OT: Trump's Visit

[Tom Gardner]

On 01/06/19 01:09, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Wed, 29 May 2019 18:56:18 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:

Giving GB even more time to make up their mind was a bad thing to do.

I agree with you there. But the fact that the Brexit Party (formed only 7
weeks ago!) is *already* the largest single party in the European
Parliament should tell everyone that regardless of what the politicians
are doing, the overwhelming majority of British voters still want OUT of
Europe and are getting increasingly pissed off with the total lack of
progress.

The *majority* of that is because UKIP collapsed and their
votes went to Brexit party.

Conservative and Labour collapsed, with a small proportion
going to Brexit, and the majority going to the remain
LibDems.

Conclusion: people abandoning Torys and Labour are voting
for "remain" parties.

 

[whit3rd]

On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 5:41:21 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 29 May 2019 18:56:18 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de
wrote:
[about Brexit]
The problem is when you want to be out, but keep the advantages as if
you were in.

What advantages? Lots of successful countries are not in the EU.

Personal advantages, like no import duty on Scotch. The Scots hated
that, because their favorite tipple got a major price hike, when the
competing EU purchasers outbid the locals. The Germans were
happy, though.

Retiring to a different country has advantages, too.

Success as a country isn't easy to define; Greece, though, could have gone
bankrupt if the rest of the EU weren't open to supporting them...

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

On 6/3/2019 16:41, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 01/06/19 01:09, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 29 May 2019 18:56:18 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:

Giving GB even more time to make up their mind was a bad thing to do.

I agree with you there. But the fact that the Brexit Party (formed only 7
weeks ago!) is *already* the largest single party in the European
Parliament should tell everyone that regardless of what the politicians
are doing, the overwhelming majority of British voters still want OUT of
Europe and are getting increasingly pissed off with the total lack of
progress.

The  *majority* of that is because UKIP collapsed and their
votes went to Brexit party.

Conservative and Labour collapsed, with a small proportion
going to Brexit, and the majority going to the remain
LibDems.

Conclusion: people abandoning Torys and Labour are voting
for "remain" parties.

I don't think there will be a Brexit. Both Trump and Putin are
fighting tooth and nail to have it of course, weakening the largest
economy in the world - the EU - is understandably high on their
agenda (not so sure why Trump has it there but he clearly does).
The queen has a kingdom of hers to protect so it is understandable
why she wants that, too (it would have taken a word of hers to
stop it, leavers would have just listened).

Yet there is what is good for everybody else in the EU and the UK
(leavers included).
Which makes it so hard even for those three to get brexit over
the line. They still might - imposing a no deal looks in their
power, especially if they manage to put Johnson at no. 5 - and I
suppose dealing with a revolting kingdom would be the preferred
option to a lost one.
But it may not be that easy, it will be an interesting few months.

Dimiter

 

On Sunday, May 26, 2019 at 9:02:30 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

Trump goes over to the UK shortly and will have a very well-deserved
opportunity to gloat over the demise of the British prime minister.

He told her exactly how to deal with the EU. A world class negotiator and
deal-maker gave her free, priceless advice and the stupid cow completely
ignored it. She thought she knew better! Unbelievable self-delusion.

I do hope he takes a moment out just to say "Sorry, Theresa, but I told
you so." Oh how I'd love to see her face if that were to happen (and I
pray to god it will).




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[Tom Gardner]

On 03/06/19 19:28, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

On 6/3/2019 16:41, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 01/06/19 01:09, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 29 May 2019 18:56:18 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:

Giving GB even more time to make up their mind was a bad thing to do.

I agree with you there. But the fact that the Brexit Party (formed only 7
weeks ago!) is *already* the largest single party in the European
Parliament should tell everyone that regardless of what the politicians
are doing, the overwhelming majority of British voters still want OUT of
Europe and are getting increasingly pissed off with the total lack of
progress.

The  *majority* of that is because UKIP collapsed and their
votes went to Brexit party.

Conservative and Labour collapsed, with a small proportion
going to Brexit, and the majority going to the remain
LibDems.

Conclusion: people abandoning Torys and Labour are voting
for "remain" parties.


I don't think there will be a Brexit. Both Trump and Putin are
fighting tooth and nail to have it of course, weakening the largest
economy in the world - the EU - is understandably high on their
agenda (not so sure why Trump has it there but he clearly does).
The queen has a kingdom of hers to protect so it is understandable
why she wants that, too (it would have taken a word of hers to
stop it, leavers would have just listened).

Yet there is what is good for everybody else in the EU and the UK
(leavers included).
Which makes it so hard even for those three to get brexit over
the line. They still might - imposing a no deal looks in their
power, especially if they manage to put Johnson at no. 5 - and I
suppose dealing with a revolting kingdom would be the preferred
option to a lost one.
But it may not be that easy, it will be an interesting few months.

That's all very rational.

Unfortunately half the country argues emotionally, the
other half rationally (the Myers-Brigg thinking vs
feeling personality trait). There is no cross-over between
those people - each discussion point whizzes straight
past the other.

Then we get onto politicians, who are always self-centered.
In this case both main parties are visibly more interested
in keeping their party together than they are in doing
what's best for the country. Plus,of course, being re-elected.

That combination scares the shit out of many people, and
is the main reason why the two main parties are haemorrhaging
support to the centre (remain) and extreme (brexit) parties.

 

[JM]

On 01/06/2019 02:33, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:

Am 01.06.19 um 02:09 schrieb Cursitor Doom:
On Wed, 29 May 2019 18:56:18 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:

Giving GB even more time to make up their mind was a bad thing to do.



The parties that definitely want to stay in have 3% more than the Brexit
party. Not that _WE_ wanted GB to stay in; they have always been
cherry picking and an obstacle for improvements. They have not yet
recognized that they can no longer send some cannon boats to China
to make the emperor accept opium as a currency.

Are you taking about the UK EU results? I saw this 3% claim on the BBC,
but it assumed that Conservative and Labour were anti-brexit, which of
course is bullshit.

Across the UK anti brexit parties (Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, Change UK and
Plaid Cymru) received 40.4% of the vote, so approx 59% of the vote went
to pro brexit parties.

In Scotland however, approx 62% of the vote went to anti brexit parties
(which was almost exactly the same as the Scottish vote to stay in the
EU in 2016).

Support in England/Wales for leaving the EU appears to have increased in
the last 3 years, while Scotland continues to wish to remain.

There is only one solution - Scotland votes to dissolve the Union.