OT: Goodbye to the American Dream

[amdx]

On 8/19/2015 9:08 PM, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 12:34:18 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 8/17/2015 9:32 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
Goodbye to the American Dream... Thanks to Obama...

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/new-677511-millennials-economic.html

...Jim Thompson


Even if all that is true, it doesn't effect any individual that
wants to work hard save money, invest and retire at 40.

If you earn $50,000*, save 20% of your income for 20 years invest at
10%** you will have have $797,800. Not a lot to retire on, but more net
worth than 90% of the population between 18 and 65 years old.
$797,810 with a 4% withdrawal rate is $32,000. aah, keep the wife
working ;-) Note that $32K should be mostly tax free, and no FICA either.

* includes inflation adjustment.
** 60 year average stock market return

For those interested,
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/

And the full dose.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/all-the-posts-since-the-beginning-of-time/
Start at the bottom.

Or, meet Mr. Money Mustache.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/06/meet-mr-money-mustache/

Don't miss the Mr. Money Mustache Forum.
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/index.php

Hilarious. Thanks!

Cheers,
James Arthur

Ok, but not enough context for me to know if you think the concept is
neat or BS.

I'm late in life for the RE part, but it turns out we did a fair job
of living the MMM life, before we learned about it.
On the other hand I have no interest in living on MMM's income.
If you read between the lines MMM's networth has probably grown
to 3 x what it was when he retired.
Mikek

btw, here is a program that calculates your odds of running out of money
before you die. You put in data like total portfolio, yearly withdrawal,
inflation rate, expected SS, expected retirement time, etc.
It uses historical stock market returns, Makes a run , say 30 yrs, from
1880 to 1910, then 1881 to 1911, all the way to 1985 to 2015. Then finds
out how many times out of the 115 stock market runs you would have run
out of money. As they say historical return do not predict future
returns, but...
The program has lots of possible adjustments or you can just use it's
assumptions. Just read so you know what they are. I think the assumed
inflation rate (at 3%) is low, I bumped it up.

> http://www.firecalc.com/

See the tabs just below the top that read as follows, to make adjustments.
Start Here---Other Income/Spending---Not Retired?---Spending Models Your
Portfolio---Portfolio Changes

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[John Larkin]

On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 08:09:20 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
<DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:

On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 04:42:58 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> Gave us:

On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 1:31:29 PM UTC-4, John Devereux wrote:
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:

On 8/19/2015 1:09 PM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:


Even if all that is true, it doesn't effect any individual that
wants to work hard save money, invest and retire at 40.


Why would anyone with a enjoyable job want to retire at 40? And if
you do not enjoy your job, then why not find one you do enjoy.

If your job is so enjoyable, why do you take vacations?

She makes me.

+1
I'd be happy spending a week or two at home
puttering around.

George H.

--

John Devereux

I spend most of my time fitting out the half million dollar
development lab downstairs.

Last week was an agilent spectrum analyzer/signal generator for 8GHz.

Currently looking at an ENA Network analyzer to add.

I have in my office, at Tek list price, maybe $400K worth of sampling
heads, sniped on ebay for a few per cent of that. If it was great
equipment 20 years ago, it's mostly still great.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
lunatic fringe electronics

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[amdx]

On 8/19/2015 9:12 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 19 Aug 2015 11:34:09 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 8/17/2015 9:32 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
Goodbye to the American Dream... Thanks to Obama...

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/new-677511-millennials-economic.html

...Jim Thompson


Even if all that is true, it doesn't effect any individual that
wants to work hard save money, invest and retire at 40.

Why would anybody want to do that?

By fluke I ran across this.
"Are you very happy at work?" (19% vs. 22%). Tech vs Others.
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/08/19/tech-workers-richer-but-less-happy-than-most-workers-tinypulse-survey/32011313/

Mikek


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[Syd Rumpo]

On 20/08/2015 14:21, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:17:46 -0400, the renowned rickman
gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:


Oh no! Carbo Carbonicide!

--

Rick

I think killing coal is called "Anthracide".

--sp


(we already have "kayactivists" and folks out to "rappel Shell").

Well, you can't have your kayak and heat it.

Cheers
--
Syd

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 22:45:22 +0100, Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk>
wrote:

On 20/08/2015 14:21, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:17:46 -0400, the renowned rickman
gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:


Oh no! Carbo Carbonicide!

--

Rick

I think killing coal is called "Anthracide".

--sp


(we already have "kayactivists" and folks out to "rappel Shell").


Well, you can't have your kayak and heat it.

Cheers

Sno-o-o-ort >:-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 22:45:22 +0100, Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk>
Gave us:

On 20/08/2015 14:21, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:17:46 -0400, the renowned rickman
gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:


Oh no! Carbo Carbonicide!

--

Rick

I think killing coal is called "Anthracide".

--sp


(we already have "kayactivists" and folks out to "rappel Shell").


Well, you can't have your kayak and heat it.

Cheers

To those standing at the end of the rapids watching as they come
down... The King said... "Let them eat Kayak."

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 16:19:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> Gave us:

Sno-o-o-ort >:-}

...Jim Thompson

A classic (and old and tired) JT stoopid post.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

amdx wrote:

I think there is more to it than that.
It's all the things we think we need because they are available.
We didn't have them in 1950. Just starting, Please to add to my list
any items we didn't have in 1950, that seem like a must have now.

House needs- air conditioning,

Not till I got sick and ended up 100% disabled.

> ceiling fans,

This is Florida. They came with the house.

> garbage disposal,

A 32 gallon can that I haul to the landfill when it's full.

> mammoth refrigerator,

Standard sized, and was given to me.

> TV, no 3 tv's,

More than three, but I've only bought three in 45 years. I spent less
than $200 for all three combined.

> cable,

No OTA available.

> 2 baths,

Came with the $37,000 house

> 2 car garage,

Four car, needs a new roof.

> and a carport,

None

> electric can opener,

None

> microwave,

Several. all but one were free. I paid $2.00 for the oldest one and
repaired it with a used HV capacitor.

> exercise equipment,

None.

> automation home,

Only motion sensors on some lights, because I need it. I fall too
often, even with them.

> concrete driveways,

50 year old asphalt.

> dimmers on our lights,

Hell no!

> outdoors lights that turn themselves on,

Needed, when you have trouble seeing and walking.

> Car needs-- NEW, 3 years old not 8 years old,

18 year old pickup that hasn't run in almost three months.

> power windows and locks,

None

> automatic transmission,

No choice on a used vehicle

> air conditioning,

Hasn't worked for over seven years.



> Electronic needs-- cellphones,

Cheap used one from Ebay.

internet, Being homebound, I need something.

mp3 player,

$8.00, with earphones.

> computer,

$40.00, three years ago

> printers,

$10.00 for a used Laser printer, over 100 used, free inkjets

> Xbox,

No, thanks.

> play station,

No, thanks.

> bluray player,

$80, three years ago. Bought to stream free TV shows and movies.

> stereo and speakers,

An early '70s Harman Kardon I bought for $3.00, over 20 years ago.
The speakers were given to me.

> digital cameras,

I use a HTC EVO 4G Cellphone I bought for $6.00 on ebay and that
included shipping.

Personal needs-- expensive clothes,

Most of my clothes are what are left from when I worked full time.

> expensive razors,

Dollar store disposable.

> all nature of creams and salves and skin conditioners,

Get real.

> expensive tennis shoes,

I haven't worn those since I left high school. I have to wear special
Diabetic shoes that cost $400+ a pair.

More categories or additions?

Don't get me wrong I like many of these, but you are right,
it often takes two working to obtain them.
Mikek

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 11:39:33 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> Gave us:

microwave,

Several. all but one were free. I paid $2.00 for the oldest one and
repaired it with a used HV capacitor.

This and a garage full of used obsolete computers... donated.

You're a hoarder and a very poor one at that. Piss poor, in fact.

What a putz you are. A modern microwave actually performs the heating
job better than the 25 year old models, "new HV cap" or not.

You're almost as bad a joke as Donald Trump is... almost.

 

[dcaster@krl.org]

On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 1:15:55 PM UTC-4, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

What a putz you are. A modern microwave actually performs the heating
job better than the 25 year old models, "new HV cap" or not.

Please explain what you mean by " perforns the heating job better ".

As far as I know the new ones operate exactly the same as the old ones.

Dan

 

[amdx]

On 8/22/2015 10:39 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

amdx wrote:


I think there is more to it than that.
It's all the things we think we need because they are available.
We didn't have them in 1950. Just starting, Please to add to my list
any items we didn't have in 1950, that seem like a must have now.

House needs- air conditioning,

Not till I got sick and ended up 100% disabled.

ceiling fans,

This is Florida. They came with the house.

garbage disposal,

A 32 gallon can that I haul to the landfill when it's full.

mammoth refrigerator,

Standard sized, and was given to me.

TV, no 3 tv's,

More than three, but I've only bought three in 45 years. I spent less
than $200 for all three combined.

cable,

No OTA available.

2 baths,

Came with the $37,000 house

2 car garage,

Four car, needs a new roof.

and a carport,

None

electric can opener,

None

microwave,

Several. all but one were free. I paid $2.00 for the oldest one and
repaired it with a used HV capacitor.

exercise equipment,

None.

automation home,

Only motion sensors on some lights, because I need it. I fall too
often, even with them.

concrete driveways,

50 year old asphalt.

dimmers on our lights,

Hell no!

outdoors lights that turn themselves on,

Needed, when you have trouble seeing and walking.

Car needs-- NEW, 3 years old not 8 years old,

18 year old pickup that hasn't run in almost three months.

power windows and locks,

None

automatic transmission,

No choice on a used vehicle

air conditioning,

Hasn't worked for over seven years.



Electronic needs-- cellphones,

Cheap used one from Ebay.

internet, Being homebound, I need something.

mp3 player,

$8.00, with earphones.

computer,

$40.00, three years ago

printers,

$10.00 for a used Laser printer, over 100 used, free inkjets

Xbox,

No, thanks.

play station,

No, thanks.

bluray player,

$80, three years ago. Bought to stream free TV shows and movies.

stereo and speakers,

An early '70s Harman Kardon I bought for $3.00, over 20 years ago.
The speakers were given to me.

digital cameras,

I use a HTC EVO 4G Cellphone I bought for $6.00 on ebay and that
included shipping.


Personal needs-- expensive clothes,

Most of my clothes are what are left from when I worked full time.

expensive razors,

Dollar store disposable.

all nature of creams and salves and skin conditioners,

Get real.

expensive tennis shoes,

I haven't worn those since I left high school. I have to wear special
Diabetic shoes that cost $400+ a pair.

I'm not sure, but I think you made my point, you either don't have
these things or acquired them at very low cost.
In 1950, you didn't have the option to buy them so could live on a
single lower income, If you bought them today at normal prices, you need
two incomes, for most workers.

More categories or additions?

Don't get me wrong I like many of these, but you are right,
it often takes two working to obtain them.
Mikek

PS. I'm following a blog that has a main interest in living a happy life
without all the consumer excess, And on gaining Financial Independence-
Retiring early.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/all-the-posts-since-the-beginning-of-time/
First Blog posts at the bottom.

The forum filled with Mustachians is fun also.
> http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/

Save 30% of you income retire in 28 years.
Save 40% of you income retire in 22 years.
Save 50% of you income retire in 17 years.
Save 60% of you income retire in 12.5 years.
Assumes you live the Mustachian lifestyle.


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[krw]

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 18:33:52 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 8/22/2015 10:39 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

amdx wrote:


I think there is more to it than that.
It's all the things we think we need because they are available.
We didn't have them in 1950. Just starting, Please to add to my list
any items we didn't have in 1950, that seem like a must have now.

House needs- air conditioning,

Not till I got sick and ended up 100% disabled.

ceiling fans,

This is Florida. They came with the house.

garbage disposal,

A 32 gallon can that I haul to the landfill when it's full.

mammoth refrigerator,

Standard sized, and was given to me.

TV, no 3 tv's,

More than three, but I've only bought three in 45 years. I spent less
than $200 for all three combined.

cable,

No OTA available.

2 baths,

Came with the $37,000 house

2 car garage,

Four car, needs a new roof.

and a carport,

None

electric can opener,

None

microwave,

Several. all but one were free. I paid $2.00 for the oldest one and
repaired it with a used HV capacitor.

exercise equipment,

None.

automation home,

Only motion sensors on some lights, because I need it. I fall too
often, even with them.

concrete driveways,

50 year old asphalt.

dimmers on our lights,

Hell no!

outdoors lights that turn themselves on,

Needed, when you have trouble seeing and walking.

Car needs-- NEW, 3 years old not 8 years old,

18 year old pickup that hasn't run in almost three months.

power windows and locks,

None

automatic transmission,

No choice on a used vehicle

air conditioning,

Hasn't worked for over seven years.



Electronic needs-- cellphones,

Cheap used one from Ebay.

internet, Being homebound, I need something.

mp3 player,

$8.00, with earphones.

computer,

$40.00, three years ago

printers,

$10.00 for a used Laser printer, over 100 used, free inkjets

Xbox,

No, thanks.

play station,

No, thanks.

bluray player,

$80, three years ago. Bought to stream free TV shows and movies.

stereo and speakers,

An early '70s Harman Kardon I bought for $3.00, over 20 years ago.
The speakers were given to me.

digital cameras,

I use a HTC EVO 4G Cellphone I bought for $6.00 on ebay and that
included shipping.


Personal needs-- expensive clothes,

Most of my clothes are what are left from when I worked full time.

expensive razors,

Dollar store disposable.

all nature of creams and salves and skin conditioners,

Get real.

expensive tennis shoes,

I haven't worn those since I left high school. I have to wear special
Diabetic shoes that cost $400+ a pair.


I'm not sure, but I think you made my point, you either don't have
these things or acquired them at very low cost.
In 1950, you didn't have the option to buy them so could live on a
single lower income, If you bought them today at normal prices, you need
two incomes, for most workers.

These things are cheaper now than they ever have been. Salaries have
been stagnant, or declining for a couple of decades, though. The
Democrats want them lower yet. They're succeeding.

BTW, my wife never had to work but did for ~25 years. Work is good,
but that's another thing the Democrats want to end.

More categories or additions?

Don't get me wrong I like many of these, but you are right,
it often takes two working to obtain them.
Mikek

PS. I'm following a blog that has a main interest in living a happy life
without all the consumer excess, And on gaining Financial Independence-
Retiring early.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/all-the-posts-since-the-beginning-of-time/
First Blog posts at the bottom.

The forum filled with Mustachians is fun also.
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/

Save 30% of you income retire in 28 years.
Save 40% of you income retire in 22 years.
Save 50% of you income retire in 17 years.
Save 60% of you income retire in 12.5 years.
Assumes you live the Mustachian lifestyle.


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[Michael A. Terrell]

"dcaster@krl.org" wrote:

On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 1:15:55 PM UTC-4, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno



What a putz you are. A modern microwave actually performs the heating
job better than the 25 year old models, "new HV cap" or not.

Please explain what you mean by " perforns the heating job better ".

As far as I know the new ones operate exactly the same as the old ones.

Where does this dumb ass come up with 25 year old? Was that the last
time it had a thought? The one in use is a couple years old. It was
given to me, brand new by a thrift store to se if it was repairable. It
had been dropped. I straightened the door hinge, and tried to give it
back to the thrift store but they didn't want it. That replaced a brand
new, in the box Westinghouse that had been in storage for a year. It
worked for 15 minutes, total before the power cord melted.

The latest models use a switching power supply, instead of a heavy
transformer.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

amdx wrote:

On 8/22/2015 10:39 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

amdx wrote:


I think there is more to it than that.
It's all the things we think we need because they are available.
We didn't have them in 1950. Just starting, Please to add to my list
any items we didn't have in 1950, that seem like a must have now.

House needs- air conditioning,

Not till I got sick and ended up 100% disabled.

ceiling fans,

This is Florida. They came with the house.

garbage disposal,

A 32 gallon can that I haul to the landfill when it's full.

mammoth refrigerator,

Standard sized, and was given to me.

TV, no 3 tv's,

More than three, but I've only bought three in 45 years. I spent less
than $200 for all three combined.

cable,

No OTA available.

2 baths,

Came with the $37,000 house

2 car garage,

Four car, needs a new roof.

and a carport,

None

electric can opener,

None

microwave,

Several. all but one were free. I paid $2.00 for the oldest one and
repaired it with a used HV capacitor.

exercise equipment,

None.

automation home,

Only motion sensors on some lights, because I need it. I fall too
often, even with them.

concrete driveways,

50 year old asphalt.

dimmers on our lights,

Hell no!

outdoors lights that turn themselves on,

Needed, when you have trouble seeing and walking.

Car needs-- NEW, 3 years old not 8 years old,

18 year old pickup that hasn't run in almost three months.

power windows and locks,

None

automatic transmission,

No choice on a used vehicle

air conditioning,

Hasn't worked for over seven years.



Electronic needs-- cellphones,

Cheap used one from Ebay.

internet, Being homebound, I need something.

mp3 player,

$8.00, with earphones.

computer,

$40.00, three years ago

printers,

$10.00 for a used Laser printer, over 100 used, free inkjets

Xbox,

No, thanks.

play station,

No, thanks.

bluray player,

$80, three years ago. Bought to stream free TV shows and movies.

stereo and speakers,

An early '70s Harman Kardon I bought for $3.00, over 20 years ago.
The speakers were given to me.

digital cameras,

I use a HTC EVO 4G Cellphone I bought for $6.00 on ebay and that
included shipping.


Personal needs-- expensive clothes,

Most of my clothes are what are left from when I worked full time.

expensive razors,

Dollar store disposable.

all nature of creams and salves and skin conditioners,

Get real.

expensive tennis shoes,

I haven't worn those since I left high school. I have to wear special
Diabetic shoes that cost $400+ a pair.


I'm not sure, but I think you made my point, you either don't have
these things or acquired them at very low cost.
In 1950, you didn't have the option to buy them so could live on a
single lower income, If you bought them today at normal prices, you need
two incomes, for most workers.

I didn't exist in 1950, but a lot of these items were available at
higher costs than now.

 

[amdx]

On 8/22/2015 7:54 PM, krw wrote:

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 18:33:52 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 8/22/2015 10:39 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

amdx wrote:


I think there is more to it than that.
It's all the things we think we need because they are available.
We didn't have them in 1950. Just starting, Please to add to my list
any items we didn't have in 1950, that seem like a must have now.

House needs- air conditioning,

Not till I got sick and ended up 100% disabled.

ceiling fans,

This is Florida. They came with the house.

garbage disposal,

A 32 gallon can that I haul to the landfill when it's full.

mammoth refrigerator,

Standard sized, and was given to me.

TV, no 3 tv's,

More than three, but I've only bought three in 45 years. I spent less
than $200 for all three combined.

cable,

No OTA available.

2 baths,

Came with the $37,000 house

2 car garage,

Four car, needs a new roof.

and a carport,

None

electric can opener,

None

microwave,

Several. all but one were free. I paid $2.00 for the oldest one and
repaired it with a used HV capacitor.

exercise equipment,

None.

automation home,

Only motion sensors on some lights, because I need it. I fall too
often, even with them.

concrete driveways,

50 year old asphalt.

dimmers on our lights,

Hell no!

outdoors lights that turn themselves on,

Needed, when you have trouble seeing and walking.

Car needs-- NEW, 3 years old not 8 years old,

18 year old pickup that hasn't run in almost three months.

power windows and locks,

None

automatic transmission,

No choice on a used vehicle

air conditioning,

Hasn't worked for over seven years.



Electronic needs-- cellphones,

Cheap used one from Ebay.

internet, Being homebound, I need something.

mp3 player,

$8.00, with earphones.

computer,

$40.00, three years ago

printers,

$10.00 for a used Laser printer, over 100 used, free inkjets

Xbox,

No, thanks.

play station,

No, thanks.

bluray player,

$80, three years ago. Bought to stream free TV shows and movies.

stereo and speakers,

An early '70s Harman Kardon I bought for $3.00, over 20 years ago.
The speakers were given to me.

digital cameras,

I use a HTC EVO 4G Cellphone I bought for $6.00 on ebay and that
included shipping.


Personal needs-- expensive clothes,

Most of my clothes are what are left from when I worked full time.

expensive razors,

Dollar store disposable.

all nature of creams and salves and skin conditioners,

Get real.

expensive tennis shoes,

I haven't worn those since I left high school. I have to wear special
Diabetic shoes that cost $400+ a pair.


I'm not sure, but I think you made my point, you either don't have
these things or acquired them at very low cost.
In 1950, you didn't have the option to buy them so could live on a
single lower income, If you bought them today at normal prices, you need
two incomes, for most workers.

These things are cheaper now than they ever have been. Salaries have
been stagnant, or declining for a couple of decades, though. The
Democrats want them lower yet. They're succeeding.

BTW, my wife never had to work but did for ~25 years. Work is good,
but that's another thing the Democrats want to end.

That's all good.
"Last year, (2013) 50 percent of all American workers made less than
$28,031, and 39 percent of all American workers made less than $20,000.
Read more at;

http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/10/50-percent-american-workers-make-less-28031-dollars-year/
More than 1/2 of the earners do not earn like you.

Mikek

PS. I'm following a blog that has a main interest in living a happy life
without all the consumer excess, And on gaining Financial Independence-
Retiring early.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/all-the-posts-since-the-beginning-of-time/
First Blog posts at the bottom.

The forum filled with Mustachians is fun also.
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/

Save 30% of you income retire in 28 years.
Save 40% of you income retire in 22 years.
Save 50% of you income retire in 17 years.
Save 60% of you income retire in 12.5 years.
Assumes you live the Mustachian lifestyle.

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[amdx]

On 8/19/2015 4:22 PM, amdx wrote:

On 8/19/2015 12:05 PM, rickman wrote:

Just a note my electric costs have went from $0.119 kWh to $0.15 kWh
during Obama.

The nerve of him raising your rates like that! It will be nice to get
someone else in office so those rates will go back down. Funny though,
my electric rates haven't gone up much at all. I guess he only raised
the rates of those he doesn't like.


"How much is "not all that much"> Where are you and what fuel produces
your electricity?

Are you unaware of what's going on in the coal industry?
And thus the price of electricity, at least until they change over to
Nat. Gas.
Do some research it is amazing all jobs lost mostly because of EPA regs,
that Obama pushed to, as he said, To necessarily bankrupt coal.

“Under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would
necessarily skyrocket. Even regardless of what I say about whether coal
is good or bad,” Obama said in 2008.

From the NY Times,

"Peabody Energy and Arch Coal, the nation’s two largest producers — may
just be a matter of time, based on their recent stock performance.
Peabody shares, which traded at more than $16 less than a year ago, hit
99 cents this week, and Arch shares have fallen to $1 from more than
$33, making them among the biggest losers this year in the Standard &
Poor’s 500-stock index."

Mikek

Hey rickman, did you have any response after learning what Obama did
and is doing to coal?
Mikek

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[krw]

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 20:55:58 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 8/22/2015 7:54 PM, krw wrote:
On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 18:33:52 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 8/22/2015 10:39 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

amdx wrote:


I think there is more to it than that.
It's all the things we think we need because they are available.
We didn't have them in 1950. Just starting, Please to add to my list
any items we didn't have in 1950, that seem like a must have now.

House needs- air conditioning,

Not till I got sick and ended up 100% disabled.

ceiling fans,

This is Florida. They came with the house.

garbage disposal,

A 32 gallon can that I haul to the landfill when it's full.

mammoth refrigerator,

Standard sized, and was given to me.

TV, no 3 tv's,

More than three, but I've only bought three in 45 years. I spent less
than $200 for all three combined.

cable,

No OTA available.

2 baths,

Came with the $37,000 house

2 car garage,

Four car, needs a new roof.

and a carport,

None

electric can opener,

None

microwave,

Several. all but one were free. I paid $2.00 for the oldest one and
repaired it with a used HV capacitor.

exercise equipment,

None.

automation home,

Only motion sensors on some lights, because I need it. I fall too
often, even with them.

concrete driveways,

50 year old asphalt.

dimmers on our lights,

Hell no!

outdoors lights that turn themselves on,

Needed, when you have trouble seeing and walking.

Car needs-- NEW, 3 years old not 8 years old,

18 year old pickup that hasn't run in almost three months.

power windows and locks,

None

automatic transmission,

No choice on a used vehicle

air conditioning,

Hasn't worked for over seven years.



Electronic needs-- cellphones,

Cheap used one from Ebay.

internet, Being homebound, I need something.

mp3 player,

$8.00, with earphones.

computer,

$40.00, three years ago

printers,

$10.00 for a used Laser printer, over 100 used, free inkjets

Xbox,

No, thanks.

play station,

No, thanks.

bluray player,

$80, three years ago. Bought to stream free TV shows and movies.

stereo and speakers,

An early '70s Harman Kardon I bought for $3.00, over 20 years ago.
The speakers were given to me.

digital cameras,

I use a HTC EVO 4G Cellphone I bought for $6.00 on ebay and that
included shipping.


Personal needs-- expensive clothes,

Most of my clothes are what are left from when I worked full time.

expensive razors,

Dollar store disposable.

all nature of creams and salves and skin conditioners,

Get real.

expensive tennis shoes,

I haven't worn those since I left high school. I have to wear special
Diabetic shoes that cost $400+ a pair.


I'm not sure, but I think you made my point, you either don't have
these things or acquired them at very low cost.
In 1950, you didn't have the option to buy them so could live on a
single lower income, If you bought them today at normal prices, you need
two incomes, for most workers.

These things are cheaper now than they ever have been. Salaries have
been stagnant, or declining for a couple of decades, though. The
Democrats want them lower yet. They're succeeding.

BTW, my wife never had to work but did for ~25 years. Work is good,
but that's another thing the Democrats want to end.




That's all good.
"Last year, (2013) 50 percent of all American workers made less than
$28,031, and 39 percent of all American workers made less than $20,000.
Read more at;
http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/10/50-percent-american-workers-make-less-28031-dollars-year/
More than 1/2 of the earners do not earn like you.

Half the people spend more than they make and that ratio doesn't
change much with income.
> Mikek

 

On Thursday, August 20, 2015 at 9:56:26 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

On 8/19/2015 9:08 PM, dagmargoo...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 12:34:18 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 8/17/2015 9:32 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
Goodbye to the American Dream... Thanks to Obama...

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/new-677511-millennials-economic.html

...Jim Thompson


Even if all that is true, it doesn't effect any individual that
wants to work hard save money, invest and retire at 40.

If you earn $50,000*, save 20% of your income for 20 years invest at
10%** you will have have $797,800. Not a lot to retire on, but more net
worth than 90% of the population between 18 and 65 years old.
$797,810 with a 4% withdrawal rate is $32,000. aah, keep the wife
working ;-) Note that $32K should be mostly tax free, and no FICA either.

* includes inflation adjustment.
** 60 year average stock market return

For those interested,
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/

And the full dose.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/all-the-posts-since-the-beginning-of-time/
Start at the bottom.

Or, meet Mr. Money Mustache.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/06/meet-mr-money-mustache/

Don't miss the Mr. Money Mustache Forum.
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/index.php

Hilarious. Thanks!


Ok, but not enough context for me to know if you think the concept is
neat or BS.

Oh, sorry. I meant that MMM's pragmatic stoicism and wit make a
delightful combo.

It's completely possible. I moved out at seventeen, from Europe to the
west coast. Got two full-time minimum-wage jobs (*), lived on a quarter,
and saved the rest (for university, etc.).
*one paid $.25 over

Once upon an America we lauded economical living and lampooned waste or living
beyond one's means.

I'm late in life for the RE part, but it turns out we did a fair job
of living the MMM life, before we learned about it.
On the other hand I have no interest in living on MMM's income.
If you read between the lines MMM's networth has probably grown
to 3 x what it was when he retired.

MMM's success is fine, but forget not that money is just something you trade
for stuff. Once you have enough stuff (a choice), you're set.

btw, here is a program that calculates your odds of running out of money
before you die. You put in data like total portfolio, yearly withdrawal,
inflation rate, expected SS, expected retirement time, etc.
It uses historical stock market returns, Makes a run , say 30 yrs, from
1880 to 1910, then 1881 to 1911, all the way to 1985 to 2015. Then finds
out how many times out of the 115 stock market runs you would have run
out of money. As they say historical return do not predict future
returns, but...
The program has lots of possible adjustments or you can just use it's
assumptions. Just read so you know what they are. I think the assumed
inflation rate (at 3%) is low, I bumped it up.

http://www.firecalc.com/

See the tabs just below the top that read as follows, to make adjustments.
Start Here---Other Income/Spending---Not Retired?---Spending Models Your
Portfolio---Portfolio Changes

Always an interesting exercise, yet the precision is kinda overkill given
that a dime's worth of silver bought over a half a gallon of gasoline in the
mid 1960's--and that silver dime still will--but a dime itself will only
buy you 5% of that today.

IOW, the 'fair share' people show a high success of using the government to take
a big chunk whatever you might have or save, whether through inflation, tax,
or debt, to replace whatever they failed to set aside for themselves.

(Speaking of, it's amusing to see socialist candidate Bernie Sanders,
after 24 years in Congress earning a congressman's pay (currently $174K +
expenses & bennies), reporting a net worth of ~$500K. Imagine what a
Mustachian would have been able to save in that time.)

So money's fine and all that, but the greater security lies in living
smart.

Cheers,
James Arthur

"Economy is the art of making the most of life." --G.B. Shaw (a socialist)

 

On Sunday, August 23, 2015 at 12:29:08 AM UTC-4, krw wrote:

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 20:55:58 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 8/22/2015 7:54 PM, krw wrote:
On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 18:33:52 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 8/22/2015 10:39 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

amdx wrote:


I think there is more to it than that.
It's all the things we think we need because they are available.
We didn't have them in 1950. Just starting, Please to add to my list
any items we didn't have in 1950, that seem like a must have now.

House needs- air conditioning,

Not till I got sick and ended up 100% disabled.

ceiling fans,

This is Florida. They came with the house.

garbage disposal,

A 32 gallon can that I haul to the landfill when it's full.

mammoth refrigerator,

Standard sized, and was given to me.

TV, no 3 tv's,

More than three, but I've only bought three in 45 years. I spent less
than $200 for all three combined.

cable,

No OTA available.

2 baths,

Came with the $37,000 house

2 car garage,

Four car, needs a new roof.

and a carport,

None

electric can opener,

None

microwave,

Several. all but one were free. I paid $2.00 for the oldest one and
repaired it with a used HV capacitor.

exercise equipment,

None.

automation home,

Only motion sensors on some lights, because I need it. I fall too
often, even with them.

concrete driveways,

50 year old asphalt.

dimmers on our lights,

Hell no!

outdoors lights that turn themselves on,

Needed, when you have trouble seeing and walking.

Car needs-- NEW, 3 years old not 8 years old,

18 year old pickup that hasn't run in almost three months.

power windows and locks,

None

automatic transmission,

No choice on a used vehicle

air conditioning,

Hasn't worked for over seven years.



Electronic needs-- cellphones,

Cheap used one from Ebay.

internet, Being homebound, I need something.

mp3 player,

$8.00, with earphones.

computer,

$40.00, three years ago

printers,

$10.00 for a used Laser printer, over 100 used, free inkjets

Xbox,

No, thanks.

play station,

No, thanks.

bluray player,

$80, three years ago. Bought to stream free TV shows and movies.

stereo and speakers,

An early '70s Harman Kardon I bought for $3.00, over 20 years ago.
The speakers were given to me.

digital cameras,

I use a HTC EVO 4G Cellphone I bought for $6.00 on ebay and that
included shipping.


Personal needs-- expensive clothes,

Most of my clothes are what are left from when I worked full time.

expensive razors,

Dollar store disposable.

all nature of creams and salves and skin conditioners,

Get real.

expensive tennis shoes,

I haven't worn those since I left high school. I have to wear special
Diabetic shoes that cost $400+ a pair.


I'm not sure, but I think you made my point, you either don't have
these things or acquired them at very low cost.
In 1950, you didn't have the option to buy them so could live on a
single lower income, If you bought them today at normal prices, you need
two incomes, for most workers.

These things are cheaper now than they ever have been. Salaries have
been stagnant, or declining for a couple of decades, though. The
Democrats want them lower yet. They're succeeding.

BTW, my wife never had to work but did for ~25 years. Work is good,
but that's another thing the Democrats want to end.




That's all good.
"Last year, (2013) 50 percent of all American workers made less than
$28,031, and 39 percent of all American workers made less than $20,000.
Read more at;
http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/10/50-percent-american-workers-make-less-28031-dollars-year/
More than 1/2 of the earners do not earn like you.

Half the people spend more than they make and that ratio doesn't
change much with income.

Or with political or social station.

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, 24 August 2015 01:40:29 UTC+10, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Thursday, August 20, 2015 at 9:56:26 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 8/19/2015 9:08 PM, dagmargoo...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 12:34:18 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 8/17/2015 9:32 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
Goodbye to the American Dream... Thanks to Obama...
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/new-677511-millennials-economic..html

<snip>

IOW, the 'fair share' people show a high success of using the government to
take a big chunk whatever you might have or save, whether through inflation, > tax, or debt, to replace whatever they failed to set aside for themselves.

James Arthur thinks he lives in a country that still works the way France did back in Bastiac's time (and Bastiac died in 1850).

The Us government now spends a lot more on roads, education and and all the other public services than the French government were spending then, and Bastiac still resented that minimal outlay, financed as it was from taxes on his income.

James Arthur is just as resentful, and no wit more conscious of what government does for him.

(Speaking of, it's amusing to see socialist candidate Bernie Sanders,
after 24 years in Congress earning a congressman's pay (currently $174K +
expenses & bennies), reporting a net worth of ~$500K. Imagine what a
Mustachian would have been able to save in that time.)

He probably wouldn't have done kind of work that a conscientious congressman would be expected to get done, having economised himself into deep-frozen ill-health, but he would have made James Arthur proud of him.

So money's fine and all that, but the greater security lies in living
smart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_Level:_Why_More_Equal_Societies_Almost_Always_Do_Better

preferably in a country where the rich don't have their thumbs firmly on the balance of social justice, so they end up get richer, and the remaining 90-odd% of the population get poorer, as happens in the USA today (and has been happening since Reagan came to power).

The US constitution was designed to let this happen. For a while the rich in the US had enough enlightened self-interest to let the poor do well enough to become sufficiently well-fed, well-housed and well-educated enough to be a thoroughly productive work force, but in the last 35 years, US capital has been out-sourcing it's labour needs, and short-changing the local work force.

> "Economy is the art of making the most of life." --G.B. Shaw (a socialist)

But mainly an author and self-publicist. He did manage to get Beatrice and Sydney Webb re-buried in Westminster Abbey, not all that long after they'd died.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney