mold forms on cords, knobs, and tool handles

[The Daring Dufas]

On 3/3/2013 7:50 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 19:03:47 -0600, The Daring Dufas
the-daring-dufas@stinky-finger.net> wrote:

There comes a time in a mans life where he becomes so intolerant
of being in the employ of actinic sphincters...

Was "actinic" the word you wanted? If you meant "flaming"... It's not
really a synonym.

I meant it to be a play on words since "actinic" is closer to "glowing"
than "flaming". Many unpleasant people are anything but brilliant and
full of light. ^_^

It appears you were responding to me and JL at the same time.

TDD

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 17:07:26 +0000 (UTC), Al Schmidt
<aschm@notforspam.com> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote on Fri, 01 Mar 2013 18:47:40 -0800:

I also heated some of the white stuff on a microscope slide. It melted
like plastic (burning my fingers in the process). The white stuff also
disolved nicely in acetone.

Those were fantastic pictures.

The microscope photos were awful, grainy, and somewhat otto focus but
sufficient to make a few observations:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/>
I left the microscope setup in my office and will try to take some
better pictures with better objective lenses and better lighting on
Monday night. Bottom lighting didn't work because the "plastic rot"
was too thick. It also wrecked the focus as my depth of field is very
limited at x100 and x400. Maybe lower power will help.

Ever wonder who makes the tool handles?
<http://www.alhandles.com>
Nothing on their site about the problem, or even what type of plastics
are used.

Typical acrylic extruded rods:
<http://www.tapplastics.com/product/plastics/plastic_rods_tubes_shapes/colored_acrylic_rod/148>

I always assumed it was mold, but, now,
I must rethink 'what' it is.

It's not mold. It looks, acts, burns, melts, and disolves like
acrylic plastic. It's translucent, not white. It doesn't grow, has
no structure, doesn't creat colonies, and doesn't produce spores.

I don't remember trying acetone, but, my screwdrivers still have a
hint of the white stuff from years past, so I will try that to see.

Hold it. Don't try using acetone to clean your screwdriver. It will
attack and make a sticky mess of the good parts of the screwdriver
handle. Acetone will dissolve acrylic plastic which is what I guess
the handles are made from. Consult a chemical compatibilty chart for
plastics before using any solvents.
<http://www.tapplastics.com/uploads/pdf/acrylite_chem_resist.pdf>
For cleaning, use anything that will scrape the stuff off, such as a
knife blade, scouring pad, or sandpaper. Use a buffing wheel to
retore the shine.

Thank you very much for the wonderful experimental work. You're in
the top 1% of all people who THINK on this planet!

Thanks again. I'll spare you my lecture on the topic. The simple
version is from Sherlock Holmes, where Watson "sees" but does not
"observe". Plastic rot is similar in that we "see" mold, but few have
the time, abilities, and equipment to test if it's really mold.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Al Schmidt]

Jeff Liebermann wrote on Fri, 01 Mar 2013 18:47:40 -0800:

I also heated some of the white stuff on a microscope slide. It melted
like plastic (burning my fingers in the process). The white stuff also
disolved nicely in acetone.

Hi Jeff,

Those were fantastic pictures. I always assumed it was mold, but, now,
I must rethink 'what' it is.

I don't remember trying acetone, but, my screwdrivers still have a
hint of the white stuff from years past, so I will try that to see.

Thank you very much for the wonderful experimental work. You're in
the top 1% of all people who THINK on this planet!

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/2/2013 10:17 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
?
? The Daring Dufas wrote:
??
?? There comes a time in a mans life where he becomes so intolerant of
?? being in the employ of actinic sphincters that the he fears life in
?? prison for stomping the asshole until he quits twitching. I've had to
?? hide my crowbars whenever some of them got around me so I decided the
?? risk was too great and abandoned the corporate world for a life of
?? independent contracting. ^_^
?
?
? You were only six when you did that. ;-)
?

That's when I was remanded to the Catholic Parochial Gulag back in the
50's and introduced to Sister Godzilla. Child care was based on sheer
terror back then. That's why I don't like folks who mistreat kids. When
I was six, I decided all adults were full of crap, the mistake I made
was letting the nuns know it.

Your next mistake was growing up. ;-)

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
? Thanks again. I'll spare you my lecture on the topic. The simple
? version is from Sherlock Holmes, where Watson "sees" but does not
? "observe". Plastic rot is similar in that we "see" mold, but few have
? the time, abilities, and equipment to test if it's really mold.

Or in other words, another failure of the proper application of
Occam's Razor. All things being equal, the simplest explanation is that
it is mold.

The failure is that accepting the simplest explanation "it is mold"
limits the search for "all things" and some important facts are missed.

I see this all too often in computers, where people without a clue, fix
a broken system by replacing parts randomly.

If there are 5 componens in a system, replacing any one of them has a chance
of fixing the system, possibly as much as 20% and then declaring themselves
"experts".

Shotgunning is the true mark of a very poor tech. They don't want to
learn why things fail, or what parts are actually needed.

 

[The Daring Dufas]

On 3/3/2013 2:02 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/2/2013 10:17 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
?
? The Daring Dufas wrote:
??
?? There comes a time in a mans life where he becomes so intolerant of
?? being in the employ of actinic sphincters that the he fears life in
?? prison for stomping the asshole until he quits twitching. I've had to
?? hide my crowbars whenever some of them got around me so I decided the
?? risk was too great and abandoned the corporate world for a life of
?? independent contracting. ^_^
?
?
? You were only six when you did that. ;-)
?

That's when I was remanded to the Catholic Parochial Gulag back in the
50's and introduced to Sister Godzilla. Child care was based on sheer
terror back then. That's why I don't like folks who mistreat kids. When
I was six, I decided all adults were full of crap, the mistake I made
was letting the nuns know it.


Your next mistake was growing up. ;-)

I met a cute little 4 year old girl one day and because I flirt with
gals of all ages, I asked her if she would marry me when I grow up.
The tyke looked me up and down and said "You're already grown up." to
which I replied, "You're the first girl who's ever said that to me." ^_^

TDD

 

[Ralph Mowery]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote in message
news:slrnkj7asi.cl6.gsm@cable.mendelson.com...

I see this all too often in computers, where people without a clue, fix
a broken system by replacing parts randomly.

If there are 5 componens in a system, replacing any one of them has a
chance
of fixing the system, possibly as much as 20% and then declaring
themselves
"experts".

Often it is the same component that fails 90% of the time. That makes the
'experts' have an even beter reputation if they know of this part.

I just fixed the dial light on a radio of mine that has a known failuer of a
driver transistor. It was a $ 2 part and about an hour of my time instead
of spending about $ 100 to ship it off and get it back. I did not trouble
shoot it, just tried the 'known' fix. The rado and where the part is
located at is past my ability to do actual trouble shooting, but not beyond
my ability to actually replace the part.

When I was working I would sometimes get a call while I was at home on
something at work was not working. By knowing some known problems, I could
tell the ones at work a thing or two to try,and many times that would fix
the problem.

 

[Dan Espen]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> writes:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Thanks again. I'll spare you my lecture on the topic. The simple
version is from Sherlock Holmes, where Watson "sees" but does not
"observe". Plastic rot is similar in that we "see" mold, but few have
the time, abilities, and equipment to test if it's really mold.

Or in other words, another failure of the proper application of
Occam's Razor. All things being equal, the simplest explanation is that
it is mold.

I can't believe this thread is still going on and people are still suggesting
mold. A few seconds with Google will explain the process.

Try "white powder screwdriver" and actually read a few of the posts.

Then maybe the OP will come back and report what he smells.

This was discussed here in alt.home.repair a few years ago.

--
Dan Espen

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Thanks again. I'll spare you my lecture on the topic. The simple
version is from Sherlock Holmes, where Watson "sees" but does not
"observe". Plastic rot is similar in that we "see" mold, but few have
the time, abilities, and equipment to test if it's really mold.

Or in other words, another failure of the proper application of
Occam's Razor. All things being equal, the simplest explanation is that
it is mold.

The failure is that accepting the simplest explanation "it is mold"
limits the search for "all things" and some important facts are missed.

I see this all too often in computers, where people without a clue, fix
a broken system by replacing parts randomly.

If there are 5 componens in a system, replacing any one of them has a chance
of fixing the system, possibly as much as 20% and then declaring themselves
"experts".


Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379
It's Spring here in Jerusalem!!!

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
news:U-adnatXObEUM67MnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

Shotgunning is the true mark of a very poor tech. They don't
want to learn why things fail, or what parts are actually needed.

Might I respectfully semi-disagree?

I have always wanted to understand >>why<< something wasn't working correctly
before I fixed it. But as products have become more complex and harder to
troubleshoot, it seems increasingly necessary to, on some occasions, shotgun.
I don't like it, but if you're running a repair business, you have to get the
item out the door to stay in business.

If it's of any interest, I have never had a callback on anything I've
repaired. But that was in the days when virtually all electronics was composed
of discrete components you could unsolder and test, if need be.

 

[Attila Iskander]

"Ralph Mowery" <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B_CdndgJkc04grPMnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

"micky" <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:2icri8llum4a5m0qp0g2rkt9k5lj5m6p1j@4ax.com...
My shop is in my basement, which has always seemed to be a very dry
floor. However, about 4% of my cords, my spare radio and tv knobs,
and the handles of my tools get a think layer of some sort of mold on
them. It's like a grey dust. (Or some other light color, I forget.)

I wasg them in the dishwasher and they come out clean, but once in the
basement again, after a few months, U notice that the same ones have
mold. And the rest never get mold.

I suppose I could just ignore this, since it doesn't spread, but I
wonder if any of you have ideas. No other part of my house is neat
or clean, but the shop is the most important place, and I'd like it to
be clean.

The plastic in some tool handles will break down over a period of time.
It is just bad quality plastic. Even some other wise good tools have this
problem.
If it only some tools and always the same ones, you just have to replace
the tools when the handles fall off.

Just use that dipping handle cover.
Here's one such product
<http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip>
I have different tool boxes for different uses, such as electrical,
plumbing, carpentry, car, bicycle, motorbike, general, etc.
I get it in different colors, to identify which tool box or "application"
tool kit they belong to. It has really cut down on tool "evaporation". It
also has made enforcement of tool replacement to it's proper box far easier
with other family members.

 

[Dan Espen]

Al Schmidt <aschm@notforspam.com> writes:

Jeff Liebermann wrote on Sun, 03 Mar 2013 10:03:27 -0800:

Thanks again. I'll spare you my lecture on the topic. The simple
version is from Sherlock Holmes, where Watson "sees" but does not
"observe". Plastic rot is similar in that we "see" mold, but few have
the time, abilities, and equipment to test if it's really mold.

... last post sent too soon by accident ... trying again ...

Hi Jeff,
I think it's a rare combination of both intelligence, wit, and
inquisitiveness, plus the rarest of all desire to help others
to answer the question, that makes you so valuable for us.

A few on alt.home.repair have that quality - but not very many
(probably a half dozen, e.g., Oren, Jim Elbrecht, SMS,
Trader4, Ed Pawlowski, & DerbyDad03, krw, etc.).

Plus, very few take the time and energy to post a photograph,
which, in my humble opinion, is just plain old COMMON COURTESY
when asking a question.

Some, but not all, make statements that aren't backed up
by URLs (when they should be).

And, most just drop off, without also writing up a SUMMARY
of lessons learned. Some do, but very few.

Lastly, some get downright acidic when they are confronted
with alternative information. They're the worst, of course,
because they're a cancer on the discussion.

Anyway, I, for one, greatly appreciate your efforts at figuring
this out. To my knowledge, it has never been figured out before
definitively (although I see a post that says it was discussed
in a.h.r but the poster didn't provide any URLs so we have to
look it up to see what the result was and the proof supplied).

Here you go:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/alt.home.repair/screw$20driver$20handle/alt.home.repair/6F2DSkPIgM0/qe7WX3mCR7IJ

http://tinyurl.com/bwwkvgr


--
Dan Espen

 

[Al Schmidt]

Jeff Liebermann wrote on Sun, 03 Mar 2013 10:03:27 -0800:

Thanks again. I'll spare you my lecture on the topic. The simple
version is from Sherlock Holmes, where Watson "sees" but does not
"observe". Plastic rot is similar in that we "see" mold, but few have
the time, abilities, and equipment to test if it's really mold.

Hi Jeff,
I think it's a rare combination of both intelligence, wit, and
inquisitiveness, plus the rarest of all desire to help others
to answer the question, that makes you so valuable for us.

A few on alt.home.repair have that quality - but not very many
(probably a half dozen, e.g., Oren, krw,

 

[Al Schmidt]

Jeff Liebermann wrote on Sun, 03 Mar 2013 10:03:27 -0800:

Thanks again. I'll spare you my lecture on the topic. The simple
version is from Sherlock Holmes, where Watson "sees" but does not
"observe". Plastic rot is similar in that we "see" mold, but few have
the time, abilities, and equipment to test if it's really mold.

.... last post sent too soon by accident ... trying again ...

Hi Jeff,
I think it's a rare combination of both intelligence, wit, and
inquisitiveness, plus the rarest of all desire to help others
to answer the question, that makes you so valuable for us.

A few on alt.home.repair have that quality - but not very many
(probably a half dozen, e.g., Oren, Jim Elbrecht, SMS,
Trader4, Ed Pawlowski, & DerbyDad03, krw, etc.).

Plus, very few take the time and energy to post a photograph,
which, in my humble opinion, is just plain old COMMON COURTESY
when asking a question.

Some, but not all, make statements that aren't backed up
by URLs (when they should be).

And, most just drop off, without also writing up a SUMMARY
of lessons learned. Some do, but very few.

Lastly, some get downright acidic when they are confronted
with alternative information. They're the worst, of course,
because they're a cancer on the discussion.

Anyway, I, for one, greatly appreciate your efforts at figuring
this out. To my knowledge, it has never been figured out before
definitively (although I see a post that says it was discussed
in a.h.r but the poster didn't provide any URLs so we have to
look it up to see what the result was and the proof supplied).

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 11:31:47 -0500, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
wrote:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/alt.home.repair/screw$20driver$20handle/alt.home.repair/6F2DSkPIgM0/qe7WX3mCR7IJ
http://tinyurl.com/bwwkvgr

That was a discussion over the Xcelite and Craftsman nutdrivers that
stink. There is nothing in that thread that I can find that even
mentions "mold" on the plastic handles. Please try to stay on topic.

There is also some wrong information in the thread.
1. It's not the plastic handles that stinks. It's the caesin (milk
based) plastic cases that reek. I have several of these and can
confirm that the drivers are fine and the cases are the source of the
smell.
2. The handles are made from acrylic and not vinyl as claimed. Vinyl
is quite flexible and very different from the hard acrylic. Hoewever,
I have NOT been able to definitively identify the type of plastic used
in my Vaco and Craftsman screwdrivers. My guess is acrylic, but I'm
not 100.0% sure. Maybe a burn test:
<http://www.boedeker.com/burntest.htm>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 15:52:11 +0000 (UTC), Al Schmidt
<aschm@notforspam.com> wrote:

I think it's a rare combination of both intelligence, wit, and
inquisitiveness, plus the rarest of all desire to help others
to answer the question, that makes you so valuable for us.

Thanks. Hopefully that balances my previous screwups, errors, and bad
logic. It's impossible to write as much as I do, and not get
something wrong occasionally.

Lastly, some get downright acidic when they are confronted
with alternative information. They're the worst, of course,
because they're a cancer on the discussion.

That doesn't bother me much. I'm used to it. What bothers me are
one-line postings, that offer little thought and less information.
Unfortunately, many web forum pages have so many navigation aids and
so much advertising on their pages, that long and detailed replies
seem to be discouraged. The resultant one-liners are of little value.

To get a decent answer on usenet, one needs to provide:
1. What problem are you trying to solve or what are you
trying to accomplish? (Keep it simple)
2. What do you have to work with? (Make, model, version, etc)
3. What have you done so far and what happened?
4. Where are you stuck?
It is possible to get answers without all the aforementioned
information, but it is much more difficult and tends to attract vague
guesswork type answers. Besides, my crystal ball is being repaired by
my wizard, so I can't temporarily guess what someone is asking.

Anyway, I, for one, greatly appreciate your efforts at figuring
this out. To my knowledge, it has never been figured out before
definitively (although I see a post that says it was discussed
in a.h.r but the poster didn't provide any URLs so we have to
look it up to see what the result was and the proof supplied).

Thanks again. I did the usual Google searching for prior research
into the nature of the plastic "mold" and found little besides bad
guesses and vague assertions. I found plenty of complaints, but no
analysis. That's why I decided that it was time to dig in and analyze
the stuff. The convenient discovery of my drawer full of "moldy" nut
drivers also inspired the investigation.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Dan Espen]

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 11:31:47 -0500, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net
wrote:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/alt.home.repair/screw$20driver$20handle/alt.home.repair/6F2DSkPIgM0/qe7WX3mCR7IJ
http://tinyurl.com/bwwkvgr

That was a discussion over the Xcelite and Craftsman nutdrivers that
stink. There is nothing in that thread that I can find that even
mentions "mold" on the plastic handles. Please try to stay on topic.

The stink and the white powder are part of the same process.

Do some searches, I've already supplied working keywords.

--
Dan Espen

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 13:02:13 -0500, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 11:31:47 -0500, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net
wrote:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/alt.home.repair/screw$20driver$20handle/alt.home.repair/6F2DSkPIgM0/qe7WX3mCR7IJ
http://tinyurl.com/bwwkvgr

That was a discussion over the Xcelite and Craftsman nutdrivers that
stink. There is nothing in that thread that I can find that even
mentions "mold" on the plastic handles. Please try to stay on topic.

The stink and the white powder are part of the same process.
Do some searches, I've already supplied working keywords.

Much as I appreciate your efforts, I don't consider myself responsible
for proving *your* point. If you believe that the white powder in the
handle, and the smell coming from the case, are one and the same,
methinks it is your responsibility to supply the relevant links which
demonstrate the connection and describes the process. The above URL
never even mentioned white powder or a similar problem. Got a better
URL?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[William Sommerwerck]

I've been sniffing Xcelite (and similar) tools on and off for years, and I
always assumed the odor came from the handle, not the case.

 

On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 15:46:39 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

I've been sniffing Xcelite (and similar) tools on and off for years, and I
always assumed the odor came from the handle, not the case.

It does. The ones without a case smell just as bad (just got a bunch
of screwdrivers at work last week).