locked out

On 5/6/19 9:49 am, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 09:33:03 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:

On 5/6/19 8:34 am, John Larkin wrote:
But for company backup, I take a terabyte USB hard drive home every
couple of months, and stash them in various places. We never write to
the backup drives after they are burned, and very rarely have to read
them.
Make sure you read one regularly, and ensure it has all you think it
does, or you can be sure they will fail when you actually need them.

I have so many that some have to work!

Not if the process for writing or reading them has the same error.
Trust, but verify.

When I do occasionally read a few to look for a file (because someone
has lunched something) they have always worked.

Excellent. Good to be systematic though.
 
On 5/6/19 9:46 am, John Robertson wrote:
On 2019/06/04 4:33 p.m., Clifford Heath wrote:
On 5/6/19 8:34 am, John Larkin wrote:
But for company backup, I take a terabyte USB hard drive home every
couple of months, and stash them in various places. We never write to
the backup drives after they are burned, and very rarely have to read
them.
Make sure you read one regularly, and ensure it has all you think it
does, or you can be sure they will fail when you actually need them.

I have two 4TB drives, one at work and one at home - my laptop is dual
backed up depending on where I am using it. I HATE to lose data!

I do like OSX's Time Machine, and I'd be looking for something similar
in Linux as I will be migrating there sooner or later... Perhaps
Cronopete – an Apple Time Machine Clone For Linux?

I have implemented TM-style backups for Linux using rsync with the
--link-dest option. Here:

#!/bin/sh
#
# Time-Machine style backups for Linux
#

date=`date "+%Y-%m-%dT%H_%M_%S"`
HOME=/home/user/

rsync -azP \
--delete \
--delete-excluded \
--exclude-from=$HOME/.rsync/exclude \
--link-dest=../current \
$HOME user@backupserver:Backups/incomplete_back-$date \
&& ssh user@backupserver \
"mv Backups/incomplete_back-$date Backups/back-$date \
&& rm -f Backups/current \
&& ln -s back-$date Backups/current"

For MySQL database backups (even though I would never choose MySQL) it's
is extremely effective to commit a mysqldump to git, and rsync the
repository somewhere.

Clifford Heath.
 
On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 3:01:33 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 17:51:04 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 17:10:15 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com
wrote:

I can promise you this: I WILL NEVER -- NEVER -- NEVER BUY ANYTHING
WHIRLPOOL AGAIN.
One of my daughters is living with a roommate, and she bought a Samsung
washing machine. It worked fine for a year, then started getting out of
balance faults. They got me to buy a MEMS accelerometer for it, but that
didn't fix the problem. I'm not sure what is wrong with it.

I know our Kenmore washer has a balance ring that is partly filled with
water, and the water somehow sloshes to the right spot to achieve partial
balance of unbalanced loads. It also appear to have some really tricky
software that finds out where the first critical speed is and then uses a
lot of motor current to punch through that critical speed (where the
imbalance causes the maximum deflection). Once above the critical speed,
the vibration is not too bad.

It seems the Samsung may not have this software, or maybe the water
leaked out of a balance ring (or no dynamic balancing feature), or there
is some kind of friction damper that has worn out. Anyway, what look to
be mildly off-balance loads cause the basket to wham against the side of
the machine. I did all I could figure out on it, they are going to try
to wrap an old blanket around the basket and see if that will damp the
vibration. It appears from internet searches that this is a guaranteed
development on these washers! Also, there's nobody within 80 miles that
is even willing to come work on it. Apparently, they all know the Samsung
will just be huge trouble and they won't be able to fix it.

Wow, and I thought the Whirlpool (name your brand here) stuff had
mediocre engineering!

Jon

This is so depressing. I've got 20+ year old Kenmore washer /dryers.
I've replaced some bits, but if one fails in the future...
someone should start making quality homewares... with parts/ service
that lasts for more than 10 years*. I'd pay twice as much for that.

George H.
*my tractor is older than me and I can still get parts and service
at the local Massey-Ferguson dealership.
 
On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 16:46:41 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:

I do like OSX's Time Machine, and I'd be looking for something similar
in Linux as I will be migrating there sooner or later... Perhaps
Cronopete – an Apple Time Machine Clone For Linux?

Cronopete:
<http://www.rastersoft.com/programas/cronopete.html>
I haven't tried it yet,

Instead of file by file backups, I prefer the much faster image
backup. Besides speed, an image backup doesn't care about open files,
hidden files, invalid filenames, trashed filenames, bad clusters, file
locks, deleted files, and even read errors. You get an exact
duplicate of the drive, including all the errors. When backing up the
raw filesystem, an image backup can run on a live system without
requiring exclusive file access.

"Best Open Source Disk Cloning/Backup Software for Linux Servers"
<https://www.tecmint.com/linux-disk-cloning-tools/>

Incidentally, for Windoze desktops, I'm partial to Macrium Reflect
(free):
<https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree>
On recent i7 machines with an SSD I can usually backup at about 7
gigabytes/minute. That's about 9 minutes to backup a typical Windoze
10 drive with 60 GBytes of programs and data.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Tue, 04 Jun 2019 09:45:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 08:19:25 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Our cabin came with a smart thermostat that guests were always leaving
in weird states. I replaced it with a simple one that has a dial to
set temperature, and one switch for the fan, ON-AUTO. It had another
switch OFF-HEAT-AC but I removed that one, so the heat is always on
and can't be set below 40F.

I sometimes wonder why HVAC thermostats measure air temperature in one
part of the room, instead of using multiple sensors to measure the
average temperature of the room. Or, maybe PIR sensors that can be
aimed at the areas that are occupied. Or adding ceiling and floor
temperature sensors to deal with temperature stratification. For
large rooms, it could also shut down the vents in unoccupied areas
while continuing to blow hot or cold air in occupied areas. An HVAC
system that does a better job of calculating and measuring
temperatures would seem to be a better proposition than a $250
electronic thermostat that doesn't do much better at measuring the
temperature than an old bi-metallic mechanical thermostat. Recording
usage history and pattern matching seems like a poor substitute for
more and better sensors.

They exist. I've seen thermostats that have a Bluetooth connected
remote sensor. I thought it was kinda silly, but...
 
On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 11:38:50 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 2:33:39 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

I need a dehumidifier that vents the heat and condensation to the outside.

Isn't that called an air conditioner?

No, an normal air conditioner will lower the temperature in the room
to reduce humidity. He wants to reduce the humidity so he can *raise*
the temperature in the room.
 
On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:32:50 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/4/2019 11:45 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 08:19:25 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Our cabin came with a smart thermostat that guests were always leaving
in weird states. I replaced it with a simple one that has a dial to
set temperature, and one switch for the fan, ON-AUTO. It had another
switch OFF-HEAT-AC but I removed that one, so the heat is always on
and can't be set below 40F.

I sometimes wonder why HVAC thermostats measure air temperature in one
part of the room, instead of using multiple sensors to measure the
average temperature of the room. Or, maybe PIR sensors that can be
aimed at the areas that are occupied. Or adding ceiling and floor
temperature sensors to deal with temperature stratification. For
large rooms, it could also shut down the vents in unoccupied areas
while continuing to blow hot or cold air in occupied areas. An HVAC
system that does a better job of calculating and measuring
temperatures would seem to be a better proposition than a $250
electronic thermostat that doesn't do much better at measuring the
temperature than an old bi-metallic mechanical thermostat. Recording
usage history and pattern matching seems like a poor substitute for
more and better sensors.



I'd like a system that does a better job with lowering humidity.
We installed a new system about 6 to 9 years ago, it did a better job
than our old system, but I feel much more comfortable if I run a
dehumidifier getting the humidity below 40%. I did that for a while,
and I could raise the thermostat 4* and still feel comfortable.
The problem was the dehumidifier created heat and that raised the temp
wherever it sat, so I stopped, and the Kennmore dehumidifier was
recalled because of a fire hazard.

With the appropriate thermostat, the new heat pump we put in this
Winter will dehumidify as well as cool. Basically, it just lowers the
fan RPM to make the coils colder, dropping more water out of the air.
A thermostat with a humidity sensor (and a couple of more wires to the
control board) is need to use the function.

The kids have left so we have both of their bedrooms vents shut and
doors closed.

I was told this was a bad practice because it unbalances the system
and increases the back pressure. I was doing it more to move air to
the family room. The builder screwed up the HVAC big time.

> I need a dehumidifier that vents the heat and condensation to the outside.

Which is the idea of the HVAC mode above.
 
On Tuesday, 4 June 2019 20:13:55 UTC+1, Mike Coon wrote:
In article <g97dfe58f0lghpcme6c66140scrangbthc@4ax.com>,
jeffl@cruzio.com says...

... electronic thermostat that doesn't do much better at measuring the
temperature than an old bi-metallic mechanical thermostat.

Except of course that those "thermostats" usually had an "accelerator"
heater element that made them function more like those "simmerstats"
that used to be used to control the duty cycle of cooker hob elements.
Otherwise the hysteresis is too large to be a useful control element...

Mike.

The anticipator just makes them function like thermostats with small hysteresis, which is exactly what most heating & cooling systems want.

I had an electronic programable room stat. Ripped it out & upgraded to an old bimetal. There's no lack of junk products out there.


NT
 
On Tuesday, 4 June 2019 23:35:08 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:

Dropbox is part of my life now. I can work anywhere without carrying
memory sticks around. My cabin camera and remote heating controls work
by shared Dropbox files. And I post Dropbox file links for other
people to see.

that's usually a pain, delivering a tiny icon sized version of it until one changes the 0 to 1 at the end of the address.


NT
 
On 2019/06/04 6:03 p.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 16:46:41 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com
wrote:

I do like OSX's Time Machine, and I'd be looking for something similar
in Linux as I will be migrating there sooner or later... Perhaps
Cronopete – an Apple Time Machine Clone For Linux?

Cronopete:
http://www.rastersoft.com/programas/cronopete.html
I haven't tried it yet,

Instead of file by file backups, I prefer the much faster image
backup. Besides speed, an image backup doesn't care about open files,
hidden files, invalid filenames, trashed filenames, bad clusters, file
locks, deleted files, and even read errors. You get an exact
duplicate of the drive, including all the errors. When backing up the
raw filesystem, an image backup can run on a live system without
requiring exclusive file access.

"Best Open Source Disk Cloning/Backup Software for Linux Servers"
https://www.tecmint.com/linux-disk-cloning-tools/

Incidentally, for Windoze desktops, I'm partial to Macrium Reflect
(free):
https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree
On recent i7 machines with an SSD I can usually backup at about 7
gigabytes/minute. That's about 9 minutes to backup a typical Windoze
10 drive with 60 GBytes of programs and data.

I prefer the changed file archive method because in most cases what
happens to me is I've deleted or overwritten a file that I need to then
recover. With OSX's Time Machine (TM) I can go back as many days, weeks,
years, as I like to find the original good file and restore it.

As for images, TM does do a drive image and can (and has) reproduced a
failed drive completely up to the last save when the drive croaked. As
it is always updating (every hour or so) the individual backups can be
small, but they are fast and do not consume much resources.

It all depends on what you are using your computer for of course. I am
working on three to five windows and at least half a dozen programs are
open all the time so mirroring would be rather time consuming and would
be hours old, nor could I recover a damaged file easily - I'd have to
have lots of drives and then hunt each drive for the file in question.
TM is simple to use, to the user it looks like a bunch of file folders
stacked one in front of the other (IIIIII....III) and you just flip
through them to find the good one. I'm pretty sure you already knew all
this but in case you did not there it is.

John :-#)#
 
On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 20:43:28 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, 4 June 2019 23:35:08 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:

Dropbox is part of my life now. I can work anywhere without carrying
memory sticks around. My cabin camera and remote heating controls work
by shared Dropbox files. And I post Dropbox file links for other
people to see.

that's usually a pain, delivering a tiny icon sized version of it until one changes the 0 to 1 at the end of the address.


NT

Is this a tiny icon?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mvq9f52bswroqz6/1S2-547.jpg?dl=0

It is a nuisance to edit the link to be

https://www.dropbox.com/s/td5ypave9mp9bz9/Butterfly_ebay_2.JPG?raw=1



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics
 
On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 20:48:34 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, 5 June 2019 00:49:53 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 09:33:03 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:
On 5/6/19 8:34 am, John Larkin wrote:

But for company backup, I take a terabyte USB hard drive home every
couple of months, and stash them in various places. We never write to
the backup drives after they are burned, and very rarely have to read
them.
Make sure you read one regularly, and ensure it has all you think it
does, or you can be sure they will fail when you actually need them.

I have so many that some have to work!

If the software doing the backup goes wrong you can find you have none that are retrievable. Too ,many have fallen into that pothole.

It's just Windows copying folders and files.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics
 
On Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:55:57 UTC+1, George Herold wrote:

This is so depressing. I've got 20+ year old Kenmore washer /dryers.
I've replaced some bits, but if one fails in the future...
someone should start making quality homewares... with parts/ service
that lasts for more than 10 years*. I'd pay twice as much for that.

They did in '08. It was called ISE. The wasing machines were ÂŁ450 & ÂŁ800. They went bankrupt.


George H.
*my tractor is older than me and I can still get parts and service
at the local Massey-Ferguson dealership.
 
On Wednesday, 5 June 2019 00:49:53 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 09:33:03 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:
On 5/6/19 8:34 am, John Larkin wrote:

But for company backup, I take a terabyte USB hard drive home every
couple of months, and stash them in various places. We never write to
the backup drives after they are burned, and very rarely have to read
them.
Make sure you read one regularly, and ensure it has all you think it
does, or you can be sure they will fail when you actually need them.

I have so many that some have to work!

If the software doing the backup goes wrong you can find you have none that are retrievable. Too ,many have fallen into that pothole.

I always refused to use compression with backups as it made the odds of being unable to retrieve data much higher - and now of course the cost of capacity is very low. I remember being very pleased to get a 1G HDD years ago! And one time being wowed by a 70M HDD. Funny how things change.


NT

When I do occasionally read a few to look for a file (because someone
has lunched something) they have always worked.

I store them in ziplox bags in various cool, quiet places.
 
On Wednesday, 5 June 2019 05:19:12 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 20:43:28 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 4 June 2019 23:35:08 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:

Dropbox is part of my life now. I can work anywhere without carrying
memory sticks around. My cabin camera and remote heating controls work
by shared Dropbox files. And I post Dropbox file links for other
people to see.

that's usually a pain, delivering a tiny icon sized version of it until one changes the 0 to 1 at the end of the address.


NT

Is this a tiny icon?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mvq9f52bswroqz6/1S2-547.jpg?dl=0

Yep.

It is a nuisance to edit the link to be

https://www.dropbox.com/s/td5ypave9mp9bz9/Butterfly_ebay_2.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mvq9f52bswroqz6/1S2-547.jpg?dl=1
works


NT
 
On a sunny day (Tue, 04 Jun 2019 16:49:06 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote in
<gk0efe97hioq978m537dmqqripokrurad2@4ax.com>:

On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 09:33:03 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:

On 5/6/19 8:34 am, John Larkin wrote:
But for company backup, I take a terabyte USB hard drive home every
couple of months, and stash them in various places. We never write to
the backup drives after they are burned, and very rarely have to read
them.
Make sure you read one regularly, and ensure it has all you think it
does, or you can be sure they will fail when you actually need them.

I have so many that some have to work!

When I do occasionally read a few to look for a file (because someone
has lunched something) they have always worked.

I store them in ziplox bags in various cool, quiet places.

I store things that I think are important on 4 different kind of media
harddisk (magnetic), FLASH (electrostatic), Bluray (optical), and paper.
All multiple times on optical, a lot goes on those disks.

Everything is always read back and compared after a write to optical.
The optical are stored in total darkness in a controlled climate.

The FLASH is stored in an EMP safe metal box.

Some less important things are stored on my webserver's website encrypted with key 9012jhde32
that I am sure they will keep secret from the rest of the world because I completely trust them.

The problem I have with the dripbox drawings is that it displays the file,
then JUST as you try to read it blanks the screen, then after a second or 2 shows it again.
Maybe my browser..

Concept of cloud sucks.
 
On Wednesday, 5 June 2019 05:15:25 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 20:48:34 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 5 June 2019 00:49:53 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 09:33:03 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:
On 5/6/19 8:34 am, John Larkin wrote:

But for company backup, I take a terabyte USB hard drive home every
couple of months, and stash them in various places. We never write to
the backup drives after they are burned, and very rarely have to read
them.
Make sure you read one regularly, and ensure it has all you think it
does, or you can be sure they will fail when you actually need them.

I have so many that some have to work!

If the software doing the backup goes wrong you can find you have none that are retrievable. Too ,many have fallen into that pothole.

It's just Windows copying folders and files.

Yup. You still have to check them, sht happens easily. I understand you do partial checking. That's most likely enough, but not risk free.


NT
 
On Wednesday, 5 June 2019 06:26:41 UTC+1, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 04 Jun 2019 16:49:06 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote in
gk0efe97hioq978m537dmqqripokrurad2@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 09:33:03 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:
On 5/6/19 8:34 am, John Larkin wrote:

But for company backup, I take a terabyte USB hard drive home every
couple of months, and stash them in various places. We never write to
the backup drives after they are burned, and very rarely have to read
them.
Make sure you read one regularly, and ensure it has all you think it
does, or you can be sure they will fail when you actually need them.

I have so many that some have to work!

When I do occasionally read a few to look for a file (because someone
has lunched something) they have always worked.

I store them in ziplox bags in various cool, quiet places.

I store things that I think are important on 4 different kind of media
harddisk (magnetic), FLASH (electrostatic), Bluray (optical), and paper.
All multiple times on optical, a lot goes on those disks.

Everything is always read back and compared after a write to optical.
The optical are stored in total darkness in a controlled climate.

The FLASH is stored in an EMP safe metal box.

Some less important things are stored on my webserver's website encrypted with key 9012jhde32
that I am sure they will keep secret from the rest of the world because I completely trust them.

The problem I have with the dripbox drawings is that it displays the file,
then JUST as you try to read it blanks the screen, then after a second or 2 shows it again.
Maybe my browser..

Concept of cloud sucks.

I found optical discs too unreliable.

Paper has hopeless data density, but far outlasts all the others. Updating versions on it is a bear too. Read speed is abysmal. Encryption is unworkable. Usable file formats are limited. And...

Cloud access gets cut off on a whim. The only time I used it to keep backup data they announced they were going to start charging. I tried every way to pay but none worked, and I lost access. They never sorted it. I think the company went under.


NT
 
On a sunny day (Tue, 4 Jun 2019 22:56:45 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote in
<a396789b-e5a3-45d6-af2a-1d88f0ff212a@googlegroups.com>:

>I found optical discs too unreliable.

I am not so sure,
I have now lemme see:
996 <- disc number
Mon Feb 18 18:47:05 CET 2019 <- burn date
BD-R25GB <- type
Mediarange 4x inkjet printable <- make
LG BH10LS38 <- burner

996 discs in the dark storage.

The first one is from around year 2000 (did not date those in those days but filesystem and data on those is dated).
I use Linux ext2 on blu-ray so I can do something like this:
Create a large 25 GB empty file named 'bluray.iso':
dd if=/dev/zero bs=1000000000 count=25 > bluray.iso
Make an ext2 filesystem on that file:
mke2fs bluray.iso
Mount it:
mount -o loop=/dev/loop0 bluray.iso /mnt/loop

Copy whatever I want to save to that directory:
cp ... /mnt/loop/

Stay below about 23 GB usage, this shows usage:
du /mnt/loop

Unmount he created image:
umount /dev/loop0

Burn to DVD-R (or DVD-RW)
growisofs -speed=4 -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd=bluray.iso

Verify burn byte for byte:
dvdimagecmp -a bluray.iso -b /dev/dvd
I wrote dvdimagecmp, it is on my site, unlike diff it shows progress and read speed, and where and what the errors are if any.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/dvd/dvdimagecmp-0.3.tgz

To use the disc, simply mount it:
mount -o loop=/dev/loop0 bluray.iso /mnt/loop
and go to that directory:
cd /mnt/loop
list:
ls -rtl


Sometimes in case of long binaries like movies I just burn the whole thing directly as image.
Or sometimes I just tar and gzip a whole directory tree or even a whole partition to a .tgz and burn that to a disc:
tar -zxvf /dev/dvd will get it back

Important is documentation, after using some database for a while
I changed to one large text file that you can search with 'grep' for anything, or just search in the text editor.
Much faster and no database crap.
All movies are marked as 'amovie' in the text so
cat dvd-list.txt | grep amovie > movies.txt
# l movies.txt
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 20587 Jun 5 10:14 movies.txt
Use text editor:
278 entries.

Not bad. never have time to watch any,. have seen those anyways...

text files are great, disc 994
994
Fri Nov 23 12:19:43 CET 2018
DVD+R
verbatim inkjet-printable
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 672137216 Nov 10 13:20 debian-9.6.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso
MD5sum 682ad1554a2c3ddd772bc580d1272e7f debian-9.6.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso
growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd=debian-9.6.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso
dvdimagecmp -a /dev/dvd -b debian-9.6.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso






The now about 19 year old discs all still play fine, because those are in a alu dark box in a dry living room,
with controlled temperature.

The same discs fail if you keep those for a few days in the usual plastic boxes on the bookshelf where occasionally
the sun, or at evening the room lighting works on those.

It is very much like film exposure,
for those who used 35 mm cameras etc, exposure time * light intensity is what counts.
Without light the image on the disc will not change a lot over time.
Open the box in tempered light if you need a disc,
Moisture will kill those discs too as then mold forms in the disc,
I have seen that, even had to return new ones that had spots in those.





>Paper has hopeless data density, but far outlasts all the others. Updating versions on it is a bear too.

Na, my drawings just use eraser and modify :)
I take a picture of the old version (have a scanner but no longer working drivers for it).

Read speed is abysmal.
Encryption is unworkable. Usable file formats are limited. And...

Leonardo used to write from right to left, or so I have read,
to keep his ideas from being read (and him being executed by the church likely).
At least some people cannot read my drawings so I am safe :)


Cloud access gets cut off on a whim. The only time I used it to keep backup data they announced they were going to start
charging. I tried every way to pay but none worked, and I lost access. They never sorted it. I think the company went under.

Indeed cloud is a joke.
Sometimes no access, no security.
 
Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:qd7u60$p7o$1@dont-email.me:

On a sunny day (Tue, 4 Jun 2019 22:56:45 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote in
a396789b-e5a3-45d6-af2a-1d88f0ff212a@googlegroups.com>:

I found optical discs too unreliable.

I am not so sure,
I have now lemme see:
996 <- disc number
Mon Feb 18 18:47:05 CET 2019 <- burn date
BD-R25GB <- type
Mediarange 4x inkjet printable <- make
LG BH10LS38 <- burner

996 discs in the dark storage.

The first one is from around year 2000 (did not date those in
those days but filesystem and data on those is dated). I use Linux
ext2 on blu-ray so I can do something like this: Create a large 25
GB empty file named 'bluray.iso':
dd if=/dev/zero bs=1000000000 count=25 > bluray.iso
Make an ext2 filesystem on that file:
mke2fs bluray.iso
Mount it:
mount -o loop=/dev/loop0 bluray.iso /mnt/loop

Copy whatever I want to save to that directory:
cp ... /mnt/loop/

Stay below about 23 GB usage, this shows usage:
du /mnt/loop

Unmount he created image:
umount /dev/loop0

Burn to DVD-R (or DVD-RW)
growisofs -speed=4 -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd=bluray.iso

Verify burn byte for byte:
dvdimagecmp -a bluray.iso -b /dev/dvd
I wrote dvdimagecmp, it is on my site, unlike diff it shows
progress and read speed, and where and what the errors are if
any.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/dvd/dvdimagecmp-0.3.tgz

To use the disc, simply mount it:
mount -o loop=/dev/loop0 bluray.iso /mnt/loop
and go to that directory:
cd /mnt/loop
list:
ls -rtl


Sometimes in case of long binaries like movies I just burn the
whole thing directly as image. Or sometimes I just tar and gzip a
whole directory tree or even a whole partition to a .tgz and burn
that to a disc:
tar -zxvf /dev/dvd will get it back

Important is documentation, after using some database for a while
I changed to one large text file that you can search with 'grep'
for anything, or just search in the text editor. Much faster and
no database crap. All movies are marked as 'amovie' in the text so
cat dvd-list.txt | grep amovie > movies.txt
# l movies.txt
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 20587 Jun 5 10:14 movies.txt
Use text editor:
278 entries.

Not bad. never have time to watch any,. have seen those anyways...

text files are great, disc 994
994
Fri Nov 23 12:19:43 CET 2018
DVD+R
verbatim inkjet-printable
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 672137216 Nov 10 13:20
debian-9.6.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso MD5sum
682ad1554a2c3ddd772bc580d1272e7f debian-9.6.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso
growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd=debian-9.6.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso
dvdimagecmp -a /dev/dvd -b debian-9.6.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso






The now about 19 year old discs all still play fine, because those
are in a alu dark box in a dry living room, with controlled
temperature.

The same discs fail if you keep those for a few days in the usual
plastic boxes on the bookshelf where occasionally the sun, or at
evening the room lighting works on those.

It is very much like film exposure,
for those who used 35 mm cameras etc, exposure time * light
intensity is what counts. Without light the image on the disc will
not change a lot over time. Open the box in tempered light if you
need a disc, Moisture will kill those discs too as then mold forms
in the disc, I have seen that, even had to return new ones that
had spots in those.





Paper has hopeless data density, but far outlasts all the others.
Updating versions on it is a bear too.

Na, my drawings just use eraser and modify :)
I take a picture of the old version (have a scanner but no longer
working drivers for it).

Read speed is abysmal.
Encryption is unworkable. Usable file formats are limited. And...

Leonardo used to write from right to left, or so I have read,
to keep his ideas from being read (and him being executed by the
church likely). At least some people cannot read my drawings so I
am safe :)


Cloud access gets cut off on a whim. The only time I used it to
keep backup data they announced they were going to start charging.
I tried every way to pay but none worked, and I lost access. They
never sorted it. I think the company went under.

Indeed cloud is a joke.
Sometimes no access, no security.

Much better choice is to simply buy 2.5 inch hard drives for
archiving.

Optical discs are lame because they have a small size and
'burned' discs are NOT 'burned'. A plastic layer is impinged upon
by the laser, and those written locations can relax.

450 movies fit in my shirt pocket in high resolution perfection.

My laser disc and DVD and CD collection took up an entire
bedroom's walls. hundreds of discs.

Cloud sucks because places get hacked. YOUR data, and your info
is at risk at some point.

But if you insist on optical storage as an archival choice, then
you should have moved to DVD-RAM. Far more reliable, far less error
prone after years of storage.
 

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