OT: Wheeeeee! New PSpice Benchmarks

Ken Smith · Aug 24, 2004

In article <7a2ki0lp57pjdi710cfu940rh1k20ji4hk@4ax.com>,
Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:34:08 +0000 (UTC), the renowned
kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) wrote:

Intel made the 8086, 186, 286, 386, 486, and then the Penti-uuuummm. It
took longer but they still managed to blow their leadership.

They have something like 83% of the PC market. In a healthy
competitive market, the leader typically has more like 40%.

They are behind on the technology eventually the public may figure it out
and start switching.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge

Kevin Aylward · Aug 24, 2004

Active8 wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:48:00 GMT, Kevin Aylward wrote:

snip
What clone? Whose clone.

I'm not allowed to talk yet until the official release, but it has a
PSpice Schematics lool-alike for the frontend, plus can handle
device-size library binning which PSpice can't do.

I hate it when good things dissapear or obviously useful things just
aren't implemented. So all Orcad will be good for is Layout. plbht.

library binning? ...SuperSpice is already released...

What's library binning?

Binning is when there are a range of models that cover ranges of sizes.
e.g.

..model model_test.1 nmos(lmax=1u, lmin=1u wmax=1u wmin=1u)
..model model_test.2 nmos(lmax=1u, lmin=1u wmax=5u wmin=2u)
..model model_test.3 nmos(lmax=10u, lmin=3u wmax=5u wmin=2u)

etc...

The software looks at all the models with the same extension, and picks
the one that satisfies the schematic sizes. As noted, SS supports this
feature. Its actually a bit more complicated, as ech model has 3
versions strong, weak and nominal. When SS does worst case, it
automaticaly selects the correct wc model and bin. If a wc model dosnt
exist, it uses typical default wc models.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

Kevin Aylward · Aug 24, 2004

Ken Smith wrote:

In article <7a2ki0lp57pjdi710cfu940rh1k20ji4hk@4ax.com>,
Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:34:08 +0000 (UTC), the renowned
kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) wrote:

Intel made the 8086, 186, 286, 386, 486, and then the
Penti-uuuummm. It took longer but they still managed to blow their
leadership.

They have something like 83% of the PC market. In a healthy
competitive market, the leader typically has more like 40%.

They are behind on the technology eventually the public may figure it
out and start switching.

No chance. "He who is first, wins".

Harvard, coke, kellogs, birds eye etc...

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

/* frank */ · Aug 24, 2004

Dopo dura riflessione, Jim Thompson ha scritto :

2.175 times faster !!!

Faster time - surely - isn't due to 64 bit:
nor WinXP neither pspice.exe are 64 bit

Keith Williams · Aug 24, 2004

In article <RLAWc.221544$28.27389@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk says...

Ken Smith wrote:
In article <7a2ki0lp57pjdi710cfu940rh1k20ji4hk@4ax.com>,
Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:34:08 +0000 (UTC), the renowned
kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) wrote:

Intel made the 8086, 186, 286, 386, 486, and then the
Penti-uuuummm. It took longer but they still managed to blow their
leadership.

They have something like 83% of the PC market. In a healthy
competitive market, the leader typically has more like 40%.

They are behind on the technology eventually the public may figure it
out and start switching.

No chance. "He who is first, wins".

Harvard, coke, kellogs, birds eye etc...

X86-64 (a.k.a. AMD64 ;-)

--
Keith

Jim Thompson · Aug 24, 2004

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 05:55:54 GMT, "Kevin Aylward"
<salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:

Active8 wrote:
[snip]
What's library binning?

Binning is when there are a range of models that cover ranges of sizes.
e.g.

.model model_test.1 nmos(lmax=1u, lmin=1u wmax=1u wmin=1u)
.model model_test.2 nmos(lmax=1u, lmin=1u wmax=5u wmin=2u)
.model model_test.3 nmos(lmax=10u, lmin=3u wmax=5u wmin=2u)

etc...

The software looks at all the models with the same extension, and picks
the one that satisfies the schematic sizes. As noted, SS supports this
feature. Its actually a bit more complicated, as ech model has 3
versions strong, weak and nominal. When SS does worst case, it
automaticaly selects the correct wc model and bin. If a wc model dosnt
exist, it uses typical default wc models.

Kevin Aylward
[snip]

While PSpice doesn't internally support binning, my oldest son wrote a
tool for me that automatically processes the netlist to accomplish
binning.

Nice to have a C++ expert in the family! Unfortunately he's so good
that he recently became software kingpin at the largest
call-center/telemarketing organization in the US :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Active8 · Aug 24, 2004

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:46:25 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 05:55:54 GMT, "Kevin Aylward"
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:

Active8 wrote:
[snip]
What's library binning?

Binning is when there are a range of models that cover ranges of sizes.
e.g.

.model model_test.1 nmos(lmax=1u, lmin=1u wmax=1u wmin=1u)
.model model_test.2 nmos(lmax=1u, lmin=1u wmax=5u wmin=2u)
.model model_test.3 nmos(lmax=10u, lmin=3u wmax=5u wmin=2u)

etc...

The software looks at all the models with the same extension, and picks
the one that satisfies the schematic sizes. As noted, SS supports this
feature. Its actually a bit more complicated, as ech model has 3
versions strong, weak and nominal. When SS does worst case, it
automaticaly selects the correct wc model and bin. If a wc model dosnt
exist, it uses typical default wc models.

Kevin Aylward
[snip]

While PSpice doesn't internally support binning, my oldest son wrote a
tool for me that automatically processes the netlist to accomplish
binning.

Nice to have a C++ expert in the family! Unfortunately he's so good
that he recently became software kingpin at the largest
call-center/telemarketing organization in the US :-(

...Jim Thompson

Who would that be, Convergys? Just a guess.
--
Best Regards,
Mike

Jim Thompson · Aug 24, 2004

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:48:16 -0400, Active8 <reply2group@ndbbm.net>
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:46:25 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

[snip]
While PSpice doesn't internally support binning, my oldest son wrote a
tool for me that automatically processes the netlist to accomplish
binning.

Nice to have a C++ expert in the family! Unfortunately he's so good
that he recently became software kingpin at the largest
call-center/telemarketing organization in the US :-(

...Jim Thompson

Who would that be, Convergys? Just a guess.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Active8 · Aug 24, 2004

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:24:47 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

<snip>

Who would that be, Convergys? Just a guess.

Phase2

...Jim Thompson

Oh. Hey. TNX for the benchmark.
--
Best Regards,
Mike

Ken Smith · Aug 24, 2004

In article <mn.c1f97d4831c16dbd.15428@spamyourselfagainstawall>,
/* frank */ <__frank__@despammed.com> wrote:

Dopo dura riflessione, Jim Thompson ha scritto :

2.175 times faster !!!

Faster time - surely - isn't due to 64 bit:
nor WinXP neither pspice.exe are 64 bit

You may be wrong. A 64 bit bus can transfer more instructions per cycle
and move a "double" in one stroke. Since the software has to do a lot of
both, it could be the 64 bit nature of the machine that helped to gain the
speed.

It could also be like the new navigation system we just installed. They
got a 25% increase in performance just by changing to a synthetic oil on
the relative bearings.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge

Keith Williams · Aug 24, 2004

In article <cgfl2e$6k5$1@blue.rahul.net>, kensmith@green.rahul.net
says...

In article <mn.c1f97d4831c16dbd.15428@spamyourselfagainstawall>,
/* frank */ <__frank__@despammed.com> wrote:
Dopo dura riflessione, Jim Thompson ha scritto :

2.175 times faster !!!

Faster time - surely - isn't due to 64 bit:
nor WinXP neither pspice.exe are 64 bit

You may be wrong. A 64 bit bus can transfer more instructions per cycle
and move a "double" in one stroke. Since the software has to do a lot of
both, it could be the 64 bit nature of the machine that helped to gain the
speed.

Even the lowly Pentium-1 (P5) had a 64bit bus. Memory can only be
referenced a cache-line/sector at a time. You want one bit? You're
getting 255 more where that one came from. ;-)

It could also be like the new navigation system we just installed. They
got a 25% increase in performance just by changing to a synthetic oil on
the relative bearings.

The difference is quite likely do to the integrated DRAM controllers on
the Athlon64/Opteron. The memory latency is significantly less than it
would be with a northbridge attached memory system.

--
Keith

John Larkin · Aug 24, 2004

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:46:25 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Nice to have a C++ expert in the family! Unfortunately he's so good
that he recently became software kingpin at the largest
call-center/telemarketing organization in the US :-(

Another one lost to The Dark Side.

John

Jim Thompson · Aug 24, 2004

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:10:26 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:46:25 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Nice to have a C++ expert in the family! Unfortunately he's so good
that he recently became software kingpin at the largest
call-center/telemarketing organization in the US :-(

Another one lost to The Dark Side.

John

But he's a good source of information about the legalities of
telemarketing.

Unfortunately most of the telemarketers don't follow the rules. My
son's company does, enforced by his software that forces no dialing
followed by a hangup.

My son advises talking to telemarketers to determine who they are,
then file a complaint.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Spehro Pefhany · Aug 24, 2004

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:10:26 -0700, the renowned John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:46:25 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Nice to have a C++ expert in the family! Unfortunately he's so good
that he recently became software kingpin at the largest
call-center/telemarketing organization in the US :-(

Another one lost to The Dark Side.

John

Which dark side, telemarketing or C++?

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Andreas Hadler · Aug 24, 2004

Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:10:26 -0700, the renowned John Larkin
jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

Another one lost to The Dark Side.

Which dark side, telemarketing or C++?

I don't consider C++ as dark side, it's just that C++ calls for the
dark side of programmers. It's not the gun, that's evils - it may be
the one who uses the gun.

Andreas
--
If C++ has taught me one thing, it's this: Just because the system is
consistent doesn't mean it's not the work of Satan.
- Andrew Plotkin

Active8 · Aug 24, 2004

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:11:07 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:10:26 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:46:25 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Nice to have a C++ expert in the family! Unfortunately he's so good
that he recently became software kingpin at the largest
call-center/telemarketing organization in the US :-(

Another one lost to The Dark Side.

John

But he's a good source of information about the legalities of
telemarketing.

Unfortunately most of the telemarketers don't follow the rules. My
son's company does, enforced by his software that forces no dialing
followed by a hangup.

You mean no dialing following a hangup. Prob is that some companies
who *do* follow the rules have customers who want them to schedule a
callback if they don't get the whole pitch out, otherwise "not
interested" means just that. I'm in a no rebuttal state so "not
interested" is supposed to end the call no matter what, but
sometimes they'll ask a question. Sometimes the telejock will get
pissed off and sched it for a few minutes later.

My son advises talking to telemarketers to determine who they are,
then file a complaint.

...Jim Thompson

Maybe it's at inetjunkbusters.com... there's a script you read to
the telejock to get the info you need and f*ck up the whole call for
him/her. It's funny, really.

I'm on the PA DNC list, but Verizon, Sprint, etc. with whom I do biz
can still call until I ask to go on their DNC list.

You can also google TCPA for the fed laws. Telecommunications
Consumer Protection Act.

BTW, Convergys... bad guess. They do outsourced tech support, not
telejockery. Hmm... telejocularity, it's been.
--
Best Regards,
Mike

Spehro Pefhany · Aug 24, 2004

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:33:39 -0400, the renowned Active8
<reply2group@ndbbm.net> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:11:07 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:10:26 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:46:25 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Nice to have a C++ expert in the family! Unfortunately he's so good
that he recently became software kingpin at the largest
call-center/telemarketing organization in the US :-(

Another one lost to The Dark Side.

John

But he's a good source of information about the legalities of
telemarketing.

Unfortunately most of the telemarketers don't follow the rules. My
son's company does, enforced by his software that forces no dialing
followed by a hangup.

You mean no dialing following a hangup.

I think the first way was correct. A lot of the telemarketers have
machines that autodial more calls than their people can handle. If you
pick it up and the machine reconizes a "Hello" there is a slight delay
while it transfers the call to a human or a hangup if there is no
human available. I generally use that opportunity to hang up myself,
as real people always answer a "hello" very quickly. The message on
our home answering machine is short enough that it is often mistaken
by the calling machine for a human answering, so it tends to waste
their time (and it's a one touch delete). There's one charity that
leaves the same message every month "hello?", "hello?" .... "click".
Sometimes *two* machines will go one for a minute or more talking to
each other. Some companies have implemented automated questionaires
with their (soon to be former) customers.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Jim Thompson · Aug 24, 2004

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:33:39 -0400, Active8 <reply2group@ndbbm.net>
wrote:

[snip]

BTW, Convergys... bad guess. They do outsourced tech support, not
telejockery. Hmm... telejocularity, it's been.

So does Phase2. They were also capable of completely taking over the
telephone operator's functions when they went on strike a few months
back. So seamlessly that it wasn't even noticed by the customers...
there wasn't even a few seconds of dead time.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Active8 · Aug 24, 2004

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:36:32 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:33:39 -0400, Active8 <reply2group@ndbbm.net
wrote:

[snip]

BTW, Convergys... bad guess. They do outsourced tech support, not
telejockery. Hmm... telejocularity, it's been.

So does Phase2. They were also capable of completely taking over the
telephone operator's functions when they went on strike a few months
back. So seamlessly that it wasn't even noticed by the customers...
there wasn't even a few seconds of dead time.

...Jim Thompson

Oooh.. bet that cost the telco. But they'll get it back by
overcharging everyone a few pennies here and there, just like they
do to recoupe lost revs from fraud.
--
Best Regards,
Mike

Rich Grise · Aug 24, 2004

Active8 wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:46:25 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
Nice to have a C++ expert in the family! Unfortunately he's so good
that he recently became software kingpin at the largest
call-center/telemarketing organization in the US :-(

...Jim Thompson

Who would that be, Convergys? Just a guess.

Active, I'm disappointed in you. Howcome you're not ragging on Mr.
Thompson for having a favorite son who's a professional annoyer?

Cheers!
Rich

OT: Wheeeeee! New PSpice Benchmarks

Ken Smith

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/* frank */

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