lidar chip...

[server]

Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in
news:vrmuch552ud1rv83u946ev0ndf9c7mnctc@4ax.com:

On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 16:41:47 -0700, John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:


.<https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/VL5
3L4CXV0DH-1/16123777

On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:50:28 -0700 (PDT), a a
manta103g@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, 13 July 2022 at 23:54:04 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9...@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a
mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
Lidar is an old fake

You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to
not say much about electronics.

He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a
bad idea most can be done better and safer with cameras.
The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED.
If it\'s pulsed, I\'d expect the average optical power to be
microwatts. --

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in
certainties. Francis Bacon
you are not correct
it doesn\'t matter pulsed or not,
laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people


Except that this is hardly a beam; it\'s a wide fan. Just because
it\'s a laser doesn\'t make it dangerous. Power density makes light
dangerous.

I don\'t think ST would sell it if it\'s dangerous.

Around here, we have swarms of Waymo cars that have spinning lidar
things all over them. I bet they are 1000x as powerful as that
tiny ST brick.

.<https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/21/71/20/21468178/3/1200x0.jpg

Once in a while we even see a giant thermonuclear light source in
the sky. I hear it can be dangerous to look at.

I bet that lidar unit meets the same eye safety requirements as
for an ordinary laser pointer or fiber optic IR communications
laser. Otherwise, ST would have to jump through impossible hoops.

Looked at the VL53L4CX datasheet. See Chapter 8 (Laser safety
considerations): IEC 60825-1:2014 (third edition). Meets Class I
safety, which means no restrictions, even without eye protection.

Joe Gwinn

Yes, class 1. It meets that, however, a simple class 1 laser
pointer is dangerous if one looks directly at the beam.

LIDAR is a pulsed fanning. A laser pointer is a focused beam.

Both class one, but the latter is dangerous.

 

[Edward Hernandez Loves Porn]

a a <manta103g@gmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
a a wrote:

Lidar is an old fake

You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
much about electronics.

He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
most can be done better and safer with cameras.

The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED. If it\'s
pulsed, I\'d expect the average optical power to be microwatts.

you are not correct
it doesn\'t matter pulsed or not,
laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people

My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
laser beam on certain patient\'s eyes.

One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is for
cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the stitch
without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn\'t even hurt.

 

[a a]

On Thursday, 14 July 2022 at 11:01:31 UTC+2, Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:

a a <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
a a wrote:

Lidar is an old fake

You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
much about electronics.

He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
most can be done better and safer with cameras.

The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED. If it\'s
pulsed, I\'d expect the average optical power to be microwatts.
you are not correct
it doesn\'t matter pulsed or not,
laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people
My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
laser beam on certain patient\'s eyes.

One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is for
cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the stitch
without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn\'t even hurt.
use of lasers in crowdy environments is banned

Pointing a laser at an airplane pilot is considered a terrorist act

===
Laser safety standards, classes, regulations make no difference, since implemented by laser stackholders

So use of Lidar in public cars is banned, use of Lidar in road traffic is banned
and Elon fired the whole 200-man Autopilot team, experimenting with lasers in Teslas.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/teslas-top-ai-exec-andrej-karpathy-who-helped-develop-autopilot-is-leaving-11657753546?mod=mw_latestnews

=
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety

\"Laser pointers
Main article: Laser pointer
Laser pointers

In the period from 1999 to 2016, increasing attention has been paid to the risks posed by so-called laser pointers and laser pens. Typically, the sale of laser pointers is restricted to either class 3A (<5 mW) or class 2 (<1 mW), depending on local regulations. For example, in the US, Canada and the UK, class 3A is the maximum permitted, unless a key actuated control or other safety features are provided.[31] In Australia, class 2 is the maximum allowed class. However, because enforcement is often not very strict, laser pointers of class 2 and above are often available for sale even in countries where they are not allowed.

Van Norren et al. (1998)[32] could not find a single example in the medical literature of a <1 mW class III laser causing eyesight damage. Mainster et al. (2003)[33] provide one case, an 11-year-old child who temporarily damaged her eyesight by holding an approximately 5 mW red laser pointer close to the eye and staring into the beam for 10 seconds; she experienced scotoma (a blind spot) but fully recovered after three months. Luttrull & Hallisey (1999) describe a similar case, a 34-year-old male who stared into the beam of a class IIIa 5 mW red laser for 30 to 60 seconds, causing temporary central scotoma and visual field loss. His eyesight fully recovered within two days, at the time of his eye exam. An intravenous fundus fluorescein angiogram, a technique used by ophthalmologists to visualise the retina of the eye in fine detail, identified subtle discoloration of the fovea.

Thus, it appears that a brief 0.25-second exposure to a <5 mW laser such as found in red laser pointers does not pose a threat to eye health. On the other hand, there is a potential for injury if a person deliberately stares into a beam of a class IIIa laser for few seconds or more at close range. Even if injury occurs, most people will fully recover their vision. Further experienced discomforts than these may be psychological rather than physical. With regard to green laser pointers the safe exposure time may be less, and with even higher powered lasers instant permanent damage should be expected. These conclusions must be qualified with recent theoretical observations that certain prescription medications may interact with some wavelengths of laser light, causing increased sensitivity (phototoxicity).

Beyond the question of physical injury to the eye from a laser pointer, several other undesirable effects are possible. These include short-lived flash blindness if the beam is encountered in darkened surroundings, as when driving at night. This may result in momentary loss of vehicular control. Lasers pointed at aircraft are a hazard to aviation. A police officer seeing a red dot on his chest may conclude that a sniper is targeting him and take aggressive action.[34] In addition, the startle reflex exhibited by some exposed unexpectedly to laser light of this sort has been reported to have resulted in cases of self-injury or loss of control. For these and similar reasons, the US Food and Drug Administration has advised that laser pointers are not toys and should not be used by minors except under the direct supervision of an adult.

==https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 17:18:56 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 20:03:57 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 16:41:47 -0700, John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:


.<https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/VL53L4CXV0DH-1/16123777

On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:50:28 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com
wrote:

On Wednesday, 13 July 2022 at 23:54:04 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9...@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <mant...@gmail.com
wrote:
Lidar is an old fake

You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
much about electronics.

He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
most can be done better and safer with cameras.
The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED. If it\'s
pulsed, I\'d expect the average optical power to be microwatts.
--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon
you are not correct
it doesn\'t matter pulsed or not,
laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people


Except that this is hardly a beam; it\'s a wide fan. Just because it\'s
a laser doesn\'t make it dangerous. Power density makes light
dangerous.

I don\'t think ST would sell it if it\'s dangerous.

Around here, we have swarms of Waymo cars that have spinning lidar
things all over them. I bet they are 1000x as powerful as that tiny ST
brick.

.<https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/21/71/20/21468178/3/1200x0.jpg

Once in a while we even see a giant thermonuclear light source in the
sky. I hear it can be dangerous to look at.

I bet that lidar unit meets the same eye safety requirements as for an
ordinary laser pointer or fiber optic IR communications laser.
Otherwise, ST would have to jump through impossible hoops.

Looked at the VL53L4CX datasheet. See Chapter 8 (Laser safety
considerations): IEC 60825-1:2014 (third edition). Meets Class I
safety, which means no restrictions, even without eye protection.

Joe Gwinn


I wonder if it\'s pulsed. It has picosecond distance resolution so any
laser pulses would have to be very short, hence low power.

The datasheet implies that it is pulsed. Probably a ultra-wideband
signal modulating the laser.

Joe Gwinn

 

[server]

On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 09:01:24 -0000 (UTC), Edward Hernandez Loves Porn
<always.view@post.header> wrote:

a a <manta103g@gmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
a a wrote:

Lidar is an old fake

You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
much about electronics.

He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
most can be done better and safer with cameras.

The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED. If it\'s
pulsed, I\'d expect the average optical power to be microwatts.

you are not correct
it doesn\'t matter pulsed or not,
laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people

My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
laser beam on certain patient\'s eyes.

One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is for
cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the stitch
without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn\'t even hurt.

After cataract surgery, I got a \"secondary cataract\", namely clouding
of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the
center part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes.
He left some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed
that later.

I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it
welded to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach,
so that helps.

I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
other eye soon. I\'ll ask them to spot weld that one too.

So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

whit3rd wrote:

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Try google for US regime change since WW2

Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement
to speak of.

And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

That fails any kind of reality check.

and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
but ought not command our respect either.

RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop. <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

Guys, Jan is just winding you up. He does it all the time. Try teasing
him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause
starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 11:31:05 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Try google for US regime change since WW2

Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement
to speak of.

And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

That fails any kind of reality check.

Great book:

https://www.amazon.com/Band-Played-Politics-Epidemic-20th-Anniversary/dp/0312374631/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1MY39G2KTGHC2&keywords=and+the+band+played+on&qid=1657825484&s=books&sprefix=and+the%2Cstripbooks%2C114&sr=1-1

Randy wrote that as he was dying of AIDS.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 2:22:23 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:

whit3rd wrote:
On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Try google for US regime change since WW2

Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement
to speak of.

And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

That fails any kind of reality check.

and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
but ought not command our respect either.

RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop. <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

Guys, Jan is just winding you up. He does it all the time. Try teasing
him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause
starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for.

Holland was one of the original seven united provinces of the Netherlands. It\'s now divided into North and South Holland, and both are still provinces..

If you want to be rude about the Dutch nation-state, the Netherlands, you need to get the name right, otherwise people won\'t take you seriously. \"Wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause starvation overseas\" seem to be similarly off-the-wall.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Edward Hernandez Smells Funny]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:

My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
laser beam on certain patient\'s eyes.

One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is
for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the
stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn\'t even hurt.

After cataract surgery, I got a \"secondary cataract\", namely clouding
of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the center
part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes. He left
some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed that
later.

I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it welded
to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach, so that
helps.

I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
other eye soon. I\'ll ask them to spot weld that one too.

So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.

Does anybody know how the laser beam energy is concentrated at a specific
distance from the laser, so the beam doesn\'t damage tissue on the way to
that point?

Do they adjust the frequency so that it operates only on the material of
interest?

Neat stuff.

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:

whit3rd wrote:
On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Try google for US regime change since WW2

Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
were all infants.
Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
involvement
to speak of.

And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

That fails any kind of reality check.

and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
rumors can be found, or created,
but ought not command our respect either.

RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop


Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try teasing
him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause
starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I don\'t think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
In fact you won\'t believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
*all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
people in his working environment are no better.
I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 7:28:58 PM UTC+10, Edward Hernandez Smells Funny wrote:

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:
My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
laser beam on certain patient\'s eyes.

One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is
for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the
stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn\'t even hurt.

After cataract surgery, I got a \"secondary cataract\", namely clouding
of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the center
part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes. He left
some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed that
later.

I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it welded
to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach, so that
helps.

I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
other eye soon. I\'ll ask them to spot weld that one too.

So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.

Does anybody know how the laser beam energy is concentrated at a specific
distance from the laser, so the beam doesn\'t damage tissue on the way to
that point?

It could be a focussing lens, but the aqueous and vitreous humors are transparent (as they have to be for the eye to work) so not a lot of the laser energy would get deposited there anyway.

> Do they adjust the frequency so that it operates only on the material of interest?

They may select the lasing medium (and any frequency multiplication that they may go in for) with a view to getting an effective frequency at the targetted point, but tweaking a laser frequency isn\'t all that easy

> Neat stuff.

Neater than it used to be.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[marty]

On 15/7/22 21:34, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 7:28:58 PM UTC+10, Edward Hernandez Smells Funny wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:
My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
laser beam on certain patient\'s eyes.

One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is
for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the
stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn\'t even hurt.

After cataract surgery, I got a \"secondary cataract\", namely clouding
of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the center
part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes. He left
some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed that
later.

I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it welded
to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach, so that
helps.

I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
other eye soon. I\'ll ask them to spot weld that one too.

So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.

Does anybody know how the laser beam energy is concentrated at a specific
distance from the laser, so the beam doesn\'t damage tissue on the way to
that point?

It could be a focussing lens, but the aqueous and vitreous humors are transparent (as they have to be for the eye to work) so not a lot of the laser energy would get deposited there anyway.

Do they adjust the frequency so that it operates only on the material of interest?

They may select the lasing medium (and any frequency multiplication that they may go in for) with a view to getting an effective frequency at the targetted point, but tweaking a laser frequency isn\'t all that easy

Neat stuff.

Neater than it used to be.

The sign on our eye surgeons laser room mentions a fixed frequency in
its warning.

--
Marty

 

[server]

On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:07 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
wrote:

On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Try google for US regime change since WW2

Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
were all infants.
Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
involvement
to speak of.

And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

That fails any kind of reality check.

and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
rumors can be found, or created,
but ought not command our respect either.

RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop


Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try teasing
him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause
starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I don\'t think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
In fact you won\'t believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
*all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
people in his working environment are no better.
I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

I worked in the USSR for a month. It is a very weird place. It would
be great if they could become a prosperous and boring european
country, but I think they are too damaged by their language and
history.

 

[server]

On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 09:28:52 -0000 (UTC), Edward Hernandez Smells
Funny <view@post.header> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:

My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
laser beam on certain patient\'s eyes.

One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is
for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the
stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn\'t even hurt.

After cataract surgery, I got a \"secondary cataract\", namely clouding
of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the center
part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes. He left
some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed that
later.

I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it welded
to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach, so that
helps.

I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
other eye soon. I\'ll ask them to spot weld that one too.

So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.

Does anybody know how the laser beam energy is concentrated at a specific
distance from the laser, so the beam doesn\'t damage tissue on the way to
that point?

Do they adjust the frequency so that it operates only on the material of
interest?

Neat stuff.

Your nym is dumb and repulsive.

Do you have a name?

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

On 7/15/2022 16:31, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:07 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com
wrote:

On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Try google for US regime change since WW2

Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
were all infants.
Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
involvement
to speak of.

And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

That fails any kind of reality check.

and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
rumors can be found, or created,
but ought not command our respect either.

RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop


Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try teasing
him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause
starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I don\'t think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
In fact you won\'t believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
*all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
people in his working environment are no better.
I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

I worked in the USSR for a month. It is a very weird place. It would
be great if they could become a prosperous and boring european
country, but I think they are too damaged by their language and
history.

Unfortunately you are correct. No such thing as a \"normal prosperous
country\" in sight. It appears that even the younger generations, those
who were brought up in post soviet times has not evolved much. The
regularity they put some psychopath in the Kremlin with speaks for
itself.

What is puzzling is how people *outside* of the Russian environment
sympathize with the Russian imperial ambitions and believe their
propaganda nonsense.
Part of the reason for such people to exist must be some plain
inferiority complex, they see themselves as having no chance in the
civilized world so they look for the saviour, being fine with one
who would erase the civilization they cannot fit in the way they
would like to.
But may be there is more than that to it, to fall for the *utter
nonsense* of the Russian propaganda takes some sort of a mental
condition.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

fredag den 15. juli 2022 kl. 13.27.16 UTC+2 skrev Dimiter Popoff:

On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Try google for US regime change since WW2

Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
were all infants.
Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
involvement
to speak of.

And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

That fails any kind of reality check.

and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for
instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy
rumors can be found, or created,
but ought not command our respect either.

RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop


Guys, Jan is just winding you up. He does it all the time. Try teasing
him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause
starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
I don\'t think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
In fact you won\'t believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
*all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
people in his working environment are no better.
I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

seems like they have just convinced themselves that anything the western media, \"establishment\", and most people
believe must be something the \"Illuminati\" has planted so it must be wrong, and the opposite how ever silly is it must be correct

 

[server]

On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 17:20:24 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
wrote:

On 7/15/2022 16:31, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:07 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com
wrote:

On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Try google for US regime change since WW2

Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
were all infants.
Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
involvement
to speak of.

And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

That fails any kind of reality check.

and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
rumors can be found, or created,
but ought not command our respect either.

RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop


Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try teasing
him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause
starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I don\'t think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
In fact you won\'t believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
*all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
people in his working environment are no better.
I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

I worked in the USSR for a month. It is a very weird place. It would
be great if they could become a prosperous and boring european
country, but I think they are too damaged by their language and
history.


Unfortunately you are correct. No such thing as a \"normal prosperous
country\" in sight. It appears that even the younger generations, those
who were brought up in post soviet times has not evolved much. The
regularity they put some psychopath in the Kremlin with speaks for
itself.

What is puzzling is how people *outside* of the Russian environment
sympathize with the Russian imperial ambitions and believe their
propaganda nonsense.

In the times before WWII it was obvious that the USSR was run by
murderous psychopaths, but there were lots of people in England and
the US who idolized the workers paradise.

Part of the reason for such people to exist must be some plain
inferiority complex, they see themselves as having no chance in the
civilized world so they look for the saviour, being fine with one
who would erase the civilization they cannot fit in the way they
would like to.
But may be there is more than that to it, to fall for the *utter
nonsense* of the Russian propaganda takes some sort of a mental
condition.

Yes. When theory is confounded by reality, some people stick with
theory.

I made two good friends when I was in the USSR, and both came to live
with me here for a year or so. Sergei, the native Russian, never
learned English and didn\'t like America and went back to Moscow. Nick,
a Ukranian, loved the US and stayed and imported his family. He\'s an
IT consultant in Sacramento.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Try google for US regime change since WW2

Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
were all infants.
Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
involvement
to speak of.

And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

That fails any kind of reality check.

and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
rumors can be found, or created,
but ought not command our respect either.

RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop


Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are
going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is
famous for.


I don\'t think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
In fact you won\'t believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
*all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
people in his working environment are no better.
I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

He does it about other stuff too. Jan has a puckish sense of humor as
well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and reasonable
on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

On 7/15/2022 16:31, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:07 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com
wrote:
snip
I worked in the USSR for a month. It is a very weird place. It would
be great if they could become a prosperous and boring european
country, but I think they are too damaged by their language and
history.


Unfortunately you are correct. No such thing as a \"normal prosperous
country\" in sight. It appears that even the younger generations, those
who were brought up in post soviet times has not evolved much. The
regularity they put some psychopath in the Kremlin with speaks for
itself.

What is puzzling is how people *outside* of the Russian environment
sympathize with the Russian imperial ambitions and believe their
propaganda nonsense.
Part of the reason for such people to exist must be some plain
inferiority complex, they see themselves as having no chance in the
civilized world so they look for the saviour, being fine with one
who would erase the civilization they cannot fit in the way they
would like to.
But may be there is more than that to it, to fall for the *utter
nonsense* of the Russian propaganda takes some sort of a mental
condition.

I have a Russian history book whose preface begins, \"It is not true that
people get the government they deserve, and nowhere is it more
grotesquely false than in Russia.\"

After the local Slavs were taken over by Vikings, there was a long
period of warlordism and foreign domination. After that, the Russians
endured two centuries of Mongol rule, five centuries of serfdom that
gradually became more and more crushing, a brief interlude of
comparative freedom, then three quarters of a century of Bolshevism, two
catastrophic wars, deliberately imposed starvation on a huge scale, the
breakup of empire and the looting of the economy by oligarchs. Then
they\'ve had Putin.

It\'s really no wonder that they\'re both crazy and pathologically
suspicious--it\'s the only rational response.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Phil Hobbs]

John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 11:31:05 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Try google for US regime change since WW2

Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement
to speak of.

And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

That fails any kind of reality check.

Great book:

https://www.amazon.com/Band-Played-Politics-Epidemic-20th-Anniversary/dp/0312374631/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1MY39G2KTGHC2&keywords=and+the+band+played+on&qid=1657825484&s=books&sprefix=and+the%2Cstripbooks%2C114&sr=1-1

Randy wrote that as he was dying of AIDS.

That was Fauci too.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs