OT: My daughters binaural pure tone audiometry test, opinion

[Jan Panteltje]

amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in <qj2lk0$6av$1@dont-email.me>:

On 8/14/2019 4:11 PM, John Larkin wrote:
Found this test, FWIW.
https://hearingtest.online/

Says I have severe hearing loss at 8K both ears.
At 4k Moderate loss in left ear, mild in right ear.
normal below that.
I would think the graphs would be marked in DB but they say DBhl.
I think that means db down from your initial calibration level.
So, from initial calibration, left ear down 60db @ 4kHz and 80db @ 8kHz.
Really? yikes!
Mikek

Not to worry, now you can use a much higher Q LC in your crystal radio

 

[amdx]

On 8/15/2019 12:59 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:

amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in <qj2lk0$6av$1@dont-email.me>:

On 8/14/2019 4:11 PM, John Larkin wrote:
Found this test, FWIW.
https://hearingtest.online/

Says I have severe hearing loss at 8K both ears.
At 4k Moderate loss in left ear, mild in right ear.
normal below that.
I would think the graphs would be marked in DB but they say DBhl.
I think that means db down from your initial calibration level.
So, from initial calibration, left ear down 60db @ 4kHz and 80db @ 8kHz.
Really? yikes!
Mikek

Not to worry, now you can use a much higher Q LC in your crystal radio

If I'm down 10db 300Hz to 3kHz is it cheating to put in a 10db amplifier?
Mikek

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Aug 2019 01:14:00 -0500) it happened amdx
<nojunk@knology.net> wrote in <qj2t73$3e8$1@dont-email.me>:

On 8/15/2019 12:59 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in <qj2lk0$6av$1@dont-email.me>:

On 8/14/2019 4:11 PM, John Larkin wrote:
Found this test, FWIW.
https://hearingtest.online/

Says I have severe hearing loss at 8K both ears.
At 4k Moderate loss in left ear, mild in right ear.
normal below that.
I would think the graphs would be marked in DB but they say DBhl.
I think that means db down from your initial calibration level.
So, from initial calibration, left ear down 60db @ 4kHz and 80db @ 8kHz.
Really? yikes!
Mikek

Not to worry, now you can use a much higher Q LC in your crystal radio

If I'm down 10db 300Hz to 3kHz is it cheating to put in a 10db amplifier?
Mikek

You mean more gain for say above 3 kHz?

I see it this way (never mind the opinion of whatever)
when we get older the skin starts to wrinkle a bit.
If wrinkling happens to the ear-drum (the membrane that is connected via 2 bones to the inner ear)
then it is like a microphone with a floppy membrane and no high frequency is passed on.
You cannot just put up the volume as that will shake things and probably damage the membrane.

The ONLY other way I see to get high frequency is have mechanical contact with the skull (piezo?) and
that way via the skull-bone activate the fluid in the inner ear,
chances are that part is still not affected so much as the ear drum.
(I do not know what he effect of long time high frequency vibrations is on the rest of the brain so... ).
It is probably easily tested by holding a small speaker against the skull next to the ear, but have not,
oh wait, I did test, long ago, but not everybody is the same.

300-300Hz is fine to understand things, many high-end super-heterodyne ;-) receivers
use narrow band IF filters just to get clean signals so...

Personally I normally listen with cheap what is it here these days ? Tecsun earphones, ebay few $, see they are no longer on ebay),

and that works great for me, I have a whole collection of sort of model earphones from different manufacturers...

If you are into bass and high frequencies I also have a big Sennheiser HD201 headphone
the bass is good, the treble is good.

The many $$$ little shit earphones you can buy are worthless to me.
The Tecsuns were 4 $.

Of course I also have the 300W stage amplifier and related speakers for if ..

 

[boB]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 13:26:39 -0700 (PDT), jrwalliker@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 19:20:39 UTC+1, boB wrote:

In my followup, I asked the doctor why they only tested up to 8kHz. He
said that people can typically only hear up to 8 or 9 kHz ! Even
young childred can only hear up to around 10 kHz he said !

Geesh ! Where are these doctors getting their licenses from ?

I will NOT be going back to him again for a hearing test !

The reality is that it becomes very difficult to calibrate audiometric
headphones much above 8kHz and also the very high frequencies are
not considered clinically significant.

The point is that this guy said that basically, people do not hear
above 9 kHz !
We all know that is wrong. I can do a simple test that shows that I
can hear up to about 12.5 kHz max. Can't tell how many dB I am down
in-between there and 8 kHz very well but that's OK. Frequency response
drops off very sharply typically. I can test others' hearing also.
BUT I couldn't easily tell if there was a dead-frequency in the middle
of the range somewhere...

But you don't need to be a doctor to know that hearing does NOT stop
at 8 kHz

Researchers who are interested in very accurate measurements use
probe microphones in the ear canal close to the eardrum for calibration.
This is not practical for routine clinical use.

John

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 15/08/19 07:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Aug 2019 01:14:00 -0500) it happened amdx
nojunk@knology.net> wrote in <qj2t73$3e8$1@dont-email.me>:

On 8/15/2019 12:59 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in <qj2lk0$6av$1@dont-email.me>:

On 8/14/2019 4:11 PM, John Larkin wrote:
Found this test, FWIW.
https://hearingtest.online/

Says I have severe hearing loss at 8K both ears.
At 4k Moderate loss in left ear, mild in right ear.
normal below that.
I would think the graphs would be marked in DB but they say DBhl.
I think that means db down from your initial calibration level.
So, from initial calibration, left ear down 60db @ 4kHz and 80db @ 8kHz.
Really? yikes!
Mikek

Not to worry, now you can use a much higher Q LC in your crystal radio

If I'm down 10db 300Hz to 3kHz is it cheating to put in a 10db amplifier?
Mikek

You mean more gain for say above 3 kHz?

I see it this way (never mind the opinion of whatever)
when we get older the skin starts to wrinkle a bit.
If wrinkling happens to the ear-drum (the membrane that is connected via 2 bones to the inner ear)
then it is like a microphone with a floppy membrane and no high frequency is passed on.
You cannot just put up the volume as that will shake things and probably damage the membrane.

You may see it that way.

For most people the cause is that the stereocilia fall off.

The ONLY other way I see to get high frequency is have mechanical contact with the skull (piezo?) and
that way via the skull-bone activate the fluid in the inner ear,
chances are that part is still not affected so much as the ear drum.

False. The primary cause of age-related deafness is that
the stereocilia fall off.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Aug 2019 07:59:54 +0100) it happened Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in <Lp75F.66572$893.2922@fx02.am4>:
><beep>

Old saying by Panteltje
Those who do not want to see are effectively blind.

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 15/08/19 08:35, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Aug 2019 07:59:54 +0100) it happened Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in <Lp75F.66572$893.2922@fx02.am4>:
beep

Old saying by Panteltje
Those who do not want to see are effectively blind.

Old saying: that's the pot calling the kettle black.
Old saying: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

More importantly, theories of how things might work are
valueless, /unless/ they make enable testable /predictions/
to be made.

So, what are the testable predictions that your theories
make, and what are the results of the tests.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Aug 2019 08:44:59 +0100) it happened Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in <%385F.220746$c8w1.98162@fx08.am4>:

On 15/08/19 08:35, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Aug 2019 07:59:54 +0100) it happened Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in <Lp75F.66572$893.2922@fx02.am4>:
beep

Old saying by Panteltje
Those who do not want to see are effectively blind.

Old saying: that's the pot calling the kettle black.
Old saying: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Good thing as it smells the pollution.



if age effects of the eardrum prevent higher frequencies from reaching the inner ear,
then it may well lead to degeneration of the related nerve cells,
as those do not get activated,.
You see he same in people with paraplegia, the leg muscles and system deteriorate as it is no longer activated.

So cause and effect.

You also see this in people who never think for themselves,
their related brain circuits finally die off.

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 15/08/19 09:15, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Aug 2019 08:44:59 +0100) it happened Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in <%385F.220746$c8w1.98162@fx08.am4>:

On 15/08/19 08:35, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Aug 2019 07:59:54 +0100) it happened Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in <Lp75F.66572$893.2922@fx02.am4>:
beep

Old saying by Panteltje
Those who do not want to see are effectively blind.

Old saying: that's the pot calling the kettle black.
Old saying: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Good thing as it smells the pollution.



if age effects of the eardrum prevent higher frequencies from reaching the inner ear,
then it may well lead to degeneration of the related nerve cells,
as those do not get activated,.
You see he same in people with paraplegia, the leg muscles and system deteriorate as it is no longer activated.

You /really/ think the eardrum is a muscle that is activated by
neural signals?


> So cause and effect.

Or no cause and no effect, as in this case.

You also see this in people who never think for themselves,
their related brain circuits finally die off.

More importantly, theories of how things might work are
valueless, /unless/ they make enable testable /predictions/
to be made.

So, what are the testable predictions that your theories
make, and what are the results of the tests.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 15/08/2019 09:15, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Aug 2019 08:44:59 +0100) it happened Tom
Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
%385F.220746$c8w1.98162@fx08.am4>:

On 15/08/19 08:35, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Aug 2019 07:59:54 +0100) it happened Tom
Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
Lp75F.66572$893.2922@fx02.am4>:
beep

Old saying by Panteltje Those who do not want to see are
effectively blind.

Old saying: that's the pot calling the kettle black. Old saying:
you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Good thing as it smells the pollution.

if age effects of the eardrum prevent higher frequencies from
reaching the inner ear, then it may well lead to degeneration of the
related nerve cells, as those do not get activated,. You see he same

However, the evidence is very strong that industrial exposure to loud
high frequency noise pretty much destroys the stereocilla of the hair
cells that should be there to pick up vibrations. The high frequencies
die first because they get a lot more wear and tear.

Cochlea implants can sometimes fix the problem - the signal paths are
still present it is the sensors that have been ruined by overloading.

https://www.actiononhearingloss.org.uk/hearing-health/hearing-loss-and-deafness/hearing-aids-and-other-treatments/cochlear-implants/

in people with paraplegia, the leg muscles and system deteriorate as
it is no longer activated.

So cause and effect.

You also see this in people who never think for themselves, their
related brain circuits finally die off.

There are people who think that every crazy idea that *they* have must
be right.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

On Thursday, 15 August 2019 10:18:44 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:

if age effects of the eardrum prevent higher frequencies from
reaching the inner ear, then it may well lead to degeneration of the
related nerve cells, as those do not get activated,. You see he same

However, the evidence is very strong that industrial exposure to loud
high frequency noise pretty much destroys the stereocilla of the hair
cells that should be there to pick up vibrations. The high frequencies
die first because they get a lot more wear and tear.

This is likely to be because the high-frequency hair cells are the
ones closest to the eardrum, so they get battered regardless of
frequency.

The cochlea is a remarkable organ. It uses electro-mechanical
feedback because some of the hair cells are able to act as motors
while others immediately adjacent to them are sensors.

In a healthy ear, it is possible to detect acoustic emissions from
suitable input stimuli. For example intermodulation products
can be detected with a probe microphone in the ear canal when two
frequencies are presented simultaneously. In the time domain
it is possible to detect echoes from pulse stimuli. These can
sometimes resolve damaged areas of the basilar membrane where
there are reflections of a proportion of the travelling wave.

Otoacoustic emissions have been used widely for screening testing
of the hearing of infants.

John

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Aug 2019 09:46:24 +0100) it happened Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in <AZ85F.9048$VT3.4786@fx19.am4>:

You /really/ think the eardrum is a muscle that is activated by
neural signals?

Dear t0m, you deliberately change what I wrote
End om commi-nukations

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 16/08/19 07:19, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Aug 2019 09:46:24 +0100) it happened Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in <AZ85F.9048$VT3.4786@fx19.am4>:

You /really/ think the eardrum is a muscle that is activated by
neural signals?

Dear t0m, you deliberately change what I wrote
End om commi-nukations

It is rude to snip /directly relevant/ context, particularly
context that highlights your mistake.

 

[Johnny B Good]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 03:30:46 -0700, jrwalliker wrote:

On Thursday, 15 August 2019 10:18:44 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:

if age effects of the eardrum prevent higher frequencies from
reaching the inner ear, then it may well lead to degeneration of the
related nerve cells, as those do not get activated,. You see he same

However, the evidence is very strong that industrial exposure to loud
high frequency noise pretty much destroys the stereocilla of the hair
cells that should be there to pick up vibrations. The high frequencies
die first because they get a lot more wear and tear.

This is likely to be because the high-frequency hair cells are the ones
closest to the eardrum, so they get battered regardless of frequency.

The cochlea is a remarkable organ. It uses electro-mechanical feedback
because some of the hair cells are able to act as motors while others
immediately adjacent to them are sensors.

In a healthy ear, it is possible to detect acoustic emissions from
suitable input stimuli. For example intermodulation products can be
detected with a probe microphone in the ear canal when two frequencies
are presented simultaneously. In the time domain it is possible to
detect echoes from pulse stimuli. These can sometimes resolve damaged
areas of the basilar membrane where there are reflections of a
proportion of the travelling wave.

Otoacoustic emissions have been used widely for screening testing of the
hearing of infants.

John

Thank you for saving me making a similar response re: "high-frequency
hair cells are the ones closest to the eardrum, so they get battered
regardless of frequency" ;-)

I know it's 3 months late, that's just the frustration of being away
from these usenet postings these past three months. :-(

--
Johnny B Good