PC reliability

[legg]

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

RL

 

[John Doe]

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

It's Windows. Crashing was radically reduced with Windows XP back in
about 2000. Nowadays, occasional rebooting is apparently still useful,
but the blue screen of death (BSOD) or any other system freeze almost
never happens anymore.

 

John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote in news:qvht1c$c5r$1@dont-
email.me:

> Nowadays, occasional rebooting is apparently still useful,

Why? "Memory leaks"? Naaah...

I think Windows has been doing pretty good since the Windows 8 to
Windows 10 upgrade. Just keep it updated to foil the retarded hacks.

No need really to reboot that I have ever heard.

I sgut my machine off because it chews up juice and dirties up the
heat sink tines inside, and laptops are a PITA to keep clean so it runs
cool and keeps a long life. My current laptop is a 6 core, 12 pipe
Xeon with an Nvidia Quadro GOU, so keeping it cool is a good thing. So
I turn it off when I am not using it.

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 8:58:12 AM UTC-5, John Doe wrote:

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

It's Windows. Crashing was radically reduced with Windows XP back in
about 2000. Nowadays, occasional rebooting is apparently still useful,
but the blue screen of death (BSOD) or any other system freeze almost
never happens anymore.

+1

That's how I see it, Windows has improved over time.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-01-13 08:20, legg wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

About five years ago I standardized on a Hitachi 1.5 TB drive, and now
have about a dozen of them. I had one early failure in a RAID-5 NAS,
but they've all been running flawlessly since then. (The failure was in
a device used as a hot spare, so I didn't even have to reconstruct the
array.)

I have three Supermicro servers with H8DGI-F mobos and dual 12-core AMD
Magny Cours processors, and 40 to 64GB of ECCC memory. I had one power
supply go mammaries-topmost, but everything else has worked flawlessly.

I like them because they have a lot of grunt (250 GFLOPS), excellent
main-memory bandwidth for FDTD electromagnetic sims, legacy BIOS, IOMMU
(equivalent to Intel's VTx/VTd) and they don't have anything resembling
the Intel management unit backdoor.

They do eat a bit of power though.

For laptops, I have several Thinkpad T4xx units. They have shorter
lives than the Supermicros because they get a lot harder use--you don't
usually drop servers on the floor and break the display.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-01-13 10:20, Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 2020-01-13 08:20, legg wrote:
Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

About five years ago I standardized on a Hitachi 1.5 TB drive, and now
have about a dozen of them.  I had one early failure in a RAID-5 NAS,
but they've all been running flawlessly since then.  (The failure was in
a device used as a hot spare, so I didn't even have to reconstruct the
array.)

I have three Supermicro servers with H8DGI-F mobos and dual 12-core AMD
Magny Cours processors, and 40 to 64GB of ECCC memory.  I had one power
supply go mammaries-topmost, but everything else has worked flawlessly.

I like them because they have a lot of grunt (250 GFLOPS), excellent
main-memory bandwidth for FDTD electromagnetic sims, legacy BIOS, IOMMU
(equivalent to Intel's VTx/VTd) and they don't have anything resembling
the Intel management unit backdoor.

They do eat a bit of power though.

For laptops, I have several Thinkpad T4xx units.  They have shorter
lives than the Supermicros because they get a lot harder use--you don't
usually drop servers on the floor and break the display.

Oh, and they run Qubes OS or CentOS Linux, no Windows at all.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

(Posting from Qubes OS)

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Johann Klammer]

On 01/13/2020 02:20 PM, legg wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

RL

My guess is that the power grid became more stable.
I still have a bunch of PATAs in use.
One SATA which often makes a few clicks too many on bootup.

 

[Sjouke Burry]

On 13.01.20 14:20, legg wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

RL

Have not had any HD failure from 1980 to today.
Running out of storage space was the main reason to
get another set of disks.

 

Johann Klammer <klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote in news:qvi6sj$4c8$1
@gioia.aioe.org:

On 01/13/2020 02:20 PM, legg wrote:
Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

RL

My guess is that the power grid became more stable.
I still have a bunch of PATAs in use.
One SATA which often makes a few clicks too many on bootup.

Well, it sure is NOT because of power grid spike/sag reduction.

That is just plain silly.

Otherwise nations with noisey grids would show huge differences,
and they do not.

Power grid spikes/sags are not making it into your PC's rails.

Silliest thing I've heard in a while.

 

[Joerg]

On 2020-01-13 09:16, Sjouke Burry wrote:

On 13.01.20 14:20, legg wrote:
Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

RL

Have not had any HD failure from 1980 to today.
Running out of storage space was the main reason to
get another set of disks.

I had five AFAIR. Three were due to harsh traveling (pilot "nailed" it
onto the runway et cetera), two were stationary out-of-the-blue failures.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

On 2020-01-13 07:12, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 8:58:12 AM UTC-5, John Doe wrote:
legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

It's Windows. Crashing was radically reduced with Windows XP back in
about 2000. Nowadays, occasional rebooting is apparently still useful,
but the blue screen of death (BSOD) or any other system freeze almost
never happens anymore.

+1

That's how I see it, Windows has improved over time.

-1

IMO Windows XP was last known good. Windows 7 was a step back, ok for a
few years but not as good. The topper was the last update that I did
this weekend. It thoroughly destroyed two Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
installations.

No more Microsoft here. Four PCs are on Linux now, one more to go.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 8:58:12 AM UTC-5, John Doe wrote:

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

It's Windows. Crashing was radically reduced with Windows XP back in
about 2000. Nowadays, occasional rebooting is apparently still useful,
but the blue screen of death (BSOD) or any other system freeze almost
never happens anymore.

You say WinXP, but it was simply getting away from the Windows 95 heritage. Win2k was also very robust. It seems to me that Windows gets better with every generation. I'm not patting it on the back. I mean, I still continually threaten to install Linux all the time. But Windows is not the reboot every hour sort of system it used to be at all. My laptop crashes sometimes now, but that's more about the problems of using sleep mode which has never been perfected for sure. I guess I should use hibernate.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[amdx]

On 1/13/2020 7:20 AM, legg wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

What goes?

RL

I've been running my windows 7 computer since 2011.
I have never reinstalled windows, I had one crash but is was during a
hurricane and had problems on one outlet when we had a power surge.
The computer had a minor fix $80, I had a florescent lamp die and a
wall wart operated radio die, all on the same outlet.
I've been trying to get my buddy that put the parts list together
to do it again, I think it's time for a new computer. I saw him this
morning, after some research, he says, he may just make a dual boot
windows 7 and windows 10 computer.
He needs 10 because Turbotax will not work on windows 7 in 2020.

Mikek

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 09:48:21 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

IMO Windows XP was last known good. Windows 7 was a step back, ok for a
few years but not as good. The topper was the last update that I did
this weekend. It thoroughly destroyed two Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
installations.

I've done 4 free upgrades from Windoze 7 64 bit to Windoze 10. The
first was a bit rough and I had to start over after restoring Win 7
from backup (Macrium Reflect Free) and actually following the
directions. The problem was the virus scanner and some resident
programs needed to be removed before the upgrade would work properly.
the other three upgrades went smoothly, but took all day complete.

>No more Microsoft here. Four PCs are on Linux now, one more to go.

I've been planning my retirement for about a year. It may be another
year before I can successfully close down the office. The plan is to
run most everything on Linux and run Windoze 7 on a VM (virtual
machine).

Incidentally, I prefer Win 7 64 bit over the other MS offerings. XP
would have been nice, but I could never get the 64 bit version to play
properly. 32 bit and 4GB RAM is a severe limitation these days. I'll
spare you my pontifications on Windoze 8.1 and 10.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 11:58:22 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

He needs 10 because Turbotax will not work on windows 7 in 2020.
Mikek

Nope:
"Windows 7 Support is Ending"
<https://www.intuit.com/support/windows-7-end-of-life/>
TurboTax for tax year 2019 and QuickBooks 2020
will install on Windows 7 (Service Pack 1 or later)
PCs.

So it is written, so it must be.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 08:20:18 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Correct. PC's are no longer crashing in regular equally space
intervals. Instead, a random number generator has been added to the
crash(delay,random_seed), to produce random crashes instead. In some
operating systems, these random crashes are part of the update
process. The only thing regular about today's PC crashes is that they
occur on the 2nd Tues of the month on Windoze machines.

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

SATA was introduced in about 2000. That would be 11 years of SATA
while your hard disk drives were failing. I don't think it's SATA,
especially since HDD density and technology has significantly improved
in the last 20 years.

The real question is what changed in 2011. My guess(tm) is that the
power and noise levels of most PC's and HDD's has decreased to the
point where PC's are no longer spinning down the drives to save power
and comply with Energy Star requirements. I've had machines with old
drives running 24x7 that last far longer than those that get powered
on and off. There's also the situation where the replacement cycle,
HDD warranty time, and operating system support life, have converged
to the same span (about 5 to 7 years). That means that people are
replacing machines before they need to replace the HDD.

>What goes?

The opposite of what comes.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2020-01-13, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

no it happened in 1995 when I started using linux instead of DOS

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

I've worn out up two W.D. Green 3TB drives in the media PC (one new,
and one warranty replacement), switched to Purple. seems better.

> What goes?

1: real operating systems like Linux and Windows NT
2: more RAM means less swapping means drives see less wear.
3: better engineering.


--
Jasen.

 

[Joerg]

On 2020-01-13 11:35, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 09:48:21 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com
wrote:

IMO Windows XP was last known good. Windows 7 was a step back, ok for a
few years but not as good. The topper was the last update that I did
this weekend. It thoroughly destroyed two Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
installations.

I've done 4 free upgrades from Windoze 7 64 bit to Windoze 10. The
first was a bit rough and I had to start over after restoring Win 7
from backup (Macrium Reflect Free) and actually following the
directions. The problem was the virus scanner and some resident
programs needed to be removed before the upgrade would work properly.
the other three upgrades went smoothly, but took all day complete.

In my case it obviously didn't get into the heads of these <expression
censored> at Microsoft that there are PCs with dual-boot configuration.
They seem to have mucked with the MBR and instead of a clean rollback
Windows 7 will now goes into endless trial and shutdown loops. Meaning
it's trashed. How stupid.

No more Microsoft here. Four PCs are on Linux now, one more to go.

I've been planning my retirement for about a year. It may be another
year before I can successfully close down the office.

I am very glad I am nearly past that point. Still supporting some
clients who do not have EE's or who need tricky analog help. No large
projects anymore.

... The plan is to
run most everything on Linux and run Windoze 7 on a VM (virtual
machine).

That's what I plan on doing and four out of five PCs now run Linux.
After trying many Linux flavors I settled on MX Linux though two are
still running Lubuntu. Once the SSD, some cables and additional memory
modules arrive I am going to rig up VirtualBox and then will try to
activate the old Windows 7 licenses from each PC in the VM. The native
Windows 7 is now nuked anyhow and then I can use that space for data.

The only devices that might might be recalcitrant inside a VM are the
Signalhound analyzer and generator. However, I just received an email
from Signalhound support that some of their customers have succesfully
run their new software (Spike) inside a VM. I believe one has to make
sure that OpenGL 2 or better is enabled via guest additions but they
said that except for occasional hangups due to the extra USB latency it
should otherwise work.

Incidentally, I prefer Win 7 64 bit over the other MS offerings. XP
would have been nice, but I could never get the 64 bit version to play
properly. 32 bit and 4GB RAM is a severe limitation these days. I'll
spare you my pontifications on Windoze 8.1 and 10.

I won't touch Windows 10, not even with a 10ft pole, especially after
the lastest episode.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in news:qvij3l$va3$1
@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org:

On 2020-01-13, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?

Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift
occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced
by SATA.

no it happened in 1995 when I started using linux instead of DOS

With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

I've worn out up two W.D. Green 3TB drives in the media PC (one
new,
and one warranty replacement), switched to Purple. seems better.

What goes?

1: real operating systems like Linux and Windows NT
2: more RAM means less swapping means drives see less wear.
3: better engineering.

Yes. Think about logic too. The number of false highs and false
lows on a 5 volt TTL circuit have to be higher than the number on a
3.3 volt or other, lower voltage logic switching levels.

Feature size reduction is a 'big' thing... errr... small thing.

Makes everything smaller, including errors.

 

[whit3rd]

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 5:15:46 AM UTC-8, legg wrote:

Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as
regularly as they used to?
....
With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD
at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive.

Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011.

At a guess, the shakeout in HD manufacturers has removed some of the
time-to-market pressure on new motor/head/platter designs, and modeling
has improved enough to keep 'em spinning and sensing.

i've opened some failed HD units, and mostly the nonworking ones had power supply
shorts. An occasional enthusiastic engineer puts 13V zeners everywhere and either
the one in the power supply OR the one on the disk drive fails short. The tolerance on
motor power is HUGE, it'd be better to just accept a minor spike, but no, we gotta
spend money on a fuse and/or transzorb.

It's a bit tiresome hunting down suppliers for surface mount repair parts, but
it keeps my cost/terabyte below two-digit dollars.