O
OG
Guest
I already have a stethoscope for listening to mechanicals.
Used it to isolate a noise under the hood.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
I already have a stethoscope for listening to mechanicals.
Used it to isolate a noise under the hood.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
P
philo
Guest
On 05/03/2016 04:27 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
yep that's the old trick I used to balance the dual SU carburetors on my
'59 Triumph
yep that's the old trick I used to balance the dual SU carburetors on my
'59 Triumph
J
Jason
Guest
On Tue, 3 May 2016 11:43:52 -0700 "OG" <AIEO@AIOESPAM.COM> wrote in
article <ngarhd$141a$1@gioia.aioe.org>
your house alread!
<snark off>
article <ngarhd$141a$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Yes. They are called "smoke detectors" and you probably have several in
your house alread!
<snark off>
M
Maurice Helwig
Guest
On 4/05/2016 3:49 AM, OG wrote:
Check the smoke Detectors in your house. with that much smoke they
should have gone off.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maurice Helwig
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Check the smoke Detectors in your house. with that much smoke they
should have gone off.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maurice Helwig
~~~~~~~~~~~~
W
Wolf K
Guest
On 2016-05-03 20:56, philo wrote:
AKA as garden hose. Cheaper than a stethoscope.
Best,
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca
AKA as garden hose. Cheaper than a stethoscope.
Best,
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca
M
MJC
Guest
In article <PjmWy.6768$Gy4.5578@fx17.iad>, wolfmac@sympatico.ca says...
Oh, Wolf, what great big ears you've got!...
Mike.
Oh, Wolf, what great big ears you've got!...
Mike.
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Wed, 4 May 2016 15:48:55 +1000, Maurice Helwig
<maurice_helwig@internode.on.net> wrote:
It's not the quantity of smoke, it's how long the PC continues to
smoke that makes household detectors go off. I have a smoke detector
in my office and home shop. Neither has ever been triggered by
transcient smoke signals. Figure on about 15 minutes for ionization
and 3 minutes for photoelectric:
<http://whnt.com/2012/07/16/smoke-detector-fail-a-taking-action-investigation/>
Anyway, a smoke detector is useless for finding the source of the
smoke, such as a hot component in the PC. For that, you would need a
smoke locator such as an IR camera.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
<maurice_helwig@internode.on.net> wrote:
It's not the quantity of smoke, it's how long the PC continues to
smoke that makes household detectors go off. I have a smoke detector
in my office and home shop. Neither has ever been triggered by
transcient smoke signals. Figure on about 15 minutes for ionization
and 3 minutes for photoelectric:
<http://whnt.com/2012/07/16/smoke-detector-fail-a-taking-action-investigation/>
Anyway, a smoke detector is useless for finding the source of the
smoke, such as a hot component in the PC. For that, you would need a
smoke locator such as an IR camera.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
P
philo
Guest
<snip>
Garden hose is too wide, just a small tube will do
Garden hose is too wide, just a small tube will do
Guest
Your nose. Might tr some tubing... But that's just an idea.
However, if actually saw smoke there is bound to be a burn mark somewhere.
Know what ? Before taking it apart, try it again with nothing plugged in to the USBs. It is possible one of them was a dead short. I think alot of them have fuses nut then i doubt that each and every one does. These companies cut costs in some of the strangest places sometimes. In fact I saw one laptop detected USB overcurent in software. That is more prone to fail to protect than fuses. Even moreso now that USB ports put out more power than before.
However, if actually saw smoke there is bound to be a burn mark somewhere.
Know what ? Before taking it apart, try it again with nothing plugged in to the USBs. It is possible one of them was a dead short. I think alot of them have fuses nut then i doubt that each and every one does. These companies cut costs in some of the strangest places sometimes. In fact I saw one laptop detected USB overcurent in software. That is more prone to fail to protect than fuses. Even moreso now that USB ports put out more power than before.
Guest
Actually if he really SAW smoke that filled the room he has nothing to lose. Now if he only smelled smoke that is a different story. But once it comes billowing out of there, don't worry about it.
He said it did not set off the smoke detectors...
Hmm. I think it would if he really saw a roomful of smoke.
Or if the nearest detector is near the kitchen the battery might have been removed.
The problem with disassembling a laptop is that many "normal" people will not be able to get it back together.
Guest
It's a laptop. Ideally it should be fired up on a bench power supply with current limiting - without the battery installed. Most of them take 19 volts. Or fire it up unplugged on the battery alone.
Qnd those brink power supplies have limiting so this problem is almost for sure a shorted USB stick. That means he most likely has a bad five volt regulator, and usually those are separate for the USB ports.
Guest
Exploded resistors do not overload other components, at least not in something like this. What happened is all the damage happened at once.
Resistors do not just expode, they explode from overvoltage cauing too much current to flow and it overheats,And sometimes this happend really fast. When that happens you can bet there was overvoltage fed into the unit.
If it is not the USB regulators it is the power brick.
Guest
I read that wrong, got it confused with something else. It is a desktop. My bad. Disregard what I wrote.
Guest
I read that wrong, got it confused with something else. It is a desktop. My bad. Disregard what I wrote.
Guest
I read that wrong, got it confused with something else. It is a desktop. My bad. Disregard what I wrote.
A
Andy
Guest
Interesting facts wrong but its ok
most good smoke detectors like first alert the only brand i use i have the
combo detector both ionization and photoelectric hard wired with battery
back up unit.
But even my battery only ionization unit that is directly over the pc went
off once when a test power supply blew a resistor and the smoke set it off
before i could even get to the window to open it to vent the smoke out of
the room
how fast they react ALL DEPENDS on 2 Things AGE OF UNIT all units should be
replaced EVERY 10 YEARS. in fact in my state and city it's a code
requirement.
Second is brand of unit if you get the cheap 8 dollar one at the dollar
store yes it wont react as good as the brand name first alert that costs you
20 or more dollars.
that is a proven fact.
But the 8 dollar one will go off if you boil water on the stove the better
unit wont
--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:sgakibd5i6on9mjq72fimp0k8jihvs6s1h@4ax.com...
most good smoke detectors like first alert the only brand i use i have the
combo detector both ionization and photoelectric hard wired with battery
back up unit.
But even my battery only ionization unit that is directly over the pc went
off once when a test power supply blew a resistor and the smoke set it off
before i could even get to the window to open it to vent the smoke out of
the room
how fast they react ALL DEPENDS on 2 Things AGE OF UNIT all units should be
replaced EVERY 10 YEARS. in fact in my state and city it's a code
requirement.
Second is brand of unit if you get the cheap 8 dollar one at the dollar
store yes it wont react as good as the brand name first alert that costs you
20 or more dollars.
that is a proven fact.
But the 8 dollar one will go off if you boil water on the stove the better
unit wont
--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:sgakibd5i6on9mjq72fimp0k8jihvs6s1h@4ax.com...
M
Maurice Helwig
Guest
On 5/05/2016 3:57 PM, Andy wrote:
the fire alarm when the boss would puff on his pipe. If they did not
then they were replaced Those were the days before smoking was banned in
all buildings and workp laces.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maurice Helwig
~~~~~~~~~~~~
We had smoke detectors in the control room at work that would activateInteresting facts wrong but its ok
most good smoke detectors like first alert the only brand i use i have the
combo detector both ionization and photoelectric hard wired with battery
back up unit.
But even my battery only ionization unit that is directly over the pc went
off once when a test power supply blew a resistor and the smoke set it off
before i could even get to the window to open it to vent the smoke out of
the room
how fast they react ALL DEPENDS on 2 Things AGE OF UNIT all units should be
replaced EVERY 10 YEARS. in fact in my state and city it's a code
requirement.
Second is brand of unit if you get the cheap 8 dollar one at the dollar
store yes it wont react as good as the brand name first alert that costs you
20 or more dollars.
that is a proven fact.
But the 8 dollar one will go off if you boil water on the stove the better
unit wont
the fire alarm when the boss would puff on his pipe. If they did not
then they were replaced Those were the days before smoking was banned in
all buildings and workp laces.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maurice Helwig
~~~~~~~~~~~~
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Thu, 5 May 2016 01:57:07 -0400, "Andy" <N@n.com> wrote:
>Interesting facts wrong but its ok
Nice diplomacy, but they're either facts, or they're wrong. Can't
have both.
The combo units are best. The photoelectric detectors are faster but
ionization detectors are more sensitive. The combination also
decreases false alarms as a real fire will trigger both, but chemical
and condensation problems will only trigger one or the other.
Egads. How much smoke did this resistor generate? What physical size
resistor? When I get a resistor too hot, it usually makes a small
puff of smoke before it blows. Unless it were wrapped in an oily rag
or the resistor was unusually large, there's not enough material in a
small ( <1/4 watt) resistor to produce much smoke.
Yep. However, the problem was not delay time or sensitivity. It was
that many battery powered smoke alarms were just sitting there with
dead batteries. Replacing the battery once per year was considered a
major imposition to many homeowners. To solve that problem, the
manufacturers were required to install use a non-replaceable Lithium
battery, in trade for requiring the homeowner to buy all new battery
operated smoke detectors.
Well, I prefer Kidde brand to First Alert. The main reason is that I
wanted a photoelectric detector with built in carbon monoxide
detection ability. I also wanted something that would not false on
kitchen cooking and my wood burning stove. I picked the Kidde Model
P3010K-CO ($40) for the house and shop:
<http://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en/us/products/fire-safety/smoke-alarms/p3010k-co/>
Ask me in about 8 years and I'll let you know how well they work. I
tested one with a galvanized pail full of newspapers. About 4 minutes
for the alarm to sound. So far, no falsing from normal cooking or the
woodburner. However, when I accidentally set fire to a yam in the
microwave, it set off the alarm in about 1 minute after I removed it
from the oven:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/burned-yam.html>
In both cases, the house was full of smoke before the alarm finally
went off.
You might be interested in these stories. The first is from 2007 and
is very much out of date. Yet many people still have similar old
smoke alarms. Newer alarms are allegedly faster to respond:
"Deadly Delay"
<http://www.wthr.com/global/Story.asp?s=6552929>
Notice that the fastest response was 16 minutes. See Part 2 at:
<http://www.wthr.com/global/Story.asp?s=6554435>
Test results
Test #1
First Alert dual sensor 18:00
First Alert photoelectric 23:38
First Alert ionization 33:45
Kidde ionization 27:16
Kidde dual sensor 28:50
Kidde photoelectric 29:30
Test #2
First Alert photoelectric 16:21
First Alert dual sensor 16:38
First Alert ionization 42:10
Kidde photoelectric 33:30
Kidde dual sensor 34:30
Kidde ionization 38:39
In 2012, the station continued the smoke detector campaign and
testing:
<http://whnt.com/2012/07/16/smoke-detector-fail-a-taking-action-investigation/>
The final result AFTER smoke was present:
Ionization: 17:00 minutes
Photoelectric: 2:48 seconds
Much better, methinks.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>Interesting facts wrong but its ok
Nice diplomacy, but they're either facts, or they're wrong. Can't
have both.
The combo units are best. The photoelectric detectors are faster but
ionization detectors are more sensitive. The combination also
decreases false alarms as a real fire will trigger both, but chemical
and condensation problems will only trigger one or the other.
But even my battery only ionization unit that is directly over the pc went
off once when a test power supply blew a resistor and the smoke set it off
before i could even get to the window to open it to vent the smoke out of
the room
Egads. How much smoke did this resistor generate? What physical size
resistor? When I get a resistor too hot, it usually makes a small
puff of smoke before it blows. Unless it were wrapped in an oily rag
or the resistor was unusually large, there's not enough material in a
small ( <1/4 watt) resistor to produce much smoke.
Yep. However, the problem was not delay time or sensitivity. It was
that many battery powered smoke alarms were just sitting there with
dead batteries. Replacing the battery once per year was considered a
major imposition to many homeowners. To solve that problem, the
manufacturers were required to install use a non-replaceable Lithium
battery, in trade for requiring the homeowner to buy all new battery
operated smoke detectors.
Well, I prefer Kidde brand to First Alert. The main reason is that I
wanted a photoelectric detector with built in carbon monoxide
detection ability. I also wanted something that would not false on
kitchen cooking and my wood burning stove. I picked the Kidde Model
P3010K-CO ($40) for the house and shop:
<http://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en/us/products/fire-safety/smoke-alarms/p3010k-co/>
Ask me in about 8 years and I'll let you know how well they work. I
tested one with a galvanized pail full of newspapers. About 4 minutes
for the alarm to sound. So far, no falsing from normal cooking or the
woodburner. However, when I accidentally set fire to a yam in the
microwave, it set off the alarm in about 1 minute after I removed it
from the oven:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/burned-yam.html>
In both cases, the house was full of smoke before the alarm finally
went off.
You might be interested in these stories. The first is from 2007 and
is very much out of date. Yet many people still have similar old
smoke alarms. Newer alarms are allegedly faster to respond:
"Deadly Delay"
<http://www.wthr.com/global/Story.asp?s=6552929>
Notice that the fastest response was 16 minutes. See Part 2 at:
<http://www.wthr.com/global/Story.asp?s=6554435>
Test results
Test #1
First Alert dual sensor 18:00
First Alert photoelectric 23:38
First Alert ionization 33:45
Kidde ionization 27:16
Kidde dual sensor 28:50
Kidde photoelectric 29:30
Test #2
First Alert photoelectric 16:21
First Alert dual sensor 16:38
First Alert ionization 42:10
Kidde photoelectric 33:30
Kidde dual sensor 34:30
Kidde ionization 38:39
In 2012, the station continued the smoke detector campaign and
testing:
<http://whnt.com/2012/07/16/smoke-detector-fail-a-taking-action-investigation/>
The final result AFTER smoke was present:
Ionization: 17:00 minutes
Photoelectric: 2:48 seconds
Much better, methinks.
But the 8 dollar one will go off if you boil water on the stove the better
unit wont
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
B
Brian Gregory
Guest
On 03/05/2016 22:59, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
At last. All this time I knew something was wrong with me.
--
Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.
On Tue, 3 May 2016 16:27:37 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
On Tue, 3 May 2016, philo wrote:
Yes. Your eyes
I thought it was your nose.
Michael
If your nose runs, and your feet smell, you're built upside down.
At last. All this time I knew something was wrong with me.
--
Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.
Guest
And what makes them red hot ?
Power dissipation. Too much of it caused by too much voltage across it which causes too much current to flow which causes too much wattage to need to dissipate which raises the temperature.
Resistors do not lower in value unless abused. Even then, more than half the time they open up.
I really screwed up before thinking this was a laptop, but in a desktop if something actually burns on the motherboard it is almost always a power supply that went open loop and threw too much voltage at it.
Still, one of the USB devices could have been shorted. That is a possibility. He might have just got it set up to copy when it just couldn't take anymore, because it is not that likely that accessing it would cause a short.
I think it highly possible that this is a case where the power supply coincidentally occurred at that time. If that's the case, it is already fried.