forum then? Maybe
you
should ban all people that don't work in your field!

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4qunqvs9lhhuragi58ilghn22np7hu6l3h@4ax.com...
On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:10:09 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> put finger to keyboard and composed:

This whole discussion is stupid, you're arguing over semantics. I just
started using new groups and I thought that the whole idea was to share
knowledge with others, not stupid sarcastic comments (replying to one
of
my
posts) telling me that "we can't read your mind" and the person knows
who
he
is!!!

I don't think anyone has been rude to you in this NG. In fact this
group too often receives postings from people like yourself with
rudimentary qualifications who provide little, if any, pertinent
detail. Hence the suggested addition to our FAQ.

well excusing the hell of me for asking for help, with a subject that
I'm not familiar with!!!

Help us to help you. Just give us some relevant detail, eg brand,
model, circuit reference.

I've worked in the computer industry for 10 years,
4+ years in Commercial Technical Support and have always treated people
that
have less technical skill as equals. Don't forget that the person that
you
help today, can help you with something tomorrow. Maybe you could
politely
ask, the person in question, to look at a posting that outlines a
formula
(SUBJECT LINE, grammatically correct language ETC) that will help them
in
the long run.

Wasn't that the OP's point?

For myself I know that I haven't explained my recent problem
with my amp as well as I could, but try to remember that I was trying
to
figure out what the heck was wrong with it at the same time. I know for
sure, that if I started a news group for computer tech support, I
wouldn't
be posting this anal retentive message!

I find the OP's suggestion to be potentially helpful to all. Now if
only people would read the FAQ before posting ...

"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:Axcpb.9521$Re.995@lakeread06...
Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine FAQ
that
Sam
publishes that makes suggestions for what to do when asking for
assistance
on the group. It should be right up front and include:

1) Include the model, chassis, year, type of product, and symptom in
the
SUBJECT LINE.

2) Include as much diagnostic information as you have in clear
concise,
grammatically correct language.

3) Include a description of your technical ability and experience
level
with the product.

4) etc.

Anyone else have some suggestions. How about it Sam?

Leonard Caillouet


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Bill]

"Bruce" <Montypythom@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3fae2327$0$9606

Like many who visit this group, I am really fed up with those so
called "experts" or "perfectionists" who just wait for someone to make
a mistake and then jump on his case and tear him to pieces ! I will
not mention names here but I'm sure they know who they are. While I
am very grateful for the advice I get here from very nice folks, I
must tell those few who think of themselves like super human beings to
please chill ! None of you own this list so you can not dictate how it
should work. The bottom line is: if you don't like a post, or a
person, just ignore his post. I think this is a rule everybody can
live with.
$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...

I dont care whos right or wrong, at the end of the day we ask questions to
gain knowledge, we help our fellow man and thats a good thing ( the story on
the power switch did tickle me !!). A dumb question is one that is NOT asked
!!

rgds

"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqo91a1hqaadd4@corp.supernews.com...
Franc I did supply relevant details when it was requested. As I explained
before, I'm not perfect, and just learning what info the techs here want
when I ask for help. If 4 techs tried to help when I didn't note the model
number of my amp, then I'm inclined to think that I am asking for help in
the proper way...then if one tech thinks that he cannot help me with my
problem unless he has the model number of the amp, that's ok, except when
I
feel that I'm being belittled. I have no problem supplying the info at
all,
it's going to help me in the long run, well dauh!!!!!! But if someone
leaves
out some info that you need to help that person, ask politely, no need to
be
rude, just because you know more about repairing electronics than me
doesn't give you the right to talk to me any less then a equal.
As far as not being quailifed, what's the point of the forum then? Maybe
you
should ban all people that don't work in your field!

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4qunqvs9lhhuragi58ilghn22np7hu6l3h@4ax.com...
On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:10:09 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> put finger to keyboard and composed:

This whole discussion is stupid, you're arguing over semantics. I just
started using new groups and I thought that the whole idea was to share
knowledge with others, not stupid sarcastic comments (replying to one
of
my
posts) telling me that "we can't read your mind" and the person knows
who
he
is!!!

I don't think anyone has been rude to you in this NG. In fact this
group too often receives postings from people like yourself with
rudimentary qualifications who provide little, if any, pertinent
detail. Hence the suggested addition to our FAQ.

well excusing the hell of me for asking for help, with a subject that
I'm not familiar with!!!

Help us to help you. Just give us some relevant detail, eg brand,
model, circuit reference.

I've worked in the computer industry for 10 years,
4+ years in Commercial Technical Support and have always treated people
that
have less technical skill as equals. Don't forget that the person that
you
help today, can help you with something tomorrow. Maybe you could
politely
ask, the person in question, to look at a posting that outlines a
formula
(SUBJECT LINE, grammatically correct language ETC) that will help them
in
the long run.

Wasn't that the OP's point?

For myself I know that I haven't explained my recent problem
with my amp as well as I could, but try to remember that I was trying
to
figure out what the heck was wrong with it at the same time. I know for
sure, that if I started a news group for computer tech support, I
wouldn't
be posting this anal retentive message!

I find the OP's suggestion to be potentially helpful to all. Now if
only people would read the FAQ before posting ...

"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:Axcpb.9521$Re.995@lakeread06...
Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine FAQ
that
Sam
publishes that makes suggestions for what to do when asking for
assistance
on the group. It should be right up front and include:

1) Include the model, chassis, year, type of product, and symptom in
the
SUBJECT LINE.

2) Include as much diagnostic information as you have in clear
concise,
grammatically correct language.

3) Include a description of your technical ability and experience
level
with the product.

4) etc.

Anyone else have some suggestions. How about it Sam?

Leonard Caillouet


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Bob Shuman]

I like your attitude. From personal experiences I can recall over the years
working on home electronics and automobiles, the times I have learned the
most was when I made a mistake/screwed up. This forced me to figure out why
something bad happened and how to do things differently the next time to
prevent it from recurring. The caveat here is to always be safe first ...
so you can learn from the experience.

Bob

"Bill" <elect21st@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8fb59540.0311091515.489bd584@posting.google.com...

"Bruce" <Montypythom@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3fae2327$0$9606

Like many who visit this group, I am really fed up with those so
called "experts" or "perfectionists" who just wait for someone to make
a mistake and then jump on his case and tear him to pieces ! I will
not mention names here but I'm sure they know who they are. While I
am very grateful for the advice I get here from very nice folks, I
must tell those few who think of themselves like super human beings to
please chill ! None of you own this list so you can not dictate how it
should work. The bottom line is: if you don't like a post, or a
person, just ignore his post. I think this is a rule everybody can
live with.

 

[Mike Wilson]

I like yout attitude Bob
Have you worked as a mechanic like myself? I haven't had any problems at all
with the automehcanic forms, we talk the same Language I guess. I worked as
a apprentice Mechanic, 7 years for GM, before I started working in the
computer industry. If you you need advice, I may be able to help.

Mike

"Bob Shuman" <reshuman@removethis.lucent.com> wrote in message
news:bomjv3$mb9@netnews.proxy.lucent.com...

I like your attitude. From personal experiences I can recall over the
years
working on home electronics and automobiles, the times I have learned the
most was when I made a mistake/screwed up. This forced me to figure out
why
something bad happened and how to do things differently the next time to
prevent it from recurring. The caveat here is to always be safe first ...
so you can learn from the experience.

Bob

"Bill" <elect21st@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8fb59540.0311091515.489bd584@posting.google.com...
"Bruce" <Montypythom@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3fae2327$0$9606

Like many who visit this group, I am really fed up with those so
called "experts" or "perfectionists" who just wait for someone to make
a mistake and then jump on his case and tear him to pieces ! I will
not mention names here but I'm sure they know who they are. While I
am very grateful for the advice I get here from very nice folks, I
must tell those few who think of themselves like super human beings to
please chill ! None of you own this list so you can not dictate how it
should work. The bottom line is: if you don't like a post, or a
person, just ignore his post. I think this is a rule everybody can
live with.

 

[Mike Wilson]

I hear ya Bill
I recently went to a different news group for my problem with my amp. Three
replies from one person and bingo, I know exactly what is wrong with the
amp. The person that helped me, repairs electronic equipment as a hobby, so
no attitude thing happenning.
I don't want to say that the people here don't know their stuff, I know they
do, however for someone like myself I needed a grass roots approach.
Sometimes a different onion, makes all the difference in the world. In this
newsgroup, maybe the person giving out the advice should ask him or herself
"who am I trying to communicate with?"

Mike W.

"Bill" <elect21st@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8fb59540.0311091515.489bd584@posting.google.com...

"Bruce" <Montypythom@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3fae2327$0$9606

Like many who visit this group, I am really fed up with those so
called "experts" or "perfectionists" who just wait for someone to make
a mistake and then jump on his case and tear him to pieces ! I will
not mention names here but I'm sure they know who they are. While I
am very grateful for the advice I get here from very nice folks, I
must tell those few who think of themselves like super human beings to
please chill ! None of you own this list so you can not dictate how it
should work. The bottom line is: if you don't like a post, or a
person, just ignore his post. I think this is a rule everybody can
live with.
$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
I dont care whos right or wrong, at the end of the day we ask questions
to
gain knowledge, we help our fellow man and thats a good thing ( the
story on
the power switch did tickle me !!). A dumb question is one that is NOT
asked
!!

rgds

"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqo91a1hqaadd4@corp.supernews.com...
Franc I did supply relevant details when it was requested. As I
explained
before, I'm not perfect, and just learning what info the techs here
want
when I ask for help. If 4 techs tried to help when I didn't note the
model
number of my amp, then I'm inclined to think that I am asking for help
in
the proper way...then if one tech thinks that he cannot help me with
my
problem unless he has the model number of the amp, that's ok, except
when
I
feel that I'm being belittled. I have no problem supplying the info at
all,
it's going to help me in the long run, well dauh!!!!!! But if someone
leaves
out some info that you need to help that person, ask politely, no need
to
be
rude, just because you know more about repairing electronics than me
doesn't give you the right to talk to me any less then a equal.
As far as not being quailifed, what's the point of the forum then?
Maybe
you
should ban all people that don't work in your field!

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4qunqvs9lhhuragi58ilghn22np7hu6l3h@4ax.com...
On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:10:09 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> put finger to keyboard and composed:

This whole discussion is stupid, you're arguing over semantics. I
just
started using new groups and I thought that the whole idea was to
share
knowledge with others, not stupid sarcastic comments (replying to
one
of
my
posts) telling me that "we can't read your mind" and the person
knows
who
he
is!!!

I don't think anyone has been rude to you in this NG. In fact this
group too often receives postings from people like yourself with
rudimentary qualifications who provide little, if any, pertinent
detail. Hence the suggested addition to our FAQ.

well excusing the hell of me for asking for help, with a subject
that
I'm not familiar with!!!

Help us to help you. Just give us some relevant detail, eg brand,
model, circuit reference.

I've worked in the computer industry for 10 years,
4+ years in Commercial Technical Support and have always treated
people
that
have less technical skill as equals. Don't forget that the person
that
you
help today, can help you with something tomorrow. Maybe you could
politely
ask, the person in question, to look at a posting that outlines a
formula
(SUBJECT LINE, grammatically correct language ETC) that will help
them
in
the long run.

Wasn't that the OP's point?

For myself I know that I haven't explained my recent problem
with my amp as well as I could, but try to remember that I was
trying
to
figure out what the heck was wrong with it at the same time. I know
for
sure, that if I started a news group for computer tech support, I
wouldn't
be posting this anal retentive message!

I find the OP's suggestion to be potentially helpful to all. Now if
only people would read the FAQ before posting ...

"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:Axcpb.9521$Re.995@lakeread06...
Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine FAQ
that
Sam
publishes that makes suggestions for what to do when asking for
assistance
on the group. It should be right up front and include:

1) Include the model, chassis, year, type of product, and
symptom in
the
SUBJECT LINE.

2) Include as much diagnostic information as you have in clear
concise,
grammatically correct language.

3) Include a description of your technical ability and
experience
level
with the product.

4) etc.

Anyone else have some suggestions. How about it Sam?

Leonard Caillouet


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Mike Wilson]

You must be one hell of a nerd!!!
I knew you were an asshole, thanks for proving it : )
I just hope that you can understand that some people in this world don't put
up with bullshit. I don't care if you offer me a cheque for $250,000, if
you're an asshole, you can stuff it up your ass. In the future, if you reply
to one of my posts and you don't treat me with respect, we will have this
whole discussion again.

Mike

"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:Gr_qb.419$5e.187@lakeread06...

"Mike Wilson" <wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:vqnsc7b81gf01c@corp.supernews.com...
Do you need help with the English Language Leonard?

No.

Can someone not have more than one opinion in a message?

I never said that one could not.

If not, then I think that you are obtuse.

Read the posts that you have made recently, then read mine. Who is
obtuse?

The argument over which way to post a message should be left to, the
person
in question. I agree with Daniel Sofie:
"Frankly, if you have something important to say, and it is technically
coherent and relevant, then I will read it no matter how you post
it....top,
bottom, or in between....... But your last post is a complete and utter
waste of bytes and of my time..... Get off my case or go
away......preferable both"

I completely agree with Dan, in fact, I believe that Dan was agreeing with
me. If my post is a waste...don't bother to reply.

The way in which you tell people to include technical data is what I
really
disagree with (sarcastic comments), but the whole idea of a template is
a
good idea just as long as you communicate to the individual, in the
proper
manner. Now, have I spelled it out good enough for you?

Glad we agree. I am rarely sarcastic, but sometimes it does seem
appropriate. Perhaps, now? Get over it Mikey.

I don't want a fight either, however when you treat me with less respect
than a working professional, (like yourself)
of course I'm going to get a little offended. You posted this original
message ("Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine
FAQ") just after your INSULTING comment was made to me, "we are not
psychic, we don't know what you have." So in turn, I thought it was
directed
towards me.

There is no fight. That post was directed to everyone as a request for
ideas for how to handle a constant frustration. People want the help of
professionals without even the most basic information all the time. We
still try to help. If you recall, I tried to help you, didn't I? BTW,
that
post with the confusing description of which cap that had been changed may
have been considered a bit, what, obtuse?

I've been down this road before (as I mentioned before) and I
know how the basic communication can get lost is a discussion.
Maybe it was a logical assumption that I didn't have to include the
model
number of the amp. I'm new here, I didn't know that I had to include
every

You don't, but you will get better help if you do.

piece of info, is that far to say? If so, who gives you the right to
nasty
with me?

What gives you the right to ask for help. The same thing that gives me
the
right to be an ass if I choose to be. The same thing that gives you the
right to be obtuse, confusing, or just thin-skinned. Lighten up.

Hey you want to talk computer tech stuff, hardware and software
support, I'll make you look pretty dumb in no time.

Don't bet on that.

So think about that before you loose it with someone that is reaching out
for
help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm really intimidated. Give me a break. This is usenet. If you want to
be here you need to be prepared to take a suggestion and a lot more abuse
than you got from me. Remember I DID try to help you. Oh, well, I guess
the time spent trying to figure evaluate your problem from the minimal
(and
incorrect, BTW) information, and the time spent replying, and the time
spent
looking through a pile of obsolete Kenwood manuals to see if I had the
right
one, and the time spent posting the information to call ECT for your
manual,
and so forth does not matter. It is more significant to you that I was a
bit sarcastic in a reply. Enough. My points have been made and my record
of how I treat people on newsgroups is one that I am proud of. If you
feel
otherwise you are entitled to your opinion and you can have the last word
on
the matter if you choose.

If you need help on any other matter I will be glad to offer it if I can.

Leonard Caillouet, BS, MS, PAASB (pedantic asshole and sarcastic bastard)

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:00:55 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
<wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> put finger to keyboard and composed:

Franc I did supply relevant details when it was requested. As I explained
before, I'm not perfect, and just learning what info the techs here want
when I ask for help. If 4 techs tried to help when I didn't note the model
number of my amp, then I'm inclined to think that I am asking for help in
the proper way...then if one tech thinks that he cannot help me with my
problem unless he has the model number of the amp, that's ok, except when I
feel that I'm being belittled.

As I see it, Leonard tried to be helpful, despite the lack of info.
Overall I find sci.electronics.repair to be a friendly community,
except in the case of unfortunate crossposts to aus.electronics where
a couple of gutter dwelling scumbags hang out. In any case, I see that
aus.electronics answered your questions, after you provided the
requisite info ;-)

BTW, it's just as well you didn't post to aus.electronics using the
term, "microferret". Some of the regulars can be brutal ...

One more thing. The correct description for C29 & C30 is "capacitor",
not "capistor".

I have no problem supplying the info at all,
it's going to help me in the long run, well dauh!!!!!! But if someone leaves
out some info that you need to help that person, ask politely, no need to be
rude, just because you know more about repairing electronics than me
doesn't give you the right to talk to me any less then a equal.

The comment, "we can't read your mind", reflects a genuine level of
frustration felt by many of the regulars in this group. You have to
remember that, unlike computer "technicians" whose expertise is
restricted to changing boards and updating drivers, we are component
level repairers. As such, we need to know the brand and model of the
equipment in question.

As far as not being quailifed, what's the point of the forum then? Maybe you
should ban all people that don't work in your field!

Nobody wants to ban anyone from this NG. Leonard merely asked that
people indicate their level of expertise so that answers could be
pitched at the right level. Otherwise we are reduced to making
inferences based on context. For example, if someone refers to a 25kV
CRT anode as a "suction cup thingy", then certain safety disclaimers
would be in order.

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4qunqvs9lhhuragi58ilghn22np7hu6l3h@4ax.com...
On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:10:09 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> put finger to keyboard and composed:

This whole discussion is stupid, you're arguing over semantics. I just
started using new groups and I thought that the whole idea was to share
knowledge with others, not stupid sarcastic comments (replying to one of
my
posts) telling me that "we can't read your mind" and the person knows who
he
is!!!

I don't think anyone has been rude to you in this NG. In fact this
group too often receives postings from people like yourself with
rudimentary qualifications who provide little, if any, pertinent
detail. Hence the suggested addition to our FAQ.

well excusing the hell of me for asking for help, with a subject that
I'm not familiar with!!!

Help us to help you. Just give us some relevant detail, eg brand,
model, circuit reference.

I've worked in the computer industry for 10 years,
4+ years in Commercial Technical Support and have always treated people
that
have less technical skill as equals. Don't forget that the person that
you
help today, can help you with something tomorrow. Maybe you could
politely
ask, the person in question, to look at a posting that outlines a formula
(SUBJECT LINE, grammatically correct language ETC) that will help them in
the long run.

Wasn't that the OP's point?

For myself I know that I haven't explained my recent problem
with my amp as well as I could, but try to remember that I was trying to
figure out what the heck was wrong with it at the same time. I know for
sure, that if I started a news group for computer tech support, I
wouldn't
be posting this anal retentive message!

I find the OP's suggestion to be potentially helpful to all. Now if
only people would read the FAQ before posting ...

"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:Axcpb.9521$Re.995@lakeread06...
Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine FAQ that
Sam
publishes that makes suggestions for what to do when asking for
assistance
on the group. It should be right up front and include:

1) Include the model, chassis, year, type of product, and symptom in
the
SUBJECT LINE.

2) Include as much diagnostic information as you have in clear concise,
grammatically correct language.

3) Include a description of your technical ability and experience
level
with the product.

4) etc.

Anyone else have some suggestions. How about it Sam?

Leonard Caillouet


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:00:55 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
<wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> put finger to keyboard and composed:

Franc I did supply relevant details when it was requested. As I explained
before, I'm not perfect, and just learning what info the techs here want
when I ask for help. If 4 techs tried to help when I didn't note the model
number of my amp, then I'm inclined to think that I am asking for help in
the proper way...then if one tech thinks that he cannot help me with my
problem unless he has the model number of the amp, that's ok, except when I
feel that I'm being belittled.

As I see it, Leonard tried to be helpful, despite the lack of info.
Overall I find sci.electronics.repair to be a friendly community,
except in the case of unfortunate crossposts to aus.electronics where
a couple of gutter dwelling scumbags hang out. In any case, I see that
aus.electronics answered your questions, after you provided the
requisite info ;-)

BTW, it's just as well you didn't post to aus.electronics using the
term, "microferret". Some of the regulars can be brutal ...

One more thing. The correct description for C29 & C30 is "capacitor",
not "capistor".

I have no problem supplying the info at all,
it's going to help me in the long run, well dauh!!!!!! But if someone leaves
out some info that you need to help that person, ask politely, no need to be
rude, just because you know more about repairing electronics than me
doesn't give you the right to talk to me any less then a equal.

The comment, "we can't read your mind", reflects a genuine level of
frustration felt by many of the regulars in this group. You have to
remember that, unlike computer "technicians" whose expertise is
restricted to changing boards and updating drivers, we are component
level repairers. As such, we need to know the brand and model of the
equipment in question.

As far as not being quailifed, what's the point of the forum then? Maybe you
should ban all people that don't work in your field!

Nobody wants to ban anyone from this NG. Leonard merely asked that
people indicate their level of expertise so that answers could be
pitched at the right level. Otherwise we are reduced to making
inferences based on context. For example, if someone refers to a 25kV
CRT anode as a "suction cup thingy", then certain safety disclaimers
would be in order.

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4qunqvs9lhhuragi58ilghn22np7hu6l3h@4ax.com...
On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:10:09 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> put finger to keyboard and composed:

This whole discussion is stupid, you're arguing over semantics. I just
started using new groups and I thought that the whole idea was to share
knowledge with others, not stupid sarcastic comments (replying to one of
my
posts) telling me that "we can't read your mind" and the person knows who
he
is!!!

I don't think anyone has been rude to you in this NG. In fact this
group too often receives postings from people like yourself with
rudimentary qualifications who provide little, if any, pertinent
detail. Hence the suggested addition to our FAQ.

well excusing the hell of me for asking for help, with a subject that
I'm not familiar with!!!

Help us to help you. Just give us some relevant detail, eg brand,
model, circuit reference.

I've worked in the computer industry for 10 years,
4+ years in Commercial Technical Support and have always treated people
that
have less technical skill as equals. Don't forget that the person that
you
help today, can help you with something tomorrow. Maybe you could
politely
ask, the person in question, to look at a posting that outlines a formula
(SUBJECT LINE, grammatically correct language ETC) that will help them in
the long run.

Wasn't that the OP's point?

For myself I know that I haven't explained my recent problem
with my amp as well as I could, but try to remember that I was trying to
figure out what the heck was wrong with it at the same time. I know for
sure, that if I started a news group for computer tech support, I
wouldn't
be posting this anal retentive message!

I find the OP's suggestion to be potentially helpful to all. Now if
only people would read the FAQ before posting ...

"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:Axcpb.9521$Re.995@lakeread06...
Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine FAQ that
Sam
publishes that makes suggestions for what to do when asking for
assistance
on the group. It should be right up front and include:

1) Include the model, chassis, year, type of product, and symptom in
the
SUBJECT LINE.

2) Include as much diagnostic information as you have in clear concise,
grammatically correct language.

3) Include a description of your technical ability and experience
level
with the product.

4) etc.

Anyone else have some suggestions. How about it Sam?

Leonard Caillouet


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Mike Wilson]

Yep, Franc I went to another site for help. I was getting sick and tired of
being bashed for the same thing over and over again, and you are no
different. Your reply is exactly what I'm talking about, sarcastic assholes
that have nothing better to do then bash people for making a mistake. You
may know what your doing when it comes to doing electronic repairs, but as
far as being a person, you and Leonard are nothing, you have no people
skills at all. If you haven't noticed there are a few people that agree with
me. If you talked to me like this in the street, I have no problem punching
you in the mush!!! and as far as the term "microferret" goes... you don't
have a sense of humour? I guess I proved my point again...take the stick out
your ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for correcting my spelling, seems like your a teacher also, I'll make
sure I hit the spell check next time, ohh I forgot your perfect, so you
don't make spelling mistakes.
Leonard tried to be helpful, yes he did, however, like I mentioned before,
you can shove it up your ass if your going to get snotty with me. And again,
I did supply the info when it was requested of me, so don't try to shovel
this shit to me about "supplying requisite info" Even before I asked anybody
about my amp, I looked at the FAQ, I didn't find any info at all that
suggested why my amp was acting like it was (Pulsing Woofers) Please prove
me wrong. : )
Leonard suggested that people follow some kind of template, this template is
a suggestion, it's not in action right now, so until it is the norm here, no
one has to follow your way, or Leonard's way, it's the majority that rules,
not you. BTW Leonard suggested the template after I gave him the info about
my amp, suggesting that he was fed up with people like me. In all honesty I
feel for people that are trying to figure out a person's problem, as I to
have to deal with those people at work, however, I don't care if 500 people
before me, pissed you and Leonard off, it's not my fault. I didn't piss in
your Corn Flakes, and beside who's the scumbag looking at other newsgroups
looking for dirt (if any) on me because you don't have anything intellegent
to say and your whole argument is bogus. Don't forget, I got the answer to
my amp problem with no bullshit at all, that's more then I can say about
you.

BTW I do more then change a few network cards, drivers, I'm responsible for:
Network accounts, modifying Network Topology, I trouble shoot all of the
workstation's (2,000 units) hardware and software within the company I work
for and if that wasn't enough, I have to make custom images for all of the
workstations.Have you even looked at your operating system's registry? do
you know what the registry is? Probably not!! How about I give you and
Leonard a little quiz to test your knowledge? Yes Leonard I do bet on it,
that a make you look pretty dumb really quick!!!!!! So there's more to being
a computer tech then you think!!!


"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:tcrqqvshqqvrmu82rtuqb6nv12h0fjb6e6@4ax.com...

On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:00:55 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> put finger to keyboard and composed:

Franc I did supply relevant details when it was requested. As I explained
before, I'm not perfect, and just learning what info the techs here want
when I ask for help. If 4 techs tried to help when I didn't note the
model
number of my amp, then I'm inclined to think that I am asking for help in
the proper way...then if one tech thinks that he cannot help me with my
problem unless he has the model number of the amp, that's ok, except when
I
feel that I'm being belittled.

As I see it, Leonard tried to be helpful, despite the lack of info.
Overall I find sci.electronics.repair to be a friendly community,
except in the case of unfortunate crossposts to aus.electronics where
a couple of gutter dwelling scumbags hang out. In any case, I see that
aus.electronics answered your questions, after you provided the
requisite info ;-)

BTW, it's just as well you didn't post to aus.electronics using the
term, "microferret". Some of the regulars can be brutal ...

One more thing. The correct description for C29 & C30 is "capacitor",
not "capistor".

I have no problem supplying the info at all,
it's going to help me in the long run, well dauh!!!!!! But if someone
leaves
out some info that you need to help that person, ask politely, no need to
be
rude, just because you know more about repairing electronics than me
doesn't give you the right to talk to me any less then a equal.

The comment, "we can't read your mind", reflects a genuine level of
frustration felt by many of the regulars in this group. You have to
remember that, unlike computer "technicians" whose expertise is
restricted to changing boards and updating drivers, we are component
level repairers. As such, we need to know the brand and model of the
equipment in question.

As far as not being quailifed, what's the point of the forum then? Maybe
you
should ban all people that don't work in your field!

Nobody wants to ban anyone from this NG. Leonard merely asked that
people indicate their level of expertise so that answers could be
pitched at the right level. Otherwise we are reduced to making
inferences based on context. For example, if someone refers to a 25kV
CRT anode as a "suction cup thingy", then certain safety disclaimers
would be in order.

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4qunqvs9lhhuragi58ilghn22np7hu6l3h@4ax.com...
On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:10:09 -0600, "Mike Wilson"
wilsonjamesmichael@yahoo.ca> put finger to keyboard and composed:

This whole discussion is stupid, you're arguing over semantics. I just
started using new groups and I thought that the whole idea was to
share
knowledge with others, not stupid sarcastic comments (replying to one
of
my
posts) telling me that "we can't read your mind" and the person knows
who
he
is!!!

I don't think anyone has been rude to you in this NG. In fact this
group too often receives postings from people like yourself with
rudimentary qualifications who provide little, if any, pertinent
detail. Hence the suggested addition to our FAQ.

well excusing the hell of me for asking for help, with a subject
that
I'm not familiar with!!!

Help us to help you. Just give us some relevant detail, eg brand,
model, circuit reference.

I've worked in the computer industry for 10 years,
4+ years in Commercial Technical Support and have always treated
people
that
have less technical skill as equals. Don't forget that the person that
you
help today, can help you with something tomorrow. Maybe you could
politely
ask, the person in question, to look at a posting that outlines a
formula
(SUBJECT LINE, grammatically correct language ETC) that will help them
in
the long run.

Wasn't that the OP's point?

For myself I know that I haven't explained my recent problem
with my amp as well as I could, but try to remember that I was trying
to
figure out what the heck was wrong with it at the same time. I know
for
sure, that if I started a news group for computer tech support, I
wouldn't
be posting this anal retentive message!

I find the OP's suggestion to be potentially helpful to all. Now if
only people would read the FAQ before posting ...

"Leonard Caillouet" <lcailloNOSPAM@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:Axcpb.9521$Re.995@lakeread06...
Perhaps it would be a good idea to post a section in the fine FAQ
that
Sam
publishes that makes suggestions for what to do when asking for
assistance
on the group. It should be right up front and include:

1) Include the model, chassis, year, type of product, and symptom
in
the
SUBJECT LINE.

2) Include as much diagnostic information as you have in clear
concise,
grammatically correct language.

3) Include a description of your technical ability and experience
level
with the product.

4) etc.

Anyone else have some suggestions. How about it Sam?

Leonard Caillouet


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.



- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.