locked out

[Tom Gardner]

On 04/06/19 01:34, amdx wrote:

 Good luck, I'm not sure simple is available.
I feel the same about a microwave, give me a mechanical timer over
a keypad and several extra buttons.

On a microwave I want a keypad and two buttons.
One button+keypad allows me to set the power
in 10% steps, the other allows me to set the
time in 1s steps.

Obviously I wouldn't bother with 5m17s, but I
do like to be able to set 5s, 10s, 15s accurately,
and I can't do that with a knob.

I don't want lots of unintelligible ideograms
(idiotgrams?) selecting different cooking profiles.

OTOH, on a previous microwave one column of keys
stopped working, but it was adequate to set 1m30s
by entering 90, or 1m by entering 60.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 4/6/19 4:33 pm, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

Clifford Heath wrote:
On 4/6/19 2:38 am, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 11:22:59 -0500, Joe Chisolm
jchisolm6@earthlink.net> wrote:
Amazon stuff is real touchy about net access.  They assume always on
completely reliable net connection.

Once we design a product with a uP and an FPGA, it's tempting to keep
adding features, the theory being that every feature might get us some
additional sales. So we have to keep remembering that the basic
functions have to be easy to understand and evoke.
A dishwasher needs two buttons, WASH and STOP.

Yes, THIS! Every button you add make the other ones less useful, less
findable, more cognitive load. It doesn't matter what text you put
behind them or how good the designer of your icon graphics is, you are
presenting people with a choice of actions, and they can't choose an
action until they've understood what the alternative actions are.

This "need to know" is reduced in children, who just push things and
observe outcomes, which is why older adults often need to get a child
to help with technology like remote controls, etc.

Clifford Heath.

Maybe we should let children pilot the 737-MAX.

Hehe. In between "I don't know how to make my machine do X", and "OMG
you kids have utterly fouled this thing up!" there is hopefully a safe
and useful way to operate most machines... though with the 737-Max way
has some very narrow parts!

Learnability and predictability are not the same thing!

 

[mpm]

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 12:38:31 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 17:10:15 -0700 (PDT), mpm
wrote:

I would call it "junk" also, but that would be totally unfair to actual junk.
I can promise you this: I WILL NEVER -- NEVER -- NEVER BUY ANYTHING WHIRLPOOL AGAIN.

Don't forget to also blacklist Maytag, KitchenAid, Jenn-Air, Amana,
Gladiator GarageWorks, Inglis, Estate, Brastemp, Bauknecht, Ignis,
Indesit, Consul, and possibly Hotpoint, Diqua, Affresh, Acros, and
Yummly, all of which are owned by Whirlpool Corp:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whirlpool_Corporation#Major_brands


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

That explains it!

 

[John Robertson]

On 2019/06/04 9:45 a.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 08:19:25 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Our cabin came with a smart thermostat that guests were always leaving
in weird states. I replaced it with a simple one that has a dial to
set temperature, and one switch for the fan, ON-AUTO. It had another
switch OFF-HEAT-AC but I removed that one, so the heat is always on
and can't be set below 40F.

I sometimes wonder why HVAC thermostats measure air temperature in one
part of the room, instead of using multiple sensors to measure the
average temperature of the room. Or, maybe PIR sensors that can be
aimed at the areas that are occupied. Or adding ceiling and floor
temperature sensors to deal with temperature stratification. For
large rooms, it could also shut down the vents in unoccupied areas
while continuing to blow hot or cold air in occupied areas. An HVAC
system that does a better job of calculating and measuring
temperatures would seem to be a better proposition than a $250
electronic thermostat that doesn't do much better at measuring the
temperature than an old bi-metallic mechanical thermostat. Recording
usage history and pattern matching seems like a poor substitute for
more and better sensors.

Just more things to break down and troubleshoot. KISS, eh?

People can put a fleecy on if too cool or shirtsleeves if warm...

Been outdoors lately? The weather isn't very well regulated or
consistent in either the short or long term. (ducking) The point being
that we evolved in changing weather/climate and it is better for us to
be exposed to changes rather than treating humans like rare documents
that need a fixed environment.

John :-#)#

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 08:19:25 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Our cabin came with a smart thermostat that guests were always leaving
in weird states. I replaced it with a simple one that has a dial to
set temperature, and one switch for the fan, ON-AUTO. It had another
switch OFF-HEAT-AC but I removed that one, so the heat is always on
and can't be set below 40F.

I sometimes wonder why HVAC thermostats measure air temperature in one
part of the room, instead of using multiple sensors to measure the
average temperature of the room. Or, maybe PIR sensors that can be
aimed at the areas that are occupied. Or adding ceiling and floor
temperature sensors to deal with temperature stratification. For
large rooms, it could also shut down the vents in unoccupied areas
while continuing to blow hot or cold air in occupied areas. An HVAC
system that does a better job of calculating and measuring
temperatures would seem to be a better proposition than a $250
electronic thermostat that doesn't do much better at measuring the
temperature than an old bi-metallic mechanical thermostat. Recording
usage history and pattern matching seems like a poor substitute for
more and better sensors.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 12:45:45 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 08:19:25 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Our cabin came with a smart thermostat that guests were always leaving
in weird states. I replaced it with a simple one that has a dial to
set temperature, and one switch for the fan, ON-AUTO. It had another
switch OFF-HEAT-AC but I removed that one, so the heat is always on
and can't be set below 40F.

I sometimes wonder why HVAC thermostats measure air temperature in one
part of the room, instead of using multiple sensors to measure the
average temperature of the room. Or, maybe PIR sensors that can be
aimed at the areas that are occupied. Or adding ceiling and floor
temperature sensors to deal with temperature stratification. For
large rooms, it could also shut down the vents in unoccupied areas
while continuing to blow hot or cold air in occupied areas. An HVAC
system that does a better job of calculating and measuring
temperatures would seem to be a better proposition than a $250
electronic thermostat that doesn't do much better at measuring the
temperature than an old bi-metallic mechanical thermostat. Recording
usage history and pattern matching seems like a poor substitute for
more and better sensors.

Thermostats measure a single point in the room because the actual number is not important. What is important is maintaining a given setting. If different parts of the room are hotter or colder, they are likely consistently hotter or colder so the average would be some relatively fixed offset from most points in the room. Better would be to measure different rooms and control dampers to allow more or less air to different rooms.

The only significant temperature difference in my house is the specific spots the sun shines on at a given time of day or between rooms. I have one corner room with two windows which means it has to vents. Since the room is small the two vents are a bit more than is required. So it is hotter than the rest of the house when heating and cooler than the rest of the house when cooling. I take advantage of that by spending most of my time in that room and keeping the thermostat set to use less heating or cooling than otherwise.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[amdx]

On 6/4/2019 11:45 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 08:19:25 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Our cabin came with a smart thermostat that guests were always leaving
in weird states. I replaced it with a simple one that has a dial to
set temperature, and one switch for the fan, ON-AUTO. It had another
switch OFF-HEAT-AC but I removed that one, so the heat is always on
and can't be set below 40F.

I sometimes wonder why HVAC thermostats measure air temperature in one
part of the room, instead of using multiple sensors to measure the
average temperature of the room. Or, maybe PIR sensors that can be
aimed at the areas that are occupied. Or adding ceiling and floor
temperature sensors to deal with temperature stratification. For
large rooms, it could also shut down the vents in unoccupied areas
while continuing to blow hot or cold air in occupied areas. An HVAC
system that does a better job of calculating and measuring
temperatures would seem to be a better proposition than a $250
electronic thermostat that doesn't do much better at measuring the
temperature than an old bi-metallic mechanical thermostat. Recording
usage history and pattern matching seems like a poor substitute for
more and better sensors.

I'd like a system that does a better job with lowering humidity.
We installed a new system about 6 to 9 years ago, it did a better job
than our old system, but I feel much more comfortable if I run a
dehumidifier getting the humidity below 40%. I did that for a while,
and I could raise the thermostat 4* and still feel comfortable.
The problem was the dehumidifier created heat and that raised the temp
wherever it sat, so I stopped, and the Kennmore dehumidifier was
recalled because of a fire hazard.
The kids have left so we have both of their bedrooms vents shut and
doors closed.
I need a dehumidifier that vents the heat and condensation to the outside.
Mikek

 

[amdx]

On 6/4/2019 11:45 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 08:19:25 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Our cabin came with a smart thermostat that guests were always leaving
in weird states. I replaced it with a simple one that has a dial to
set temperature, and one switch for the fan, ON-AUTO. It had another
switch OFF-HEAT-AC but I removed that one, so the heat is always on
and can't be set below 40F.

I sometimes wonder why HVAC thermostats measure air temperature in one
part of the room, instead of using multiple sensors to measure the
average temperature of the room. Or, maybe PIR sensors that can be
aimed at the areas that are occupied. Or adding ceiling and floor
temperature sensors to deal with temperature stratification. For
large rooms, it could also shut down the vents in unoccupied areas
while continuing to blow hot or cold air in occupied areas. An HVAC
system that does a better job of calculating and measuring
temperatures would seem to be a better proposition than a $250
electronic thermostat that doesn't do much better at measuring the
temperature than an old bi-metallic mechanical thermostat. Recording
usage history and pattern matching seems like a poor substitute for
more and better sensors.

I'd like a system that does a better job with lowering humidity.
We installed a new system about 6 to 9 years ago, it did a better job
than our old system, but I feel much more comfortable if I run a
dehumidifier getting the humidity below 40%. I did that for a while,
and I could raise the thermostat 4* and still feel comfortable.
The problem was the dehumidifier created heat and that raised the temp
wherever it sat, so I stopped, and the Kennmore dehumidifier was
recalled because of a fire hazard.
The kids have left so we have both of their bedrooms vents shut and
doors closed.
I need a dehumidifier that vents the heat and condensation to the outside.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 08:19:25 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

I bet Google knows when you come and go

No it doesn't.

knows what temperature you
like,

Nope.

> knows what food you order,

Nope.

> knows where you go,

Nope.

> knows what you buy,

Nope.

> reads your email

Nope.

>puts all that info together.

Nope.
If Google knows all that about you, and you haven't given them express
permission, you're doing something very wrong indeed. Extreme
carelessness I would guess.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 2:33:39 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

I need a dehumidifier that vents the heat and condensation to the outside.

Isn't that called an air conditioner?

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Kevin Aylward]

"John Larkin" wrote in message
news:ctdafeldu2goput1hop6kvns23fsla3bth@4ax.com...

https://www.fastcompany.com/90358396/that-major-google-outage-meant-some-nest-users-couldnt-unlock-doors-or-use-the-ac

The key lock on my house has been reliable for 25 years. Ditto my
thermostat. Why would anyone spend $270 for a lock that won't let you
in?

Our cabin came with a smart thermostat that guests were always leaving
in weird states. I replaced it with a simple one that has a dial to
set temperature, and one switch for the fan, ON-AUTO. It had another
switch OFF-HEAT-AC but I removed that one, so the heat is always on
and can't be set below 40F.

Seems like some people have enough "smart" gadgets that they can't do
anything without their phone.

I bet Google knows when you come and go, knows what temperature you
like, knows what food you order, knows where you go, knows what you
buy, reads your email, puts all that info together.

The whole concept of the Cloud is fundamentally flawed. I am totally stunned
that anyone can trust *their* data with someone's *else* system. Just can't
get to grips as to how anyone, especially businesses, get sucked into such a
ludicrous system.

I never, and never will, use any cloud service. Indeed, a new iPhone does
its best to automatically send your $hit to its Cloud. You have to work to
disable it.

My offsite backup is my brothers house and hard drives...


-- Kevin Aylward
http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html

 

[Mike Coon]

In article <g97dfe58f0lghpcme6c66140scrangbthc@4ax.com>,
jeffl@cruzio.com says...

... electronic thermostat that doesn't do much better at measuring the
temperature than an old bi-metallic mechanical thermostat.

Except of course that those "thermostats" usually had an "accelerator"
heater element that made them function more like those "simmerstats"
that used to be used to control the duty cycle of cooker hob elements.
Otherwise the hysteresis is too large to be a useful control element...

Mike.

 

[Jon Elson]

On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 17:51:04 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 17:10:15 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com
wrote:

I can promise you this: I WILL NEVER -- NEVER -- NEVER BUY ANYTHING
WHIRLPOOL AGAIN.

One of my daughters is living with a roommate, and she bought a Samsung
washing machine. It worked fine for a year, then started getting out of
balance faults. They got me to buy a MEMS accelerometer for it, but that
didn't fix the problem. I'm not sure what is wrong with it.

I know our Kenmore washer has a balance ring that is partly filled with
water, and the water somehow sloshes to the right spot to achieve partial
balance of unbalanced loads. It also appear to have some really tricky
software that finds out where the first critical speed is and then uses a
lot of motor current to punch through that critical speed (where the
imbalance causes the maximum deflection). Once above the critical speed,
the vibration is not too bad.

It seems the Samsung may not have this software, or maybe the water
leaked out of a balance ring (or no dynamic balancing feature), or there
is some kind of friction damper that has worn out. Anyway, what look to
be mildly off-balance loads cause the basket to wham against the side of
the machine. I did all I could figure out on it, they are going to try
to wrap an old blanket around the basket and see if that will damp the
vibration. It appears from internet searches that this is a guaranteed
development on these washers! Also, there's nobody within 80 miles that
is even willing to come work on it. Apparently, they all know the Samsung
will just be huge trouble and they won't be able to fix it.

Wow, and I thought the Whirlpool (name your brand here) stuff had
mediocre engineering!

Jon

 

[Joe Chisolm]

On Tue, 04 Jun 2019 09:45:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 08:19:25 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Our cabin came with a smart thermostat that guests were always leaving
in weird states. I replaced it with a simple one that has a dial to set
temperature, and one switch for the fan, ON-AUTO. It had another switch
OFF-HEAT-AC but I removed that one, so the heat is always on and can't
be set below 40F.

I sometimes wonder why HVAC thermostats measure air temperature in one
part of the room, instead of using multiple sensors to measure the
average temperature of the room. Or, maybe PIR sensors that can be
aimed at the areas that are occupied. Or adding ceiling and floor
temperature sensors to deal with temperature stratification. For large
rooms, it could also shut down the vents in unoccupied areas while
continuing to blow hot or cold air in occupied areas. An HVAC system
that does a better job of calculating and measuring temperatures would
seem to be a better proposition than a $250 electronic thermostat that
doesn't do much better at measuring the temperature than an old
bi-metallic mechanical thermostat. Recording usage history and pattern
matching seems like a poor substitute for more and better sensors.

I like the idea of the variable refrigerant flow mini-splits. This
builder in the Austin area is a sticker for energy efficient tight
houses. But he's also building mega-buck houses.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFCTrfb1JUJjs3Im8OZDtBw

Has some good videos though. The mini-splits have really
come down in price.

--
Chisolm
Republic of Texas

 

[amdx]

On 6/4/2019 1:38 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 2:33:39 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

I need a dehumidifier that vents the heat and condensation to the outside.

Isn't that called an air conditioner?

Well sure, but I would like it to do a better job of reducing humidity.
I made sure I didn't over size the air conditioner, so it would run
more to remove more water, but I want MORE!

Mikek

 

[Jon Elson]

On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 17:10:15 -0700, mpm wrote:

For me, it's our crap Whirlpool piece of shit refrigerator.
I fucking hate it! (And I don't normally say "fuck" in open forums!)

If you EVER think about buying one of these... RUN !!

I would call it "junk" also, but that would be totally unfair to actual
junk.
I can promise you this: I WILL NEVER -- NEVER -- NEVER BUY ANYTHING
WHIRLPOOL AGAIN.

Um, the problem is there is basically only ONE "American" brand.
Whirlpool, GE, Kenmore, Maytag and about 5 other major brands are all
made in the same factory, and they slap the brand label of choice on it.

In my case, it is a Kenmore washing machine. I've had to make a number
of repairs on it (main bearing/seal twice, 2 drain pumps) and a retrofit
on the control board.
They use really cheap relays to turn on the various water valves, and
there are no snubbers. The solenoid coils, of course, cause sparking of
the contacts, which burns the relays, and then it won't fill. I replaced
the most-used relay with an SSR, but it is too big to fit, so I can't do
this on ALL the relays. Sometime, I'll replace all the relays and
install R-C snubbers to try to make the relays last longer.

The service people would have replaced the $260 computer module about 8
times already if I wasn't doing this maintenance.

Jon

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 20:33:50 +0100, "Kevin Aylward"
<kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote:

"John Larkin" wrote in message
news:ctdafeldu2goput1hop6kvns23fsla3bth@4ax.com...


https://www.fastcompany.com/90358396/that-major-google-outage-meant-some-nest-users-couldnt-unlock-doors-or-use-the-ac

The key lock on my house has been reliable for 25 years. Ditto my
thermostat. Why would anyone spend $270 for a lock that won't let you
in?

Our cabin came with a smart thermostat that guests were always leaving
in weird states. I replaced it with a simple one that has a dial to
set temperature, and one switch for the fan, ON-AUTO. It had another
switch OFF-HEAT-AC but I removed that one, so the heat is always on
and can't be set below 40F.

Seems like some people have enough "smart" gadgets that they can't do
anything without their phone.

I bet Google knows when you come and go, knows what temperature you
like, knows what food you order, knows where you go, knows what you
buy, reads your email, puts all that info together.

The whole concept of the Cloud is fundamentally flawed. I am totally stunned
that anyone can trust *their* data with someone's *else* system. Just can't
get to grips as to how anyone, especially businesses, get sucked into such a
ludicrous system.

I never, and never will, use any cloud service. Indeed, a new iPhone does
its best to automatically send your $hit to its Cloud. You have to work to
disable it.

My offsite backup is my brothers house and hard drives...


-- Kevin Aylward
http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html

Dropbox is part of my life now. I can work anywhere without carrying
memory sticks around. My cabin camera and remote heating controls work
by shared Dropbox files. And I post Dropbox file links for other
people to see.

Worth a small risk.

But for company backup, I take a terabyte USB hard drive home every
couple of months, and stash them in various places. We never write to
the backup drives after they are burned, and very rarely have to read
them.

Our local backups are rolling, which means that they eventually get
written over.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 5/6/19 8:34 am, John Larkin wrote:

But for company backup, I take a terabyte USB hard drive home every
couple of months, and stash them in various places. We never write to
the backup drives after they are burned, and very rarely have to read
them.

Make sure you read one regularly, and ensure it has all you think it
does, or you can be sure they will fail when you actually need them.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 09:33:03 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
wrote:

On 5/6/19 8:34 am, John Larkin wrote:
But for company backup, I take a terabyte USB hard drive home every
couple of months, and stash them in various places. We never write to
the backup drives after they are burned, and very rarely have to read
them.
Make sure you read one regularly, and ensure it has all you think it
does, or you can be sure they will fail when you actually need them.

I have so many that some have to work!

When I do occasionally read a few to look for a file (because someone
has lunched something) they have always worked.

I store them in ziplox bags in various cool, quiet places.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[John Robertson]

On 2019/06/04 4:33 p.m., Clifford Heath wrote:

On 5/6/19 8:34 am, John Larkin wrote:
But for company backup, I take a terabyte USB hard drive home every
couple of months, and stash them in various places. We never write to
the backup drives after they are burned, and very rarely have to read
them.
Make sure you read one regularly, and ensure it has all you think it
does, or you can be sure they will fail when you actually need them.

I have two 4TB drives, one at work and one at home - my laptop is dual
backed up depending on where I am using it. I HATE to lose data!

I do like OSX's Time Machine, and I'd be looking for something similar
in Linux as I will be migrating there sooner or later... Perhaps
Cronopete – an Apple Time Machine Clone For Linux?

John :-#)#