Nuisance fastners - winge

[Sylvia Else]

On 12/02/2011 2:43 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2011-02-11, Sylvia Else<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are still quite a
way from the cool air, and so the result is not as effective as it might
be. If I could reverse the direction of flow, then I could also turn
then fan around, so that the blades would be much closer to the window.

I considered simply building a duct, but the cost of materials was
excessive.

I guess you didn't consider cardboard and packing tape then
or a cheap plastic bucket?

The fan is too big for a plastic bucket. I considered cardboard but it
was far from clear to me that it was going to be strong enough without
bracing that would further complicate the task.

This isn't a research project. I was looking for a solution that would
definitely work, and be robust.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 12/02/2011 3:03 PM, atec77 wrote:

On 12/02/2011 1:43 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2011-02-11, Sylvia Else<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are still quite a
way from the cool air, and so the result is not as effective as it might
be. If I could reverse the direction of flow, then I could also turn
then fan around, so that the blades would be much closer to the window.

I considered simply building a duct, but the cost of materials was
excessive.

I guess you didn't consider cardboard and packing tape then
or a cheap plastic bucket?




I can think of another use for a bucket in sylivas case

Yes, I can use it to throw-up into whenever I imagine your face.

Sylvia.

 

[F Murtz]

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 12/02/2011 2:43 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2011-02-11, Sylvia Else<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are still quite a
way from the cool air, and so the result is not as effective as it might
be. If I could reverse the direction of flow, then I could also turn
then fan around, so that the blades would be much closer to the window.

I considered simply building a duct, but the cost of materials was
excessive.

I guess you didn't consider cardboard and packing tape then
or a cheap plastic bucket?


The fan is too big for a plastic bucket. I considered cardboard but it
was far from clear to me that it was going to be strong enough without
bracing that would further complicate the task.

This isn't a research project. I was looking for a solution that would
definitely work, and be robust.

Sylvia.


Would this work?

http://www.fanmanufacturers.com/images/0000_axial_fan_img4.jpg

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 12/02/2011 8:28 AM, fritz wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message news:8rkr99Fq2eU1@mid.individual.net...
On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:



"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day (Coles
Home
Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was wired up
(that's another story).

The cover to the button panel was held in place by four screws which
were
identical except that two were philips head type, and the other two had
a
triangular socket in the head.

I have bits to cope with most things I've encountered, but not those.
What's the point? Are they worried about competition for repairing these
$10 fans?

Do consumers regularly electrocute themselves by taking fans apart
without
knowing what they're doing?

Sylvia.

They are only a tamperproof head of which there are various and easily
available.. Wait until you come across a coffin head screw.I believe the
reason for using them is that some countries prevent the dismantle of an
appliance without the use of a tool or special tool so this way all
fields
are covered in one assembly. Did you find out how it worked. They are
made
to break. Best way to keep them longer is to keep the Blades clean and
lubricate the bearings NOT with WD40 or the like.

As I said, it hadn't broken. I was actually trying to figure out which
wire was which leading to the induction motor. I had in mind making it run
backwards. Aerofoils don't perform as well backwards, but they do perform.
However, on further consideration I realised that the fan blades would be
aerodynamically stalled if the fan ran backwards, with the result that it
would probably not work much at all.

If the fan is symetrical - snap off pairs of opposing blades.

That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.

What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade assembly
on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan blade
assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.

Sylvia.

Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including motor) be
rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
air intake without the motor in the way ?

The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at night. During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even
though the temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of the house doesn't drop that much. The problem is lack of air
flow.

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are
still quite a way from the cool air, and so the result is not as effective as it might be. If I could reverse the direction of
flow, then I could also turn then fan around, so that the blades would be much closer to the window.

Stick the fan outside, blow the air inside. Lateral thinking is absent
in the female of the species.

No worries, though it's 10' above the ground. I'll just cantelever out a
shelf, and a shelter (fan's not waterproof, and weather forecasts are
not sufficiently reliable), get a sparky in to do the weatherproof
electrics (which I could do myself but am not legally permitted to in
this Australian nanny state), and it'll be fine.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 12/02/2011 3:48 PM, F Murtz wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
On 12/02/2011 2:43 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2011-02-11, Sylvia Else<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are still
quite a
way from the cool air, and so the result is not as effective as it
might
be. If I could reverse the direction of flow, then I could also turn
then fan around, so that the blades would be much closer to the window.

I considered simply building a duct, but the cost of materials was
excessive.

I guess you didn't consider cardboard and packing tape then
or a cheap plastic bucket?


The fan is too big for a plastic bucket. I considered cardboard but it
was far from clear to me that it was going to be strong enough without
bracing that would further complicate the task.

This isn't a research project. I was looking for a solution that would
definitely work, and be robust.

Sylvia.


Would this work?

http://www.fanmanufacturers.com/images/0000_axial_fan_img4.jpg

Looks just the job. Do they come with a through glass mounting kit?

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 12/02/2011 3:51 PM, kreed wrote:

On Feb 12, 2:22 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 12/02/2011 2:43 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2011-02-11, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are still quite a
way from the cool air, and so the result is not as effective as it might
be. If I could reverse the direction of flow, then I could also turn
then fan around, so that the blades would be much closer to the window.

I considered simply building a duct, but the cost of materials was
excessive.

I guess you didn't consider cardboard and packing tape then
or a cheap plastic bucket?

The fan is too big for a plastic bucket. I considered cardboard but it
was far from clear to me that it was going to be strong enough without
bracing that would further complicate the task.

This isn't a research project. I was looking for a solution that would
definitely work, and be robust.

Sylvia.

Some of those larger black plastic pot plant containers might be big
enough, also are sturdy,
UV resistant (since used outdoors in a garden).

Cut a piece of plywood to fit the window gap, cut a hole in the ply
suit the diameter
of the pot, (and at the right height to suit the fan) cut the bottom
out of the pot, and screw the pot to the ply.

This might make a big enough, and very strong duct for relatively
little cost. IIRC those pots are sturdy enough
so that they aren't likely to flap around in the wind. You can
probably paint them any colour you like, if you don't like black
colour.

It's an interesting idea. I'll have to look at what size pots are
available (and how much they weigh) next time I'm at the hardware store.

Mind you, plywood doesn't come cheap

Sylvia.

 

[kreed]

On Feb 12, 2:23 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:

On 12/02/2011 3:03 PM, atec77 wrote:



On 12/02/2011 1:43 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2011-02-11, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are still quite a
way from the cool air, and so the result is not as effective as it might
be. If I could reverse the direction of flow, then I could also turn
then fan around, so that the blades would be much closer to the window.

I considered simply building a duct, but the cost of materials was
excessive.

I guess you didn't consider cardboard and packing tape then
or a cheap plastic bucket?

I can think of another use for a bucket in sylivas case

Yes, I can use it to throw-up into whenever I imagine your face.

Sylvia.

Classic comeback Sylvia ! AAA+

 

[kreed]

On Feb 12, 2:22 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:

On 12/02/2011 2:43 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2011-02-11, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid>  wrote:

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are still quite a
way from the cool air, and so the result is not as effective as it might
be. If I could reverse the direction of flow, then I could also turn
then fan around, so that the blades would be much closer to the window..

I considered simply building a duct, but the cost of materials was
excessive.

I guess you didn't consider cardboard and packing tape then
or a cheap plastic bucket?

The fan is too big for a plastic bucket. I considered cardboard but it
was far from clear to me that it was going to be strong enough without
bracing that would further complicate the task.

This isn't a research project. I was looking for a solution that would
definitely work, and be robust.

Sylvia.

Some of those larger black plastic pot plant containers might be big
enough, also are sturdy,
UV resistant (since used outdoors in a garden).

Cut a piece of plywood to fit the window gap, cut a hole in the ply
suit the diameter
of the pot, (and at the right height to suit the fan) cut the bottom
out of the pot, and screw the pot to the ply.

This might make a big enough, and very strong duct for relatively
little cost. IIRC those pots are sturdy enough
so that they aren't likely to flap around in the wind. You can
probably paint them any colour you like, if you don't like black
colour.

You will probably have to paint the plywood on the outside in order to
avoid it rotting from exposure to the elements.





and most have a thick rim that you could scre

 

[keithr]

On 12/02/2011 12:18 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:



"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day
(Coles
Home
Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was
wired up
(that's another story).

The cover to the button panel was held in place by four screws which
were
identical except that two were philips head type, and the other
two had
a
triangular socket in the head.

I have bits to cope with most things I've encountered, but not
those.
What's the point? Are they worried about competition for
repairing these
$10 fans?

Do consumers regularly electrocute themselves by taking fans apart
without
knowing what they're doing?

Sylvia.

They are only a tamperproof head of which there are various and
easily
available.. Wait until you come across a coffin head screw.I
believe the
reason for using them is that some countries prevent the dismantle
of an
appliance without the use of a tool or special tool so this way all
fields
are covered in one assembly. Did you find out how it worked. They are
made
to break. Best way to keep them longer is to keep the Blades clean
and
lubricate the bearings NOT with WD40 or the like.

As I said, it hadn't broken. I was actually trying to figure out which
wire was which leading to the induction motor. I had in mind making
it run
backwards. Aerofoils don't perform as well backwards, but they do
perform.
However, on further consideration I realised that the fan blades
would be
aerodynamically stalled if the fan ran backwards, with the result
that it
would probably not work much at all.

If the fan is symetrical - snap off pairs of opposing blades.

That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.

What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade assembly
on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan blade
assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.

Sylvia.

Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including motor) be
rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
air intake without the motor in the way ?

The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at night.
During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even though the
temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of the house doesn't
drop that much. The problem is lack of air flow.

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are still quite a
way from the cool air, and so the result is not as effective as it might
be. If I could reverse the direction of flow, then I could also turn
then fan around, so that the blades would be much closer to the window.

I considered simply building a duct, but the cost of materials was
excessive.

I'm thinking of using box fans instead.

Sylvia.

Sylvia's house where the fans don't blow, they suck.

 

[John Robertson]

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 12/02/2011 8:28 AM, fritz wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rkr99Fq2eU1@mid.individual.net...
On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:



"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day
(Coles
Home
Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was
wired up
(that's another story).
...

Curiosity, good! I'd hire you as an apprentice at my pinball shop.

That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.

Not sure about 'stalled' here, unless the gearing is designed to not
allow reverse direction I am having trouble understanding the problem here.

What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade assembly
on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan blade
assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.

Sylvia.

Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including motor) be
rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
air intake without the motor in the way ?

The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at
night. During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even
though the temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of the
house doesn't drop that much. The problem is lack of air
flow.

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are
still quite a way from the cool air, and so the result is not as
effective as it might be. If I could reverse the direction of
flow, then I could also turn then fan around, so that the blades
would be much closer to the window.

Stick the fan outside, blow the air inside. Lateral thinking is absent
in the female of the species.

(to previous poster) Right, no lateral thinking in the female of the
species? Explain that to Madame Curie, Margaret Thatcher (OK, not a
great example), my daughter (5 year physics and math major), and so on...

No worries, though it's 10' above the ground. I'll just cantelever out a
shelf, and a shelter (fan's not waterproof, and weather forecasts are
not sufficiently reliable), get a sparky in to do the weatherproof
electrics (which I could do myself but am not legally permitted to in
this Australian nanny state), and it'll be fine.

Sylvia.

You can't get a permit to do your own home wiring in Australia? Pity.
Here in most of Canada - as long as the city (or relevant jurisdiction)
electrical inspector OKs the job (permit required) - then the handy
homeowner is permitted to do their own work - obviously one does it to
the electrical code. I did quite a bit of improvements to my previous
home, the inspector came in, examined a few random spots (opened
sockets, boxes, etc) and like what he saw and signed off on the job. If
he wasn't happy I would have had to open every box to show the job. This
inspection was before I put the wallboard up of course!

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 12/02/2011 8:15 PM, John Robertson wrote:

You can't get a permit to do your own home wiring in Australia?

Nup. Well, not unless you become a professional electrician, which
requires an apprenticeship, AND pay the annual licence fee.

Pity.
Here in most of Canada - as long as the city (or relevant jurisdiction)
electrical inspector OKs the job (permit required) - then the handy
homeowner is permitted to do their own work - obviously one does it to
the electrical code. I did quite a bit of improvements to my previous
home, the inspector came in, examined a few random spots (opened
sockets, boxes, etc) and like what he saw and signed off on the job. If
he wasn't happy I would have had to open every box to show the job. This
inspection was before I put the wallboard up of course!

Here in Aussieland, you cannot so much as replace a light switch with an
identical model.

You can be on a remote farm, 100s of kilometers from anywhere, and if a
lampholder breaks, you have to call in a sparky.

Sylvia.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2011-02-12, Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

It's an interesting idea. I'll have to look at what size pots are
available (and how much they weigh) next time I'm at the hardware store.

Mind you, plywood doesn't come cheap

If you want to save money go second-hand. eg: the powdercoated
zinc-alume treated sheet steel front off a dead washing machine
can probably had for a few bucks (if not less) from a scrap-metal
place , recycle market, or appliance repairer.

A demolition yard will probably have used flooring ply "cheap".
19mm (typical flooring thickness) is probably overkill strength-wise
but should fit the winbdow track ok.

Another thing you can do is ask in the wood part of the hardware shop for a
coversheet. Coversheets are the factory soiled sheets of ply (or mdf etc)
that are used to protect the top and bottom sheets in the stack during
shipping. 2.4x1.2m so youll need be prepared to transport something
that big. they will usually be significantly cheaper as they can't be used
for the normal purpose of the product.


--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[atec77]

On 12/02/2011 7:15 PM, John Robertson wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
On 12/02/2011 8:28 AM, fritz wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rkr99Fq2eU1@mid.individual.net...
On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:



"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day
(Coles
Home
Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was
wired up
(that's another story).
...

Curiosity, good! I'd hire you as an apprentice at my pinball shop.


That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.

Not sure about 'stalled' here, unless the gearing is designed to not
allow reverse direction I am having trouble understanding the problem here.


What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade
assembly
on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan blade
assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.

Sylvia.

Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including motor) be
rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
air intake without the motor in the way ?

The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at
night. During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even
though the temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of
the house doesn't drop that much. The problem is lack of air
flow.

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are
still quite a way from the cool air, and so the result is not as
effective as it might be. If I could reverse the direction of
flow, then I could also turn then fan around, so that the blades
would be much closer to the window.

Stick the fan outside, blow the air inside. Lateral thinking is absent
in the female of the species.

(to previous poster) Right, no lateral thinking in the female of the
species? Explain that to Madame Curie, Margaret Thatcher (OK, not a
great example), my daughter (5 year physics and math major), and so on...


No worries, though it's 10' above the ground. I'll just cantelever out
a shelf, and a shelter (fan's not waterproof, and weather forecasts
are not sufficiently reliable), get a sparky in to do the weatherproof
electrics (which I could do myself but am not legally permitted to in
this Australian nanny state), and it'll be fine.

Sylvia.

You can't get a permit to do your own home wiring in Australia?
Not a chance and with good reason

Pity.

Here in most of Canada - as long as the city (or relevant jurisdiction)
electrical inspector OKs the job (permit required) - then the handy
homeowner is permitted to do their own work - obviously one does it to
the electrical code. I did quite a bit of improvements to my previous
home, the inspector came in, examined a few random spots (opened
sockets, boxes, etc) and like what he saw and signed off on the job. If
he wasn't happy I would have had to open every box to show the job. This
inspection was before I put the wallboard up of course!

We have a system of indentured trades people , we also have 240ac and
415 ac electrical systems and the average home is fused to 120 amps or
more at the fuse box with individual power sockets to 10 amp@ 240v , you
generally only get once mistake at those levels hence the inability to
do your own work
The same with telecommunications equipment you have to use a trady or
suffer huge fines , thanks mainly to a few home installers doing serious
damage to local exchanges over the years

John :-#)#

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

 

[F Murtz]

atec77 wrote:

On 12/02/2011 7:15 PM, John Robertson wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
On 12/02/2011 8:28 AM, fritz wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rkr99Fq2eU1@mid.individual.net...
On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:



"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day
(Coles
Home
Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was
wired up
(that's another story).
...

Curiosity, good! I'd hire you as an apprentice at my pinball shop.


That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.

Not sure about 'stalled' here, unless the gearing is designed to not
allow reverse direction I am having trouble understanding the problem
here.


What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade
assembly
on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan blade
assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.

Sylvia.

Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including motor) be
rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
air intake without the motor in the way ?

The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at
night. During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even
though the temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of
the house doesn't drop that much. The problem is lack of air
flow.

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are
still quite a way from the cool air, and so the result is not as
effective as it might be. If I could reverse the direction of
flow, then I could also turn then fan around, so that the blades
would be much closer to the window.

Stick the fan outside, blow the air inside. Lateral thinking is absent
in the female of the species.

(to previous poster) Right, no lateral thinking in the female of the
species? Explain that to Madame Curie, Margaret Thatcher (OK, not a
great example), my daughter (5 year physics and math major), and so on...


No worries, though it's 10' above the ground. I'll just cantelever out
a shelf, and a shelter (fan's not waterproof, and weather forecasts
are not sufficiently reliable), get a sparky in to do the weatherproof
electrics (which I could do myself but am not legally permitted to in
this Australian nanny state), and it'll be fine.

Sylvia.

You can't get a permit to do your own home wiring in Australia?
Not a chance and with good reason

Pity.
Here in most of Canada - as long as the city (or relevant jurisdiction)
electrical inspector OKs the job (permit required) - then the handy
homeowner is permitted to do their own work - obviously one does it to
the electrical code. I did quite a bit of improvements to my previous
home, the inspector came in, examined a few random spots (opened
sockets, boxes, etc) and like what he saw and signed off on the job. If
he wasn't happy I would have had to open every box to show the job. This
inspection was before I put the wallboard up of course!

We have a system of indentured trades people , we also have 240ac and
415 ac electrical systems and the average home is fused to 120 amps or
more at the fuse box with individual power sockets to 10 amp@ 240v , you
generally only get once mistake at those levels hence the inability to
do your own work
The same with telecommunications equipment you have to use a trady or
suffer huge fines , thanks mainly to a few home installers doing serious
damage to local exchanges over the years

John :-#)#



Work by non trades people is not as dangerous as some people seem to

think.If you take the thousands and thousands of electrical items sold
in supermarkets etc the vast majority of which are installed illegally
by non licensed people and compare statistically the number of incidents
this causes you may realize it is not the problem alarmists may think.
If it were such a problem the powers that be would stop the non licensed
obtaining them.

 

[kreed]

On Feb 12, 7:15 pm, John Robertson <s...@flippers.com> wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
On 12/02/2011 8:28 AM, fritz wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid>  wrote in message
news:8rkr99Fq2eU1@mid.individual.net...
On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid>   wrote:
On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid>     wrote in message
news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid>      wrote in message
news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day
(Coles
Home
Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was
wired up
(that's another story).
...

Curiosity, good! I'd hire you as an apprentice at my pinball shop.



That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.

Not sure about 'stalled' here, unless the gearing is designed to not
allow reverse direction I am having trouble understanding the problem here.





What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade assembly
on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan blade
assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.

Sylvia.

Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including motor) be
rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
air intake without the motor in the way ?

The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at
night. During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even
though the temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of the
house doesn't drop that much. The problem is lack of air
flow.

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are
still quite a way from the cool air, and so the result is not as
effective as it might be. If I could reverse the direction of
flow, then I could also turn then fan around, so that the blades
would be much closer to the window.

Stick the fan outside, blow the air inside. Lateral thinking is absent
in the female of the species.

(to previous poster) Right, no lateral thinking in the female of the
species? Explain that to Madame Curie, Margaret Thatcher (OK, not a
great example), my daughter (5 year physics and math major), and so on...

We could also mention Anna Bligh, Christina Kennealy, Julia Gillard if
you want
the opposite of that.

No worries, though it's 10' above the ground. I'll just cantelever out a
shelf, and a shelter (fan's not waterproof, and weather forecasts are
not sufficiently reliable), get a sparky in to do the weatherproof
electrics (which I could do myself but am not legally permitted to in
this Australian nanny state), and it'll be fine.

Sylvia.

You can't get a permit to do your own home wiring in Australia? Pity.
Here in most of Canada - as long as the city (or relevant jurisdiction)
electrical inspector OKs the job (permit required) - then the handy
homeowner is permitted to do their own work - obviously one does it to
the electrical code. I did quite a bit of improvements to my previous
home, the inspector came in, examined a few random spots (opened
sockets, boxes, etc) and like what he saw and signed off on the job. If
he wasn't happy I would have had to open every box to show the job. This
inspection was before I put the wallboard up of course!

John :-#)#

Not here, it is a closed (union) shop - with "jobs for the boys"
This has been going on for the past 40 odd years (in QLD)
that I am aware of, and probably longer.

Having said that, electrical fittings are readily available for sale
to the public through
pretty much all hardware stores, as well as a more limited range in
many supermarkets (plugs, power sockets etc)

I know of one totally unlicensed electrician locally who openly does
work for people and commercial premises (for cash in hand). Has the
attitude "have no assets that can be taken, so cant be sued".



There is 240/415v involved whereas Canada is 120/240 IIRC.

--
    (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
  John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
  Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
                     www.flippers.com
       "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

 

[atec77]

On 12/02/2011 9:49 PM, F Murtz wrote:

atec77 wrote:
On 12/02/2011 7:15 PM, John Robertson wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
On 12/02/2011 8:28 AM, fritz wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rkr99Fq2eU1@mid.individual.net...
On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:



"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day
(Coles
Home
Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was
wired up
(that's another story).
...

Curiosity, good! I'd hire you as an apprentice at my pinball shop.


That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.

Not sure about 'stalled' here, unless the gearing is designed to not
allow reverse direction I am having trouble understanding the problem
here.


What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade
assembly
on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan
blade
assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.

Sylvia.

Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including motor) be
rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
air intake without the motor in the way ?

The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at
night. During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even
though the temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of
the house doesn't drop that much. The problem is lack of air
flow.

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are
still quite a way from the cool air, and so the result is not as
effective as it might be. If I could reverse the direction of
flow, then I could also turn then fan around, so that the blades
would be much closer to the window.

Stick the fan outside, blow the air inside. Lateral thinking is absent
in the female of the species.

(to previous poster) Right, no lateral thinking in the female of the
species? Explain that to Madame Curie, Margaret Thatcher (OK, not a
great example), my daughter (5 year physics and math major), and so
on...


No worries, though it's 10' above the ground. I'll just cantelever out
a shelf, and a shelter (fan's not waterproof, and weather forecasts
are not sufficiently reliable), get a sparky in to do the weatherproof
electrics (which I could do myself but am not legally permitted to in
this Australian nanny state), and it'll be fine.

Sylvia.

You can't get a permit to do your own home wiring in Australia?
Not a chance and with good reason

Pity.
Here in most of Canada - as long as the city (or relevant jurisdiction)
electrical inspector OKs the job (permit required) - then the handy
homeowner is permitted to do their own work - obviously one does it to
the electrical code. I did quite a bit of improvements to my previous
home, the inspector came in, examined a few random spots (opened
sockets, boxes, etc) and like what he saw and signed off on the job. If
he wasn't happy I would have had to open every box to show the job. This
inspection was before I put the wallboard up of course!

We have a system of indentured trades people , we also have 240ac and
415 ac electrical systems and the average home is fused to 120 amps or
more at the fuse box with individual power sockets to 10 amp@ 240v , you
generally only get once mistake at those levels hence the inability to
do your own work
The same with telecommunications equipment you have to use a trady or
suffer huge fines , thanks mainly to a few home installers doing serious
damage to local exchanges over the years

John :-#)#



Work by non trades people is not as dangerous as some people seem to
think.If you take the thousands and thousands of electrical items sold
in supermarkets etc the vast majority of which are installed illegally
by non licensed people and compare statistically the number of incidents
this causes you may realize it is not the problem alarmists may think.

One death or injury is to many
and considering some of the incredibly stupid electrical work getting
done I cant agree

If it were such a problem the powers that be would stop the non licensed
obtaining them.
just people driving while disqualified

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 13/02/2011 12:10 AM, atec77 wrote:

On 12/02/2011 9:49 PM, F Murtz wrote:
atec77 wrote:
On 12/02/2011 7:15 PM, John Robertson wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
On 12/02/2011 8:28 AM, fritz wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rkr99Fq2eU1@mid.individual.net...
On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:



"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day
(Coles
Home
Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was
wired up
(that's another story).
...

Curiosity, good! I'd hire you as an apprentice at my pinball shop.


That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.

Not sure about 'stalled' here, unless the gearing is designed to not
allow reverse direction I am having trouble understanding the problem
here.


What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade
assembly
on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan
blade
assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.

Sylvia.

Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including
motor) be
rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
air intake without the motor in the way ?

The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at
night. During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even
though the temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of
the house doesn't drop that much. The problem is lack of air
flow.

A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are
still quite a way from the cool air, and so the result is not as
effective as it might be. If I could reverse the direction of
flow, then I could also turn then fan around, so that the blades
would be much closer to the window.

Stick the fan outside, blow the air inside. Lateral thinking is
absent
in the female of the species.

(to previous poster) Right, no lateral thinking in the female of the
species? Explain that to Madame Curie, Margaret Thatcher (OK, not a
great example), my daughter (5 year physics and math major), and so
on...


No worries, though it's 10' above the ground. I'll just cantelever out
a shelf, and a shelter (fan's not waterproof, and weather forecasts
are not sufficiently reliable), get a sparky in to do the weatherproof
electrics (which I could do myself but am not legally permitted to in
this Australian nanny state), and it'll be fine.

Sylvia.

You can't get a permit to do your own home wiring in Australia?
Not a chance and with good reason

Pity.
Here in most of Canada - as long as the city (or relevant jurisdiction)
electrical inspector OKs the job (permit required) - then the handy
homeowner is permitted to do their own work - obviously one does it to
the electrical code. I did quite a bit of improvements to my previous
home, the inspector came in, examined a few random spots (opened
sockets, boxes, etc) and like what he saw and signed off on the job. If
he wasn't happy I would have had to open every box to show the job.
This
inspection was before I put the wallboard up of course!

We have a system of indentured trades people , we also have 240ac and
415 ac electrical systems and the average home is fused to 120 amps or
more at the fuse box with individual power sockets to 10 amp@ 240v , you
generally only get once mistake at those levels hence the inability to
do your own work
The same with telecommunications equipment you have to use a trady or
suffer huge fines , thanks mainly to a few home installers doing serious
damage to local exchanges over the years

John :-#)#



Work by non trades people is not as dangerous as some people seem to
think.If you take the thousands and thousands of electrical items sold
in supermarkets etc the vast majority of which are installed illegally
by non licensed people and compare statistically the number of incidents
this causes you may realize it is not the problem alarmists may think.

One death or injury is to many
and considering some of the incredibly stupid electrical work getting
done I cant agree

We could allow people to attend courses, and get certificates allowing
them to do home electrical work. How hard can it be?

We live in a world full of dangers. Electricity is nothing special in
that respect.

Sylvia.

 

[atec77]

On 12/02/2011 11:43 PM, kreed wrote:

On Feb 12, 7:54 pm, Jasen Betts<ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
On 2011-02-12, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:

It's an interesting idea. I'll have to look at what size pots are
available (and how much they weigh) next time I'm at the hardware store.

Mind you, plywood doesn't come cheap

If you want to save money go second-hand. eg: the powdercoated
zinc-alume treated sheet steel front off a dead washing machine
can probably had for a few bucks (if not less) from a scrap-metal
place , recycle market, or appliance repairer.

A demolition yard will probably have used flooring ply "cheap".
19mm (typical flooring thickness) is probably overkill strength-wise
but should fit the winbdow track ok.

Another thing you can do is ask in the wood part of the hardware shop for a
coversheet. Coversheets are the factory soiled sheets of ply (or mdf etc)
that are used to protect the top and bottom sheets in the stack during
shipping. 2.4x1.2m so youll need be prepared to transport something
that big. they will usually be significantly cheaper as they can't be used
for the normal purpose of the product.

--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: n...@netfront.net ---


There is plenty of wood in various forms at the rubbish dump sale shop
locally - cheap, including old doors, offcuts etc

If you think about it, you only need 4 strips a few inches wide,
remember that most of the centre will be cut out for the fan


If you were that hard up, and were local, I would cut out the thing
for you myself for nothing, as I have plenty of bits here that could
be used.

All it takes is some cardboard or light ply gaffer and silastic

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

 

[kreed]

On Feb 12, 7:54 pm, Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

On 2011-02-12, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:

It's an interesting idea. I'll have to look at what size pots are
available (and how much they weigh) next time I'm at the hardware store..

Mind you, plywood doesn't come cheap

If you want to save money go second-hand.  eg: the powdercoated
zinc-alume treated sheet steel front off a dead washing machine
can probably had for a few bucks (if not less) from a scrap-metal
place , recycle market, or appliance repairer.

A demolition yard will probably have used flooring ply "cheap".
19mm (typical flooring thickness) is probably overkill strength-wise
but should fit the winbdow track ok.

Another thing you can do is ask in the wood part of the hardware shop for a
coversheet.  Coversheets are the factory soiled sheets of ply (or mdf etc)
that are used to protect the top and bottom sheets in the stack during
shipping. 2.4x1.2m so youll need be prepared to transport something
that big. they will usually be significantly cheaper as they can't be used
for the normal purpose of the product.

--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: n...@netfront.net ---

There is plenty of wood in various forms at the rubbish dump sale shop
locally - cheap, including old doors, offcuts etc

If you think about it, you only need 4 strips a few inches wide,
remember that most of the centre will be cut out for the fan


If you were that hard up, and were local, I would cut out the thing
for you myself for nothing, as I have plenty of bits here that could
be used.

 

[John Robertson]

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 12/02/2011 12:28 PM, kreed wrote:
On Feb 12, 11:19 am, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 12/02/2011 11:54 AM, kreed wrote:



On Feb 12, 10:42 am, Archon<Chipbee40_Spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 2/11/2011 8:18 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:> On 11/02/2011 11:56
PM, kreed wrote:
On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
n

I'm thinking of using box fans instead.

Sylvia.

Don't you have window fans where you live?

http://www.target.com/Lasko-Electric-Reversible-Twin-Window/dp/B001VE...


You can get them here (USA) for $20
JC

Never seen them, but they would be perfect for what Sylvia wants to
achieve I think.
They are on Ebay, but all from the USA.

I found Lasko's web site. None of the instruction sheets (which I
thought might specify the power) seem to exist. So I emailed the
webadmin whose address was given on the web site. That email address
appears not to exist either (it bounced).

I hope they're better at making fans than they are at maintaining web
sites.

Sylvia.

These fans are also available on Ebay - search "window fan" and
"outside australia" and
there are several identical models. The sellers might be able to
help ?

I presume I'd need to buy a step down transformer, and then there's the
issue of the different frequency.

Sylvia.

Frequency difference only means the fans would spin a bit slower @ 50Hz
than at 60Hz. About 16% (1/6th) slower...not enough to matter I'm sure -
just turn it up one speed.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."