no income tax!...

[bitrex]

On 1/10/2023 2:52 PM, Joerg wrote:

On 1/10/23 10:08 AM, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

I think sales tax should be visible at purchase time, but it could be
hidden, like VAT.

The \"fair share\" that businesses pay is to move to Ireland or Mexico.


I am squarely against it. It means double taxation of older people (like
me). They have paid income tax on their income all their lives and now
their savings will be taxed again when they spend it.

And you really think there won\'t be cheaters? This \"solution\" would
foster smuggling, living outside the country, and so on. Big time. Smart
people will buy their new boat in Cabo and not in Florida. And keep it
there. And soon mostly live there. Aside from a massive tax shortfall
that will result in scores of American businesses going out of business
for a sudden lack of revenue.

Oh my Gosh, don\'t tease my little leftist heart like that. Thinking of
Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, General Dynamics et al
being cut off the government cheese has got me all excited. Aww, then
all the little psychopath arms dealers will have to go get real jobs
doing something useful for society.

I doubt the authors of that bill have thoroughly studied such scenarios.
Which will happen, guaranteed.

More like they didn\'t bother, given that it\'s just a performative act to
rile up the marks. Which is what politics in large part tends to consist
of these days.

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <467930e0-b52c-4537-886b-64d512245c98n@googlegroups.com>,
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com says...

If people would look at the total tax and fees they pay to the
governments they would find they are paying over 50 % of their wages.

I bet you don\'t have a source for this statistic, do you?

87.4% of all statistics are made up.

--

Just add up all the tax on wages, property tax, sales tax, fees for
drivers license, fees to buy a car,car tags.

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <467930e0-b52c-4537-886b-64d512245c98n@googlegroups.com>,
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com says...

If people would look at the total tax and fees they pay to the
governments they would find they are paying over 50 % of their wages.

I bet you don\'t have a source for this statistic, do you?

87.4% of all statistics are made up.

--

Just add up all the tax on wages, property tax, sales tax, fees for
drivers license, fees to buy a car,car tags.

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <467930e0-b52c-4537-886b-64d512245c98n@googlegroups.com>,
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com says...

If people would look at the total tax and fees they pay to the
governments they would find they are paying over 50 % of their wages.

I bet you don\'t have a source for this statistic, do you?

87.4% of all statistics are made up.

--

Just add up all the tax on wages, property tax, sales tax, fees for
drivers license, fees to buy a car,car tags.

 

[Ricky]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 1:08:58 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

I think sales tax should be visible at purchase time, but it could be
hidden, like VAT.

The \"fair share\" that businesses pay is to move to Ireland or Mexico.

I love the naivety of thinking the IRS is a an \"expensive nightmare\" and a national sales tax would be relatively easy to implement.

Let\'s start with some numbers. If a sales tax would replace the income tax, it needs to be revenue neutral, right? So we would need to bring in the same amount of money, either way.

In 2021, the IRS received $4 billion ... no, $4 trillion in tax payments. So the sales tax would need to bring in the same amount. In the same year, retail sales was $6.5 trillion. So to bring in $4 trillion, the tax rate would need to be 61.5%. Maybe that\'s not so bad... eh? Wait, they\'ve found that when sales tax reaches about 15%, people start thinking of finding ways to not pay it. What would they do with a 60% sales tax?

Then there\'s the problem of balancing, well, trying to balance the budget in any given year. When the economy is doing well, tax revenues would boom. When the economy is doing poorly, the revenue would plummet, and the tax rate would increase. Then when the economy is booming again, the rate would be rolled back, right? LOL Of course not. We saw that in the real estate boom of the early 2000s. Property taxes jumped, all the local governments got used to being flush with cash. Then in the bust, they raised the tax rate to make ends meet.

Then there\'s the manner in which sales tax hits the poor much harder than the rich, in terms of providing essentials. This is why many states don\'t tax food bought to be prepared at home. Other states have been shamed about this, but only managed to cut the tax in half! I\'m looking at YOU, Virginia.

People have batted around the idea of a sales tax before and it has always come up short. Only people who can\'t learn from other people\'s mistakes seem to propose such a thing.

The real problem with income tax, is the complexity. That\'s not going to change because of all the special interest groups, including John Q Public, who gets a break for interest on his primary residence. No one\'s going to propose giving that up. They\'ll just have you filed a sales tax refund form to get the money back. Who will you file that with? The Sales Tax Revenue Service.

Nothing changes under the sun.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 1:08:58 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

I think sales tax should be visible at purchase time, but it could be
hidden, like VAT.

The \"fair share\" that businesses pay is to move to Ireland or Mexico.

I love the naivety of thinking the IRS is a an \"expensive nightmare\" and a national sales tax would be relatively easy to implement.

Let\'s start with some numbers. If a sales tax would replace the income tax, it needs to be revenue neutral, right? So we would need to bring in the same amount of money, either way.

In 2021, the IRS received $4 billion ... no, $4 trillion in tax payments. So the sales tax would need to bring in the same amount. In the same year, retail sales was $6.5 trillion. So to bring in $4 trillion, the tax rate would need to be 61.5%. Maybe that\'s not so bad... eh? Wait, they\'ve found that when sales tax reaches about 15%, people start thinking of finding ways to not pay it. What would they do with a 60% sales tax?

Then there\'s the problem of balancing, well, trying to balance the budget in any given year. When the economy is doing well, tax revenues would boom. When the economy is doing poorly, the revenue would plummet, and the tax rate would increase. Then when the economy is booming again, the rate would be rolled back, right? LOL Of course not. We saw that in the real estate boom of the early 2000s. Property taxes jumped, all the local governments got used to being flush with cash. Then in the bust, they raised the tax rate to make ends meet.

Then there\'s the manner in which sales tax hits the poor much harder than the rich, in terms of providing essentials. This is why many states don\'t tax food bought to be prepared at home. Other states have been shamed about this, but only managed to cut the tax in half! I\'m looking at YOU, Virginia.

People have batted around the idea of a sales tax before and it has always come up short. Only people who can\'t learn from other people\'s mistakes seem to propose such a thing.

The real problem with income tax, is the complexity. That\'s not going to change because of all the special interest groups, including John Q Public, who gets a break for interest on his primary residence. No one\'s going to propose giving that up. They\'ll just have you filed a sales tax refund form to get the money back. Who will you file that with? The Sales Tax Revenue Service.

Nothing changes under the sun.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 1:08:58 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

I think sales tax should be visible at purchase time, but it could be
hidden, like VAT.

The \"fair share\" that businesses pay is to move to Ireland or Mexico.

I love the naivety of thinking the IRS is a an \"expensive nightmare\" and a national sales tax would be relatively easy to implement.

Let\'s start with some numbers. If a sales tax would replace the income tax, it needs to be revenue neutral, right? So we would need to bring in the same amount of money, either way.

In 2021, the IRS received $4 billion ... no, $4 trillion in tax payments. So the sales tax would need to bring in the same amount. In the same year, retail sales was $6.5 trillion. So to bring in $4 trillion, the tax rate would need to be 61.5%. Maybe that\'s not so bad... eh? Wait, they\'ve found that when sales tax reaches about 15%, people start thinking of finding ways to not pay it. What would they do with a 60% sales tax?

Then there\'s the problem of balancing, well, trying to balance the budget in any given year. When the economy is doing well, tax revenues would boom. When the economy is doing poorly, the revenue would plummet, and the tax rate would increase. Then when the economy is booming again, the rate would be rolled back, right? LOL Of course not. We saw that in the real estate boom of the early 2000s. Property taxes jumped, all the local governments got used to being flush with cash. Then in the bust, they raised the tax rate to make ends meet.

Then there\'s the manner in which sales tax hits the poor much harder than the rich, in terms of providing essentials. This is why many states don\'t tax food bought to be prepared at home. Other states have been shamed about this, but only managed to cut the tax in half! I\'m looking at YOU, Virginia.

People have batted around the idea of a sales tax before and it has always come up short. Only people who can\'t learn from other people\'s mistakes seem to propose such a thing.

The real problem with income tax, is the complexity. That\'s not going to change because of all the special interest groups, including John Q Public, who gets a break for interest on his primary residence. No one\'s going to propose giving that up. They\'ll just have you filed a sales tax refund form to get the money back. Who will you file that with? The Sales Tax Revenue Service.

Nothing changes under the sun.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Three Jeeps]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 7:30:55 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 15:12:56 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

tirsdag den 10. januar 2023 kl. 23.25.24 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
On 1/10/2023 1:08 PM, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

I think sales tax should be visible at purchase time, but it could be
hidden, like VAT.

The \"fair share\" that businesses pay is to move to Ireland or Mexico..

Great! Hopefully the government will have no choice then but to stop
spending 1 trillion a year on the military, and another 100-odd billion
on various militarized federal police endeavors.

how much of that trillion goes into pocket of Americans workers directly and indirectly working for the military?
iow if it wasn\'t military would be it called a socialist job and education program?

Military spending is arguably necessary but is counter-productive.
Paying people to march around, or to build weapons, does not increase
the general welfare.

Pay doesn\'t make a population better off. Productivity does. A
population can\'t long-term consume more than it can make or steal.

Umm, having spent a fair amount of my working life receiving federal spending in R&D to support the military, my perspective is that the innovations and insight that gets translated to military uses allows one to be productive under a umbrella of protection. In addition, some of those discoveries lead to savings (despite contractors blinders). Kinda hard to be productive with bombs falling on you. As a reminder a \'small example\', the basic tenants and implementation of the internet was conceived and built by military spending. Many research programs at universities are funded by military spending. A far cry from paying soldiers to march around in the field.

 

[Three Jeeps]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 7:30:55 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 15:12:56 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

tirsdag den 10. januar 2023 kl. 23.25.24 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
On 1/10/2023 1:08 PM, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

I think sales tax should be visible at purchase time, but it could be
hidden, like VAT.

The \"fair share\" that businesses pay is to move to Ireland or Mexico..

Great! Hopefully the government will have no choice then but to stop
spending 1 trillion a year on the military, and another 100-odd billion
on various militarized federal police endeavors.

how much of that trillion goes into pocket of Americans workers directly and indirectly working for the military?
iow if it wasn\'t military would be it called a socialist job and education program?

Military spending is arguably necessary but is counter-productive.
Paying people to march around, or to build weapons, does not increase
the general welfare.

Pay doesn\'t make a population better off. Productivity does. A
population can\'t long-term consume more than it can make or steal.

Umm, having spent a fair amount of my working life receiving federal spending in R&D to support the military, my perspective is that the innovations and insight that gets translated to military uses allows one to be productive under a umbrella of protection. In addition, some of those discoveries lead to savings (despite contractors blinders). Kinda hard to be productive with bombs falling on you. As a reminder a \'small example\', the basic tenants and implementation of the internet was conceived and built by military spending. Many research programs at universities are funded by military spending. A far cry from paying soldiers to march around in the field.

 

[Three Jeeps]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 7:30:55 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 15:12:56 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

tirsdag den 10. januar 2023 kl. 23.25.24 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
On 1/10/2023 1:08 PM, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

I think sales tax should be visible at purchase time, but it could be
hidden, like VAT.

The \"fair share\" that businesses pay is to move to Ireland or Mexico..

Great! Hopefully the government will have no choice then but to stop
spending 1 trillion a year on the military, and another 100-odd billion
on various militarized federal police endeavors.

how much of that trillion goes into pocket of Americans workers directly and indirectly working for the military?
iow if it wasn\'t military would be it called a socialist job and education program?

Military spending is arguably necessary but is counter-productive.
Paying people to march around, or to build weapons, does not increase
the general welfare.

Pay doesn\'t make a population better off. Productivity does. A
population can\'t long-term consume more than it can make or steal.

Umm, having spent a fair amount of my working life receiving federal spending in R&D to support the military, my perspective is that the innovations and insight that gets translated to military uses allows one to be productive under a umbrella of protection. In addition, some of those discoveries lead to savings (despite contractors blinders). Kinda hard to be productive with bombs falling on you. As a reminder a \'small example\', the basic tenants and implementation of the internet was conceived and built by military spending. Many research programs at universities are funded by military spending. A far cry from paying soldiers to march around in the field.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 11:56:09 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

tirsdag den 10. januar 2023 kl. 19.08.58 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

and extremely regressive since the low incomes spend all their money and thus pay it on all their income

Exempt basics. California already does for food and such. Don\'t sales
tax used things; that would be hard to police anyhow.

In an increasingly-sevices based world, we don\'t have sales tax on
services. I pay tax on car parts but not labor for repair. That
doesn\'t make sense to me; tax all consumption.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 11:56:09 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

tirsdag den 10. januar 2023 kl. 19.08.58 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

and extremely regressive since the low incomes spend all their money and thus pay it on all their income

Exempt basics. California already does for food and such. Don\'t sales
tax used things; that would be hard to police anyhow.

In an increasingly-sevices based world, we don\'t have sales tax on
services. I pay tax on car parts but not labor for repair. That
doesn\'t make sense to me; tax all consumption.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 11:56:09 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

tirsdag den 10. januar 2023 kl. 19.08.58 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

and extremely regressive since the low incomes spend all their money and thus pay it on all their income

Exempt basics. California already does for food and such. Don\'t sales
tax used things; that would be hard to police anyhow.

In an increasingly-sevices based world, we don\'t have sales tax on
services. I pay tax on car parts but not labor for repair. That
doesn\'t make sense to me; tax all consumption.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 12:24:35 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 1:08:58 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

I think sales tax should be visible at purchase time, but it could be
hidden, like VAT.

The \"fair share\" that businesses pay is to move to Ireland or Mexico.

That\'s another \"fact-free\" assertion you must have heard on a radio broadcast.

What\'s a \"radio broadcast\" ?

>You\'re being conned by uneducated, manipulative idiots who don\'t know what they\'re talking about.

No, I think it\'s a concept worth thinking about. I guess thinking
isn\'t popular any more.

Big companies like Apple play tricks to stash revenue in offshore tax
havens. Look it up.

Here\'re some facts and figures. Federal income tax alone has amounted to $289B year to date this fy, which would be Oct-Dec mostly. Sounds like a lot, but it\'s only 10% of what they threw away in Afghanistan. All the reform in the world will not correct for a horrendously mismanaged government. You figure out how to fix that first, otherwise you\'re just asking for more of the same with your wacky tax reform ideas- just more waste under a different system.


https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/government-revenue/

That\'s mostly an orthogonal issue. We need a Balanced Budget Amendment
too.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 12:24:35 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 1:08:58 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

I think sales tax should be visible at purchase time, but it could be
hidden, like VAT.

The \"fair share\" that businesses pay is to move to Ireland or Mexico.

That\'s another \"fact-free\" assertion you must have heard on a radio broadcast.

What\'s a \"radio broadcast\" ?

>You\'re being conned by uneducated, manipulative idiots who don\'t know what they\'re talking about.

No, I think it\'s a concept worth thinking about. I guess thinking
isn\'t popular any more.

Big companies like Apple play tricks to stash revenue in offshore tax
havens. Look it up.

Here\'re some facts and figures. Federal income tax alone has amounted to $289B year to date this fy, which would be Oct-Dec mostly. Sounds like a lot, but it\'s only 10% of what they threw away in Afghanistan. All the reform in the world will not correct for a horrendously mismanaged government. You figure out how to fix that first, otherwise you\'re just asking for more of the same with your wacky tax reform ideas- just more waste under a different system.


https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/government-revenue/

That\'s mostly an orthogonal issue. We need a Balanced Budget Amendment
too.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 12:24:35 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 1:08:58 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

I think sales tax should be visible at purchase time, but it could be
hidden, like VAT.

The \"fair share\" that businesses pay is to move to Ireland or Mexico.

That\'s another \"fact-free\" assertion you must have heard on a radio broadcast.

What\'s a \"radio broadcast\" ?

>You\'re being conned by uneducated, manipulative idiots who don\'t know what they\'re talking about.

No, I think it\'s a concept worth thinking about. I guess thinking
isn\'t popular any more.

Big companies like Apple play tricks to stash revenue in offshore tax
havens. Look it up.

Here\'re some facts and figures. Federal income tax alone has amounted to $289B year to date this fy, which would be Oct-Dec mostly. Sounds like a lot, but it\'s only 10% of what they threw away in Afghanistan. All the reform in the world will not correct for a horrendously mismanaged government. You figure out how to fix that first, otherwise you\'re just asking for more of the same with your wacky tax reform ideas- just more waste under a different system.


https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/government-revenue/

That\'s mostly an orthogonal issue. We need a Balanced Budget Amendment
too.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

tirsdag den 10. januar 2023 kl. 22.59.43 UTC+1 skrev Ricky:

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 1:08:58 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

I think sales tax should be visible at purchase time, but it could be
hidden, like VAT.

The \"fair share\" that businesses pay is to move to Ireland or Mexico.
I love the naivety of thinking the IRS is a an \"expensive nightmare\" and a national sales tax would be relatively easy to implement.

Let\'s start with some numbers. If a sales tax would replace the income tax, it needs to be revenue neutral, right? So we would need to bring in the same amount of money, either way.

In 2021, the IRS received $4 billion ... no, $4 trillion in tax payments. So the sales tax would need to bring in the same amount. In the same year, retail sales was $6.5 trillion. So to bring in $4 trillion, the tax rate would need to be 61.5%. Maybe that\'s not so bad... eh? Wait, they\'ve found that when sales tax reaches about 15%, people start thinking of finding ways to not pay it. What would they do with a 60% sales tax?

Then there\'s the problem of balancing, well, trying to balance the budget in any given year. When the economy is doing well, tax revenues would boom.. When the economy is doing poorly, the revenue would plummet, and the tax rate would increase. Then when the economy is booming again, the rate would be rolled back, right? LOL Of course not. We saw that in the real estate boom of the early 2000s. Property taxes jumped, all the local governments got used to being flush with cash. Then in the bust, they raised the tax rate to make ends meet.

Then there\'s the manner in which sales tax hits the poor much harder than the rich, in terms of providing essentials. This is why many states don\'t tax food bought to be prepared at home. Other states have been shamed about this, but only managed to cut the tax in half! I\'m looking at YOU, Virginia.

People have batted around the idea of a sales tax before and it has always come up short. Only people who can\'t learn from other people\'s mistakes seem to propose such a thing.

The real problem with income tax, is the complexity. That\'s not going to change because of all the special interest groups, including John Q Public, who gets a break for interest on his primary residence. No one\'s going to propose giving that up. They\'ll just have you filed a sales tax refund form to get the money back. Who will you file that with? The Sales Tax Revenue Service.

Nothing changes under the sun.

https://youtu.be/MO6V8gxayeA?t=232

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

tirsdag den 10. januar 2023 kl. 22.59.43 UTC+1 skrev Ricky:

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 1:08:58 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

I think sales tax should be visible at purchase time, but it could be
hidden, like VAT.

The \"fair share\" that businesses pay is to move to Ireland or Mexico.
I love the naivety of thinking the IRS is a an \"expensive nightmare\" and a national sales tax would be relatively easy to implement.

Let\'s start with some numbers. If a sales tax would replace the income tax, it needs to be revenue neutral, right? So we would need to bring in the same amount of money, either way.

In 2021, the IRS received $4 billion ... no, $4 trillion in tax payments. So the sales tax would need to bring in the same amount. In the same year, retail sales was $6.5 trillion. So to bring in $4 trillion, the tax rate would need to be 61.5%. Maybe that\'s not so bad... eh? Wait, they\'ve found that when sales tax reaches about 15%, people start thinking of finding ways to not pay it. What would they do with a 60% sales tax?

Then there\'s the problem of balancing, well, trying to balance the budget in any given year. When the economy is doing well, tax revenues would boom.. When the economy is doing poorly, the revenue would plummet, and the tax rate would increase. Then when the economy is booming again, the rate would be rolled back, right? LOL Of course not. We saw that in the real estate boom of the early 2000s. Property taxes jumped, all the local governments got used to being flush with cash. Then in the bust, they raised the tax rate to make ends meet.

Then there\'s the manner in which sales tax hits the poor much harder than the rich, in terms of providing essentials. This is why many states don\'t tax food bought to be prepared at home. Other states have been shamed about this, but only managed to cut the tax in half! I\'m looking at YOU, Virginia.

People have batted around the idea of a sales tax before and it has always come up short. Only people who can\'t learn from other people\'s mistakes seem to propose such a thing.

The real problem with income tax, is the complexity. That\'s not going to change because of all the special interest groups, including John Q Public, who gets a break for interest on his primary residence. No one\'s going to propose giving that up. They\'ll just have you filed a sales tax refund form to get the money back. Who will you file that with? The Sales Tax Revenue Service.

Nothing changes under the sun.

https://youtu.be/MO6V8gxayeA?t=232

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

tirsdag den 10. januar 2023 kl. 22.59.43 UTC+1 skrev Ricky:

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 1:08:58 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

I think sales tax should be visible at purchase time, but it could be
hidden, like VAT.

The \"fair share\" that businesses pay is to move to Ireland or Mexico.
I love the naivety of thinking the IRS is a an \"expensive nightmare\" and a national sales tax would be relatively easy to implement.

Let\'s start with some numbers. If a sales tax would replace the income tax, it needs to be revenue neutral, right? So we would need to bring in the same amount of money, either way.

In 2021, the IRS received $4 billion ... no, $4 trillion in tax payments. So the sales tax would need to bring in the same amount. In the same year, retail sales was $6.5 trillion. So to bring in $4 trillion, the tax rate would need to be 61.5%. Maybe that\'s not so bad... eh? Wait, they\'ve found that when sales tax reaches about 15%, people start thinking of finding ways to not pay it. What would they do with a 60% sales tax?

Then there\'s the problem of balancing, well, trying to balance the budget in any given year. When the economy is doing well, tax revenues would boom.. When the economy is doing poorly, the revenue would plummet, and the tax rate would increase. Then when the economy is booming again, the rate would be rolled back, right? LOL Of course not. We saw that in the real estate boom of the early 2000s. Property taxes jumped, all the local governments got used to being flush with cash. Then in the bust, they raised the tax rate to make ends meet.

Then there\'s the manner in which sales tax hits the poor much harder than the rich, in terms of providing essentials. This is why many states don\'t tax food bought to be prepared at home. Other states have been shamed about this, but only managed to cut the tax in half! I\'m looking at YOU, Virginia.

People have batted around the idea of a sales tax before and it has always come up short. Only people who can\'t learn from other people\'s mistakes seem to propose such a thing.

The real problem with income tax, is the complexity. That\'s not going to change because of all the special interest groups, including John Q Public, who gets a break for interest on his primary residence. No one\'s going to propose giving that up. They\'ll just have you filed a sales tax refund form to get the money back. Who will you file that with? The Sales Tax Revenue Service.

Nothing changes under the sun.

https://youtu.be/MO6V8gxayeA?t=232

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 17:25:15 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 1/10/2023 1:08 PM, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

I\'ve been wanting this for a long time. The income tax is an expensive
nightmare, a feeding trough for lawyers and accountants and cheating
experts. It drives businesses and jobs offshore.

A sales tax is easy to implement and police. It\'s voluntary too; just
exempt the things necessary to decent family survival. Buy a BMW if
you really want one.

I think sales tax should be visible at purchase time, but it could be
hidden, like VAT.

The \"fair share\" that businesses pay is to move to Ireland or Mexico.

Great! Hopefully the government will have no choice then but to stop
spending 1 trillion a year on the military, and another 100-odd billion
on various militarized federal police endeavors.

Hint: they won\'t. Under Republicans, an army of gunned=up jackbooted
thugs are the only thing worth spending money on.

If we taxed thinking, you\'d save a bundle. If we taxed snark, you\'d be
in debtors\' prison.