Motion detector

[Van Chocstraw]

My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on when
it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it times
out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's the deal?

 

[Sylvia Else]

Van Chocstraw wrote:

My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on when
it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it times
out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's the deal?

Loose wire?

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

D Yuniskis wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on
when it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it
times out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's the
deal?

Loose wire?

I'd be more inclined to think welded relay contacts :

Possibly - but would it still click?

Sylvia.

 

[D Yuniskis]

Sylvia Else wrote:

Van Chocstraw wrote:
My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on when
it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it times
out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's the deal?

Loose wire?

I'd be more inclined to think welded relay contacts :>

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Van Chocstraw" <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:Npednd9AheQHGKzWnZ2dnUVZ_rcAAAAA@giganews.com...

My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60 seconds
and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on when it used to
go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it times out and clicks
again but the light never goes out. What's the deal?

**Assuming the relay directly controls the light, then it may be a dodgy
suppression cap. More likely though, the relay drives a TRIAC and the TRIAC
is shorted.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Phil Allison]

"Van Chocstraw"

My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60 seconds
and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on when it used to
go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it times out and clicks
again but the light never goes out. What's the deal?

** Shorted cap across the relay contacts.



... Phil

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:7pdhgrFrtmU1@mid.individual.net...

"Van Chocstraw"

My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60 seconds
and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on when it used to
go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it times out and
clicks again but the light never goes out. What's the deal?


** Shorted cap across the relay contacts.

**Wow! That was close.

"Missed by that much." - Maxwell Smart, Agent 86.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[D Yuniskis]

Sylvia Else wrote:

D Yuniskis wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on
when it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector,
it times out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's
the deal?

Loose wire?

I'd be more inclined to think welded relay contacts :

Possibly - but would it still click?

Depends on the design of the armature.

OTOH, try to imagine how a *loose* wire would keep the light
*on* (yet the relay functioning) -- unless the loose wire
was shorting something...

 

[Sylvia Else]

D Yuniskis wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
D Yuniskis wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on
when it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector,
it times out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's
the deal?

Loose wire?

I'd be more inclined to think welded relay contacts :

Possibly - but would it still click?

Depends on the design of the armature.

OTOH, try to imagine how a *loose* wire would keep the light
*on* (yet the relay functioning) -- unless the loose wire
was shorting something...

A wire on the power side could come loose from where it's meant to be
attached, and land on the the attachment to the other side of the
switch. A spot of arc-welding would then hold it in place, leaving the
relay contacts to open and close with no effect.

Sylvia.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:00ad7b7a$0$13124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

D Yuniskis wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
D Yuniskis wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on
when it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it
times out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's the
deal?

Loose wire?

I'd be more inclined to think welded relay contacts :

Possibly - but would it still click?

Depends on the design of the armature.

OTOH, try to imagine how a *loose* wire would keep the light
*on* (yet the relay functioning) -- unless the loose wire
was shorting something...

A wire on the power side could come loose from where it's meant to be
attached, and land on the the attachment to the other side of the switch.
A spot of arc-welding would then hold it in place, leaving the relay
contacts to open and close with no effect.

**In someone's dream, perhaps. A capacitor failure is the most likely
culprit. Your suggestion is largely fantasy in a product which is rarely
moved. Even then, the worst examples of Chinese manufacture never
demonstrate such failure modes that you are suggesting. The welded relay
contacts, though unlikely with a resistive load, is far more likely than a
rogue wire making it's way inside the box.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Sylvia Else]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:00ad7b7a$0$13124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
D Yuniskis wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
D Yuniskis wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on
when it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it
times out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's the
deal?
Loose wire?
I'd be more inclined to think welded relay contacts :
Possibly - but would it still click?
Depends on the design of the armature.

OTOH, try to imagine how a *loose* wire would keep the light
*on* (yet the relay functioning) -- unless the loose wire
was shorting something...
A wire on the power side could come loose from where it's meant to be
attached, and land on the the attachment to the other side of the switch.
A spot of arc-welding would then hold it in place, leaving the relay
contacts to open and close with no effect.

**In someone's dream, perhaps. A capacitor failure is the most likely
culprit. Your suggestion is largely fantasy in a product which is rarely
moved. Even then, the worst examples of Chinese manufacture never
demonstrate such failure modes that you are suggesting. The welded relay
contacts, though unlikely with a resistive load, is far more likely than a
rogue wire making it's way inside the box.

Wires never come loose? And you know, of course, how the wires are
attached, how old the system is, how well protected from the elements it
is, etc.?

What are you going to do if the capacitor hasn't failed, and the
contacts are not welded - recommend a trip to the tip because it's not
worth looking to see whether a wire has come loose - that doesn't happen?

If only equipment always failed the way it was meant to.

Sylvia.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:00a31c55$0$8060$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:00ad7b7a$0$13124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
D Yuniskis wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
D Yuniskis wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on
when it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector,
it times out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's
the deal?
Loose wire?
I'd be more inclined to think welded relay contacts :
Possibly - but would it still click?
Depends on the design of the armature.

OTOH, try to imagine how a *loose* wire would keep the light
*on* (yet the relay functioning) -- unless the loose wire
was shorting something...
A wire on the power side could come loose from where it's meant to be
attached, and land on the the attachment to the other side of the
switch. A spot of arc-welding would then hold it in place, leaving the
relay contacts to open and close with no effect.

**In someone's dream, perhaps. A capacitor failure is the most likely
culprit. Your suggestion is largely fantasy in a product which is rarely
moved. Even then, the worst examples of Chinese manufacture never
demonstrate such failure modes that you are suggesting. The welded relay
contacts, though unlikely with a resistive load, is far more likely than
a rogue wire making it's way inside the box.



Wires never come loose?

**In my 40 years' experience of service? Almost never.

And you know, of course, how the wires are

attached, how old the system is, how well protected from the elements it
is, etc.?

**Such a product is normally expressly designed for outdoor use. As such,
the manufacturer will ensure that such an occurence is extremely unlikely.

What are you going to do if the capacitor hasn't failed, and the contacts
are not welded - recommend a trip to the tip because it's not worth
looking to see whether a wire has come loose - that doesn't happen?

**Here in the real world of service, we look for the obvious faults first. A
loose wire that has mysteriously welded itself to a contact (with a
resistive load), though obvious to spot, is such a remote possibility, that
it barely rates in the scheme of things.

If only equipment always failed the way it was meant to.

**Fortunately, that is pretty much what happens most of the time.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Ron]

On 23/12/2009 09:48, Trevor Wilson wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:00a31c55$0$8060$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:00ad7b7a$0$13124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
D Yuniskis wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
D Yuniskis wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on
when it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector,
it times out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's
the deal?
Loose wire?
I'd be more inclined to think welded relay contacts :
Possibly - but would it still click?
Depends on the design of the armature.

OTOH, try to imagine how a *loose* wire would keep the light
*on* (yet the relay functioning) -- unless the loose wire
was shorting something...
A wire on the power side could come loose from where it's meant to be
attached, and land on the the attachment to the other side of the
switch. A spot of arc-welding would then hold it in place, leaving the
relay contacts to open and close with no effect.

**In someone's dream, perhaps. A capacitor failure is the most likely
culprit. Your suggestion is largely fantasy in a product which is rarely
moved. Even then, the worst examples of Chinese manufacture never
demonstrate such failure modes that you are suggesting. The welded relay
contacts, though unlikely with a resistive load, is far more likely than
a rogue wire making it's way inside the box.



Wires never come loose?

**In my 40 years' experience of service? Almost never.

And you know, of course, how the wires are
attached, how old the system is, how well protected from the elements it
is, etc.?

**Such a product is normally expressly designed for outdoor use. As such,
the manufacturer will ensure that such an occurence is extremely unlikely.


What are you going to do if the capacitor hasn't failed, and the contacts
are not welded - recommend a trip to the tip because it's not worth
looking to see whether a wire has come loose - that doesn't happen?

**Here in the real world of service, we look for the obvious faults first. A
loose wire that has mysteriously welded itself to a contact (with a
resistive load), though obvious to spot, is such a remote possibility, that
it barely rates in the scheme of things.


If only equipment always failed the way it was meant to.

**Fortunately, that is pretty much what happens most of the time.


In my experience, many yard lights have the internal lamp switched by a

triac, and also have a relay for additional external lights. Maybe the
triac is s/c.

Ron(UK)

 

[Meat Plow]

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:51:05 -0500, Van Chocstraw
<boobooililililil@roadrunner.com>wrote:

My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on when
it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it times
out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's the deal?

It's broke, go buy a new one.

 

[D Yuniskis]

Meat Plow wrote:

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:51:05 -0500, Van Chocstraw
boobooililililil@roadrunner.com>wrote:

My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on when
it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it times
out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's the deal?

It's broke, go buy a new one.

Ah, yes... that new newsgroup: s.e.gobuyanewone ;-)

Actually, I'd be curious as to what the OP actually *found*
as the problem...

Happy Holiday, folks.

 

[Meat Plow]

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 06:55:21 -0700, D Yuniskis
<not.going.to.be@seen.com>wrote:

Meat Plow wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:51:05 -0500, Van Chocstraw
boobooililililil@roadrunner.com>wrote:

My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on when
it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it times
out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's the deal?

It's broke, go buy a new one.

Ah, yes... that new newsgroup: s.e.gobuyanewone ;-)

Actually, I'd be curious as to what the OP actually *found*
as the problem...

Happy Holiday, folks.

I do a lot of repair but not on a sealed outdoor motion detector.
Especially when I can purchae a new unit for $10.

 

[PeterD]

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 14:11:29 +1100, Sylvia Else
<sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:

D Yuniskis wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on
when it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it
times out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's the
deal?

Loose wire?

I'd be more inclined to think welded relay contacts :

Possibly - but would it still click?

Sylvia.

Yes...

 

[Van Chocstraw]

On 12/23/2009 08:16 AM, Meat Plow wrote:

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:51:05 -0500, Van Chocstraw
boobooililililil@roadrunner.com>wrote:

My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on when
it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it times
out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's the deal?

It's broke, go buy a new one.

I think this is the answer.

 

[Van Chocstraw]

On 12/22/2009 09:51 PM, Van Chocstraw wrote:

My yard light won't go off any more. I block the detector wait 60
seconds and I hear the relay click off but the light now stays on when
it used to go off. It clicks again when I block the detector, it times
out and clicks again but the light never goes out. What's the deal?

Did anybody mention frost or ice on the contacts? I took the assembly
off the garage and took it down to my nice warm workbench by the wood
boiler. At first it still was stuck on. Then I went and made myself a
coffee and when I came back it was functioning normally. Simulate night
time and it went on 1minute and off again with motion. Simulate daytime
and it was off (before it was stuck on). I guess when it warmed up it
started working again. Put it back on the garage and will see tonight
what happens. Did not see any way to open it without a hacksaw.

 

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

What's the deal?

Would there, by any chance, be a switch somewhere that can be used to
turn the light on all the time?

I've wired all of my motion lamps like that so I can turn the lights
on and force them to stay on until I turn the switch off.

William