OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??

John Woodgate · Mar 29, 2004

I read in sci.electronics.design that Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-
edge.com> wrote (in <bec993c8.0403290610.26ef3d8b@posting.google.com&gt

about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??', on Mon, 29 Mar
2004:

Read the New York Times, December 14 2003: "PowerPoint Makes you Dumb".

Wrong! Dumb use of PowerPoint gets you in the fertilizer.

The Colubmia Accident Investigation Board blamed puff-piece powerpoint
presentation as part of the cause of the Shuttle Columbia disaster.

Yes: the *presenters* shouldn't have relied on it.

When I do a presentation with PowerPoint, I always supply a hand-out
text as well as copies of the slides. The latter just act as reminders
of what I think are the important points in the text.

Of course, there is a second booby-trap; you may hand out a text that
gives much more detail than you PP slides, but you can't make the so-
and-sos read it!

Some of you have seen copies of my hand-out for the 'Earth Loops'
presentation.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

John Woodgate · Mar 29, 2004

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <vbhg60ptcalg6hmt7puni9ud15rj1ooqo1@
4ax.com&gt

about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??', on
Mon, 29 Mar 2004:

When they call my name I think I'll say I need to go to the restroom
first ;-)

You can reasonably claim, at 64 years, to be sufficiently deaf as not to
be able to hear the evidence. Emphasize this by not answering the first
time you are called!
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Jim Thompson · Mar 29, 2004

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:10:16 +0100, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <vbhg60ptcalg6hmt7puni9ud15rj1ooqo1@
4ax.com&gt about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??', on
Mon, 29 Mar 2004:
When they call my name I think I'll say I need to go to the restroom
first ;-)

You can reasonably claim, at 64 years, to be sufficiently deaf as not to
be able to hear the evidence. Emphasize this by not answering the first
time you are called!

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Jeff Liebermann · Mar 29, 2004

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:53:49 +0100, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

Yes: the *presenters* shouldn't have relied on it.

Oh baloney. Do you seriously think that anyone at NASA understood the
implications of the impact of foam with the carbon-carbon wing
surface? I recall the video of the simulated test that finally
demonstrated the problem. Everyone, from the commentator, to the
participants, were suprised. Prior to the demonstration, it was just
one of thousands of theoretical problems that might be worth
considering. By the time the issue gets to the PowerPOint stage, it's
diluted, summarized, merged with other issues, and bulleted into
insignifigance. It's amazing how many problems just go away if you
ignore them. It's equally amazing how many of these ignored minor
problems suddenly become serious after a disaster. I don't see any
way that a more coherent PowerPoint presentation, or even a
traditional engineering briefing (brain storming session), would have
prevented the Columbia disaster.

When I do a presentation with PowerPoint, I always supply a hand-out
text as well as copies of the slides. The latter just act as reminders
of what I think are the important points in the text.

Of course, there is a second booby-trap; you may hand out a text that
gives much more detail than you PP slides, but you can't make the so-
and-sos read it!

I used to attend the annual meeting of the SCO Unix dealers at the
local multiversity. Four days of almost continuous PowerPoint
presentations. There were printed copies of the PowerPoint slides for
those that had schedule conflicts and couldn't attend. In the past,
there was considerable variation in technique, which made a collection
of printed PowerPoint slides rather odd looking. To solve this
non-problem, the last few years had a standard format. The result was
terminal boredom after 4 days (and nights) of continuous PowerPoint.
Even those speakers that detested PowerPoint, and were capable of
doing better, were dragged to a crawl by the necessity of "organizing"
everything to the speed of a PowerPoint slide.

A few speakers snuck in "supplimentary" material, which actually
included about 400 words per page instead of PowerPoints 15-40 words.
These, I saved. The copies of the slides, I tossed.

When I give my song-n-dance presentations, I always hand out printed
"technical details". For techy demos, I sometimes do a web page
crammed full of URL's that are difficult to type, and either post it
to my web pile, or deliver it on a "business card" type cdrom. I
don't do PowerPoint presentations often and have never passed out
copies of the presentation. If anything, a printed version encourages
the attendees to fall asleep on the asumption that they could always
dig through the paper copies to see what they've missed. It also
encourages them to anticipate what I'm going to say, which creates an
atmosphere of "I've heard this crap before" attitude, followed by a
comatose audience.

Anyway, I advise against printed copies. If you must pass them out,
do so AFTER the presentation.

Some of you have seen copies of my hand-out for the 'Earth Loops'
presentation.

That's "ground loops" in the states. If the earth was flat, you
wouldn't have to worry about looping around it.

--
Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
(831)421-6491 pgr (831)336-2558 home
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us jeffl@cruzio.com

John Woodgate · Mar 29, 2004

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote (in <dgjg60tmamp91g13jj7m8t9lo6buh6
htdf@4ax.com&gt

about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??',
on Mon, 29 Mar 2004:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:53:49 +0100, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

Yes: the *presenters* shouldn't have relied on it.

Oh baloney.

Misunderstanding. I'm talking about the principle of trying to put over
ANY complex issue using PowerPoint alone.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Roger Gt · Mar 29, 2004

X-No-Archive: yes
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:6vig605gsj8vua25p41p727g5c06tj2vh4@4ax.com...
: On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:10:16 +0100, John Woodgate
: <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:
:
: >I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
: ><thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in
<vbhg60ptcalg6hmt7puni9ud15rj1ooqo1@
: >4ax.com&gt

about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn
Quickly??', on
: >Mon, 29 Mar 2004:
: >>When they call my name I think I'll say I need to go to the
restroom
: >>first ;-)
: >
: >You can reasonably claim, at 64 years, to be sufficiently deaf
as not to
: >be able to hear the evidence. Emphasize this by not answering
the first
: >time you are called!
:
: That's actually an interesting point. My left ear is
about -20dB.
: The excuse works with my wife ;-)
: ...Jim Thompson

I found that looking puzzled and asking them to repeat each
question and deigning I have a hearing problem works too.... I
am only tone deaf in my left ear.

Wouldn't mind serving on a serious case.
I seem to be called for things like drunk driving cases where the
whole thing is the guy was arrested, found NOT to have been
drinking and by going to trial they shield the officer from a
false arrest suit!

Charles Edmondson · Mar 29, 2004

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:25:41 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

I just bought PowerPoint upon insistence by a *very large* potential
client.

The bigger they are, the more they change their mind. Be wary.

Any recommendations for best book to get?

Book? Is that one of those collections of cellulose sheets with out
of date scribbling on both sides? I thought they were only found in
museums.

Perhaps an online tutorial would be more useful:
http://www.lgta.org/ppt7/
http://www.actden.com/pp/
http://www.tutorgig.com/searchweb.jsp?keywords=Learn+Powerpoint
There a bunch more online. Computers are best learned on a computer.

Incidentally, I detest PowerPoint type presentations. There's nothing
more boring than a semi-darkened room, and listening to the presenter
read exactly what's on the screen. I usually have to bring a bag of
rubber bands to the presentation in order to get the speakers
attention because he can't see me in the dark and is ALWAYS looking at
the screen instead of the semi-visible audience.

I have to give presentations about once a month. I never have used or
plan to use PowerPoint. I'm a fairly good speaker and don't need
PowerPoint bullet lists to reinforce my points. I talk, sometimes
yell, deal with the usual interruptions, and turn my presentations
into an audience participatory affair. The problem is that my
audience typically expects some kind of multi-media extravaganza and a
high level of entertainment value. Therefore, I use lots of digital
photos, of real devices, systems, sketches, humor, and failures. I
explain what's on the screen, and why it's important. The idea is to
show them something that they've never seen before, that will hold
their attention, attract their curiousity, and get them to think about
what I'm pitching. PowerPoint slides with 4 bullets and animated
distractions are cute, but don't do any of the aformentioned.

I guess PowerPoint has its place. It can compensate for lousy public
speaking skills by forcing the audience to read the screen *INSTEAD*
of listening to the blundering speaker. There's also no better way to
display graphs, trends, statistics, and other forms of science
fiction.

Recently, I had to give a song-n-dance at a hospital. The meeting
room had the projection system locked up. By the time we found
someone with a key, I also discovered that my ancient laptop had
crapped out. However, the meeting room also had 4ea large television
sets in various conspicuous locations (it was also used as a training
room). So, I also had my presentation on my digital camera (Canon
A70). I plugged the video output into the VCR, figured out how to get
the TV's running, and ran the whole presentation using my digital
camera. The audience was more impressed with my digital camera trick
than with my song-n-dance, but that was to be expected. I also had a
ring binder with b&w prints of my slides that I could have passed
around in case the digital camera trick failed. The moral is to NOT
rely totally on computers, PowerPoint, board room electronics, and
security remembering to unlock the projection cabinet.

Hi Jim,

As a 'seasoned' PP presenter, I know that once you do one or two, it
gets pretty easy. What you do depends on a couple of things...

First, is it a live presentation, or going to be 'canned' for later
perusal? These are a lot better either live, or just recorded. A
recorded live presentation is one of the most boring things I have ever
encountered!

First, basic rules. #1 - Unless you have visually impaired people in
your audience DO NOT READ THE SLIDES! Your audience can do that. Your
job is to tell them what they mean, and apply them to their needs. Even
if you have visually impaired participants, a quick reference to it is
all that is needed.
#2 - Allow 30 seconds per slide. That is what you should average on
them. If you take longer, break up the slide. If you take shorter
amounts of time, combine them...

An interesting idea is the use of notes. You can add notes below the
slide that you are working on, and if you look in your print setup, you
can print the notes with your slides. This lets you have a much more
detailed explanation of what is presented on your slide in your
handouts, and lets you have a much more useful presentation...

--
Charlie
--
Edmondson Engineering
Unique Solutions to Unusual Problems

The Real Andy · Mar 29, 2004

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:nlhb60dr9cq9l2p2icut2bmn1gnm19i0mu@4ax.com...

I just bought PowerPoint upon insistence by a *very large* potential
client.

Any recommendations for best book to get?

Thanks!

PP is a very good for sales presentations (not much detail) and that is
about it. One bonus is that nearly everyone has a copy, so you know that if
distributed, it can be read. Learning is like any modern piece of software,
use the sparse help resources and google groups. More to the point, just get
out and play with it.

I am just about to install and learn .net 2003, wish me luck. Hopefully
there is not that much difference between 2002.

Jim Thompson · Mar 29, 2004

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:04:47 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:53:15 +0000, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Genome <Genome@nothere.com> wrote
(in <Chk9c.10$BR1.7@newsfe3-win.server.ntli.net&gt about 'PowerPoint??
Best Book to Learn Quickly??', on Sat, 27 Mar 2004:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:nlhb60dr9cq9l2p2icut2bmn1gnm19i0mu@4ax.com...
| I just bought PowerPoint upon insistence by a *very large* potential
| client.
|
| Thanks!
|
| ...Jim Thompson

Powerpoint is highly unreccomended. You should not have bought it you
should have requested that they lend you a copy.

At the same time you should have requested that they provide some
example presentations given by users within the company.

Having reviewed the material provided you will have gained a basic idea
about the standard powerpoint presentation.

At this point you will be able to assemble a number of slides from your
latest holiday, pick up your projector and screen and wag it.

Unfortunately you will be caught out by virtue of the fact that your
'powerpoint presentation' is marginally more interesting than the usual
fair.

And that's using your holiday snaps..... you know, the shit you post
here along with temperature/humidity/snow updates.

DNA

You deserve a medium-sized LOL for that.

Good idea! I'll put a picture of the owl in there ;-)

...Jim Thompson

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Winfield Hill · Mar 29, 2004

Jim Thompson wrote...

And I *did* too. Put in a slide labeled "Company Mascot".

Then you better feed him, maybe one of your house mice?

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com

Jim Thompson · Mar 29, 2004

On 29 Mar 2004 15:27:20 -0800, Winfield Hill
<Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

And I *did* too. Put in a slide labeled "Company Mascot".

Then you better feed him, maybe one of your house mice?

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Rex · Mar 30, 2004

I think you techie types are missing the Point of PP.

Its not "Power Thought" or "Power Message", its "Power Point". Get to
the Point. Don't distract us with too much information. Here are some
tips...

Every slide should have a big graphic (picture). Keep explanation to one
or two lines. Look for information that will be stimulating in some way;
the more stimulating or confrontational, the more slides you may want to
use for that topic -- but don't push it. Give them a punch not a
pummeling.

Try to cover all the important topics, but don't distract the audience
by devoting too much time to confusing details. Make up your mind what
is important and focus on that.

After reviewing all the information you want to present, go back and
review what is the most stimulating or confrontational in your material
-- or even what could be construed, with a certain jaded slant, to be
so.

Now take the other boring slides in your presentation and add one line
at the end of those slides telling the audience that you are going to
tell them something good later -- don't be specific but be provocative.

Take the very most stimulating slide and move it near the end. Sprinkle
a couple other sort-of interesting slides and insert them randomly, but
not too near the start. Be sure to add the one-line tags into other
slides where you hint about these other later slides, at least several
slides before you get to the real slide. Adding teaser lines for the
most cryptically enticing subject in *multiple* slides is good,
particularly if the target slide will be far away. Don't worry about the
content of the real slide that the lines are teasing about -- it should
usually contain no more information than the other slides in the
presentation.

Keep them thinking. Maybe there will be so little information in a
target slide that they will say in retrospect, "was that it?", "did I
miss something?", or perhaps (even better), "where was that thing I was
waiting for?", "did I miss it?".

Some may think that this sort of disappointment would be off-putting,
but, in fact, it makes them go back and review all the material that
they did recognize and look to see where they went wrong. Your key
points may be reprocessed several times.

Ooops, I'm sorry. My bad. That description was actually how to do the TV
news.

But hell, it is proven technique, and its not that much different from a
good Power Point presentation, is it?

Paul Hovnanian P.E. · Mar 30, 2004

Jim Thompson wrote:

I just bought PowerPoint upon insistence by a *very large* potential
client.

Any recommendations for best book to get?

Thanks!

Here's an interesting PowerPoint example:

http://www.norvig.com/Gettysburg/

Take a look at the 'related essay' link on this page.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto

aul@Hovnanian.com
note to spammers: a Washington State resident
------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail. -- Gore Vidal

John Larkin · Mar 30, 2004

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:04:47 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:53:15 +0000, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Genome <Genome@nothere.com> wrote
(in <Chk9c.10$BR1.7@newsfe3-win.server.ntli.net&gt about 'PowerPoint??
Best Book to Learn Quickly??', on Sat, 27 Mar 2004:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:nlhb60dr9cq9l2p2icut2bmn1gnm19i0mu@4ax.com...
| I just bought PowerPoint upon insistence by a *very large* potential
| client.
|
| Thanks!
|
| ...Jim Thompson

Powerpoint is highly unreccomended. You should not have bought it you
should have requested that they lend you a copy.

At the same time you should have requested that they provide some
example presentations given by users within the company.

Having reviewed the material provided you will have gained a basic idea
about the standard powerpoint presentation.

At this point you will be able to assemble a number of slides from your
latest holiday, pick up your projector and screen and wag it.

Unfortunately you will be caught out by virtue of the fact that your
'powerpoint presentation' is marginally more interesting than the usual
fair.

And that's using your holiday snaps..... you know, the shit you post
here along with temperature/humidity/snow updates.

DNA

You deserve a medium-sized LOL for that.

Good idea! I'll put a picture of the owl in there ;-)

...Jim Thompson

I understand that WWII Air Force classes in aircraft profile
recognition inserted the occasional slide of a naked lady, just to
keep the class awake.

John

John Woodgate · Mar 31, 2004

I read in sci.electronics.design that Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote (in <406ACB91.6010609@nospam.com&gt

about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best
Book to Learn Quickly??', on Wed, 31 Mar 2004:

Who was it that said, "luck favors the prepared mind"?

Louis Pasteur stated that "chance favors the prepared mind" and this
clearly refers to chance productive observation of experimental results
enabled by a mindset open to creative but scientific hypothetical
conjecture. This is slightly deeper than the superficial idea of luck as
applied to the success of a flash-and-dazzle presentation by an
overpriced "consultant".

Isn't the quotation a mix of two, Pasteur's and a physicist's,(?) who

spoke about getting luckier the harder he worked at a problem?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Roger Gt · Mar 31, 2004

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:x$npJ2BgqtaAFw+f@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
: I read in sci.electronics.design that Fred Bloggs
<nospam@nospam.com>
: wrote (in <406ACB91.6010609@nospam.com&gt

about 'OT:
PowerPoint?? Best
: Book to Learn Quickly??', on Wed, 31 Mar 2004:
: >>
: >> Who was it that said, "luck favors the prepared mind"?
: >
: >Louis Pasteur stated that "chance favors the prepared mind" and
this
: >clearly refers to chance productive observation of experimental
results
: >enabled by a mindset open to creative but scientific
hypothetical
: >conjecture. This is slightly deeper than the superficial idea
of luck as
: >applied to the success of a flash-and-dazzle presentation by an
: >overpriced "consultant".
: >
: Isn't the quotation a mix of two, Pasteur's and a
physicist's,(?) who
: spoke about getting luckier the harder he worked at a problem?

I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the
more I
have of it. ~Thomas Jefferson

Ian Buckner · Apr 1, 2004

"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
news:d1Eac.44649$6H2.42692@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:x$npJ2BgqtaAFw+f@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
: I read in sci.electronics.design that Fred Bloggs
nospam@nospam.com
: wrote (in <406ACB91.6010609@nospam.com&gt about 'OT:
PowerPoint?? Best
: Book to Learn Quickly??', on Wed, 31 Mar 2004:
:
: >> Who was it that said, "luck favors the prepared mind"?
:
: >Louis Pasteur stated that "chance favors the prepared mind" and
this
: >clearly refers to chance productive observation of experimental
results
: >enabled by a mindset open to creative but scientific
hypothetical
: >conjecture. This is slightly deeper than the superficial idea
of luck as
: >applied to the success of a flash-and-dazzle presentation by an
: >overpriced "consultant".
:
: Isn't the quotation a mix of two, Pasteur's and a
physicist's,(?) who
: spoke about getting luckier the harder he worked at a problem?

I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the
more I
have of it. ~Thomas Jefferson

One of the well known golf players also came up with a

similar quote. When someone suggested he had played a
lucky shot, he came back with: "Sure, and I find that
the more I practice, the luckier I get."

Regards
Ian

Roger Gt · Apr 1, 2004

"Ian Buckner" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote
: > "John Woodgate" wrote
: > : Fred Bloggs wrote
: > : Book to Learn Quickly??', on Wed, 31 Mar 2004:
: > : >> Who was it that said, "luck favors the prepared mind"?
: > : >Louis Pasteur stated that "chance favors the prepared mind"
and
: > : >this clearly refers to chance productive observation of
experimental
: > : >results
: > : >enabled by a mindset open to creative but scientific
: > : >hypothetical conjecture. This is slightly deeper than the
: > : >superficial idea of luck as
: > : >applied to the success of a flash-and-dazzle presentation
by an
: > : >overpriced "consultant".
: > : >
: > : Isn't the quotation a mix of two, Pasteur's and a
: > physicist's,(?) who
: > : spoke about getting luckier the harder he worked at a
problem?
: >
: > I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the
: > more I
: > have of it. ~Thomas Jefferson
: >
: One of the well known golf players also came up with a
: similar quote. When someone suggested he had played a
: lucky shot, he came back with: "Sure, and I find that
: the more I practice, the luckier I get."

I wonder "who" was first?

OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??

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