PC reliability

[mpm]

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 12:48:26 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:

IMO Windows XP was last known good. Windows 7 was a step back, ok for a
few years but not as good. The topper was the last update that I did
this weekend. It thoroughly destroyed two Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
installations.

I'd generally agree.
XP and Win-7 worked the best for me, and I was never of fan of the Microsoft OS versions that came later.

As for Hard Drives, I think I can honestly say (in 32+ years, easy) that I've NEVER had a HDD fail. That's a rough total of maybe 50 drives over the years, on various PC's and appliances. Average life is maybe 5 years (a guess), usually forced by advances in technology, etc...

I did lose a thumb-drive in the washer/dryer however.
It still worked, but I couldn't bring myself to trust it.

I've only had one mother board fail.
Some weird problem I never got to the bottom of.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 12:32:25 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

On 2020-01-13 11:35, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 09:48:21 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com
wrote:

IMO Windows XP was last known good. Windows 7 was a step back, ok for a
few years but not as good. The topper was the last update that I did
this weekend. It thoroughly destroyed two Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
installations.

I've done 4 free upgrades from Windoze 7 64 bit to Windoze 10. The
first was a bit rough and I had to start over after restoring Win 7
from backup (Macrium Reflect Free) and actually following the
directions. The problem was the virus scanner and some resident
programs needed to be removed before the upgrade would work properly.
the other three upgrades went smoothly, but took all day complete.

In my case it obviously didn't get into the heads of these <expression
censored> at Microsoft that there are PCs with dual-boot configuration.
They seem to have mucked with the MBR and instead of a clean rollback
Windows 7 will now goes into endless trial and shutdown loops. Meaning
it's trashed. How stupid.

True. MS doesn't really care or know anything about GRUB and will
gleefully wipe out or trash GRUB without provocation. Here's how to
fix the MBR (master boot record):
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=how+to+fix+mbr+window+7>
I prefer the EasyBCD method, but there are others.

Since you managed to get Win 7 and Linux installed on the same drive
without fumbling over the UEFI and secure boot, you probably don't
need my rant on the topic. However, if you suspect you're having
troubles in that area, there are guides and tutorial available:
"How to Boot and Install Linux on a UEFI PC With Secure Boot"
<https://www.howtogeek.com/175641/how-to-boot-and-install-linux-on-a-uefi-pc-with-secure-boot/>

On the other side of the fence, we have Linux, which offers at least
15 different boot loaders for MS to trash.
<https://www.ubuntupit.com/best-linux-bootloader-for-home-and-embedded-systems/>
I suspect there are probably more boot managers available. I would
not expect MS to test 15 or more boot managers for every mutation and
update to Windoze.

I am very glad I am nearly past that point. Still supporting some
clients who do not have EE's or who need tricky analog help. No large
projects anymore.

I'm jealous. I'm stuck with about 4 times the volume of junk in the
office that I can store at home. A storage locker is possible, but is
more time, trouble, and expense than I want to deal with. So, the
decision is to whether to keep all the useful goodies that clutter my
office, or either sell or give it all away. If I do that, it will be
very difficult for me to restart the business, should I be so
inclined.

That's what I plan on doing and four out of five PCs now run Linux.
After trying many Linux flavors I settled on MX Linux though two are
still running Lubuntu.

I've been running Linux Mint with Cinnamon desktop for about 2 years.
Unfortunately, I don't use it enough to pass judgment on its
usability. So far, no disasters, except for installing it on some
incompatible hardware.

Once the SSD, some cables and additional memory
modules arrive I am going to rig up VirtualBox and then will try to
activate the old Windows 7 licenses from each PC in the VM. The native
Windows 7 is now nuked anyhow and then I can use that space for data.

I don't know if that will work. My guess(tm) is that MS records when
a given machine last connected to the internet. If the delay is
sufficiently long (perhaps 1 year), the MS assumes that the machine
has been recycled and will allow the activation key to work on a
different machine. If less, activation will fail. Again, this is my
guess(tm).

The only devices that might might be recalcitrant inside a VM are the
Signalhound analyzer and generator. However, I just received an email
from Signalhound support that some of their customers have succesfully
run their new software (Spike) inside a VM. I believe one has to make
sure that OpenGL 2 or better is enabled via guest additions but they
said that except for occasional hangups due to the extra USB latency it
should otherwise work.

<https://signalhound.com/products/>
Now that you're retired, do you really need a small portable signal
generator and spectrum analyzer? I guess that PC gives you data
logging, analysis, capture, and printing capabilities which are useful
if you're traveling to your clients. But for use at home, you might
do as well with some test equipment that has more knobs and switches.

I won't touch Windows 10, not even with a 10ft pole, especially after
the lastest episode.

I wouldn't touch it either, except that's what my current customers
are using. In order to fix their problems, I have to eat the same dog
food and run the same software.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Joerg]

On 2020-01-13 15:52, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 12:32:25 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com
wrote:

On 2020-01-13 11:35, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 09:48:21 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com
wrote:

IMO Windows XP was last known good. Windows 7 was a step back, ok for a
few years but not as good. The topper was the last update that I did
this weekend. It thoroughly destroyed two Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
installations.

I've done 4 free upgrades from Windoze 7 64 bit to Windoze 10. The
first was a bit rough and I had to start over after restoring Win 7
from backup (Macrium Reflect Free) and actually following the
directions. The problem was the virus scanner and some resident
programs needed to be removed before the upgrade would work properly.
the other three upgrades went smoothly, but took all day complete.

In my case it obviously didn't get into the heads of these <expression
censored> at Microsoft that there are PCs with dual-boot configuration.
They seem to have mucked with the MBR and instead of a clean rollback
Windows 7 will now goes into endless trial and shutdown loops. Meaning
it's trashed. How stupid.

True. MS doesn't really care or know anything about GRUB and will
gleefully wipe out or trash GRUB without provocation. Here's how to
fix the MBR (master boot record):
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=how+to+fix+mbr+window+7
I prefer the EasyBCD method, but there are others.

It didn't destroy grub, it's that Windows 7 self-destructed. That is
what is so stupid in the way the update routines were written, there is
no way back. There should always be. Obviously a lack of design review
rigor.

So I blew it off the computer this afternoon.

Since you managed to get Win 7 and Linux installed on the same drive
without fumbling over the UEFI and secure boot, you probably don't
need my rant on the topic. However, if you suspect you're having
troubles in that area, there are guides and tutorial available:
"How to Boot and Install Linux on a UEFI PC With Secure Boot"
https://www.howtogeek.com/175641/how-to-boot-and-install-linux-on-a-uefi-pc-with-secure-boot/

On the other side of the fence, we have Linux, which offers at least
15 different boot loaders for MS to trash.
https://www.ubuntupit.com/best-linux-bootloader-for-home-and-embedded-systems/
I suspect there are probably more boot managers available. I would
not expect MS to test 15 or more boot managers for every mutation and
update to Windoze.

No, but I do expect them to test the case where the bootloader is not
reachable by the updater and then fork appropriately in the update
process. That isn't rocket science. IOW, leave out those parts and, if
warranted, warn the user about it.

I am very glad I am nearly past that point. Still supporting some
clients who do not have EE's or who need tricky analog help. No large
projects anymore.

I'm jealous. I'm stuck with about 4 times the volume of junk in the
office that I can store at home. A storage locker is possible, but is
more time, trouble, and expense than I want to deal with. So, the
decision is to whether to keep all the useful goodies that clutter my
office, or either sell or give it all away. If I do that, it will be
very difficult for me to restart the business, should I be so
inclined.

I'd seriously look at losing some stuff and I'd never go the storage
locker route because those just become eternal money pits. Just think
about which device and parts you haven't used in years.

That's what I plan on doing and four out of five PCs now run Linux.
After trying many Linux flavors I settled on MX Linux though two are
still running Lubuntu.

I've been running Linux Mint with Cinnamon desktop for about 2 years.
Unfortunately, I don't use it enough to pass judgment on its
usability. So far, no disasters, except for installing it on some
incompatible hardware.

Well, Linux ain't gold either. It often loses audio for no apparent
reason, among other things. The first MX Linux install today bombed ->
failure to load operating system. On the 2nd attempt it lost mouse
control at the end. After a hard reset it started but sluggishly. Also
has trouble with NVidia cards, many cameras, printers, scanners and so
on. Then again it's free and no EULA strangleholds.

Linux is somewhat like stepping back into you 80's car. All manual and
every other month you've got a wrench session. To get myself trained for
that a bit I bought a couple of Pogoplug devices which have zero
graphics capability, 128MB of RAM and a tiny 32-bit ARM processor. I
hacked one and put Arch Linux on it, 100% command line and even that is
totally spartan. Midnight Commander is as far as luxury goes on these.

Once the SSD, some cables and additional memory
modules arrive I am going to rig up VirtualBox and then will try to
activate the old Windows 7 licenses from each PC in the VM. The native
Windows 7 is now nuked anyhow and then I can use that space for data.

I don't know if that will work. My guess(tm) is that MS records when
a given machine last connected to the internet. If the delay is
sufficiently long (perhaps 1 year), the MS assumes that the machine
has been recycled and will allow the activation key to work on a
different machine. If less, activation will fail. Again, this is my
guess(tm).

I don't know, I'll just try. It's not that I want to skirt any licensing
rules because I paid for the licenses, it just moving them from native
to VM.

The only devices that might might be recalcitrant inside a VM are the
Signalhound analyzer and generator. However, I just received an email
from Signalhound support that some of their customers have succesfully
run their new software (Spike) inside a VM. I believe one has to make
sure that OpenGL 2 or better is enabled via guest additions but they
said that except for occasional hangups due to the extra USB latency it
should otherwise work.

https://signalhound.com/products/
Now that you're retired, do you really need a small portable signal
generator and spectrum analyzer?

Yes. I still handle tough cases for clients, like the last 10% of an EMC
case where their engineer has a hard time. The good thing is these two
boxes are the sizes of 3-4 cigarette packs in a row each. Fits into
carry-on luggage. If I can make that somehow work in a VM I can finally
kiss Microsoft good-bye.

... I guess that PC gives you data
logging, analysis, capture, and printing capabilities which are useful
if you're traveling to your clients. But for use at home, you might
do as well with some test equipment that has more knobs and switches.

I don't want any more boat anchors but try to become a minimalist.

I won't touch Windows 10, not even with a 10ft pole, especially after
the lastest episode.

I wouldn't touch it either, except that's what my current customers
are using. In order to fix their problems, I have to eat the same dog
food and run the same software.

If some project would require me to use Windows 10 they either have to
pay for a rented PC or I'd turn it down.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 07:12:02 -0800 (PST), Whoey Louie
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 8:58:12 AM UTC-5, John Doe wrote:
legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

It's Windows. Crashing was radically reduced with Windows XP back in
about 2000. Nowadays, occasional rebooting is apparently still useful,
but the blue screen of death (BSOD) or any other system freeze almost
never happens anymore.

+1

That's how I see it, Windows has improved over time.

WinNT 3.51 was very stable (in the 1990's), no BSODs, required 2-3
reboots a year. Win2000 was quite stable as well as XP.

 

[John Doe]

upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote:
John Doe wrote:
legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

It's Windows. Crashing was radically reduced with Windows XP
back in about 2000. Nowadays, occasional rebooting is apparently
still useful, but the blue screen of death (BSOD) or any other
system freeze almost never happens anymore.

+1

That's how I see it, Windows has improved over time.

The major difference with XP had to do with shared memory versus
dedicated memory in pre-XP Windows.

WinNT 3.51 was very stable (in the 1990's), no BSODs, required 2-3
reboots a year. Win2000 was quite stable as well as XP.

Never used it as a retail consumer, but Windows NT's nickname was "Not
Through".

 

[John Doe]

Windows 2000 was not a retail consumer operating system, it was
never important to ordinary users. Windows XP was the big jump to
stability, it was not just another Windows OS getting "better with
every generation".


Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 8:58:12 AM UTC-5, John Doe wrote:
legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

It's Windows. Crashing was radically reduced with Windows XP back in
about 2000. Nowadays, occasional rebooting is apparently still useful,
but the blue screen of death (BSOD) or any other system freeze almost
never happens anymore.

You say WinXP, but it was simply getting away from the Windows 95 heritage. Win2k was also very robust. It seems to me that Windows gets better with every generation. I'm not patting it on the back. I mean, I still continually threaten to install Linux all the time. But Windows is not the reboot every hour sort of system it used to be at all. My laptop crashes sometimes now, but that's more about the problems of using sleep mode which has never been perfected for sure. I guess I should use hibernate.

 

[Robert Baer]

legg wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

RL

Well, now back in the early 1980 daze of the IBM PC XT 5152, the
first HD i saw was the MFM Tandon 5 Megabyte hard drive.

And it ran reliably for well over ten years; still working when i
replaced it with Quantum which lasted maybe 3 years then crashed.

So one could say the reliability went clunk when the interface
advanced from MFM to IDE.

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 4:30:58 AM UTC-5, John Doe wrote:

Windows 2000 was not a retail consumer operating system, it was
never important to ordinary users. Windows XP was the big jump to
stability, it was not just another Windows OS getting "better with
every generation".

Not sure what you are trying to say. Windows had two paths, Windows 95, and descendants and Windows NT and descendants. Windows 95 was fatally flawed and rather than fight the beast any longer, after Windows Me, MS gave up and started selling the NT heritage on consumer computers.

I never bought WinXP, I had already installed Win2k on my machines. WinXP was Win2k with some better networking interface stuff. I had to manually set up networking under Win2k but it was easy compared to manually doing that in WinXP or any of the later stuff. The "simple" interfaces in WinXP worked ok some of the times, but there were plenty of things that were crap and got improved as they progressed through Vista, 7, 8 and finally 10.

My point is that the Win95 line was always going to have problems, big problems. WinNT and descendants never had most of those problems. They just needed to make the user interface more "friendly" which never really seemed to happen since everyone bitches about the new release of every version of Windows, including XP. People love it now for some reason, but when it first came out it was widely hated for any number of problems including not being able to shut it down.

So what is your point exactly???

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Doe]

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

IMO Windows XP was last known good. Windows 7 was a step back, ok
for a few years but not as good. The topper was the last update
that I did this weekend. It thoroughly destroyed two Windows 7
Pro 64-bit installations.

I've done 4 free upgrades from Windoze 7 64 bit to Windoze 10.
The first was a bit rough and I had to start over after restoring
Win 7 from backup (Macrium Reflect Free) and actually following
the directions. The problem was the virus scanner and some
resident programs needed to be removed before the upgrade would
work properly. the other three upgrades went smoothly, but took
all day complete.

That's one great thing Macrium Reflect is for. I began frequently
backing up Windows (making a clone of Windows, basically drive C)
way back in Windows 95 or at the latest Windows 98. Never forget
that wonderful feeling as all my Windows problems slowly disappeared
over the months. An experienced user is someone who knows enough to
back up their operating system. I have used and paid for many such
utilities. Macrium Reflect is by far the most reliable, easiest, and
longest running. It was recommended to me by "Fishface" in one of
the Windows operating system groups long ago. It even easily handles
the boot file problem encountered occasionally when restoring
Windows.

It works with Windows 10 as well as any prior version. Perhaps there
could be some situation where automatic updates causes more tension,
but it has not been a problem here. I still make frequent backups,
especially when doing a reinstall, and continuously after that.
Reinstalls are rare these days. Restoring a backup is not rare, and
still extremely useful.

No more Microsoft here. Four PCs are on Linux now, one more to
go.

I've been planning my retirement for about a year. It may be
another year before I can successfully close down the office. The
plan is to run most everything on Linux and run Windoze 7 on a VM
(virtual machine).

I have known Linux as the Holy Grail of operating systems ever since
I got on the Internet proper with Windows 95. It's a server
operating system. Nothing wrong with that. But it's a complete waste
of time for modern end users.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 14/01/2020 00:23, mpm wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 12:48:26 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:

IMO Windows XP was last known good. Windows 7 was a step back, ok
for a few years but not as good. The topper was the last update
that I did this weekend. It thoroughly destroyed two Windows 7 Pro
64-bit installations.

I'd generally agree. XP and Win-7 worked the best for me, and I was
never of fan of the Microsoft OS versions that came later.

As for Hard Drives, I think I can honestly say (in 32+ years, easy)
that I've NEVER had a HDD fail. That's a rough total of maybe 50
drives over the years, on various PC's and appliances. Average life
is maybe 5 years (a guess), usually forced by advances in technology,
etc...

You have been very lucky then. My own personal data suggests that over
the time I have had PC's one spinning rust and one SSD has failed. The
spinning rust you can get most of the important stuff back slowly but
when an SSD dies it is totally stone dead Norwegian blue parrot style.

I have also had three PSU failures including one where the magic smoke
and some flames came out of the back - fan assisted.

In my professional life I have seen quite a few HD failures. I'd
estimate about 1:200 failures per year. Although there was a very nasty
spike just after the Montreal protocol when the new cleaning procedure
sometimes left gunk. Bad drives which would characteristically fail on
the Tuesday mornings after a Bank Holiday. They were shipped back to the
maker and declared no fault found so re-entering the repair inventory.

The solution was to change the cleaning process again to make better use
of the newly approved solvents but the interim solution was to lift one
corner of a failed PC by 1cm and let go. The jolt would usually free the
heads from the platter stiction and the drive would recover immediately.
Shipping the failed drive back to the maker also freed the heads.

It is amazing considering the very high capacity of modern drives that
they are so reliable now. Some drives are more reliable than others. eg

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/175089-who-makes-the-most-reliable-hard-drives

I did lose a thumb-drive in the washer/dryer however. It still
worked, but I couldn't bring myself to trust it.

I've only had one mother board fail. Some weird problem I never got
to the bottom of.

That is usually the electrolytic capacitors somewhere near the CPU or
ram. They take on rakish angles when their innards expand. I also had
one portable where a defect meant the keyboard, mouse and on/off switch
would cease to function after prolonged use. And one, a P3 that ran so
hot on the underside that it could damage the varnish on a table.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 19:24:01 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

If some project would require me to use Windows 10 they either have to
pay for a rented PC or I'd turn it down.

I keep a single stand-alone, cobweb-strewn Windows 10 box just for
those odd times when something really needs 'doze, but those times are
few and far between. I first seriously delved into Linux 11 years ago
and it was very different then. Thankfully things have really improved
beyond all measure since then. But you can still tinker about with it
at a nuts and bolts level if you really want to - and plenty of nerds
do. Slackware is a popular distro that's ideal for the more hands-on
propeller-head type Linux user. Personally I prefer something a bit
more civilised that just works out of the box, which means a Debian
fork of some sort. Not Debian, but a fork of it. But there are other
excellent distros these days.
I now consult the Linux hardware compatibility list before buying a
new computer, so I know there won't be hardware/driver issues in
installing Linux on it. That's a very useful tip to remember in future
for anyone considering making the switch. You'll save yourself a ton
of time and trouble!

--

No deal? No problem! :-D

 

Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> wrote in
news:7n1s1ftlqpvcqje7vgm5p4at4rm4fq2vrd@4ax.com:

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 19:24:01 -0800, Joerg
news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

If some project would require me to use Windows 10 they either
have to pay for a rented PC or I'd turn it down.

I keep a single stand-alone, cobweb-strewn Windows 10 box just for
those odd times when something really needs 'doze, but those times
are few and far between. I first seriously delved into Linux 11
years ago and it was very different then. Thankfully things have
really improved beyond all measure since then. But you can still
tinker about with it at a nuts and bolts level if you really want
to - and plenty of nerds do. Slackware is a popular distro that's
ideal for the more hands-on propeller-head type Linux user.
Personally I prefer something a bit more civilised that just works
out of the box, which means a Debian fork of some sort. Not
Debian, but a fork of it. But there are other excellent distros
these days. I now consult the Linux hardware compatibility list
before buying a new computer, so I know there won't be
hardware/driver issues in installing Linux on it. That's a very
useful tip to remember in future for anyone considering making the
switch. You'll save yourself a ton of time and trouble!

"Linux 11"? No such thing. You mean the 11th releas of some
distro you like?

Modern Linux distros and desktops are pretty darn robust.

I used Ubuntu Studio.

I even use the daily releases and never see a problem.

<http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/>

 

[Joerg]

On 2020-01-14 10:29, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 19:24:01 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com
wrote:

If some project would require me to use Windows 10 they either have to
pay for a rented PC or I'd turn it down.

I keep a single stand-alone, cobweb-strewn Windows 10 box just for
those odd times when something really needs 'doze, but those times are
few and far between. ...

For me a Windwos 10 box would require a stack of air sick bags next to
it

... I first seriously delved into Linux 11 years ago
and it was very different then. Thankfully things have really improved
beyond all measure since then.

They sure have. My last encounter was almost as long ago and I didn't
like Linux back then. Not it's ok. Not perfect but ok.

... But you can still tinker about with it
at a nuts and bolts level if you really want to - and plenty of nerds
do. Slackware is a popular distro that's ideal for the more hands-on
propeller-head type Linux user. Personally I prefer something a bit
more civilised that just works out of the box, which means a Debian
fork of some sort. Not Debian, but a fork of it. But there are other
excellent distros these days.

That's my goal as well, hence MX Linux. It still has a 32-bit path for
older HW. For the tinker stuff I am using ArchLinux, no GUI, just the
bare metal.

I now consult the Linux hardware compatibility list before buying a
new computer, so I know there won't be hardware/driver issues in
installing Linux on it. That's a very useful tip to remember in future
for anyone considering making the switch. You'll save yourself a ton
of time and trouble!

However, much of the stuff I've got here is legacy HW in very good
condition so I don't want to throw it out. Other stuff such as the
Signalhound spectrum analyzer plain does not work with Linux, you cannot
get such devices for Linux, there just isn't any alternative. That's
where (hopefully ...) a VM will suffice since supposedly those can now
support OpenGL2 and higher. I'd really like to not have to dual-boot any
longer. While it works fine with grub it costs several minutes every time.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in
news:h86puaFc6oiU1@mid.individual.net:

I'd really like to not have to dual-boot any
longer. While it works fine with grub it costs several minutes
every time.

Oh my God and every second of your time is so precious!

Overkill. Especially if it is a laptop. They are mode to be shut
off between sessions, if you have any sense about dust and heat sinks.

Like watching water boil. Dude look somewhere else in the room.
Sheesh.

And yet you spend so much of it in Usenet.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 13:25:33 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

For me a Windwos 10 box would require a stack of air sick bags next to
it

I do actually keep a pile of sick bags next to mine!

That's my goal as well, hence MX Linux. It still has a 32-bit path for
older HW. For the tinker stuff I am using ArchLinux, no GUI, just the
bare metal.

That's good; very good. In fact is was the CLI that first turned me on
to Linux. I'd been watching with dismay as the Windows equivalent was
allowed to whither on the vine and become less and less useable with
every new release. I'd also got really sick of Windows telling me to
fuck off whenever I went anywhere near its OS files. With Linux, as
you know, there are no no-go zones and the CLI is extremely powerful.
I can trash the OS if I'm not careful, but that's never happened. I
find the sudo command is all the protection I personally need from
such eventualities. I will NEVER go back to Windows for anything other
than that application you mentioned and similar stuff like that where
it's unavoidable.

However, much of the stuff I've got here is legacy HW in very good
condition so I don't want to throw it out. Other stuff such as the
Signalhound spectrum analyzer plain does not work with Linux, you cannot
get such devices for Linux, there just isn't any alternative. That's
where (hopefully ...) a VM will suffice since supposedly those can now
support OpenGL2 and higher. I'd really like to not have to dual-boot any
longer. While it works fine with grub it costs several minutes every time.

Yeah, VMs are great if your HW can handle the overhead. I was tempted
to have a play with it once when it was first introduced to me by a
German computer scientist, but it would have stretched my technical
abilities a bit too much to make it worth the effort. YMMV. I had a
play with Solaris and BSD some time ago; they're both very good, too.
VERY good!

--

No deal? No problem! :-D

 

[amdx]

On 1/13/2020 1:25 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 11:58:22 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

He needs 10 because Turbotax will not work on windows 7 in 2020.
Mikek

Nope:
"Windows 7 Support is Ending"
https://www.intuit.com/support/windows-7-end-of-life/
TurboTax for tax year 2019 and QuickBooks 2020
will install on Windows 7 (Service Pack 1 or later)
PCs.

So it is written, so it must be.

Hmm, I'll blame that on my breakfast buddy, that was the
topic on Monday morning. He was talking about upgrading to 10,
because he uses Turbotax.
His solution is a dual boot using two separate Hard Drives.
He wants 7 because he has photo printer that only has 7 drivers, and
ham equipment that will only run on 7.
I've been trying to get him to build a new computer, he built one in
2011, and he gave me his parts list and I built exactly the same thing.
I think we are on borrowed time, but so far so good. I did need to oil
two Fans this week, that quieted them right down.

Mikek

 

[legg]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 11:21:18 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 08:20:18 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Correct. PC's are no longer crashing in regular equally space
intervals. Instead, a random number generator has been added to the
crash(delay,random_seed), to produce random crashes instead. In some
operating systems, these random crashes are part of the update
process. The only thing regular about today's PC crashes is that they
occur on the 2nd Tues of the month on Windoze machines.

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

SATA was introduced in about 2000. That would be 11 years of SATA
while your hard disk drives were failing. I don't think it's SATA,
especially since HDD density and technology has significantly improved
in the last 20 years.

Didn't have a machine with SATA till 2010. I might assign blame to
the IDE HDD trays that were used, but the trays were adopted after
steady failures. Used to have to keep three drives on rotation for
my main-use machine for back-up and recovery of OS. Never re-installed
an OS, but many 'repair' instances.

I suppose an OS issue could be mistaken for a HDD failure.

The real question is what changed in 2011. My guess(tm) is that the
power and noise levels of most PC's and HDD's has decreased to the
point where PC's are no longer spinning down the drives to save power
and comply with Energy Star requirements. I've had machines with old
drives running 24x7 that last far longer than those that get powered
on and off. There's also the situation where the replacement cycle,
HDD warranty time, and operating system support life, have converged
to the same span (about 5 to 7 years). That means that people are
replacing machines before they need to replace the HDD.

I understood there was an error correction issue with parallel bus.

RL ?

 

[John Robertson]

On 2020/01/13 11:21 a.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 08:20:18 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Correct. PC's are no longer crashing in regular equally space
intervals. Instead, a random number generator has been added to the
crash(delay,random_seed), to produce random crashes instead. In some
operating systems, these random crashes are part of the update
process. The only thing regular about today's PC crashes is that they
occur on the 2nd Tues of the month on Windoze machines.

I hear that cars made in 1950 were more reliable than cars made in 1910
too. (as in 2020 computers vs 1980 computers - 40 years of evolution)

Intelligent design? (ducking)

John ;-#)#

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 12:42:19 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:

On 2020/01/13 11:21 a.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 08:20:18 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Correct. PC's are no longer crashing in regular equally space
intervals. Instead, a random number generator has been added to the
crash(delay,random_seed), to produce random crashes instead. In some
operating systems, these random crashes are part of the update
process. The only thing regular about today's PC crashes is that they
occur on the 2nd Tues of the month on Windoze machines.


I hear that cars made in 1950 were more reliable than cars made in 1910
too. (as in 2020 computers vs 1980 computers - 40 years of evolution)

Intelligent design? (ducking)

John ;-#)#

I'm not sure that is completely correct. How many cars in 1950 would crash without hitting something? They do now!!!

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Jon Elson]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 08:20:18 -0500, legg wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as regularly as they
used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift occurred roughly
around the time IDE HDDs were replaced by SATA.

Can't really say about hard drives, all my important systems have gone
over to SSDs. But, if you stay away from the super high capacity
bleeding-edge ones, then even the magnetic drives are pretty reliable,
now.

As for CPU reliability, I have had a few failures, but my most important
systems have all been Dell Optiplex (commercial vs. their home systems).
I bought one used on eBay and ran it 24/7 for 12 years, then retired it
to my mother in law, and it is STILL going!

I run all Linux systems, and have had several stay up over a year. My
record was 460 days, then I had to shut it down to diagnose a dead page
scanner. These are daily use web surfing, electronic design and
accounting, use it for everything computers. My web/email/DNS/file
server computer is directly on the net, and usually stays up for 6 months
or more before there's a power failure or some other reason to shut it
down, even though hackers are constantly trying to break in.

I'm astonished at the reliability of these systems!

Jon