Math and electrical desgin

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 08:02:01 -0700 (PDT), jjhudak4@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 1:54:15 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 17:17:41 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 29/03/20 16:36, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 07:39:16 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2020-03-28 23:31, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 00:55:47 +0000, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 28/03/20 22:48, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Instinct is super useful for generating ideas.  We come up with some scheme by
instinct, but then test it by math.  The math involved is super familiar--what's
the noise floor, the bandwidth, the settling time, and so on.  It's the
familiarity that makes that seem like it's the same as design instinct, but it
isn't.

Very true, IMNSHO.

Practice without theory is blind fumbling.

It built aqueducts, ships, roads, cathedrals, all sorts of stuff.

Not by fiddling, though--experience accumulates. Even a pyramid will
fall down if you build it too steep.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meidum_Pyramid

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Sure, fiddling evolved and techniques were passed down and evolved.
But as long as we don't already know everything, some occasional
fiddling can discover stuff.

It is often said that the most exciting sound in science
isn't "eureka", but is "that's strange".

That's as good a design strategy as inserting "fundamental
advance occurs here" into a plan. Infamously that didn't
work for the HP Itanium processor's compilers, as those
that were knowledgeable predicted.

x86 was obsolete the day it was invented.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Curious....What is the analytical basis for this sweeping statement?

Analytical? I wouldn't know how to do that.

But more registers, and especially serious protections (that people
actually use!) and better attention to security would have been nice.

On a PDP-11 with memory protection enabled, you couldn't execute data.
A stack couldn't overflow in code space, or into any space. You
couldn't write into code space.

Of course, the way people designed c didn't help a bit.

it is one example of a segmented hw architecture.
Whether one 'likes' or 'dislikes' the architecture is somewhat based on what seems more intuitive to them. It's a machine that performs computing tasks, of which there are many approaches to accomplish the same thing.

Viruses should be flat impossible. Some day they will be, but not on
x86 or Windows.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard

 

bilboard@eu.eu wrote in news:5e831d67$0$15173$426a74cc@news.free.fr:

> probably for some sort of black sabbath ceremonies ...

They were not even around then, idiot.

and you are
haunting Usenet

Really? I'm not dead, so I do not see how that is possible.

> for years with your shitty posts.

Show me one.

 

bilboard@eu.eu wrote in news:5e831d67$0$15173$426a74cc@news.free.fr:

> PS. Take it easy,

PUAD

Puss Up And Die.

 

Le 31/03/2020 à 18:25, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org a Êcrit :

You're an idiot. He didn't kill any of them.
Oh tell us then what he did with snakes in a garbage cans? I'm curious.

You and yours should be erased from the human gene pool.

Said the man when at the time kid, has learned to count snakes into a
garbage cans ... I've nothing to learn from that kind of "man"

You're probably that kind of "deep-south" indigene, You a amoeba from
the Bayou Numero Uno :-D

 

bilboard@eu.eu wrote in news:5e8379ab$0$5886$426a34cc@news.free.fr:

Le 31/03/2020 Ă  18:25, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org a
Êcrit :
You're an idiot. He didn't kill any of them.
Oh tell us then what he did with snakes in a garbage cans? I'm
curious.

There was a woods behind our house. There were lots of things to
collect. Walnuts, salamanders, crayfish, blacksnakes, snapping
turtles... lots of things.

The walnuts went on the back porch to dry out.

The salamanders and crayfish were let go after examining them for a
bit. The snakes got released, but not until after he sent me through
the front door with one wrapped around my waist as a belt.

The snapping turtle became soup.

You and yours should be erased from the human gene pool.

Said the man when at the time kid, has learned to count snakes
into a garbage cans ... I've nothing to learn from that kind of
"man"

You need to learn some english grammar and composition. Not hard
to count live brains cells into a your skull cavity. No more than
two would fit inside that thick bone, boy.

It is not that you have nothing to learn. It is that learning is
something out of your reach. You are ineducable.

Shit has a tendency to be that way, and you certainly are that.

You're probably that kind of "deep-south" indigene, You a amoeba
from the Bayou Numero Uno :-D

English, you senile, drunken dumbfuck.

Better yet, have another bottle and...

PUAD

Puss Up And DIE.

 

[Flyguy]

On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 3:37:33 AM UTC-7, bilb...@eu.eu wrote:

Le 30/03/2020 à 17:27, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org a Êcrit :
bilboard@eu.eu wrote in news:5e820499$0$16830$426a74cc@news.free.fr:

Le 30/03/2020 à 15:28, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence..org a
écrit :
Nice try. I learned to swim by 2 and knew my alphabet and
could
easily count the number of blacksnakes my brother had outside in
the garbage cans.
Enchanted!
Swimming, learning Alphabet (which one by BTW?)

Learn to read, you retarded fuck.

...pfff

Is that a word, peter puffer boy?
Yeah I puff you puffy vain old man!

as anyone
down here,

Down where, dumbfuck? You already down in Satan's domain?
Not as deeply as you are, remember You and yours kill snakes ...
probably for some sort of black sabbath ceremonies ... and you are
haunting Usenet for years with your shitty posts.

running after snakes,

You are mumbling again, fucktard. You must be a Trump supporter.

a kid-retarded

Speak English, dumbfuck. You sully the human race with the depths
of your stupidity.
I don't feel to polish my English for you Numero Uno.

of a retarded
family of yours ... who cares??

You are mumbling again, twerp. And your assessment regarding "who
cares", I could give a fat flying fuck about, but I don't.
Easy to yell with a mouth if you have and two arms you haven't, so you
cannot.

You should better learn something
useful.

Yuo should take a remedial English grammar and composition course,
you stupid sub-human fucktard.
That proves that's enough for you.

You asshole Numero Uno

Nope. Just one among billions. You do not even rate with a
paramecium, however, but your stench tops them all.
Being you among those billions parameciums?


I have a nice nine inch blade to go up in your retarded punk fuck
ass with, boy. But you'd probably like that.
You better think, go to your Church and conclude on your sins you old
man in a wheelchair and that it's always you the ass hole Numero Uno :-D


PS. Take it easy, I'm enjoying and laughing these days about my assault
... ! Bwa aha ah ah

You're just wasting your time feeding the Troll.

 

Le 31/03/2020 à 19:25, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org a Êcrit :

The snapping turtle became soup.
Really impressive, bon appetit!

You need to learn some english grammar and composition.

Yeah may be but yours is not so brilliant, I repeat my English is just
perfect for you Decadent Numero Uno :-D

English, you senile, drunken dumbfuck.

I'm a boy as you said, not a senile as you, laying in a wheelchair
haunting the Usenet, where do you come from for eating those weird
things? ... for sure you experienced eating Pangolins and other
Civettes, Pffkr ! So decadent indeed ! :-D

BTW don't see any valuable contribution on electronics from you these
months. You're a shitty Numero Uno ! :-(

 

bilboard@eu.eu wrote in news:5e8393c9$0$15176$426a34cc@news.free.fr:

Le 31/03/2020 à 20:39, Flyguy a Êcrit :
You're just wasting your time feeding the Troll.
The post was about math but The Numero Uno was sticked about non
relevant and shitty things as arguing the alt-key's ...etc.

He enjoys eating shit so I'll serve him

Wise advise by the way ... I give up.

You are dumber than dogshit, BTW,

My post was valid and your lame response is what was not.

...and you should fucking give up.

Go find a nice temporary morgue and hop inside for a bit.

 

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 09:09:36 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 08:02:01 -0700 (PDT), jjhudak4@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, March 30, 2020 at 1:54:15 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

<clip>

x86 was obsolete the day it was invented.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Curious....What is the analytical basis for this sweeping statement?

The main problem was the segmented memory model and the lack of 32 bit
(or even 24 bit) (address) registers,

The segmented approach is quite OK if you have a RTOS mindset with
multiple smallish independent tasks communicating with each other. The
segmentation would allow also some memory protection between tasks and
also within task code/datas/stack.

Unfortunately Intel published their RMX/86 RTOS as late as 1980, By
that time many companies using x86 had already made their own
incompatible RTOS kernels.

Analytical? I wouldn't know how to do that.

But more registers, and especially serious protections (that people
actually use!) and better attention to security would have been nice.

On a PDP-11 with memory protection enabled, you couldn't execute data.
A stack couldn't overflow in code space, or into any space. You
couldn't write into code space.

The problem with PDP-11 was the 64 KiB program address space. Not a
problem if you had the RTOS mentality designing multiple small tasks
living somewhere in the 256 KiB or 4 MiB physical address space.

Trying to shoehorn a large program into 64 KiB program address space
was a mess, requiring overload loading etc.

There was a virtual Fortran implementation that allowed mapping one 8
KiB window to any part of the physical memory (256 KiB or 4 MiB) to
access the big virtual Fortran array in physical memory,

Of course, this was as messy as switching segment registers on x86 in
order to access different elements in a large physical memory array.

Of course, the way people designed c didn't help a bit.

Later x86 models have some protection bits in the segment registers.
If the OSes would have kept the segments sufficiently separate (at
least 64 KiB between start of segments, one could not have overwritten
wrong areas. Only in current processors are protection bits added to
virtual memory page tables.

it is one example of a segmented hw architecture.
Whether one 'likes' or 'dislikes' the architecture is somewhat based on what seems more intuitive to them. It's a machine that performs computing tasks, of which there are many approaches to accomplish the same thing.


Viruses should be flat impossible. Some day they will be, but not on
x86 or Windows.

 

Le 31/03/2020 à 20:39, Flyguy a Êcrit :
> You're just wasting your time feeding the Troll.
The post was about math but The Numero Uno was sticked about non
relevant and shitty things as arguing the alt-key's ...etc.

He enjoys eating shit so I'll serve him

Wise advise by the way ... I give up.

 

bilbaord@eu.eu wrote in news:5e838ec3$0$15201$426a34cc@news.free.fr:

> BTW don't see any valuable contribution

I am certain you do not examine my posts.

PUAD.

 

Le 31/03/2020 à 21:07, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org a Êcrit :
> My post was valid and your lame response is what was not.
I offered you a truck load of shit ... and you have eat it with appetit
! Surprisingly. Don't argue anything more then, you are definitely out
of anything about electronics engineering. Decadent Numero Uno as you
named yourself

 

bilboard@eu.eu wrote in news:5e83a4d1$0$15189$426a74cc@news.free.fr:

Le 31/03/2020 Ă  21:07, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org a
Êcrit :
My post was valid and your lame response is what was not.
I offered you a truck load of shit ...

Stupid. Immature. Childish.

and you have eat it with
appetit !

Stupid. Immature. Childish. Retarded. Untrue.

>Surprisingly.

Foreign fucktard. Take an english course. Dumbfuck.

>Don't argue anything more then,

English much, idiot?

you are
definitely out of anything about electronics engineering.

Got more on the ball than an immature punk fuck like you.

Decadent
Numero Uno as you named yourself

You cannot write correctly. Looks like you cannot read either.

Go away, immature little child.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 1/4/20 6:17 am, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

Later x86 models have some protection bits in the segment registers.
If the OSes would have kept the segments sufficiently separate (at
least 64 KiB between start of segments, one could not have overwritten
wrong areas. Only in current processors are protection bits added to
virtual memory page tables.

As OS/2 did. Microsoft simply refused to acknowledge that there is a
right time to break some old badly-behaved programs to improve the
security of every new program going forward. Unbelievable to me, but it
was entirely deliberate.

CH

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 5:39:14 AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:

On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 3:37:33 AM UTC-7, bilb...@eu.eu wrote:
Le 30/03/2020 à 17:27, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org a Êcrit :
bilboard@eu.eu wrote in news:5e820499$0$16830$426a74cc@news.free.fr:

Le 30/03/2020 à 15:28, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org a
écrit :
Nice try. I learned to swim by 2 and knew my alphabet and
could
easily count the number of blacksnakes my brother had outside in
the garbage cans.
Enchanted!
Swimming, learning Alphabet (which one by BTW?)

Learn to read, you retarded fuck.

...pfff

Is that a word, peter puffer boy?
Yeah I puff you puffy vain old man!

as anyone
down here,

Down where, dumbfuck? You already down in Satan's domain?
Not as deeply as you are, remember You and yours kill snakes ...
probably for some sort of black sabbath ceremonies ... and you are
haunting Usenet for years with your shitty posts.

running after snakes,

You are mumbling again, fucktard. You must be a Trump supporter.

a kid-retarded

Speak English, dumbfuck. You sully the human race with the depths
of your stupidity.
I don't feel to polish my English for you Numero Uno.

of a retarded
family of yours ... who cares??

You are mumbling again, twerp. And your assessment regarding "who
cares", I could give a fat flying fuck about, but I don't.
Easy to yell with a mouth if you have and two arms you haven't, so you
cannot.

You should better learn something
useful.

Yuo should take a remedial English grammar and composition course,
you stupid sub-human fucktard.
That proves that's enough for you.

You asshole Numero Uno

Nope. Just one among billions. You do not even rate with a
paramecium, however, but your stench tops them all.
Being you among those billions parameciums?


I have a nice nine inch blade to go up in your retarded punk fuck
ass with, boy. But you'd probably like that.
You better think, go to your Church and conclude on your sins you old
man in a wheelchair and that it's always you the ass hole Numero Uno :-D


PS. Take it easy, I'm enjoying and laughing these days about my assault
... ! Bwa aha ah ah

You're just wasting your time feeding the Troll.

Takes one to know one.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2020-03-30, upsidedown@downunder.com <upsidedown@downunder.com> wrote:

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 07:59:40 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

On 2020-03-28, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote:
In article <r5lujd$1pt7$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org says...

It is not an uninterruptible power supply. It is a microprocessor.
Need the Latin Mu symbol Âľ And you knew that. You're just lazy.

And you are just intentionally setting out to annoy the Greeks by
calling "symbol Âľ" "Latin"!

According to ISO it's Latin.

Âľ - "Latin-1" "micro sign". code point U+00B5

The micro sign (from Greek) was already in DEC MCS (Multinational
Character Set) at position 0xB5 to indicate 0.000001.

ISO 8859-1 adopted the DEC MCS nearly completely. The ISO-8859-1 was
then nicknamed Latin-1 That nicknaming doesn't make 0xB5 Latin.



This one is Greek

? - "Greek" "lower case Mu" code point U+03BC

I assume you are referring to ISO 8859-7 as "Greek",

it's in the block of unicode called "Green and Coptic", but yeah also
in that (and other) 8-bit "Greek" code pages.

> It has that symbol among ordinary greek lower case letters.

--
Jasen.

 

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 12:29:49 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 07:59:40 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

On 2020-03-28, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote:
In article <r5lujd$1pt7$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org says...

It is not an uninterruptible power supply. It is a microprocessor.
Need the Latin Mu symbol ľ And you knew that. You're just lazy.

And you are just intentionally setting out to annoy the Greeks by
calling "symbol ľ" "Latin"!

According to ISO it's Latin.

ľ - "Latin-1" "micro sign". code point U+00B5

The micro sign (from Greek) was already in DEC MCS (Multinational
Character Set) at position 0xB5 to indicate 0.000001.

ISO 8859-1 adopted the DEC MCS nearly completely. The ISO-8859-1 was
then nicknamed Latin-1 That nicknaming doesn't make 0xB5 Latin.



This one is Greek

? - "Greek" "lower case Mu" code point U+03BC

I assume you are referring to ISO 8859-7 as "Greek",

It has that symbol among ordinary greek lower case letters.

Please note that ISO 8859-7 doesn't have the micro symbol in position
0xB5.

Good grief, if you get confused by a capacitor labeled 22uf, you need
a new job.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard

 

[Joerg]

On 2020-03-29 16:31, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 29/03/20 20:14, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-03-29 02:54, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 29/03/20 04:31, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 00:55:47 +0000, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 28/03/20 22:48, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Instinct is super useful for generating ideas. We come up with some
scheme by
instinct, but then test it by math. The math involved is super
familiar--what's
the noise floor, the bandwidth, the settling time, and so on.
It's the
familiarity that makes that seem like it's the same as design
instinct, but it
isn't.

Very true, IMNSHO.

Practice without theory is blind fumbling.

It built aqueducts, ships, roads, cathedrals, all sorts of stuff.

Er, no.

Wells cathedral is near me. There are strange additions
that became necessary because it rapidly started falling
down.


Check out some of the Roman structures in Germany. I lived there and
participated in events in some. Amazing. 1500+ years old, rock-solid,
where "modern" buildings are generally gone in less than 200 years.

As a side note, some of the best engineers I worked with have no
formal academic education.

We have structures more than a millennia older than that.

Thing is, the are tons of themfrom the Romans, not just a few.

But that's a classic case of "selection bias" or
"survivor bias, as I'm sure you are aware

I wouldn't have brought it up if it was due to survivor bias. Roman
buildings were generally of very good quality and simply lasted a long
time. Similar with some of the northern European building types but not
all of them. The most stunning construction method I saw was Scottish. I
once rented the top floor of a house near Aberdeen that was built from
huge granite blocks. Almost indestructible. However, the owners (who
lived on the first floor) said there was slight radio activity emanating
from those blocks. Neither he nor anyone else was concerned about that
and since Scots have a good average life span it seems not to matter much.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 3:58:29 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

I wouldn't have brought it up if it was due to survivor bias. Roman
buildings were generally of very good quality and simply lasted a long
time. Similar with some of the northern European building types but not
all of them. The most stunning construction method I saw was Scottish. I
once rented the top floor of a house near Aberdeen that was built from
huge granite blocks. Almost indestructible. However, the owners (who
lived on the first floor) said there was slight radio activity emanating
from those blocks. Neither he nor anyone else was concerned about that
and since Scots have a good average life span it seems not to matter much..

Why would there be a problem? The key word there is "slight". Background radiation is not uniform. It varies from place to place. Granite in particular has radioactive content. So do glow in the dark dial watches. It was only the ladies painting them who licked their brushes who developed problems.

--

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 8:03:35 AM UTC+11, Rick C wrote:

On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 3:58:29 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

I wouldn't have brought it up if it was due to survivor bias. Roman
buildings were generally of very good quality and simply lasted a long
time. Similar with some of the northern European building types but not
all of them. The most stunning construction method I saw was Scottish. I
once rented the top floor of a house near Aberdeen that was built from
huge granite blocks. Almost indestructible. However, the owners (who
lived on the first floor) said there was slight radio activity emanating
from those blocks. Neither he nor anyone else was concerned about that
and since Scots have a good average life span it seems not to matter much.

Why would there be a problem? The key word there is "slight". Background radiation is not uniform. It varies from place to place. Granite in particular has radioactive content. So do glow in the dark dial watches. It was only the ladies painting them who licked their brushes who developed problems.

There is a problem

https://www.mskcc.org/blog/5-myths-about-radon-and-lung

There's also a cheap solution, which is to use a fan to suck the radon-loaded air out of the basement fast enough that the radon gets diluted down to a safe level by the outside air being sucked in through the walls and ventilation.

This has been well known for quite a while.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney