more OT: Smoke in San Francisco...

[Chris]

On 09/18/20 16:07, rangerssuck wrote:

On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-4, Chris wrote:
On 09/11/20 03:44, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 7:49:06 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 11:42:11 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wyrjcsjemde1gqw/AACymDmZ2Ul7OZwed4XovQL5a?dl=0

As if enough wasn\'t going wrong already. I hear that the ash was
falling like serious snow at times. \"It felt like night until about
4pm.\"

Welcome to the side effects of climate change. We had that in Sydney at the end of last year.

My wife bought an air-purifier to minimise the number of smoke particles ending up in her lungs.

The local hospitals qot swamped by people who had more serious respiratory problems.

--
SL0W MAN, Sydney

Hey SL0W MAN,

No SL0W MAN, welcome to the effects of DECADES of forest mismanagement and fire suppression, most recently aggravated by envirowacos blocking the removal of dead trees.

Isn\'t that what I said up thread ?. So many people have lost everything
due to decades of mismanagement and a local government that seem
incapable of doing anything to fix the problem. Too much fuel, expect
bigger fires.

Why do so many vote for such idiots ?...

Chris

Local government? The vast majority of the California forest is owned by the Federal government.

That\'s just passing the buck. Even if the land is Federal, it\'s still
the duty of state government to protect the people if Fedaral
government fails to get the job done. That\'s what they are elected
to do and why people pay state taxes.

Couldn\'t be more incompetent if they tried and ever more excuses
just shows how bad they are. Where abstract greenwash philosophy
replaces common sense, pragmatism and just and getting the
job done.

Chris

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 4:14:58 AM UTC-7, Chris wrote:

That\'s just passing the buck. Even if the land is Federal, it\'s still
the duty of state government to protect the people if Fedaral
government fails ...

Government hasn\'t failed, just had a surprise.

Couldn\'t be more incompetent if they tried and ever more excuses
just shows how bad they are. Where abstract greenwash philosophy
replaces common sense, pragmatism and just and getting the
job done.

Oh, child, you can\'t just fling \'bad kitty\' judgements at problems,
it takes solutions, starting with knowledge and going through planning
and execution. A broad-brush castigation of some nebulous
assortment of other folk is not knowledge, not a solution, not a plan,
and certainly isn\'t execution. It\'s just like when the uh-oh squad
shows up at an accident, and points, and says \"Uh-oh\".

 

[Chris]

On 09/20/20 21:19, whit3rd wrote:

On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 4:14:58 AM UTC-7, Chris wrote:

That\'s just passing the buck. Even if the land is Federal, it\'s still
the duty of state government to protect the people if Fedaral
government fails ...

Government hasn\'t failed, just had a surprise.

Couldn\'t be more incompetent if they tried and ever more excuses
just shows how bad they are. Where abstract greenwash philosophy
replaces common sense, pragmatism and just and getting the
job done.

Oh, child, you can\'t just fling \'bad kitty\' judgements at problems,
it takes solutions, starting with knowledge and going through planning
and execution. A broad-brush castigation of some nebulous
assortment of other folk is not knowledge, not a solution, not a plan,
and certainly isn\'t execution. It\'s just like when the uh-oh squad
shows up at an accident, and points, and says \"Uh-oh\".

The problem is that the research, planning etc takes so long that
nothing ever happens. The fire problem has been plain for all to
see for decades, so how will it take before they have solutions that
actually work, rather than just talking about it ?.

The people deserve better...

Chris

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, September 21, 2020 at 9:00:49 AM UTC+10, Chris wrote:

On 09/20/20 21:19, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 4:14:58 AM UTC-7, Chris wrote:

That\'s just passing the buck. Even if the land is Federal, it\'s still
the duty of state government to protect the people if Fedaral
government fails ...

Government hasn\'t failed, just had a surprise.

Couldn\'t be more incompetent if they tried and ever more excuses
just shows how bad they are. Where abstract greenwash philosophy
replaces common sense, pragmatism and just and getting the
job done.

Oh, child, you can\'t just fling \'bad kitty\' judgements at problems,
it takes solutions, starting with knowledge and going through planning
and execution. A broad-brush castigation of some nebulous
assortment of other folk is not knowledge, not a solution, not a plan,
and certainly isn\'t execution. It\'s just like when the uh-oh squad
shows up at an accident, and points, and says \"Uh-oh\".
The problem is that the research, planning etc takes so long that
nothing ever happens. The fire problem has been plain for all to
see for decades, so how will it take before they have solutions that
actually work, rather than just talking about it ?

Sadly, the solution which would work involves extracting a lot less fossil carbon and burning very little of it as fuel.

All the people who make money - lots of it - out of doing this don\'t fancy the idea at all and spend loads of money casting doubt on the scientific basis of this approach. It works - as John Larkin reminds us all too often.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt

> The people deserve better...

But in the US the top 1% of the income distribution get to decide what\'s good for the people, and their own interests do seem to get more attention than those of the remaining 99%. Millionaires get just the desserts they want - frequently flambé.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 21:43:48 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

[snip]

What I said was \"The idea that wet dead wood would last 100 years is idiotic\". A process that takes decades would still mean that a century of neglect - which really hasn\'t happened - wouldn\'t have been any worse than a few decades of total neglect.

..<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_pilings>


>California has been having forest fires for as long as I can remember, and has even more equipment to deal with them than Australia has - we hire it to fight our fires in your winter (our summer). Your forests haven\'t been managed in a way that eliminates forest fires - only an idiot like you would imagine that to be possible - but they\'ve clearly had quite a bit of attention

Well, the local American Indians told the Spanish about the wirldfires
of California in the 1500s. The Indians periodically burned the grass
and brush off, precisely to prevent huge wildfires.

The Indians of New Englands did the same.

Joe Gwinn

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Tuesday, September 22, 2020 at 12:08:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 9:43:54 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, September 21, 2020 at 2:21:59 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 12:34:01 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 1:46:50 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 4:44:02 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 3:23:52 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 6:13:35 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 10:36:05 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 7:54:04 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 12:46:53 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 12:36:17 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 3:18:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 7:12:07 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 9:57:25 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 10:41:40 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 12:02:25 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 9:34:30 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, September 11, 2020 at 12:44:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 7:49:06 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 11:42:11 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wyrjcsjemde1gqw/AACymDmZ2Ul7OZwed4XovQL5a?dl=0

<snip>

Hey SL0W MAN,
Your brain is so IMPERVIOUS to intelligent thought that I think the Chicoms are interested in studying you. I believe I have posted this before, but here it is again:
https://lhc.ca.gov/sites/lhc.ca.gov/files/Reports/242/Report242.pdf
Here is a quote from this report:
\"During its review, the Commission found that California’s forests suffer from neglect and mismanagement, resulting in overcrowding that leaves them susceptible to disease, insects, and wildfire.\"
And:
\"A century of mismanaging Sierra Nevada forests has brought an unprecedented environmental catastrophe that impacts all Californians - and with it, a rare opportunity for transformational culture change in forest management practices.

A report clearly written by people who want to log the forests and sell the timber from the trees they want an excuse to cut down.

> So, YES, CA forests suffer from neglect and mismanagement. So, SL0W MAN, keep denying SCIENCE - that just confirms your supreme ignorance.

That\'s not science - it\'s obvious commercial interest. The \"mismanagement\" they object to is the existence of all that virgin forest full of trees that they could cut down and convert into timber that they could sell at a profit.

Logging forests doesn\'t make them fire-resistant. Timber plantations burn just as fast as virgin forest - often quite a bit faster - and they are more vulnerable to diseases and insect infestations. Anything can infect one tree can infect all its genetically identical neighbours.

It\'s not really necessary to point that it was stupid of you to think that this report had anything to do with science, but it\'s still worth reminding anybody silly enough to read any of this stuff that you really are remarkably stupid and gullible.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Flyguy]

On Monday, September 21, 2020 at 11:46:25 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Tuesday, September 22, 2020 at 12:08:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 9:43:54 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, September 21, 2020 at 2:21:59 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 12:34:01 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 1:46:50 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 4:44:02 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 3:23:52 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 6:13:35 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 10:36:05 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 7:54:04 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 12:46:53 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 12:36:17 AM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 3:18:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 7:12:07 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 9:57:25 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 10:41:40 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 12:02:25 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 9:34:30 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, September 11, 2020 at 12:44:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 7:49:06 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 11:42:11 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wyrjcsjemde1gqw/AACymDmZ2Ul7OZwed4XovQL5a?dl=0

snip


Hey SL0W MAN,
Your brain is so IMPERVIOUS to intelligent thought that I think the Chicoms are interested in studying you. I believe I have posted this before, but here it is again:
https://lhc.ca.gov/sites/lhc.ca.gov/files/Reports/242/Report242.pdf
Here is a quote from this report:
\"During its review, the Commission found that California’s forests suffer from neglect and mismanagement, resulting in overcrowding that leaves them susceptible to disease, insects, and wildfire.\"
And:
\"A century of mismanaging Sierra Nevada forests has brought an unprecedented environmental catastrophe that impacts all Californians - and with it, a rare opportunity for transformational culture change in forest management practices.

A report clearly written by people who want to log the forests and sell the timber from the trees they want an excuse to cut down.

So, YES, CA forests suffer from neglect and mismanagement. So, SL0W MAN, keep denying SCIENCE - that just confirms your supreme ignorance.

That\'s not science - it\'s obvious commercial interest. The \"mismanagement\" they object to is the existence of all that virgin forest full of trees that they could cut down and convert into timber that they could sell at a profit.

Logging forests doesn\'t make them fire-resistant. Timber plantations burn just as fast as virgin forest - often quite a bit faster - and they are more vulnerable to diseases and insect infestations. Anything can infect one tree can infect all its genetically identical neighbours.

It\'s not really necessary to point that it was stupid of you to think that this report had anything to do with science, but it\'s still worth reminding anybody silly enough to read any of this stuff that you really are remarkably stupid and gullible.

--
SL0W MAN, Sydney

Hey SL0W MAN,

You are SO consistently wrong; the Commission that produced this report is bipartisan. This is directly from the report that you did not read:

The Little Hoover Commission, formally known as the Milton Marks “Little Hoover” Commission on California State Government Organization and Economy, is an independent state oversight agency. By statute, the Commission is a bipartisan board composed of five public members appointed by the governor, four public members appointed by the Legislature, two senators and two assemblymembers.

Of course, they don\'t do all the work:

The Commission fulfills this charge by listening to the public, consulting with
the experts and conferring with the wise. In the course of its investigations, the Commission typically impanels advisory committees, conducts public hearings and visits government operations in action.

And, of course, you didn\'t produce a SINGLE reference that supports your position. Typical SL0W MAN bullshit.