OT: Whole house ventilation

Joerg · Jun 14, 2005

Hello Jim,

Here in "God's Country" we aren't bothered by cold and have lots of
glass (albeit thermo-pane) to see the natural beauty outside ;-)

Saw the weather report yesterday, 109F in Phoenix. Wow. For Rene: That's
over 40C.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Joerg · Jun 14, 2005

Hello Fred,

Hmmm- well the most readily available thru-wall installation you have in
place are the windows. Choose two windows at opposite extremes of the
first floor and fit them with filters when open- it's easy to make a
decorative frame with those pre-fabbed grills you can get anywhere-
stick a fiber filter in there.

That is one option, plus a window fan. Things is, it doesn't look great.
And when you are married that stuff kind of matters ;-)

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Joerg · Jun 14, 2005

Hello Quack,

I guess air from higher up must have less crap floating around in it.

Nah, it carries the Bay Area smog out here.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Jim Thompson · Jun 14, 2005

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:06:01 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello Jim,

Here in "God's Country" we aren't bothered by cold and have lots of
glass (albeit thermo-pane) to see the natural beauty outside ;-)

Saw the weather report yesterday, 109F in Phoenix. Wow. For Rene: That's
over 40C.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Joerg · Jun 14, 2005

Hello Keith,

The heat is on here too. It got to 89F Saturday and Sunday. ;-) The
pollen is amazing. The ground is yellow from the Maple pollen. The
cars are a mess!

Now imagine a family having their whole house fan running. Then the
stuff that you see on your car will also be on your dinner plates.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Joerg · Jun 14, 2005

Hello Spehro,

The amount of pollen is neglible compared to what's created inside,
house dust mite, dead skin particles, dandruff, pets loosing hair
and what have you

Out here pollen and kicked up sand and stuff from the outside is a lot
more than anything inside, even though one of our dogs sheds a lot.

Yabbut, some of us are not bothered by dust, dust mite excrement and
pet dander, but are bothered by pollen and tree crap.

For some people, big time.

But can't you reverse the fan, mount it upside down perhaps? Plus
add a filter? Also, during the time of the year you use screen
doors, I guess you could turn the fan off.

That would blow all the attic insulation into the house or clog it.

I like the idea of maintaining positive pressure on the house. It
would tend to make doors blow open though if they were not securely
latched.

Doors usually open to the inside so positive pressure would be an
advantage I think.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Keith Williams · Jun 14, 2005

In article <5jvta19prdit882strv354d7u1p611jk07@4ax.com>,
thegreatone@example.com says...

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:45:08 -0400, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz
wrote:

In article <avrta11ehlt3s0e0j2ua057mver9cmmu4p@4ax.com>,
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com says...
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:41:33 GMT, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello Folks,

This is electrical but quite a bit off topic. But maybe some people who
live in hot climates know:

Why are whole house ventilation systems by default "whole house fans"
that suck air out of the house? Why is there no system available at Home
Depot, Lowes or other places that blows air into the house through a
filter and then out the screen doors instead of sucking unfiltered air in?

Thing is, when you use a whole house fan you have to leave one or
several doors open with just the screens between the outside air and the
house. The result is that people regularly find enourmous amounts of
dust and pollen inside because everything gets sucked in. All it takes
is one gentle breeze through a stand of pines. Before you realize the
winds kicking up and rush inside to flip the switch to off it's too
late. Makes not sense to me.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

What, is it getting hot down there? We still have our heat on in Da
City. Lots of pollen, though; Beconase time!

The heat is on here too. It got to 89F Saturday and Sunday. ;-) The
pollen is amazing. The ground is yellow from the Maple pollen. The
cars are a mess!

89°F ?? Is that all? We're running 95°-100°F here. Spring at last
;-)

Yes, but it's a wet 89F. ;-) Wet, as in T-storms and yuck. It's
supposed to be 65F, but still humid tomorrow. The AC goes off.

--
Keith

Keith Williams · Jun 14, 2005

In article <2jEre.28453$J12.19550@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net says...

Hello Keith,

The heat is on here too. It got to 89F Saturday and Sunday. ;-) The
pollen is amazing. The ground is yellow from the Maple pollen. The
cars are a mess!

Now imagine a family having their whole house fan running. Then the
stuff that you see on your car will also be on your dinner plates.

Yes, but everything in the house would also be moldy, so the pollen

wouldn't be the worst problem.

--
Keith

Joerg · Jun 14, 2005

Hello Jim,

WHO reported 109°? It's barely hit 100° so far this year... been a
cool year ;-)

IIRC the weather guy at our local station KOVR, yesterday.

Maybe they measured it on top of a large rock on the Superstition mountains.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Joerg · Jun 14, 2005

Hello Keith,

Yes, but everything in the house would also be moldy, so the pollen
wouldn't be the worst problem.

I haven't heard much about mold around here, even from people with whole
house fans. But the dust from pines and other trees or plants can get
everywhere. Sometimes all the way into electronics such as CD players or
VCRs.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Frithiof Andreas Jensen · Jun 17, 2005

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:1cmre.591$Pa5.22@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...

Why are whole house ventilation systems by default "whole house fans"
that suck air out of the house? Why is there no system available at Home
Depot, Lowes or other places that blows air into the house through a
filter and then out the screen doors instead of sucking unfiltered air in?

Because, the "Average Consumer" *wants* a big lump mounted in the wall of
his home because that is all he is good for when installing it himself.

In Denmark we do not want "the lump" and energy is expensive so we will pipe
the air to the rooms in the house, the outgoing air goes through a
heat-exchanger and the heat pump sucks the heat out of it and uses it to
warm the incoming - in the summer, this is reversed. All the stuff goes in
the attic.

Alternatively, having no attic or a smaller house, one put the compressor
part outside, hidden round the back where the noise annoys the neighbours
more than yourself, and pibe coolant into a fan unit in the ceiling where
the heat bothers them most (livingroom/bedroom). This flow can be reversed
too.

But *nobody* kicks a whole in the wall for one of those noisy, ugly, lumpy
units that the Americans like ;-)

Toshiba and Hitachi seems to make most of those systems.

Fred Bloggs · Jun 17, 2005

Frithiof Andreas Jensen wrote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:1cmre.591$Pa5.22@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...

Why are whole house ventilation systems by default "whole house fans"
that suck air out of the house? Why is there no system available at Home
Depot, Lowes or other places that blows air into the house through a
filter and then out the screen doors instead of sucking unfiltered air in?

Because, the "Average Consumer" *wants* a big lump mounted in the wall of
his home because that is all he is good for when installing it himself.

In Denmark we do not want "the lump" and energy is expensive so we will pipe
the air to the rooms in the house, the outgoing air goes through a
heat-exchanger and the heat pump sucks the heat out of it and uses it to
warm the incoming - in the summer, this is reversed. All the stuff goes in
the attic.

Alternatively, having no attic or a smaller house, one put the compressor
part outside, hidden round the back where the noise annoys the neighbours
more than yourself, and pibe coolant into a fan unit in the ceiling where
the heat bothers them most (livingroom/bedroom). This flow can be reversed
too.

But *nobody* kicks a whole in the wall for one of those noisy, ugly, lumpy
units that the Americans like ;-)

Toshiba and Hitachi seems to make most of those systems.

Most of our whole house fans do draw air from the interior and into the
attic to be blown through the vents, and we do have systems with heat
exchange on exhaust/intake if necessary. Furthermore we are intelligent
enough to have developed ground heat exchangers in colder areas which
seems to be beyond the capability of the Danes.

John Larkin · Jun 17, 2005

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:16:34 +0200, "Frithiof Andreas Jensen"
<frithiof.jensen@die_spammer_die.ericsson.com> wrote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:1cmre.591$Pa5.22@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...

Why are whole house ventilation systems by default "whole house fans"
that suck air out of the house? Why is there no system available at Home
Depot, Lowes or other places that blows air into the house through a
filter and then out the screen doors instead of sucking unfiltered air in?

Because, the "Average Consumer" *wants* a big lump mounted in the wall of
his home because that is all he is good for when installing it himself.

In Denmark we do not want "the lump" and energy is expensive so we will pipe
the air to the rooms in the house, the outgoing air goes through a
heat-exchanger and the heat pump sucks the heat out of it and uses it to
warm the incoming - in the summer, this is reversed. All the stuff goes in
the attic.

Alternatively, having no attic or a smaller house, one put the compressor
part outside, hidden round the back where the noise annoys the neighbours
more than yourself, and pibe coolant into a fan unit in the ceiling where
the heat bothers them most (livingroom/bedroom). This flow can be reversed
too.

This is standard "central air" here. The remote unit is the air
conditioning compressor and sometimes a heat pump, although direct gas
heating is probably more common. Chillers/heaters are in the attic,
with forced-air ducting everywhere.

But *nobody* kicks a whole in the wall for one of those noisy, ugly, lumpy
units that the Americans like ;-)

In older houses, people often use a window-mounted a/c unit or two.
Noisy and inefficient, but still a blessing in places where the
humidity and the temperature both idle near 100.

The French like those silly portable air conditioners, the ones with
the hot air dump hose that you stick out the window. They're hardly
worth the effort.

In our local climate, the San Francisco peninsula, air conditioning is
not universal (essentially unknown in the city itself) and a simple
fan is all you really need to stay comfortable. Now, in the middle of
June, we leave the heat on.

John

Joerg · Jun 17, 2005

Hello John,

This is standard "central air" here. The remote unit is the air
conditioning compressor and sometimes a heat pump, although direct gas
heating is probably more common. Chillers/heaters are in the attic,
with forced-air ducting everywhere.

Thing is, this system can really give you the chills when the
electricity bill arrives ;-)

In our local climate, the San Francisco peninsula, air conditioning is
not universal (essentially unknown in the city itself) and a simple
fan is all you really need to stay comfortable. Now, in the middle of
June, we leave the heat on.

Tell me about it. Yesterday we were almost tempted to haul a bag full of
firewood in from next winter's stash. And this is the middle of June
near Sacramento, in the foothills.

Curious: Why did you call your company "Highland Technology" when you
are located in what we call the "flatlands"?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

John Perry · Jun 17, 2005

Frithiof Andreas Jensen wrote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:1cmre.591$Pa5.22@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...

Why are whole house ventilation systems by default "whole house fans"
that suck air out of the house? Why is there no system available at Home
Depot, Lowes or other places that blows air into the house through a
filter and then out the screen doors instead of sucking unfiltered air in?

When I was small and air conditioning was not yet common, even here in
Virginia, my parents used a huge window fan in one room (where I liked
to spend much of my time). This room was always uncomfortable, so I
asked my father why he did this.

The response was that if he turned the fan around so it would blow into
the room, then, yes, that room would be comfortable, but none of the
other rooms would be. With the fan blowing out, fresh air was always
coming into the other rooms with open windows, making most of the house
more comfortable. The same applies, obviously, to whole house fans,
although I've never had a house with one.

Because, the "Average Consumer" *wants* a big lump mounted in the wall of
his home because that is all he is good for when installing it himself.

But *nobody* kicks a whole in the wall for one of those noisy, ugly, lumpy
units that the Americans like ;-)

Well, I did, a number of years ago, in the 1930's era house I used to
live in. At the time, I couldn't afford the 10X price differential to
install central air conditioning, ducting, wiring, ...

I still think I did the right thing

.

John Perry

John Perry · Jun 17, 2005

Joerg wrote:

Hello John,
...
Curious: Why did you call your company "Highland Technology" when you
are located in what we call the "flatlands"?

....Because he started up in Colorado. (Hi, John

.

John Perry

John Larkin · Jun 17, 2005

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:48:46 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello John,

This is standard "central air" here. The remote unit is the air
conditioning compressor and sometimes a heat pump, although direct gas
heating is probably more common. Chillers/heaters are in the attic,
with forced-air ducting everywhere.

Thing is, this system can really give you the chills when the
electricity bill arrives ;-)

In our local climate, the San Francisco peninsula, air conditioning is
not universal (essentially unknown in the city itself) and a simple
fan is all you really need to stay comfortable. Now, in the middle of
June, we leave the heat on.

Tell me about it. Yesterday we were almost tempted to haul a bag full of
firewood in from next winter's stash. And this is the middle of June
near Sacramento, in the foothills.

Auburn? Grass Valley?

Curious: Why did you call your company "Highland Technology" when you
are located in what we call the "flatlands"?

Don't be a vertical chauvinist. Our company is a full 275 feet above
sea level, and I park 400 vertical feet above that (the hike is my
daily exercize.) As to the name, we started in my garage on Highland
Avenue.

Twin Peaks (aka Twin Bleeps) is about a mile away; that's our EMI test
facility.

It's hot today: 62F so far.

John

Jim Thompson · Jun 17, 2005

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:33:51 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:48:46 GMT, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello John,

This is standard "central air" here. The remote unit is the air
conditioning compressor and sometimes a heat pump, although direct gas
heating is probably more common. Chillers/heaters are in the attic,
with forced-air ducting everywhere.

Thing is, this system can really give you the chills when the
electricity bill arrives ;-)

In our local climate, the San Francisco peninsula, air conditioning is
not universal (essentially unknown in the city itself) and a simple
fan is all you really need to stay comfortable. Now, in the middle of
June, we leave the heat on.

Tell me about it. Yesterday we were almost tempted to haul a bag full of
firewood in from next winter's stash. And this is the middle of June
near Sacramento, in the foothills.

Auburn? Grass Valley?

Curious: Why did you call your company "Highland Technology" when you
are located in what we call the "flatlands"?

Don't be a vertical chauvinist. Our company is a full 275 feet above
sea level, and I park 400 vertical feet above that (the hike is my
daily exercize.) As to the name, we started in my garage on Highland
Avenue.

Twin Peaks (aka Twin Bleeps) is about a mile away; that's our EMI test
facility.

It's hot today: 62F so far.

John

Monitor in swimming pool equipment area, 3-side-walled-in, so not much
circulation, just the sun beating down, is presently showing 111°F ;-)

So it's probably around 100°F true air temperature.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Joerg · Jun 17, 2005

Hello John,

Curious: Why did you call your company "Highland Technology" when you
are located in what we call the "flatlands"?

...Because he started up in Colorado. (Hi, John .

Ok, that explains it. Compared to folks in Colorado even I feel like a
flatlander.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Joerg · Jun 17, 2005

Hello John,

Auburn? Grass Valley?

Cameron Park, about 30 miles east of Sacramento on Highway 50. About
1400 to 1500 feet.

Curious: Why did you call your company "Highland Technology" when you
are located in what we call the "flatlands"?

Don't be a vertical chauvinist. Our company is a full 275 feet above
sea level, and I park 400 vertical feet above that (the hike is my
daily exercize.) As to the name, we started in my garage on Highland
Avenue.

Some of the best businesses were started in garages.

Twin Peaks (aka Twin Bleeps) is about a mile away; that's our EMI test
facility.

Ours is a channel 29 tower with Spanish language programming. You can
receive a clear picture on a disconnected coax connector. Then there are
the occasional big iron freighters flying overhead into Mather, just
clearing our little hills here.

It's hot today: 62F so far.

We are about 70F and that's going to be the high for today. The wood
stack got a soaking yesterday so no crackling fire place :-(

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

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