OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:17:19 +0100, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <3c0e60591n0ofmlskpsor3atrti4aaf0ef@
4ax.com&gt about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??', on
Sun, 28 Mar 2004:
To this day, long-time Kodak employees still kid me about that event
;-)

A darkroom seem most appropriate in the context. As long as it doesn't
contain any dark matter. (;-)

We wouldn't invite him.

John

 

[KR Williams]

In article <864e60hn0eba0cvis9m4qniq0e4ofqt7db@4ax.com>,
jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us says...

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:55:52 GMT, Carl D. Smith
cdsmith69NOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote:

I thought this was interesting. It's called "Does PowerPoint
make us stupid?"

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/12/30/byrne.powerpoint.ap/

Here's the PowerPoint version of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address
mentioned in the article.
http://www.norvig.com/Gettysburg/index.htm

What, no motion, fireworks, or owls?

--
Keith

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:47:03 GMT, "Peter O. Brackett"
<no_such_address@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

It's better to be under-prepared than over-prepared. Less work, too.
[snip]

Sorry old man I'll never agree with that last statement.

Who was it that said, "luck favors the prepared mind"?

Surely you didn't mean what you said. There are many ways to communicate,
being unprepared is one of the worst...

I design precision electronics, but I'm usually unfamiliar with my
potential customer's business. So after we get an inquiry, I cram in
their area of expertise... I order books, download specs of
their/competing products, go to the library. I pick up jargon, get
some feel for current performance expectations, and learn all I can.
I've done this cold for NMR, lasers, AC power generators, explosives
testing, jet engines, mine detectors, atom probes, cryogenics, all
sorts of stuff. But, before I meet with a customer, I don't assume I
have an answer, and I certainly don't have the balls to subject them
to a slick PP presentation that would just present my ignorance in
living color.

Most people *like* to talk about what they do; they *like* a little
curiosity and admiration. So I say, sincerely, "Wow, that's really
cool. How can I help?"

When people show *me* PP presentations, I'm usually bored by them.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:06:01 -0500, KR Williams <krw@att.biz> wrote:

ps - one of the design constraints of ASC was that the preset and
clear of all flipflops were always tied high.

The purpose of this constraint was?

Dunno. Something to do with High Church Synchronous Design. Even
powerup-initialize states had to be clocked in.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:53:28 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:55:52 GMT, Carl D. Smith
cdsmith69NOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote:

I thought this was interesting. It's called "Does PowerPoint
make us stupid?"

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/12/30/byrne.powerpoint.ap/

Here's the PowerPoint version of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address
mentioned in the article.
http://www.norvig.com/Gettysburg/index.htm

For some grim fun, read David Packard's 212-page book "The HP Way",
then immediately read Carly Fiorina's 92-page PowerPoint opus "The
journey."

John

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandSNIP
techTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote (in <j29e60ptduku0ou8hbm5lb4qv8pdhm700g@
4ax.com&gt about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??', on
Sun, 28 Mar 2004:

I design precision electronics, but I'm usually unfamiliar with my
potential customer's business. So after we get an inquiry, I cram in
their area of expertise... I order books, download specs of
their/competing products, go to the library. I pick up jargon, get
some feel for current performance expectations, and learn all I can.
I've done this cold for NMR, lasers, AC power generators, explosives
testing, jet engines, mine detectors, atom probes, cryogenics, all
sorts of stuff.

You have time to do all that? I get a phone call at 11 AM and they want
initial answers by return e-mail and the full story by next Tuesday.
Spec? Design brief? Contract? Purchase order? What are those?

Of course, a lot of my stuff is desk research on standards, but by no
means all of it.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandSNIP
techTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote (in <3v9e60dmuuunpe69ehuli02g4jnsr0ku62@
4ax.com&gt about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??', on
Sun, 28 Mar 2004:

Something to do with High Church Synchronous Design.

So you used 74HCxxx devices?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote (in <864e60hn0eba0cvis9m4qniq0e4ofq
t7db@4ax.com&gt about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??',
on Sun, 28 Mar 2004:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:55:52 GMT, Carl D. Smith
cdsmith69NOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote:

I thought this was interesting. It's called "Does PowerPoint
make us stupid?"

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/12/30/byrne.powerpoint.ap/

Here's the PowerPoint version of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address
mentioned in the article.
http://www.norvig.com/Gettysburg/index.htm

PowerPoint can easily be abused. But consider that in its simplest
state, it produces slides that are a simple upgrade on OHP gels. If
PowerPoint in that mode is bad, we've had 20 years of 'bad' from OHPs.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandSNIP
techTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote (in <lkae60lnp9ecarpo9o8k06rfj1td9u1k1g@
4ax.com&gt about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??', on
Sun, 28 Mar 2004:

For some grim fun, read David Packard's 212-page book "The HP Way",
then immediately read Carly Fiorina's 92-page PowerPoint opus "The
journey."

The difference is undoubtedly that DP wrote his stuff, and it mattered
to him. One might take leave to imagine that CF had PR 'help' and once
you have that, nothing probably matters any more.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:23:28 -0500, KR Williams <krw@att.biz> wrote:

In article <864e60hn0eba0cvis9m4qniq0e4ofqt7db@4ax.com>,
jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us says...
Here's the PowerPoint version of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address
mentioned in the article.
http://www.norvig.com/Gettysburg/index.htm

What, no motion, fireworks, or owls?

Lincoln was probably in a hurry and didn't have time to add the
animation. As I recall, he wrote his presentation while on the train
to Gettysburg, which probably didn't include Wi-Fi internet services,
or power outlets for recharging his laptop. Since it was an outdoor
presentation, a large projection display was suppose to be available,
but failed to materialize at the appointed time. That explains why
the PowerPoint presentation wasn't used. To make matters worse, the
public address system was also missing in action. Therefore, Lincoln
was forced to give an abreviated, conventional, verbal only,
non-amplified, non-multimedia, speech, which was initially considered
too short, too scholarly, and too weird to be of any importance.

The obvious lesson is that while PowerPoint multimedia presentations
are the prefered method, one should always be prepared to fall back on
more conventional means of delivering ones pitch line.


--
Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
(831)421-6491 pgr (831)336-2558 home
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us jeffl@cruzio.com

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:16:38 +0100, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jeff Liebermann
jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote (in <864e60hn0eba0cvis9m4qniq0e4ofq
t7db@4ax.com&gt about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??',
on Sun, 28 Mar 2004:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:55:52 GMT, Carl D. Smith
cdsmith69NOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote:

I thought this was interesting. It's called "Does PowerPoint
make us stupid?"

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/12/30/byrne.powerpoint.ap/

Here's the PowerPoint version of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address
mentioned in the article.
http://www.norvig.com/Gettysburg/index.htm

PowerPoint can easily be abused. But consider that in its simplest
state, it produces slides that are a simple upgrade on OHP gels. If
PowerPoint in that mode is bad, we've had 20 years of 'bad' from OHPs.

Hopefully, that's an observation, not a justification. The problem
with the computer industry is it's often very conservative. Products
that are initially computerized are most often nothing more than
electronic versions of its mechanical predecessor. The initial
computer printers were nothing more than motorized typewriters. The
computer keyboard is an expanded typewriter keyboard. The computer
monitor is a better TV screen. Word processor software tended to be
clones of their dedicated word processing machine predecessor.

By my logic, PowerPoint is nothing more than a fancy lantern slide
projector. Not much has changed in the form, function, or methods.
Everything that's wrong with scribbles on acetate in an overhead
projector, applies to PowerPoint. PowerPoint may add some color,
embellishments, and animation, but it's still a fancy lantern slide.

Real progress has been made by the legal establishment. High profile
(and high cost) court proceeding often include "simulations" of the
events delivered in a made to order, special effects extravaganza
movie. I've seen a few of these and they are truely impressive. The
effect on the jury is quite compelling where the best production job
usually wins the case. While the content is often pure speculation,
the delivery is impressive. I can see PowerPoint evolving into some
kind of similar animated movie maker. Of course, the initial version
will show an animated owl, pointing to a bullet list, on the screen.
Groan...


--
Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
(831)421-6491 pgr (831)336-2558 home
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us jeffl@cruzio.com

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:32:37 -0800, the renowned Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:23:28 -0500, KR Williams <krw@att.biz> wrote:

In article <864e60hn0eba0cvis9m4qniq0e4ofqt7db@4ax.com>,
jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us says...
Here's the PowerPoint version of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address
mentioned in the article.
http://www.norvig.com/Gettysburg/index.htm

What, no motion, fireworks, or owls?

Lincoln was probably in a hurry and didn't have time to add the
animation. As I recall, he wrote his presentation while on the train
to Gettysburg,

That's an UL, but it is fun to say: "Abraham Lincoln wrote the speech
while riding to Gettysburg on the back of an envelope."

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[John Fields]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:31:08 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:

Most of the time that I make a "presentation" to a customer, I don't
really know what they need, and they don't either. So a canned
presentation usually doesn't make sense, and its very existance tends
to freeze things. My favorite presentation tool is a clean whiteboard
and some fresh color markers. My favorite opening is "I don't
understand your problem... please explain it to me." For those
attendees who were counting on a nice PowerPoint nap, this wakes them
up; their function is no longer passive. It wakes me up, too, sort of
like doing a trapeze act without a net.

It's better to be under-prepared than over-prepared. Less work, too.

---
I haven't read the zillion-or-more posts which I'm sure will take you
to task for daring to not have all your ducks in a row and your
presentation not planned to the Nth degree when you meet with your
clients, but I agree with you in that being able to shoot from the hip
is much, much, better than blindly following a script.


--
John Fields

 

[Byron A Jeff]

In article <fulb60p61o8u1ts617nr7bpbpu4rvrp6ij@4ax.com>,
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:
-On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:24:37 -0700, Jim Thompson
-<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
-
->On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:24:35 -0800, John Larkin
-><jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:
->
->>On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:25:41 -0700, Jim Thompson
->><thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
->>
->>>I just bought PowerPoint upon insistence by a *very large* potential
->>>client.
->>>
->>>Any recommendations for best book to get?
->>>
->>>Thanks!
->>>
->>> ...Jim Thompson
->>
->>The Bible.
->>
->>John
->
->I'm starting to feel that way. Man! M$ can sure make obtuse software
->:-(
->
-> ...Jim Thompson
-
-
-Yeah. The only word processor I use is EDIT. Probably the best
-presentation I ever made was illustrated by overheads projected from
-hand sketches I did on the (bumpy) airplane flight to the customer
-site.

John, I definitely feel you on this one. As a 20+ year veteran of Unix, troff,
Latex, and the like, PP isn't my favorite. Jim, However I do have some
suggestions that may help bend PP to your will.

1) Keep it simple. IMHO large client or not, if they are only impressed by a
flashy presentation and not by the quality of your ideas, then you
probably don't want them for a client anyway.

2) PP has two related items that simplifies getting started: Outline mode and
Import Outline. With Import Outline, you can bring in an outside text file
and PP will trun it into a bunch of titled and bulleted pages for you.
Simply use your favorite text editor (like EDIT) with the following
rules:
1) Titles start in the 1st column.
2) Each tab represents a level of bulleting.
3) Each blank line separates a page.

Import outline is a godsend for content/format separation junkies such as
myself because I can focus on the content without getting caught up in the
typical MS direct manipulation/format as you go BS that WYSIWYG directs
you towards.

3) Take time to learn about styles and master pages. These guys lets you set
the tone and format of a presenation without having to spend any time
manipulated each individual page. A nice font and an understated background
goes a long way towards making a simple yet professional presentation.

4) You probably could of in the end kept your money in your pocket.
OpenOffice.org is quite good at developing simple PP presentations and all
it cost is download and disk space.

So a brief synopsis:

1) Build your initial presentation in a text file.
2) Use Import Outline to transform into a presentation.
3) Build a Master Page with the background/fonts you want.
4) Touch up edit (or include images) using PP.
5) Call it a day and have a beer.

Hope this helps,

BAJ

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote (in <icfe601vn7c0sk7042t8gi4svgs5n6
7dd3@4ax.com&gt about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??',
on Sun, 28 Mar 2004:

I've seen a few of these and they are truely impressive. The
effect on the jury is quite compelling where the best production job
usually wins the case. While the content is often pure speculation,
the delivery is impressive.

So guilt or innocence depends on the expertise of the video producers?
That's JUSTICE??
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:26:40 +0100, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jeff Liebermann
jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote (in <icfe601vn7c0sk7042t8gi4svgs5n6
7dd3@4ax.com&gt about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??',
on Sun, 28 Mar 2004:

I've seen a few of these and they are truely impressive. The
effect on the jury is quite compelling where the best production job
usually wins the case. While the content is often pure speculation,
the delivery is impressive.

So guilt or innocence depends on the expertise of the video producers?
That's JUSTICE??

Well, video producers are step above PowerPoint presentation
producers.

Yeah, that's the way it works. I've sat on a few juries over the
years and find that the American justice system to be seriously
broken. The big problem is that the American system is the only one
on the planet where the loser does not pay. You can sue on specious
grounds, ruin someone's life, and empty their bank account, lose in
court, and never pay a penny to compensate the innocent victim. This
sucks, big time.

I got lucky a few months ago and didn't get selected for a jury. They
started jury selection with about 75 prospective jurors. I forgot to
bring a magazine or book to read, so I amused myself by keeping score
of who gets selected and who gets dismissed. The procedure was for
each prospective juror to answer a set menu of questions. The first
few questions were fairly innocuous, such as employment, relatives,
associates in law enforcement, and such. However, the last question
was rather interesting. It asked about outside activities and
hobbies.

After the first round of disqualifications, I realized that both the
prosecution and the defense were basing their selections on the
answers to the last question. They wanted easily impressionable and
clueless jurors. If someone answered that their outside activities
revolved around civic service, technical interests, and intellectual
pursuits, they were immediately disqualified. If they were into
sports, screwing around, or emulating a couch potatoes, they got
selected on the jury.

They went through about 60 jurors before I my name got pulled from the
hat. Near the end, my batting average on predicting if a prospective
juror would be disqualified was 100%. Of course, I answered the
outside interest and hobby question with writing science fiction, ham
radio, and composing music. Instant disqualification.

Welcome to being judged by a jury consisting of the lowest possible
intelligence and experience level. Now, what was this about justice?


--
Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
(831)421-6491 pgr (831)336-2558 home
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us jeffl@cruzio.com

 

[Frank Bemelman]

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> schreef in bericht
news:LuE39uAgG8ZAFwxP@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jeff Liebermann
jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote (in <icfe601vn7c0sk7042t8gi4svgs5n6
7dd3@4ax.com&gt about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??',
on Sun, 28 Mar 2004:

I've seen a few of these and they are truely impressive. The
effect on the jury is quite compelling where the best production job
usually wins the case. While the content is often pure speculation,
the delivery is impressive.

So guilt or innocence depends on the expertise of the video producers?
That's JUSTICE??

It also helps, when you're the suspect, if you have a friendly
face, clean shaven and all, and wear a TIE!!!

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'x' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote (in <bdif605jevjph7lr5p6jibm27hkcdi
5kjl@4ax.com&gt about 'OT: PowerPoint?? Best Book to Learn Quickly??',
on Sun, 28 Mar 2004:

Welcome to being judged by a jury consisting of the lowest possible
intelligence and experience level. Now, what was this about justice?

It's not that different in England; I don't know about Scotland.
Although the authorities will not admit it, you don't get called for
jury service if you have a degree. But some of my intelligent and
experienced, but degree-less, colleagues have been called, one for a
very long case indeed.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Tim Shoppa]

Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message news:<nlhb60dr9cq9l2p2icut2bmn1gnm19i0mu@4ax.com>...

I just bought PowerPoint upon insistence by a *very large* potential
client.

Any recommendations for best book to get?

Read the New York Times, December 14 2003: "PowerPoint Makes you Dumb".

The Colubmia Accident Investigation Board blamed puff-piece powerpoint
presentation as part of the cause of the Shuttle Columbia disaster.

[...]
NASA, the board argued, had become too reliant on
presenting complex information via PowerPoint, instead of
by means of traditional ink-and-paper technical reports.
When NASA engineers assessed possible wing damage during
the mission, they presented the findings in a confusing PowerPoint slide --
so crammed with nested bullet points and irregular short forms that it was
nearly impossible to untangle. ''It is easy to understand how a senior
manager might read this PowerPoint slide and not realize that it addresses a
life-threatening situation,'' the board sternly noted.
[...]
[Edward Tufte:] For example, the low resolution of a
PowerPoint slide means that it usually contains only about 40 words, or
barely eight seconds of reading. PowerPoint also encourages users to rely on
bulleted lists, a ''faux analytical'' technique, Tufte wrote, that dodges
the speaker's responsibility to tie his information together. And perhaps
worst of all is how PowerPoint renders charts. Charts in newspapers like The
Wall Street Journal contain up to 120 elements on average, allowing readers
to compare large groupings of data. But, as Tufte found, PowerPoint users
typically produce charts with only 12 elements. Ultimately, Tufte concluded,
PowerPoint is infused with ''an attitude of commercialism that turns
everything into a sales pitch.''

Tim.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:21:32 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:

[snip]

After the first round of disqualifications, I realized that both the
prosecution and the defense were basing their selections on the
answers to the last question. They wanted easily impressionable and
clueless jurors. If someone answered that their outside activities
revolved around civic service, technical interests, and intellectual
pursuits, they were immediately disqualified. If they were into
sports, screwing around, or emulating a couch potatoes, they got
selected on the jury.

They went through about 60 jurors before I my name got pulled from the
hat. Near the end, my batting average on predicting if a prospective
juror would be disqualified was 100%. Of course, I answered the
outside interest and hobby question with writing science fiction, ham
radio, and composing music. Instant disqualification.

Welcome to being judged by a jury consisting of the lowest possible
intelligence and experience level. Now, what was this about justice?

Thanks for the tip, I'm called for April 9 Jury Service.

The questionnaire that I mailed in asked questions in regard to
whether I was capable of serving. Even though I allowed as how, due
to prostate problems, I need to pee at least once an hour, I didn't
get excused :-(

When they call my name I think I'll say I need to go to the restroom
first ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.