Moulded mains plug failure

[Michael A. Terrell]

Eeyore wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

As opposed to shoddy British labor?

Learn to spell shoddy USA labour right (as used in Detroit).

http://www.avolites.org.uk/jokes/queen.htm

You guys just fucked your own country ! Bwahahahahahahahaaaa !

Keep laughing. We are going to deport all the out of work UAW members
to England, and tell them you stole their union funds.


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[Franc Zabkar]

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:25:45 +0000, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

Franc Zabkar wrote:

AFAIK British mains plugs (not the moulded type) protect the active
wire with a user replaceable fuse. I doubt that your plug is anything
out of the ordinary.

The moulded type also have fuses inserted from the 'bottom face'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bs1363-plug.jpg

However I did once find ONE with no visible fuse. Maybe it was internal and
'one-shot' ?

It's great to have the safest electrical system in the world !

Graham

All other things being equal, I would have thought that a 110V system
was safer than a 240V system.

As for mains plugs, the safest ones I've seen are those with an
integral ELCB. Maybe one day they'll be mandatory ???

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Mike]

In article <i4knl41b5u0ilhv6btleoatcqu57t4i69h@4ax.com>, fzabkar@iinternode.on.net says...

All other things being equal, I would have thought that a 110V system
was safer than a 240V system.

I recall a friend telling me of the US electricians up near exmouth who
installed the VLF submarine comms system many moons ago, they had the habit
(in USA) of wiping one of the wires across the back of the hand, ostensibly to
find the active - from the inevitable reaction etc, Few yelps when doing that
over here...!

As for mains plugs, the safest ones I've seen are those with an
integral ELCB. Maybe one day they'll be mandatory ???

Along with the intelligent power coupling (trekkie talk for mains socket),
which has optical fibre, other voltages, choice of mains source etc etc...

--
Regards
Mike
* VK/VL Commodore FuseRails that wont warp or melt with fuse failure indication
and now with auto 10-15 min timer for engine illumination option.
* VN, VP, VR Models with relay holder now available.
* Uprated ignition module for VL in economy trials.
* Twin Tyres to suit most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au

 

[Eeyore]

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

The safest system is the one that was never built.

I'm sure you could contribute very positively to that.

Certainly. Anyone could. by following any of your rejected designs.

NO design of mine has EVER been rejected. In fact I've turned design
failures into commercial successes.

Don't believe me ? I'll get a PhD to send you an email.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

As opposed to shoddy British labor?

Learn to spell shoddy USA labour right (as used in Detroit).

http://www.avolites.org.uk/jokes/queen.htm

You guys just fucked your own country ! Bwahahahahahahahaaaa !

Keep laughing. We are going to deport all the out of work UAW members
to England, and tell them you stole their union funds.

No, you're stuck with them and their 'job banks' plus all the illegal
Mexicans.

Have a nice 2009.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Franc Zabkar wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

Franc Zabkar wrote:

AFAIK British mains plugs (not the moulded type) protect the active
wire with a user replaceable fuse. I doubt that your plug is anything
out of the ordinary.

The moulded type also have fuses inserted from the 'bottom face'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bs1363-plug.jpg

However I did once find ONE with no visible fuse. Maybe it was internal and
'one-shot' ?

It's great to have the safest electrical system in the world !

All other things being equal, I would have thought that a 110V system
was safer than a 240V system.

Why ? Both are lethal voltages and 120V as it actually is requires twice the
current carrying capacity with 4x increased I2R losses and hotter conductors
that catch fire more easily.

As for mains plugs, the safest ones I've seen are those with an
integral ELCB. Maybe one day they'll be mandatory ???

Give me even ONE example. Aside from British.

It seems to me you know little about electricity. Besides, about 90% of the
world uses 220-240V. As ever it's the USA that's the BACKWARD IDIOT.

Graham

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:08:07 +0000, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

Franc Zabkar wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

Franc Zabkar wrote:

AFAIK British mains plugs (not the moulded type) protect the active
wire with a user replaceable fuse. I doubt that your plug is anything
out of the ordinary.

The moulded type also have fuses inserted from the 'bottom face'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bs1363-plug.jpg

However I did once find ONE with no visible fuse. Maybe it was internal and
'one-shot' ?

It's great to have the safest electrical system in the world !

All other things being equal, I would have thought that a 110V system
was safer than a 240V system.

Why ? Both are lethal voltages and 120V as it actually is requires twice the
current carrying capacity with 4x increased I2R losses and hotter conductors
that catch fire more easily.

Presumably US conductors would be twice the diameter, which means that
the I2R losses would be the same. Maybe someone could confirm this.

As for personal safety, it seems reasonable that there may be
circumstances where 240V may be just enough to kill and 120V may not.
It's not like we're comparing 240kV with 120kV. I've been bitten
several times by 240V, once when I grabbed a fractured light switch in
the dark.

As for mains plugs, the safest ones I've seen are those with an
integral ELCB. Maybe one day they'll be mandatory ???

Give me even ONE example. Aside from British.

I didn't say that any country had mandated them, but here is one
example:
http://www.clipsal.com/trade/__data/page/4608/W54.pdf

I'm using several of them myself. They are particularly appropriate
for protecting extension cords which are used with outdoor appliances,
especially when your home's wiring predates the mandatory requirement
for ELCBs in the meter box.

It seems to me you know little about electricity. Besides, about 90% of the
world uses 220-240V. As ever it's the USA that's the BACKWARD IDIOT.

Graham

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Eeyore wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

As opposed to shoddy British labor?

Learn to spell shoddy USA labour right (as used in Detroit).

http://www.avolites.org.uk/jokes/queen.htm

You guys just fucked your own country ! Bwahahahahahahahaaaa !

Keep laughing. We are going to deport all the out of work UAW members
to England, and tell them you stole their union funds.

No, you're stuck with them and their 'job banks' plus all the illegal
Mexicans.

As usual, you are full of shit. Look at a map of the US and tell me
how far you think I am from Detroit. The closes car maker is 500 miles
away, and it isn't Detroit.

I'll take Mexicans over angry unemployed Muslims any day.


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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Eeyore wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

The safest system is the one that was never built.

I'm sure you could contribute very positively to that.

Certainly. Anyone could. by following any of your rejected designs.

NO design of mine has EVER been rejected. In fact I've turned design
failures into commercial successes.

Don't believe me ? I'll get a PhD to send you an email.

Great, you know a 'pointy headed dunce'. I'll bet he has a 154 IQ,
too?


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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Franc Zabkar wrote:

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 02:08:07 +0000, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:



Franc Zabkar wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

Franc Zabkar wrote:

AFAIK British mains plugs (not the moulded type) protect the active
wire with a user replaceable fuse. I doubt that your plug is anything
out of the ordinary.

The moulded type also have fuses inserted from the 'bottom face'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bs1363-plug.jpg

However I did once find ONE with no visible fuse. Maybe it was internal and
'one-shot' ?

It's great to have the safest electrical system in the world !

All other things being equal, I would have thought that a 110V system
was safer than a 240V system.

Why ? Both are lethal voltages and 120V as it actually is requires twice the
current carrying capacity with 4x increased I2R losses and hotter conductors
that catch fire more easily.

Presumably US conductors would be twice the diameter, which means that
the I2R losses would be the same. Maybe someone could confirm this.

As for personal safety, it seems reasonable that there may be
circumstances where 240V may be just enough to kill and 120V may not.
It's not like we're comparing 240kV with 120kV. I've been bitten
several times by 240V, once when I grabbed a fractured light switch in
the dark.

As for mains plugs, the safest ones I've seen are those with an
integral ELCB. Maybe one day they'll be mandatory ???

Give me even ONE example. Aside from British.

I didn't say that any country had mandated them, but here is one
example:
http://www.clipsal.com/trade/__data/page/4608/W54.pdf

I'm using several of them myself. They are particularly appropriate
for protecting extension cords which are used with outdoor appliances,
especially when your home's wiring predates the mandatory requirement
for ELCBs in the meter box.

It seems to me you know little about electricity. Besides, about 90% of the
world uses 220-240V. As ever it's the USA that's the BACKWARD IDIOT.

Graham

- Franc Zabkar

Other than the fact they are called GFCI in the US, some products
have them in their power cords. The reason the US doesn't use a GFCI at
the main panel is because it is illegal to use one on a refrigerator or
freezer. We use either a breaker with it built in for circuits with
convenience outlets, or outlets with it built in to protect that outlet,
and anything downstream. The British ring circuit concept makes this
impossible.

Some items are on dedicated circuits for safety reasons. A kitchen
with an electric stove will have a 50 A 240 circuit, a dedicated 120
circuit for the refrigerator, and two or more 20 A 120 VAC circuits for
countertop outlets. We use 14 AWG for 15 A circuits, 12 AWG for 20 A
circuits and 10 AWG for 30 A circuits, unless they are longer than
normal runs.


Here is one of many online charts charts for AWG copper wire.

http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.terrell/RefAWG.html


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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Mr.T]

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:i4knl41b5u0ilhv6btleoatcqu57t4i69h@4ax.com...

As for mains plugs, the safest ones I've seen are those with an
integral ELCB. Maybe one day they'll be mandatory ???

Since ELCB's are already mandatory on new house mains supplies, forcing
every device to have another seems unnecessarily expensive/wasteful IMO.
And even if you're house doesn't have one, fitting them to power boards
rather than every device plug top is a cheaper alternative.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:fnaol4prfrrf2pt75emd95df0srjaltfh3@4ax.com...

Presumably US conductors would be twice the diameter, which means that
the I2R losses would be the same.

Given the price of copper, that is a more expensive option though.

MrT.

 

[Qanset]

Phil Allison wrote:

"bruce varley"


( snip whole pile of putrid, whining,ridiculous shite )


** Replace the DAMN plug !!!

Wanker.





....... Phil





SO, what if he does'nt want to ????

 

[Qanset]

David L. Jones wrote:

On Dec 29, 11:23 pm, bruce varley <bxvar...@weastnet.com.au> wrote:
Hi, I've got a vintage Scope soldering iron, direct 240V connection (no
transformer, the cord goes straight into the iron). It dates from early
80s IIRC, and has given faithful service over all this time. No model
number marked so I can't provide it here, it has a red handle. Recently
it stopped working, to my surprise the problem was at the plug end of the
cord, not the iron end. The element resistance is fine, and the element
to shaft resistance is off the scale (haven't meggered it).

The mains plug is moulded and sealed. For all 3 leads including earth,
the resistance from the plug pin to the associated lead is erratic,
varying from many K to many megs. Might there be some sort of protective
device built into the plug, such as fusing? Strange though that the earth
wire continuity has gone. All in all it sounds like a straight age
failure, just wonder if there's something else there that I should be
aware of. Any suggestions on possibilities? TIA

That's a common problem, the wires have simply broken through fatigue,
there is almost certainly no protection device in the plug. Just
replace the plug.
But personally I wouldn't bother, bin it and get a proper temperature
controlled station.

Dave.
For him, it might have sentimental value.

I have a Portable CTV (Akai) purchased in 1995. Works like brand new.
I would'nt part with it.

 

[kreed]

On Jan 2, 2:21 pm, Qanset <Qan...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:
"bruce varley"

( snip whole pile of putrid, whining,ridiculous shite )

** Replace the DAMN plug  !!!

   Wanker.

....... Phil

SO, what if he does'nt want to ????

If he doesn't want to then he will have an iron that either doesnt
work properly, not at all
He might even end up with a fire or electric shock.

Alternately he could keep the thing as a "display only" item.

How is he going to fix a moulded plug ? hack it open, reterminate the
leads and hot melt glue
it back together ???

 

[Eeyore]

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

The safest system is the one that was never built.

I'm sure you could contribute very positively to that.

Certainly. Anyone could. by following any of your rejected designs.

NO design of mine has EVER been rejected. In fact I've turned design
failures into commercial successes.

Don't believe me ? I'll get a PhD to send you an email.

Great, you know

Have worked with.

a 'pointy headed dunce'.

One of the most able engineer-directors I've ever met.

I'll bet he has a 154 IQ, too?

Probably more actually.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote

Presumably US conductors would be twice the diameter, which means that
the I2R losses would be the same.

Given the price of copper, that is a more expensive option though.

You beat me to it. The price has gone through the roof recently. What a
waste of resources.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote

As for mains plugs, the safest ones I've seen are those with an
integral ELCB. Maybe one day they'll be mandatory ???

Since ELCB's are already mandatory on new house mains supplies, forcing
every device to have another seems unnecessarily expensive/wasteful IMO.
And even if you're house doesn't have one, fitting them to power boards
rather than every device plug top is a cheaper alternative.

I agree. And this type removes the need to rewire a plug.
http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=ImagelugInRCD.jpg

Ideal for use with one these.
http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/615685/Belkin-F9E609U3M-6-Way-Economy-Power-Strip-3m-Cable/Product.html?cm_mmc=Froogle-_-PC-_-Accessories-_-Belkin%2BF9E609U3M%2B%2F%2B6-Way%2BEconomy%2BPower%2BStrip%2B%2F%2B3m%2BCable&source=5066&engine=froogle_pc&keyword=Belkin+F9E609U3M+%2F+6-Way+Economy+Power+Strip+%2F+3m+Cable

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Franc Zabkar wrote:

As for personal safety, it seems reasonable that there may be
circumstances where 240V may be just enough to kill and 120V may not.

IEC states that 30V rms or 42VDC and above is 'hazardous'.

Graham

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Eeyore wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

The safest system is the one that was never built.

I'm sure you could contribute very positively to that.

Certainly. Anyone could. by following any of your rejected designs.

NO design of mine has EVER been rejected. In fact I've turned design
failures into commercial successes.

Don't believe me ? I'll get a PhD to send you an email.

Great, you know

Have worked with.

a 'pointy headed dunce'.

One of the most able engineer-directors I've ever met.

I'll bet he has a 154 IQ, too?

Probably more actually.

And he is in every Dilbert strip.


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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.