OT: Bon Voyage UK!

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 10:05:52 AM UTC+11, bule...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> Democracy in action. The will of the people has been carried out. About 2 years too late, but the entire western world should rejoice that free people can choose their own destiny in spite of their leaders desires.

Lincoln claimed that you can't fool all the people all the time, but Brexit and Trump remind us that you can fool enough of them to do quite a lot of damage.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 10:39:24 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Fri, 31 Jan 2020 15:00:35 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

do you live in the UK?

Once upon a time I did, yes. Now, however, I'm seriously thinking
about moving back.

In as far as Cursitor Doom can manage serious thinking. Since he
sub-contracts that job to the Daily Mail, Russia Today and ZeroHedge you can get a feel for what he thinks "serious" means.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[bitrex]

On 1/31/20 6:24 PM, bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote:

I take it that you are not pleased with the people getting what they wanted

Some educated Brexiteers seem to be fond of H.L. Mencken's writings, for
what reason I don't know as it seems unlikely he'd have been
particularly fond of them or want to hug them like long-lost brothers.

Mencken might have said something like "The People tend to get what they
want eventually, to their eventual deep regret."

Or more crassly: "The People tend to get a big helping of what they
want, with no Vaseline, right where the Sun don't shine."

 

[bitrex]

On 1/31/20 8:42 PM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:
ets cancer, they look for anything, now they are down to talcum powder
causing it. Cancer is caused by inferior genes. eventually it will be
"Did you use dihydrogen monoxide and get cancer ? Well we are suing god
and you may be entitled..."

Entitled. Entitled to a fucking bullet. A Hydra-Shok, one of the deadliest bullets in the world and when I dip the in garlic juice even better. (causes blood poisoning) I asked on the net if I did it now would they still be good like in six month and got no answer... so I will wait until the day before the election because if the demobrats stay true to form, their shit will be much worse when Trump wins again. And he will. They made it so just like last time. That is why I will be riding shotgun with family after the election.

Sovereignty. Freedom.

The philosophical problem with Freedom and Democracy, rather like the
ones we all know about Communism, is that they're both fine ideas "in
theory" except that in the case of the former The People as a unit tend
to be rather un-creative in coming up with things they would do if they
had all that freedom they purport to desire.

I think many would be bored with the responsibility of coming up with
their own activities if they truly experienced it, and true
power/sovereignty mostly involves a nasty large amount of paperwork,
accounting, and responsibility. Y'know, boring drudgery-stuff.

When I hear Westerners/Americans talking about their need for "freedom"
what I mostly hear is them talking about the freedom to choose who holds
their leash. Generally this is whomever tells them they are the nicest
boys. Good boy. here is a treat.

 

[John Robertson]

On 2020/01/31 6:08 p.m., Bill Sloman wrote:

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 10:54:23 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2020 23:33:19 +0000, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

N Ireland will probably go first, and with that
the UK will cease to exist.

Hint: it is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain
and Northern Ireland".

If the Scots and the N. Irish would prefer to leave, then I for one
would welcome that, and wish them all the best of luck for the future.

They will probably be followed by the Welsh, the people who live on Cornwall and West of England, the Midlands and the North.

The Home Counties are probably convinced that they can make millions by selling one another financial services, but even they may realise that you can't eat invoices before they starve to death.

Smaller, non-federalised states operating in peaceful economic
competition and non-coercive co-operation with each other are the way
of the future. In short, "reverse-globalism" if you will.

It's call anarcho-syndicalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism

Noam Chomsky and Naomi Klein think highly of it. It's the basis of the cooperative movement.

It's a bit unspecific about how higher-level cooperation might work, but then so is Cursitor Doom.

It worked so well for Greek city-states, thinking small that is. Their
strategy sure won against the Romans! Didn't it?

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/rome-vs-greece-a-little-known-clash-of-empires-1.3523821

These fools don't see they are playing into the US, Chinese, and Russian
oligarchs interests.

Divide and conquer!

The marching morons...

John :-#(#

 

Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> wrote in
news:lc993fpl2035bvhlg5nniui01au63gkkv9@4ax.com:

In about 45 minutes from now, the UK will finally leave the EU.
I'll be raising a glass or two of bubbly to the British (and
especially the English and the Welsh) for having the fortitude to
face down all the stooges, the scare-mongers, the closet
Federalists, the 5th Columnists, the Commies and the rest of the
'enemy within' - both inside parliament and out - who have thrown
every obstacle they could think of in an attempt to thwart and
usurp the democratic Will of the people. They'd previously
succeeded in Greece, they'd succeeded in Italy, they'd succeeded
in Spain - but they didn't succeed in Britain!

Cheers, Brits! :-D
"We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not
comprised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed. And
should European statesmen address us with the question, 'Will you
join us in this undertaking?' we should reply, “Nay Sir, for we
are an island race and we dwell among our own.”

- Winston Spencer Churchill

Resistance is feudal!

Damned islanders!

 

[Robert Baer]

bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote:

Democracy in action. The will of the people has been carried out. About 2 years too late, but the entire western world should rejoice that free people can choose their own destiny in spite of their leaders desires.

Thee speaketh of Trump?

 

On Friday, 31 January 2020 23:42:15 UTC, John Robertson wrote:

On 2020/01/31 3:24 p.m., bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote:

I take it that you are not pleased with the people getting what they wanted


They were lied to about the costs of staying in the EU, and were not
told the costs of leaving. So, yes, the tiny majority that voted for
leaving was misled. That doesn't matter to the Brexit camp as they would
have said anything to get their way.

that's pretty funny

Like I said, the Chinese and the Russians are thrilled that the EU is
weaker. The White House is also happy, as it is easier to bully a small
country like the UK than the entire EU.

Idiots.

Ever heard of the apparently obsolete saying - "United We Stand, Divided
We Fall!"

John :-#(#

Ah, so you'll all be becoming Amerexico? Or maybe you'll take that philosophy a step further and become Amerussia.


NT

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 02:51:51 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, 31 January 2020 23:42:15 UTC, John Robertson wrote:

They were lied to about the costs of staying in the EU, and were not
told the costs of leaving. So, yes, the tiny majority that voted for
leaving was misled. That doesn't matter to the Brexit camp as they would
have said anything to get their way.

that's pretty funny

It certainly is. Robertson - like all remaining Remoaners - clearly
lives in some alternative universe to everyone else. He's probably
convinced in his own peculiar mind that the UK hasn't, as from last
night, already left. :-D
--

"We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not comprised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed. And should European statesmen address us with the question, 'Will you join us in this undertaking?' we should reply, “Nay Sir, for we are an island race and we dwell among our own.”

- Winston Spencer Churchill

 

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 4:29:24 AM UTC-5, Robert Baer wrote:

bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote:
Democracy in action. The will of the people has been carried out. About 2 years too late, but the entire western world should rejoice that free people can choose their own destiny in spite of their leaders desires.

Thee speaketh of Trump?

No, but they are both tied together. The entrenched political machines in the EU and in the USA are working against the best interests of their own citizens. And both in Britain, and in the USA - the people - decided to shake things up. That is true democracy in action. The people can decide that real change is needed. All advocates of democracy should be really happy that the people have made such a high - G maneuver and the system is changing to accommodate. In Trump's case, he is actually trying to repel the high G maneuvers that the politicians want to impose on our country. Those are - mass immigration, reduction in oil for the common man, taking away parental rights... and all the normal commie agenda items guess you could say.

 

[JM]

On 31/01/2020 23:20, John Robertson wrote:

On 2020/01/31 3:05 p.m., bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote:
Democracy in action. The will of the people has been carried out.
About 2 years too late, but the entire western world should rejoice
that free people can choose their own destiny in spite of their
leaders desires.


Time for Texas to secede then I assume. There are quite a few Texans who
would agree.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/could-texas-secede-from-the-united-states-if-it-wanted-to/


Perhaps Florida should also separate, and then why not Kansas, Maine, or
R.I.? Are Washington, Oregon, and BC still looking at creating Cascadia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_%28independence_movement%29

That makes about as much sense.

The Chinese and Russians are rejoicing that the EU is weaker competition.

The UK is going to get smaller when Scotland separates - if you think
that isn't going to happen after the fiasco of Brexit you are not facing
the new reality.

John :-#(#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-FT3W-rXsA

 

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 6:04:18 PM UTC-5, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 2:40:34 AM UTC+11, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 4:29:24 AM UTC-5, Robert Baer wrote:
bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote:
Democracy in action. The will of the people has been carried out. About 2 years too late, but the entire western world should rejoice that free people can choose their own destiny in spite of their leaders desires.

Thee speaketh of Trump?

No, but they are both tied together. The entrenched political machines in the EU and in the USA are working against the best interests of their own citizens.

The entrenched political machine in the USA is owned and run by the top 1% of the income distribution. It looks after it's own interests, and always has. "The people that own the country ought to govern it" goes back to John Jay, who was one of the Founding Fathers.

The EU doesn't the same problem to anything like the same extent, and looks after it's own citizens a whole lot better, if perhaps not in the way that rightwing nitwits find ideal.


And both in Britain, and in the USA - the people - decided to shake things up.

It's more that people with enough money to buy political lobbyists have become numerous enough to sustain a lobbying industry that is big enough to infleunce the gullible on a large scale.

That is true democracy in action.

When the will of the people is heavily influenced by rich lunatics - the Koch brothers come to mind - democracy is being exploited in a most undemocratic manner.

The people can decide that real change is needed.

They can also be fooled into thinking that some remarkably foolish changes are desirable. Brexit does come to mind.

All advocates of democracy should be really happy that the people have made such a high - G maneuver and the system is changing to accommodate.

Depends what you mean by "democracy". Getting the gullible mob to adopt ideas that you happen to like is going to make you happy, in the short term. That happiness does tend to evaporate when you find out that ideas weren't quite as sound as you initially imagined.

In Trump's case, he is actually trying to repel the high G maneuvers that the politicians want to impose on our country.

Trump can't be bothered to find out enough about the way the system works to do anything useful. His demented enthusiasm for trade wars is a fairly obvious example.

He does known how to sell his silly ideas, and has no inhibitions about lying about their effects.

Those are - mass immigration, reduction in oil for the common man, taking away parental rights... and all the normal commie agenda items guess you could say.

The US has always attracted and exploited immigrants. Trump hasn't done a thing to stop that. He has demonised illegal immigrants because it is one of those right-wing themes that is easy to sell to the gullible, but his border wall was always a fatuous joke.

"Reduction in oil for the common man" is presumably the right-wing way of referring to dealing with climate change. Trump can't be bothered even trying to think about the scientific evidence that climate change is real and needs to be slowed down, and is happy to pander to the fossil carbon extraction industry's desire to keep on making money by wrecking the climate.

"Taking away parental rights" is what Trump's immigration policy does to refugees who show up on the southern border of the US. It's standard totalitarian behaviour, and the nastier communist regimes have shared it with the more unpleasant right wing regimes, like Augusto Pinochet's in Chile (installed by the CIA).

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Pinochet was probably the best foreign policy action made by the USA since the 1950's. Chile was on track to become Cuba # 2 and now they are doing OK. Over the long haul, the horrors of communism are 10 times worse than the horrors of a guy like Pinochet. How come you guys never get your panties in a bunch about places like Cuba and Venezuela?

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 2:40:34 AM UTC+11, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 4:29:24 AM UTC-5, Robert Baer wrote:
bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote:
Democracy in action. The will of the people has been carried out. About 2 years too late, but the entire western world should rejoice that free people can choose their own destiny in spite of their leaders desires.

Thee speaketh of Trump?

No, but they are both tied together. The entrenched political machines in the EU and in the USA are working against the best interests of their own citizens.

The entrenched political machine in the USA is owned and run by the top 1% of the income distribution. It looks after it's own interests, and always has. "The people that own the country ought to govern it" goes back to John Jay, who was one of the Founding Fathers.

The EU doesn't the same problem to anything like the same extent, and looks after it's own citizens a whole lot better, if perhaps not in the way that rightwing nitwits find ideal.


> And both in Britain, and in the USA - the people - decided to shake things up.

It's more that people with enough money to buy political lobbyists have become numerous enough to sustain a lobbying industry that is big enough to infleunce the gullible on a large scale.

> That is true democracy in action.

When the will of the people is heavily influenced by rich lunatics - the Koch brothers come to mind - democracy is being exploited in a most undemocratic manner.

> The people can decide that real change is needed.

They can also be fooled into thinking that some remarkably foolish changes are desirable. Brexit does come to mind.

> All advocates of democracy should be really happy that the people have made such a high - G maneuver and the system is changing to accommodate.

Depends what you mean by "democracy". Getting the gullible mob to adopt ideas that you happen to like is going to make you happy, in the short term. That happiness does tend to evaporate when you find out that ideas weren't quite as sound as you initially imagined.

> In Trump's case, he is actually trying to repel the high G maneuvers that the politicians want to impose on our country.

Trump can't be bothered to find out enough about the way the system works to do anything useful. His demented enthusiasm for trade wars is a fairly obvious example.

He does known how to sell his silly ideas, and has no inhibitions about lying about their effects.

> Those are - mass immigration, reduction in oil for the common man, taking away parental rights... and all the normal commie agenda items guess you could say.

The US has always attracted and exploited immigrants. Trump hasn't done a thing to stop that. He has demonised illegal immigrants because it is one of those right-wing themes that is easy to sell to the gullible, but his border wall was always a fatuous joke.

"Reduction in oil for the common man" is presumably the right-wing way of referring to dealing with climate change. Trump can't be bothered even trying to think about the scientific evidence that climate change is real and needs to be slowed down, and is happy to pander to the fossil carbon extraction industry's desire to keep on making money by wrecking the climate.

"Taking away parental rights" is what Trump's immigration policy does to refugees who show up on the southern border of the US. It's standard totalitarian behaviour, and the nastier communist regimes have shared it with the more unpleasant right wing regimes, like Augusto Pinochet's in Chile (installed by the CIA).

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 10:15:01 AM UTC+11, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 6:04:18 PM UTC-5, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 2:40:34 AM UTC+11, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 4:29:24 AM UTC-5, Robert Baer wrote:
bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote:
Democracy in action. The will of the people has been carried out. About 2 years too late, but the entire western world should rejoice that free people can choose their own destiny in spite of their leaders desires.

Thee speaketh of Trump?

No, but they are both tied together. The entrenched political machines in the EU and in the USA are working against the best interests of their own citizens.

The entrenched political machine in the USA is owned and run by the top 1% of the income distribution. It looks after it's own interests, and always has. "The people that own the country ought to govern it" goes back to John Jay, who was one of the Founding Fathers.

The EU doesn't the same problem to anything like the same extent, and looks after it's own citizens a whole lot better, if perhaps not in the way that rightwing nitwits find ideal.


And both in Britain, and in the USA - the people - decided to shake things up.

It's more that people with enough money to buy political lobbyists have become numerous enough to sustain a lobbying industry that is big enough to infleunce the gullible on a large scale.

That is true democracy in action.

When the will of the people is heavily influenced by rich lunatics - the Koch brothers come to mind - democracy is being exploited in a most undemocratic manner.

The people can decide that real change is needed.

They can also be fooled into thinking that some remarkably foolish changes are desirable. Brexit does come to mind.

All advocates of democracy should be really happy that the people have made such a high - G maneuver and the system is changing to accommodate.

Depends what you mean by "democracy". Getting the gullible mob to adopt ideas that you happen to like is going to make you happy, in the short term. That happiness does tend to evaporate when you find out that ideas weren't quite as sound as you initially imagined.

In Trump's case, he is actually trying to repel the high G maneuvers that the politicians want to impose on our country.

Trump can't be bothered to find out enough about the way the system works to do anything useful. His demented enthusiasm for trade wars is a fairly obvious example.

He does known how to sell his silly ideas, and has no inhibitions about lying about their effects.

Those are - mass immigration, reduction in oil for the common man, taking away parental rights... and all the normal commie agenda items guess you could say.

The US has always attracted and exploited immigrants. Trump hasn't done a thing to stop that. He has demonised illegal immigrants because it is one of those right-wing themes that is easy to sell to the gullible, but his border wall was always a fatuous joke.

"Reduction in oil for the common man" is presumably the right-wing way of referring to dealing with climate change. Trump can't be bothered even trying to think about the scientific evidence that climate change is real and needs to be slowed down, and is happy to pander to the fossil carbon extraction industry's desire to keep on making money by wrecking the climate.

"Taking away parental rights" is what Trump's immigration policy does to refugees who show up on the southern border of the US. It's standard totalitarian behaviour, and the nastier communist regimes have shared it with the more unpleasant right wing regimes, like Augusto Pinochet's in Chile (installed by the CIA).

Pinochet was probably the best foreign policy action made by the USA since the 1950's.

You would have like Contragate as well. It got almost as many people murdered, and made any number of right-wing psychopaths very happy.

> Chile was on track to become Cuba # 2 and now they are doing OK.

And what exactly - is wrong with Cuba? It has better health care the the US at a fraction of the price.

Pinochet made a horrible mess of Chile, killed 3000 people and persuaded some 200,000 people to leave the country. They finally got rid of him in 1990 and are now recovering, but he did an enormous amount of damage

> Over the long haul, the horrors of communism are 10 times worse than the horrors of a guy like Pinochet. How come you guys never get your panties in a bunch about places like Cuba and Venezuela?

Cuba seems to work fine, for a country that has been systematically impoverished by its nearest neighbour. It sits at 45th on the life expectancy league table, just ahead of the USA (which is 46th).

https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

Venezuela is a failed state, and the psychopathic creeps that are now running the country like to claim that they are socialists, when in fact they are the same kind of totalitarian half-wits that run most communist regimes.

Right-wing nitwits like you can't distinguish between "Communists" who believe in the leading role of the communist party, which makes them undemocratic - a feature that got Karl Marx and the the proto-communists slung out ot the international socialist movement in 1871 - and democratic socialists, who are running quite a few countries tolerably successfully.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
news:a4feccd5-f9c4-4019-ba98-5c43d4d246a5@googlegroups.com:

Cuba seems to work fine, for a country that has been
systematically impoverished by its nearest neighbour.

Cuba's people were impoverished by the Cuban government. And jailed
and tortured and killed.

You are a godamned idiot to blame the US for the standard of living
in Cuba. The people are great... their governance is not, and they
will tell you that.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 11:15:14 AM UTC+11, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
news:a4feccd5-f9c4-4019-ba98-5c43d4d246a5@googlegroups.com:

Cuba seems to work fine, for a country that has been
systematically impoverished by its nearest neighbour.

Cuba's people were impoverished by the Cuban government. And jailed
and tortured and killed.

As they were by Batista's regime before Casto kicked him out.

The difference is that US interests - they owned the sugar plantations, and the US Mafia did well out of the gambling and prostitution - creamed off a lot of the profits, and were happy to turn a blind eye.

The US attitude that Castro was an evil communist has lot more to do with the fact that he wasn't being evil in way that benefited US interests than anything else.

You are a godamned idiot to blame the US for the standard of living
in Cuba. The people are great... their governance is not, and they
will tell you that.

They know exactly what US right-wing nitwits want to hear, and it's usually worth their while to tell that story.

If Cuba is so badly run by it's current regime, how come such a poor country has
a marginally higher life expectancy than the US?

https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

The idiocy here is all yours.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Piotr Wyderski]

Cursitor Doom wrote:

In about 45 minutes from now, the UK will finally leave the EU. I'll
be raising a glass or two of bubbly to the British

I concur, thank you for Brexit and especially this entire Monty Python's
Flying Circus team that was implementing it. Fantastic speculation
opportunities on the GBP exchange rates, hitched a few rides. Honestly,
very much appreciated! Godspeed!

Minor disadvantage: Farnell is no longer an EU company, no reason to
prefer it to Mouser now. Will need to find my passport as well, the
ID will no longer suffice on the airport.

Best regards, Piotr

 

[Piotr Wyderski]

John Robertson wrote:

> The Chinese and Russians are rejoicing that the EU is weaker competition.

The Russians -- sure, but the Chinese? Where is that Europe, anyhow? Oh,
look, Zhang Wei, *there*... You are mixing leagues, 'm afraid.

> The UK is going to get smaller when Scotland separates

215 nuclear warheads and 4 boomers look more than enough to ensure a
merry future of the kingdom.

Best regards, Piotr

 

[Piotr Wyderski]

bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote:

> Democracy in action. The will of the people has been carried out. About 2 years too late, but the entire western world should rejoice that free people can choose their own destiny in spite of their leaders desires.

Now let the free people of Scotland choose their own destiny and we can
call it a day.

Best regards, Piotr

 

On Sun, 2 Feb 2020 10:48:25 +0000, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 02/02/20 10:18, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
John Robertson wrote:

The Chinese and Russians are rejoicing that the EU is weaker competition.

The Russians -- sure, but the Chinese? Where is that Europe, anyhow? Oh, look,
Zhang Wei, *there*... You are mixing leagues, 'm afraid.

The Chinese are not like that any more.

Politically/militarily they are rapidly expanding on the world stage.
There are even a surprisingly large number of Chinese tourists in
the UK, and they crop up in surprising places, for example Kidlington
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-37820663

Sadly, China has discovered Truckee.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"