Lithium batteries, not worth it...

[T]

On 4/15/23 07:01, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> Until they start taxing it through the roof like alcohol and tobacco and petrol.

Tax it too much and the black market returns.

Where did I hear most of the cigarettes in the UK
are black market? I could be wrong.

 

[T]

On 4/15/23 09:09, Bob F wrote:

On 4/15/2023 8:34 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> writes:
On 4/14/2023 6:14 PM, T wrote:

lithium batteries are just a passing phase of technology.

The future will be either graphene, aluminum or silicone anode.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/01/04/1066141/whats-next-for-batteries/
This year could be a breakout year for one alternative: lithium iron
phosphate (LFP), a low-cost cathode material sometimes used for
lithium-ion batteries.

Yes, there are a lot of technologies being looked into.  Something
like sodium would be much cheaper and not have the flammability
concerns even though only slightly heavier.

Natural gas fuel cells come to mind.

Also, gasoline engines continue to become
more efficient and less polluting.

Yes, been many advances.    Fact is, not in our lifetime, but in the
future, oil will run out.

Maybe not in your lifetime, but certainly in the lifetime of your
children.   And it will _never_ \'run out\', but it will become very
expensive (more than it\'s worth as a fuel) to extract the remaining
amounts.

That\'s the energy trap - since it takes energy to make energy
(see EROI - Energy returned on Energy Invested), there comes a
point where you don\'t have enough energy to develop the next
source.

Discussed here: https://escholarship.org/uc/item/9js5291m

A very accessible introduction to the physics of energy
(for an educated layman) and the difficulties in maintaining
the historic exponential growth in energy production/consumption.



It will get expensive as it get harder to
find and process.

indeed.

If we get even near using it up, that may be the least of our problems.
We will be living in a hell hole.

Alarmist bull s***

 

[Ed P]

On 4/15/2023 8:13 PM, T wrote:

On 4/15/23 06:51, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Every time one of those morons says greenhouse gases, say plant air
supply.

These \"alarmists\" act like the CO2 that goes into the atmosphere stays
there.  Plants create sugars from it.
Our entire food supply is dependent on CO2.  And
if for some strange reason CO2 drops too far in our
atmosphere, plants start dying and every living
thing on this planet is in a heap of trouble.

So ya, \"plant air supply\", \"plant food supply\",
\"Everything else\'s food supply\".  CO2 is part of
cycle of life.

So? There is a limit to how much they can process. Balance. You need
balance. Do you have actual numbers of how much is produced and how
much is absorbed?

You body needs water. Too much though, will kill you.

It just occurred to me that most of there
\"Alarmists\" as \"vegetarians\" and do not realize
the above.  This is what you get when you don\'t
think for yourself and rely on political offices
for your narratives.

It occurred to me some time back you try to apply a simple theory but
have no supporting evidence. The balance of CO2 has changed.

The current global average concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is 421
ppm as of May 2022. This is an increase of 50% since the start of the
Industrial Revolution, up from 280 ppm during the 10,000 years prior to
the mid-18th century. The increase is due to human activity.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 20:40:52 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

On 4/15/2023 8:13 PM, T wrote:
On 4/15/23 06:51, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Every time one of those morons says greenhouse gases, say plant air
supply.

These \"alarmists\" act like the CO2 that goes into the atmosphere stays
there.  Plants create sugars from it.
Our entire food supply is dependent on CO2.  And
if for some strange reason CO2 drops too far in our
atmosphere, plants start dying and every living
thing on this planet is in a heap of trouble.

So ya, \"plant air supply\", \"plant food supply\",
\"Everything else\'s food supply\".  CO2 is part of
cycle of life.

So? There is a limit to how much they can process. Balance. You need
balance. Do you have actual numbers of how much is produced and how
much is absorbed?

You body needs water. Too much though, will kill you.

It just occurred to me that most of there
\"Alarmists\" as \"vegetarians\" and do not realize
the above.  This is what you get when you don\'t
think for yourself and rely on political offices
for your narratives.


It occurred to me some time back you try to apply a simple theory but
have no supporting evidence. The balance of CO2 has changed.

The current global average concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is 421
ppm as of May 2022. This is an increase of 50% since the start of the
Industrial Revolution, up from 280 ppm during the 10,000 years prior to
the mid-18th century. The increase is due to human activity.

CO2 was about 1600 PPM 50 million years ago, and around 5000 PPM 500
million years ago. The great explosions of plant and animal life
happened at high CO2 levels; no coincidence.

During the cambrian explosion it was around 4000.

Last few million years, so much CO2 was sequestered that plants were
about to starve to death. Good thing we\'re fixing that. 1000 PPM would
be nice.

 

[rbowman]

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 12:12:25 -0400, Frank wrote:

Problem with pure hydrogen is that you cannot carry a lot of it around
and need high pressure storage tanks. Nobel prize winning chemist,
George Olah, thought methanol would be the best renewable fuel to use.

Methanol and hydrazine with a dash of nitro would work...

 

[T]

On 4/15/23 17:40, Ed P wrote:

On 4/15/2023 8:13 PM, T wrote:
On 4/15/23 06:51, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Every time one of those morons says greenhouse gases, say plant air
supply.

These \"alarmists\" act like the CO2 that goes into the atmosphere stays
there.  Plants create sugars from it.
Our entire food supply is dependent on CO2.  And
if for some strange reason CO2 drops too far in our
atmosphere, plants start dying and every living
thing on this planet is in a heap of trouble.

So ya, \"plant air supply\", \"plant food supply\",
\"Everything else\'s food supply\".  CO2 is part of
cycle of life.

So?  There is a limit to how much they can process.  Balance.  You need
balance.  Do you have actual numbers of how much is produced and how
much is absorbed?

You body needs water.  Too much though, will kill you.

It just occurred to me that most of there
\"Alarmists\" as \"vegetarians\" and do not realize
the above.  This is what you get when you don\'t
think for yourself and rely on political offices
for your narratives.


It occurred to me some time back you try to apply a simple theory but
have no supporting evidence.  The balance of CO2 has changed.

The current global average concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is 421
ppm as of May 2022. This is an increase of 50% since the start of the
Industrial Revolution, up from 280 ppm during the 10,000 years prior to
the mid-18th century. The increase is due to human activity.

And yet none of the Alarmists predictions have happened.
The lie and fudge numbers. They cancel out colleagues
that to have another opinion, ruining their livelihood
and lives. They refuse to debate. They use religious
terms like \"deniers\" in place of science. It is complete
and utter bull s***.

1) what is the percent of CO2 in the atmosphere?

2) what percent of that is human caused?

CO2 is recycled into sugars by plants. It is part
of the cycle of life. More CO2, more plants,
more sugars, more food for every other living thing
on the planet (except extremophiles on volcanic vents).

Oh, bet American Pravda did not tell you that
food production is at a record high! They
would not as the narrative is the opposite.

Lysenko lives !!!!

 

[rbowman]

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 10:40:16 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

Yup, there was also a PCB-mountable tiny methanol-powered turbine
generator. Fun idea. Bankrupt of course.

https://www.enginediy.com/collections/stirling-engine-diy-kit/products/
stirling-engine-generator-model-diy-assembly-kit-physical-experiment

https://tinyurl.com/yc58t5nz

It puts out enough to light a multi-color LED. I think it runs on
methanol, maybe denatured ethanol; whatever I bought the last time around
for my Mini Trangia stove.

 

[T]

On 4/15/23 19:44, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 20:40:52 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

On 4/15/2023 8:13 PM, T wrote:
On 4/15/23 06:51, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Every time one of those morons says greenhouse gases, say plant air
supply.

These \"alarmists\" act like the CO2 that goes into the atmosphere stays
there.  Plants create sugars from it.
Our entire food supply is dependent on CO2.  And
if for some strange reason CO2 drops too far in our
atmosphere, plants start dying and every living
thing on this planet is in a heap of trouble.

So ya, \"plant air supply\", \"plant food supply\",
\"Everything else\'s food supply\".  CO2 is part of
cycle of life.

So? There is a limit to how much they can process. Balance. You need
balance. Do you have actual numbers of how much is produced and how
much is absorbed?

You body needs water. Too much though, will kill you.

It just occurred to me that most of there
\"Alarmists\" as \"vegetarians\" and do not realize
the above.  This is what you get when you don\'t
think for yourself and rely on political offices
for your narratives.


It occurred to me some time back you try to apply a simple theory but
have no supporting evidence. The balance of CO2 has changed.

The current global average concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is 421
ppm as of May 2022. This is an increase of 50% since the start of the
Industrial Revolution, up from 280 ppm during the 10,000 years prior to
the mid-18th century. The increase is due to human activity.

CO2 was about 1600 PPM 50 million years ago, and around 5000 PPM 500
million years ago. The great explosions of plant and animal life
happened at high CO2 levels; no coincidence.

During the cambrian explosion it was around 4000.

Last few million years, so much CO2 was sequestered that plants were
about to starve to death. Good thing we\'re fixing that. 1000 PPM would
be nice.

And ice core samples definitive show that the
planets heated up BEFORE CO2 levels rose.

CO2 is part of the cycle of life. And it
is a tiny fraction of the atmosphere. Human
addition of CO2 are a tiny, tiny fraction
of that.

On the other hand, the HOLY MOTHER of green
house gasses is water vapor. By the Left has
not figure a way to take our freedon and
treasure over water vapor. Good old hydrogen
hydroxide!

On second thought, I should not give them any ideas.

 

[rbowman]

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 15:01:37 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Until they start taxing it through the roof like alcohol and tobacco and
petrol.

23% in this county for recreational marijuana. 20% state excise tax and a 3% local tax. A medical card cuts that down to 4%. The local initiative approved the 3% on recreational, rejected 3% on medical.

There were other factors but the state is trying to decide what to do with a 2.6 billion dollar budget surplus.


https://apnews.com/article/politics-greg-gianforte-montana-taxes-d0c2aed6fd0591ee4be345f368cb0540

 

[rbowman]

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 16:35:12 +0100, Joe wrote:

Some years ago, TFL experimented with a few hydrogen-powered buses.
Obviously nothing useful came of it. But they thought that the use of
hydrogen was so safe that they sited the filling station twenty miles
from the centre of London.

I worked for a company with a glass blowing operation for strobe light
tubes. Soda glass can be worked with an oxy-acetylene flame but quartz
glass requires oxy-hydrogen. When we went down to get a permit you could
see the clerk adding \'bomb\' every time we said hydrogen. It was safer than
acetylene.

It has improved but at the time the supplier would spot a tube trailer and
swap it out when we needed more.

http://cmwelding.com/configuration/hydrogen-h2-tube-trailer-9-tubes-
dot-3aax-2400psi-40-ft

The takeway:

GROSS WEIGHT 60500 lbs
PRODUCT WEIGHT 686 lbs

In other words, with the tractor you have a grossed out (80000 lbs) semi
delivering 686 pounds of product. At that weight the semi would be lucky
to get 7 mpg of diesel depending on wind and terrain.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 16:35:12 +0100, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 06:55:34 -0700
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On 15 Apr 2023 02:27:25 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:


Someday. Maybe. Gaseous hydrogen storage presents many problems.
Carbon fiber vessels have helped somewhat. BMW played around with
liquid hydrogen although it was for an ICE dual fuel engine. Besides
the problem of it boiling off, what could go wrong with Joe Sixpack
filling his pickup with a -423 F liquid?

My neighborhood Shell station has a hydrogen fill-up thing. I\'ve never
seen it used.


Some years ago, TFL experimented with a few hydrogen-powered buses.
Obviously nothing useful came of it. But they thought that the use of
hydrogen was so safe that they sited the filling station twenty miles
from the centre of London.

I guess a AAA rescue truck will have to carry gaseous hydrogen and
liquid hydrogen and what all.

 

[T]

Hi Frank,

Since coal can be made into gasoline, can
natural gas be made into gasoline as well?

-T

 

[T]

On 4/15/23 20:21, rbowman wrote:

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 15:01:37 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Until they start taxing it through the roof like alcohol and tobacco and
petrol.

23% in this county for recreational marijuana. 20% state excise tax and a 3% local tax. A medical card cuts that down to 4%. The local initiative approved the 3% on recreational, rejected 3% on medical.

There were other factors but the state is trying to decide what to do with a 2.6 billion dollar budget surplus.


https://apnews.com/article/politics-greg-gianforte-montana-taxes-d0c2aed6fd0591ee4be345f368cb0540

Just an idea. Maybe they could fix some roads?

 

[T]

On 4/15/23 20:42, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 16:35:12 +0100, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 06:55:34 -0700
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On 15 Apr 2023 02:27:25 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:


Someday. Maybe. Gaseous hydrogen storage presents many problems.
Carbon fiber vessels have helped somewhat. BMW played around with
liquid hydrogen although it was for an ICE dual fuel engine. Besides
the problem of it boiling off, what could go wrong with Joe Sixpack
filling his pickup with a -423 F liquid?

My neighborhood Shell station has a hydrogen fill-up thing. I\'ve never
seen it used.


Some years ago, TFL experimented with a few hydrogen-powered buses.
Obviously nothing useful came of it. But they thought that the use of
hydrogen was so safe that they sited the filling station twenty miles
from the centre of London.

I guess a AAA rescue truck will have to carry gaseous hydrogen and
liquid hydrogen and what all.

Where did I head they are carrying gasoline
powered electric generator to jump BEV\'s?

 

[rbowman]

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 14:53:14 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:


> Why are you imagining him with a sixpack?

Sixpack of beer in the cooler on the floor of the pickup. Joe\'s abs
haven\'t been seen in 20 years.


> I doubt it\'s any more dangerous than LPG.

What was that degree in again? Propane boils at around -43 F and a
residential propane tank may reach 200 psi on a hot day, enough to keep
most of it liquid.

Hydrogen liquefies at -252.87 C so you\'re dealing with a cryogenic liquid
that\'s going to boil off unless you keep it (extremely) cold. BMW\'s
Hydrogen 7 used an ICE along with liquid hydrogen. The hydrogen was a use
it or lose it deal. As long as the engine was keeping up with the pressure
buildup life was fine. Park it, and it would vent the over pressure. Park
it for a week or two and the cupboard would be bare.

They\'re trying again with a fuel cell. We\'ll see how that goes.

Other than chemical bonding the other approach is compressing it to
somewhere around 7000 to 10000 psi. Even with carbon fiber tanks getting a
reasonable amount stored in a vehicle will be difficult.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, April 16, 2023 at 10:13:37 AM UTC+10, T wrote:

On 4/15/23 06:51, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Every time one of those morons says greenhouse gases, say plant air supply.
These \"alarmists\" act like the CO2 that goes into the atmosphere stays
there.

It seems to stay there for some 800 years,

> Plants create sugars from it.

But nowhere near enough. The Mauna Loa CO2 levels

https://gml.noaa.gov/ccgg/trends/

show a 7ppm fluctuation over the year superimposed on a steadily rising trend of a couple of ppm per year - since 1958 th3 average is 1.6 ppm per year, but it has been faster in recent years.

> Our entire food supply is dependent on CO2. And if for some strange reason CO2 drops too far in our atmosphere, plants start dying and every living thing on this planet is in a heap of trouble.

Except that it doesn\'t ever seem to have happened. And our food supply also depends on plants getting water and other nutrients - put more CO2 in the atmosphere and plants cut the number of stomata in their leaves so they can get the same amount of CO2 while losing less water.

So ya, \"plant air supply\", \"plant food supply\", \"Everything else\'s food supply\". CO2 is part of cycle of life.

But only part of it.

> It just occurred to me that most of there \"Alarmists\" as \"vegetarians\" and do not realize the above. This is what you get when you don\'t think for yourself and rely on political offices for your narratives.

This is actually a climate change denial narrative, which T has picked up from climate change denial propaganda and recycled here.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Rod Speed]

On Sun, 16 Apr 2023 14:00:03 +1000, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Since coal can be made into gasoline, can
natural gas be made into gasoline as well?

You can make any hydrocarbon into any
other hydrocarbon, but whether it makes
sense to do that is a separate issue.

 

[rbowman]

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 20:40:52 -0400, Ed P wrote:

The current global average concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is 421
ppm as of May 2022. This is an increase of 50% since the start of the
Industrial Revolution, up from 280 ppm during the 10,000 years prior to
the mid-18th century. The increase is due to human activity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV6r0njkjxk

It doesn\'t mean shit to a tree.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, April 16, 2023 at 10:20:11 AM UTC+10, T wrote:

On 4/15/23 01:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/04/2023 00:38, Ed P wrote:
On 4/14/2023 6:14 PM, T wrote:

<snip>

> > The problem is all the engineering effort and tax payer money is going into the dead end of \'renewables\' instead of working out how an all nuclear electric society will work.

Renewables are now the cheapest way of generating electricity, and don\'t need tax payer money any more. They aren\'t a \"dead end\" but rather an investment opportunity.

> These new small nuclear generators that can\'t melt down are a good start..

Or would be, if they existed. They may have design features that their proponents claim will prevent them from ever melting down, but don\'t underestimate the power of human stupidity.

>As with all nuclear generator, they have a hard time power up and down for peak periods and lulls. But, they can run at peak power and generate hydrogen, which can be used to power conventional generators that can power up and down on command.

Hydrogen forms explosive mixtures with air over a very wide range of concentrations. You don\'t want a large reservoir of hydrogen in your back yard.

And generating electricity with nuclear reactors isn\'t cheap. \"Too cheap to meter\" turned out to be lie.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[rbowman]

On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 09:32:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/04/2023 03:27, rbowman wrote:
with declining costs for renewable electricity,
in particular from solar PV and wind,

ROFLMAO!

More sunlit uplands full of fairy farts and unicorn shit

Wrong attribution... I never wrote bullshit like that.