not OT : fear...

[Don Y]

On 7/31/2022 12:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article <jko0b1Fmb9hU1@mid.individual.net>, bowman@montana.com
says...

Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff
happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was
almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the
power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they
were afraid of them.

It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72
and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree
and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the
vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax
by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic
engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My
first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now
I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino
world and taught myself how to get around with one.

Many people are afraid of what they don\'t know. They\'d prefer
to do the same thing over and over again (possibly even becoming
expert at it) than to RISK trying something new. (OhMiGosh!
I may *fail*!! Or, *look* inept!)

I\'ve seen businesses crippled by \"sticks-in-the-mud\" in positions
of power/influence who are dead set on letting the company move away
from the things *they* know (\"knew\" being a better word for it!).
By the time they are forced out of those positions, the firm
is often sadly behind in a market that they may have previously
*led*! And, now has a tougher battle to prove to their market
that they can, once again, be relevant!

Personally, I have no desire to \"dig another hole\" -- I learned
most of what I\'m going to learn about \"digging holes\" from the
first one, thankyouverymuch! Let\'s try something different, now...

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

søndag den 31. juli 2022 kl. 22.18.30 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:58:25 -0400, Ralph Mowery
rmow...@charter.net> wrote:

In article <jko0b1...@mid.individual.net>, bow...@montana.com
says...

Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff
happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was
almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the
power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they
were afraid of them.




It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72
and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree
and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the
vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax
by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic
engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My
first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now
I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino
world and taught myself how to get around with one.
Seems to me that not a lot has changed in the last 30 years or so. We
had uPs, opamps, FPGAs, memory chips, ADCs, DACs, multilayer boards.
Things have just got a bit denser.

Designing with SOCs, single chips with uPs and FPGAs on common
silicon, isn\'t much different from when they were on separate chips.

and now kids can gets all the parts they imagine and decent quality PCBs
professionally made (and even assembled) for pocket money after
designing it all with free tools

that\'s a big difference from, say, 20 years ago

 

[Simon S Aysdie]

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:44:08 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

https://www.studyfinds.org/fear-for-safety-every-day/

What\'s wrong with kids these days? Most have been super-protected
children but are afraid of life.

Engineers have to THINK, blow things up, take calculated risks. Fear
warps prudent judgement.

I\'ve had interns that were afraid to touch a board powered from 5
volts, or handle a 12 volt battery. And wanted eye protection and
masks for everything. And who wouldn\'t crank up a power supply to see
how much an electrolytic cap would leak past abs max voltage rating.

People are terrified of abs max. That\'s an interesting topic, abs max.
Especially for RF parts.

Half of young things are afraid to ride Lyft!

I wonder if all this social media and constant texting creates fear
circles, tribes of wusses, just as it aggregates political tendencies.

PUT YOUR MASK ON, JOHN!!!!!

 

[server]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:32:54 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

søndag den 31. juli 2022 kl. 22.18.30 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:58:25 -0400, Ralph Mowery
rmow...@charter.net> wrote:

In article <jko0b1...@mid.individual.net>, bow...@montana.com
says...

Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff
happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was
almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the
power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they
were afraid of them.




It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72
and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree
and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the
vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax
by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic
engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My
first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now
I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino
world and taught myself how to get around with one.
Seems to me that not a lot has changed in the last 30 years or so. We
had uPs, opamps, FPGAs, memory chips, ADCs, DACs, multilayer boards.
Things have just got a bit denser.

Designing with SOCs, single chips with uPs and FPGAs on common
silicon, isn\'t much different from when they were on separate chips.

and now kids can gets all the parts they imagine and decent quality PCBs
professionally made (and even assembled) for pocket money after
designing it all with free tools

that\'s a big difference from, say, 20 years ago

Yes. I wonder how many do.

My mom set up a revolving credit line with Allied Electronics when I
was a kid. I could order anything, with a modest monthly average,
maybe $15 I recall.

 

[server]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:58:38 -0700 (PDT), Simon S Aysdie
<gwhite@ti.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:44:08 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.studyfinds.org/fear-for-safety-every-day/

What\'s wrong with kids these days? Most have been super-protected
children but are afraid of life.

Engineers have to THINK, blow things up, take calculated risks. Fear
warps prudent judgement.

I\'ve had interns that were afraid to touch a board powered from 5
volts, or handle a 12 volt battery. And wanted eye protection and
masks for everything. And who wouldn\'t crank up a power supply to see
how much an electrolytic cap would leak past abs max voltage rating.

People are terrified of abs max. That\'s an interesting topic, abs max.
Especially for RF parts.

Half of young things are afraid to ride Lyft!

I wonder if all this social media and constant texting creates fear
circles, tribes of wusses, just as it aggregates political tendencies.

PUT YOUR MASK ON, JOHN!!!!!

I only masked for a couple of very good restaurants, which was silly
because as soon as they served water everyone took their masks off.

Some people are still masking, even outdoors. I guess they will for
the rest of their lives.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 31/7/22 15:37, rbowman wrote:

On 07/30/2022 04:09 PM, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund wrote:
Engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems:
https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/18/electrical_engineers_extinction/

I think the article has a valid point. I\'ve got hopes for the maker
culture but I don\'t know how many participate. Our new library has a
nicely equipped makerspace with several printers, scanners, laser
cutters and so forth.

The maker movement is mostly made of regret. Teen years wasted playing
video games, didn\'t learn any construction skills, but find themselves
dependent on stuff that other folk have made. Get the urge to know how
to make stuff, but have no-one (but other ignorami) to teach them anything.

Don\'t know how to use a saw or a chisel, but they try to build and use
CNC mills and laser cutters. No idea how to choose the right glue or use
a welder, so they make things in CAD and use a 3D printer. Have never
fixed their bicycle, but they want to build android robots. Don\'t
understand aerodynamics enough to build a good paper dart, but they want
to customize drones.

Sad really.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 5:58:34 AM UTC+10, Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article <jko0b1...@mid.individual.net>, bow...@montana.com
says...

Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff
happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was
almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the
power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they
were afraid of them.



It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72
and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree
and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the
vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax
by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic
engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My
first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now
I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino
world and taught myself how to get around with one.

The problem isn\'t the age difference, but the attitude difference. I\'m 79, and I happily use my computer to fill out my tax information.

My father wouldn\'t have a computer in the house, but as soon as he died, I got my mother to buy one. It took her a while to get to use it. For about a year my nephews - her grandchildren - pulled my e-mails off her computer every week and typed in her responses, but she watched them do and could eventually do it for herself and compose her own replies, and we swapped e-mails every day for about a decade until senile dementia hit her.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[rbowman]

On 07/31/2022 01:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article <jko0b1Fmb9hU1@mid.individual.net>, bowman@montana.com
says...

Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff
happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was
almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the
power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they
were afraid of them.




It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72
and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree
and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the
vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax
by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic
engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My
first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now
I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino
world and taught myself how to get around with one.

It\'s not only 10 years. A friend that I went to high school and college
with went on to get his doctorate. He\'d been on a work/study program
with IBM and immediately went to work for them at their Vermont
semiconductor operation. When I visited him in the \'80s he had just
bought a PCjr. and was trying to figure out what to do with it. Actually
just buying a PCjr was indicative of cluelessness.

My brother was quite a bit older than I and was an aeronautical engineer
who\'d worked for GE, Boeing, and Thiokol retiring as a VP. He had no
interest in computers whatsoever. His wife had one that was mainly used
to look up recipes and email her children.

 

[rbowman]

On 07/31/2022 02:09 PM, Don Y wrote:

On 7/31/2022 12:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article <jko0b1Fmb9hU1@mid.individual.net>, bowman@montana.com
says...

Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff
happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was
almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the
power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they
were afraid of them.

It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72
and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree
and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the
vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax
by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic
engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My
first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now
I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino
world and taught myself how to get around with one.

Many people are afraid of what they don\'t know. They\'d prefer
to do the same thing over and over again (possibly even becoming
expert at it) than to RISK trying something new. (OhMiGosh!
I may *fail*!! Or, *look* inept!)

Sort of like the Public Service engineers I knew through the IEEE. For
my money when you\'ve seen one HV transmission line you\'ve seen them all
but they were happy with the same old same old.

 

[rbowman]

On 07/31/2022 02:32 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

søndag den 31. juli 2022 kl. 22.18.30 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:58:25 -0400, Ralph Mowery
rmow...@charter.net> wrote:

In article <jko0b1...@mid.individual.net>, bow...@montana.com
says...

Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff
happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was
almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the
power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they
were afraid of them.




It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72
and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree
and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the
vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax
by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic
engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My
first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now
I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino
world and taught myself how to get around with one.
Seems to me that not a lot has changed in the last 30 years or so. We
had uPs, opamps, FPGAs, memory chips, ADCs, DACs, multilayer boards.
Things have just got a bit denser.

Designing with SOCs, single chips with uPs and FPGAs on common
silicon, isn\'t much different from when they were on separate chips.

and now kids can gets all the parts they imagine and decent quality PCBs
professionally made (and even assembled) for pocket money after
designing it all with free tools

that\'s a big difference from, say, 20 years ago

Hell yeah! If I never see another bottle of ferric chloride it will be
too soon. That whole process with silkscreens and photo emulsion will
come in handy if I want to go into the Christmas card business.

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <4e05ee3b-9e69-4f3d-8fa6-371be61fcf7bn@googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@ieee.org says...

The problem isn\'t the age difference, but the attitude difference. I\'m 79, and I happily use my computer to fill out my tax information.

My father wouldn\'t have a computer in the house, but as soon as he died, I got my mother to buy one. It took her a while to get to use it. For about a year my nephews - her grandchildren - pulled my e-mails off her computer every week and typed in her responses, but she watched them do and could eventually do it for herself and
compose her own replies, and we swapped e-mails every day for about a decade until senile dementia hit her.

Yes, I do have to agree with that. Mostly attitude.Just seems that many
older people are too set in their ways. We also have a friend that is
80 and those two grew up as friends. The other was a math high school
teacher and uses his computers all the time.

Sort of like my mother. She was an execellent cook especially with
cakes and cookies. Took her many years after most people had one to get
a microwave and a while before she would use it.

 

[rbowman]

On 07/31/2022 03:28 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:32:54 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

søndag den 31. juli 2022 kl. 22.18.30 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:58:25 -0400, Ralph Mowery
rmow...@charter.net> wrote:

In article <jko0b1...@mid.individual.net>, bow...@montana.com
says...

Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff
happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was
almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the
power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they
were afraid of them.




It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72
and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree
and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the
vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax
by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic
engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My
first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now
I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino
world and taught myself how to get around with one.
Seems to me that not a lot has changed in the last 30 years or so. We
had uPs, opamps, FPGAs, memory chips, ADCs, DACs, multilayer boards.
Things have just got a bit denser.

Designing with SOCs, single chips with uPs and FPGAs on common
silicon, isn\'t much different from when they were on separate chips.

and now kids can gets all the parts they imagine and decent quality PCBs
professionally made (and even assembled) for pocket money after
designing it all with free tools

that\'s a big difference from, say, 20 years ago

Yes. I wonder how many do.

My mom set up a revolving credit line with Allied Electronics when I
was a kid. I could order anything, with a modest monthly average,
maybe $15 I recall.

I sort of had a credit line with Les Couch... He might have been one of
the original electronic recyclers. His technique was a little crude;
heat a circuit board over a barbecue grill until the solder flowed, turn
it over, and slam it on the table to see what fell out. The salvage went
into labeled but uncatalogued Mason jars stored on shelves in the cellar.

At one time I wanted to build a CDI. I needed some ferrite toroids that
didn\'t exactly grow on trees. With the help of a cousin I tracked down
one on the many IBM spinoff cottage industries in Kingston that handled
ferrite stuff. I drove down, found the guy working out of his garage,
and explained what I wanted. Actually selling them would have been a
mountain of paperwork so he gave me a bag of \'samples\' and wished me luck.

I hate to admit it but RatShack was a major source of components. It got
a little better when Tandy bought Allied.

 

[Don Y]

On 7/31/2022 5:15 PM, rbowman wrote:

On 07/31/2022 02:09 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/31/2022 12:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article <jko0b1Fmb9hU1@mid.individual.net>, bowman@montana.com
says...

Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff
happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was
almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the
power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they
were afraid of them.

It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72
and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree
and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the
vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax
by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic
engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My
first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now
I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino
world and taught myself how to get around with one.

Many people are afraid of what they don\'t know. They\'d prefer
to do the same thing over and over again (possibly even becoming
expert at it) than to RISK trying something new. (OhMiGosh!
I may *fail*!! Or, *look* inept!)

Sort of like the Public Service engineers I knew through the IEEE. For my money
when you\'ve seen one HV transmission line you\'ve seen them all but they were
happy with the same old same old.

I suspect it is a reflection on the level of risk-taking, self-confidence
or *need* for perceived \"security\".

I noticed many of the engineers working at Charles Stark Raving were
sad sacks -- they had reasonable job security and decent pay... but,
virtually no variety/challenge in their work. Their chances of trying
something \"new\" or radically unconventional were exactly *zero*!

Similarly for the folks who work at the local DoD subcontractor. They\'ve
gotta know that their technical skills are not very portable (nor likely
\"current\" given the military\'s conservativism). What do you do when
you\'ve got 10, 20, 40 years of that behind you? (Ans: look forward to
even more of it ahead!)

I always want something that lies just beyond my \"100% confident of
success\" level of complexity/novelty... \"Let\'s make it INTERESTING!\"
It makes the resulting success all the more savory!

 

[rbowman]

On 07/31/2022 12:51 PM, Don Y wrote:

We\'re targeting the \"junior high\" crowd -- 11 - 13yo. The thinking being
that you want to get them \"pointed\" in a STEM direction before they start
their high school education (which, in many places, requires students to
choose
a business vs. college vs. vocational path for their curriculum -- prior to
that, everyone is largely treated the same)

That makes sense. I assume some slurp it up and ask for more while the
bulk stumble along.

 

[rbowman]

On 07/31/2022 03:32 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:58:38 -0700 (PDT), Simon S Aysdie
gwhite@ti.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:44:08 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.studyfinds.org/fear-for-safety-every-day/

What\'s wrong with kids these days? Most have been super-protected
children but are afraid of life.

Engineers have to THINK, blow things up, take calculated risks. Fear
warps prudent judgement.

I\'ve had interns that were afraid to touch a board powered from 5
volts, or handle a 12 volt battery. And wanted eye protection and
masks for everything. And who wouldn\'t crank up a power supply to see
how much an electrolytic cap would leak past abs max voltage rating.

People are terrified of abs max. That\'s an interesting topic, abs max.
Especially for RF parts.

Half of young things are afraid to ride Lyft!

I wonder if all this social media and constant texting creates fear
circles, tribes of wusses, just as it aggregates political tendencies.

PUT YOUR MASK ON, JOHN!!!!!

I only masked for a couple of very good restaurants, which was silly
because as soon as they served water everyone took their masks off.

Some people are still masking, even outdoors. I guess they will for
the rest of their lives.

I went to an Irish festival in the park yesterday and there were only a
few maskers. Some of them lost the masks as the day went on. The 100
degree weather might have been a factor. I can\'t imagine...

 

[Don Y]

On 7/31/2022 5:37 PM, rbowman wrote:

On 07/31/2022 12:51 PM, Don Y wrote:
We\'re targeting the \"junior high\" crowd -- 11 - 13yo. The thinking being
that you want to get them \"pointed\" in a STEM direction before they start
their high school education (which, in many places, requires students to
choose
a business vs. college vs. vocational path for their curriculum -- prior to
that, everyone is largely treated the same)

That makes sense. I assume some slurp it up and ask for more while the bulk
stumble along.

We have \"magnet schools\" here that \"specialize\" in particular subject
areas. Students can freely attend *if* accepted. You\'d not want a
kid to get interested in STEM in his final year in the school system
and have missed out on those years when he *could* have received a
more targeted education (if his interest had been developed sooner).

The goal of the education system should be to provide the best
education appropriate to the needs/desires of the student.

Did *you* know what you wanted to do with your life when you were 14?

 

[rbowman]

On 07/31/2022 05:02 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 31/7/22 15:37, rbowman wrote:
On 07/30/2022 04:09 PM, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund wrote:
Engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems:
https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/18/electrical_engineers_extinction/

I think the article has a valid point. I\'ve got hopes for the maker
culture but I don\'t know how many participate. Our new library has a
nicely equipped makerspace with several printers, scanners, laser
cutters and so forth.

The maker movement is mostly made of regret. Teen years wasted playing
video games, didn\'t learn any construction skills, but find themselves
dependent on stuff that other folk have made. Get the urge to know how
to make stuff, but have no-one (but other ignorami) to teach them anything.

Don\'t know how to use a saw or a chisel, but they try to build and use
CNC mills and laser cutters. No idea how to choose the right glue or use
a welder, so they make things in CAD and use a 3D printer. Have never
fixed their bicycle, but they want to build android robots. Don\'t
understand aerodynamics enough to build a good paper dart, but they want
to customize drones.

Sad really.

I\'ve gotten the impression from Make Magazine that many are Gen
Whatever, not kids.

It\'s probably like the old R/C magazines with detailed plans for models
constructed from balsa and tissue. I think the ratio of magazines sold
versus models constructed would be high.

 

[server]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:43:10 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 7/31/2022 5:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/31/2022 12:51 PM, Don Y wrote:
We\'re targeting the \"junior high\" crowd -- 11 - 13yo. The thinking being
that you want to get them \"pointed\" in a STEM direction before they start
their high school education (which, in many places, requires students to
choose
a business vs. college vs. vocational path for their curriculum -- prior to
that, everyone is largely treated the same)

That makes sense. I assume some slurp it up and ask for more while the bulk
stumble along.

We have \"magnet schools\" here that \"specialize\" in particular subject
areas. Students can freely attend *if* accepted. You\'d not want a
kid to get interested in STEM in his final year in the school system
and have missed out on those years when he *could* have received a
more targeted education (if his interest had been developed sooner).

The goal of the education system should be to provide the best
education appropriate to the needs/desires of the student.

Did *you* know what you wanted to do with your life when you were 14?

I did when I was 10. Electrical engineer.

 

[server]

On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 09:02:36 +1000, Clifford Heath <no_spam@please.net>
wrote:

On 31/7/22 15:37, rbowman wrote:
On 07/30/2022 04:09 PM, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund wrote:
Engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems:
https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/18/electrical_engineers_extinction/

I think the article has a valid point. I\'ve got hopes for the maker
culture but I don\'t know how many participate. Our new library has a
nicely equipped makerspace with several printers, scanners, laser
cutters and so forth.

The maker movement is mostly made of regret. Teen years wasted playing
video games, didn\'t learn any construction skills, but find themselves
dependent on stuff that other folk have made. Get the urge to know how
to make stuff, but have no-one (but other ignorami) to teach them anything.

Don\'t know how to use a saw or a chisel, but they try to build and use
CNC mills and laser cutters. No idea how to choose the right glue or use
a welder, so they make things in CAD and use a 3D printer. Have never
fixed their bicycle, but they want to build android robots. Don\'t
understand aerodynamics enough to build a good paper dart, but they want
to customize drones.

Sad really.

A manual mill is better to learn on. You can feel the forces.

We donated our old milling machine to a local maker shop. Now we have
a classic Bridgeport and a new Tormach.

 

[server]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:33:46 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
wrote:

On 07/31/2022 03:28 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:32:54 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

søndag den 31. juli 2022 kl. 22.18.30 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:58:25 -0400, Ralph Mowery
rmow...@charter.net> wrote:

In article <jko0b1...@mid.individual.net>, bow...@montana.com
says...

Different era but when I was a IEEE member most of the interesting stuff
happened in the Boston chapter. My home chapter in New Hampshire was
almost all classic electrical engineers working for Public Service, the
power company. They basically knew nothing about computers except they
were afraid of them.




It is amazing to me how about 10 years can make a difference. I am 72
and a friend is 82. He was an electronics engineer with a 4 year degree
and worked in the Bell Labs and Western Electric. He is stuck in the
vacuum tube era. Does not like to use a computer and fills out his tax
by hand. I just went to a 2 year tech school for electronic
engineering. A few years after school the home computers came out. My
first was a TRS80 model 3. While I may not be great with computers now
I do use them all the time. About 2 years go I got into the Arduino
world and taught myself how to get around with one.
Seems to me that not a lot has changed in the last 30 years or so. We
had uPs, opamps, FPGAs, memory chips, ADCs, DACs, multilayer boards.
Things have just got a bit denser.

Designing with SOCs, single chips with uPs and FPGAs on common
silicon, isn\'t much different from when they were on separate chips.

and now kids can gets all the parts they imagine and decent quality PCBs
professionally made (and even assembled) for pocket money after
designing it all with free tools

that\'s a big difference from, say, 20 years ago

Yes. I wonder how many do.

My mom set up a revolving credit line with Allied Electronics when I
was a kid. I could order anything, with a modest monthly average,
maybe $15 I recall.


I sort of had a credit line with Les Couch... He might have been one of
the original electronic recyclers. His technique was a little crude;
heat a circuit board over a barbecue grill until the solder flowed, turn
it over, and slam it on the table to see what fell out. The salvage went
into labeled but uncatalogued Mason jars stored on shelves in the cellar.

At one time I wanted to build a CDI. I needed some ferrite toroids that
didn\'t exactly grow on trees. With the help of a cousin I tracked down
one on the many IBM spinoff cottage industries in Kingston that handled
ferrite stuff. I drove down, found the guy working out of his garage,
and explained what I wanted. Actually selling them would have been a
mountain of paperwork so he gave me a bag of \'samples\' and wished me luck.

I hate to admit it but RatShack was a major source of components. It got
a little better when Tandy bought Allied.

Ratshack used to have a lot of components, but I guess the world
passed them by.

We called them RusskyShack because they all seemed to be run by
Russians. Sort of like Cambodians and donuts or Indians and motels.