Li-Polymer Batteries

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1@dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.

Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.

Not sure where you going with your comment that "they" prefer NiCad in
power tools. "They" (manufacturers) make almost[*] 100% LiIon tools
these days. LiIon is a hands-down winner in this application, even
though they scare you.

[*] Someone might still make NiCd, still.

 

[rickman]

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 8:05 PM:

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1@dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.

Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.

Not sure where you going with your comment that "they" prefer NiCad in
power tools. "They" (manufacturers) make almost[*] 100% LiIon tools
these days. LiIon is a hands-down winner in this application, even
though they scare you.

The context was compared to NiMH.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 22:54:41 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 8:05 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1@dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.

Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.

Not sure where you going with your comment that "they" prefer NiCad in
power tools. "They" (manufacturers) make almost[*] 100% LiIon tools
these days. LiIon is a hands-down winner in this application, even
though they scare you.

The context was compared to NiMH.

Gotcha. Is anyone still making NiCD or NiMH tools? I haven't seen
any in a long time.

 

[rickman]

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 11:03 PM:

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 22:54:41 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 8:05 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1@dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.

Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.

Not sure where you going with your comment that "they" prefer NiCad in
power tools. "They" (manufacturers) make almost[*] 100% LiIon tools
these days. LiIon is a hands-down winner in this application, even
though they scare you.

The context was compared to NiMH.

Gotcha. Is anyone still making NiCD or NiMH tools? I haven't seen
any in a long time.

Don't know. It's been too long since I dug into hand tools much. I
remember having an RC boat which ran ok on alkaline cells. Then I got
rechargeables for it and it TOOK OFF like a rocket. Seems the lower
resistance of the NiCd made a big difference. But it only ran for five
minutes, lol.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 23:23:20 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 11:03 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 22:54:41 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 8:05 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1@dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.

Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.

Not sure where you going with your comment that "they" prefer NiCad in
power tools. "They" (manufacturers) make almost[*] 100% LiIon tools
these days. LiIon is a hands-down winner in this application, even
though they scare you.

The context was compared to NiMH.

Gotcha. Is anyone still making NiCD or NiMH tools? I haven't seen
any in a long time.

Don't know. It's been too long since I dug into hand tools much. I
remember having an RC boat which ran ok on alkaline cells. Then I got
rechargeables for it and it TOOK OFF like a rocket. Seems the lower
resistance of the NiCd made a big difference. But it only ran for five
minutes, lol.

Most stuff designed for Alkalines ran like crap with NiCds, due to the
lower voltage. Some stuff didn't run at all (UVLO). NiCds also have
a horrible self discharge and short life, particularly multi-cell
packs if not kept charged. A real bad combination for tools. LiIon
fixes all that.

 

[rickman]

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/21/2017 10:48 AM:

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 23:23:20 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 11:03 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 22:54:41 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 8:05 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1@dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.

Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.

Not sure where you going with your comment that "they" prefer NiCad in
power tools. "They" (manufacturers) make almost[*] 100% LiIon tools
these days. LiIon is a hands-down winner in this application, even
though they scare you.

The context was compared to NiMH.

Gotcha. Is anyone still making NiCD or NiMH tools? I haven't seen
any in a long time.

Don't know. It's been too long since I dug into hand tools much. I
remember having an RC boat which ran ok on alkaline cells. Then I got
rechargeables for it and it TOOK OFF like a rocket. Seems the lower
resistance of the NiCd made a big difference. But it only ran for five
minutes, lol.

Most stuff designed for Alkalines ran like crap with NiCds, due to the
lower voltage. Some stuff didn't run at all (UVLO). NiCds also have
a horrible self discharge and short life, particularly multi-cell
packs if not kept charged. A real bad combination for tools. LiIon
fixes all that.

Self discharge for sure. But I don't know about the short life. I have a
Makita power tool with NiCd batteries and that thing ran for 15 years before
the battery wouldn't charge. It was often left laying around uncharged so
it wasn't pampered either. I was amazed. A new battery pack costs as much
as a new tool with Li-ion. Actually, I think the tool I replaced it with
*also* used NiCd, to my surprise and it crapped out after a much shorter
time. Finally I got a hammer drill with Li-ion and all is good.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 14:53:31 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/21/2017 10:48 AM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 23:23:20 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 11:03 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 22:54:41 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 8:05 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1@dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.

Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.

Not sure where you going with your comment that "they" prefer NiCad in
power tools. "They" (manufacturers) make almost[*] 100% LiIon tools
these days. LiIon is a hands-down winner in this application, even
though they scare you.

The context was compared to NiMH.

Gotcha. Is anyone still making NiCD or NiMH tools? I haven't seen
any in a long time.

Don't know. It's been too long since I dug into hand tools much. I
remember having an RC boat which ran ok on alkaline cells. Then I got
rechargeables for it and it TOOK OFF like a rocket. Seems the lower
resistance of the NiCd made a big difference. But it only ran for five
minutes, lol.

Most stuff designed for Alkalines ran like crap with NiCds, due to the
lower voltage. Some stuff didn't run at all (UVLO). NiCds also have
a horrible self discharge and short life, particularly multi-cell
packs if not kept charged. A real bad combination for tools. LiIon
fixes all that.

Self discharge for sure. But I don't know about the short life.

You bet! A LiIon will still be good after five years sitting on a
shelf. Try that with a NiCd. You're lucky if you get one. I never
have, even with "high quality" rebuits.

I have a
Makita power tool with NiCd batteries and that thing ran for 15 years before
the battery wouldn't charge. It was often left laying around uncharged so
it wasn't pampered either. I was amazed. A new battery pack costs as much
as a new tool with Li-ion. Actually, I think the tool I replaced it with
*also* used NiCd, to my surprise and it crapped out after a much shorter
time. Finally I got a hammer drill with Li-ion and all is good.

That was true with NiCd, too. Cost <> price.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2017-10-21, krw@notreal.com <krw@notreal.com> wrote:

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 23:23:20 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 11:03 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 22:54:41 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 8:05 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1@dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.

Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.

Not sure where you going with your comment that "they" prefer NiCad in
power tools. "They" (manufacturers) make almost[*] 100% LiIon tools
these days. LiIon is a hands-down winner in this application, even
though they scare you.

The context was compared to NiMH.

Gotcha. Is anyone still making NiCD or NiMH tools? I haven't seen
any in a long time.

Don't know. It's been too long since I dug into hand tools much. I
remember having an RC boat which ran ok on alkaline cells. Then I got
rechargeables for it and it TOOK OFF like a rocket. Seems the lower
resistance of the NiCd made a big difference. But it only ran for five
minutes, lol.

Most stuff designed for Alkalines ran like crap with NiCds, due to the
lower voltage.

Alkalines have lower voltage. 0.9V terminal discharge voltage vs 1.15V

Stuff that quits at 1.2V was not designed, or perhaps was designed to
sell batteries.

--
This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software

 

On 27 Oct 2017 22:47:35 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

On 2017-10-21, krw@notreal.com <krw@notreal.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 23:23:20 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 11:03 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 22:54:41 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

krw@notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 8:05 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1@dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.

Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.

Not sure where you going with your comment that "they" prefer NiCad in
power tools. "They" (manufacturers) make almost[*] 100% LiIon tools
these days. LiIon is a hands-down winner in this application, even
though they scare you.

The context was compared to NiMH.

Gotcha. Is anyone still making NiCD or NiMH tools? I haven't seen
any in a long time.

Don't know. It's been too long since I dug into hand tools much. I
remember having an RC boat which ran ok on alkaline cells. Then I got
rechargeables for it and it TOOK OFF like a rocket. Seems the lower
resistance of the NiCd made a big difference. But it only ran for five
minutes, lol.

Most stuff designed for Alkalines ran like crap with NiCds, due to the
lower voltage.

Alkalines have lower voltage. 0.9V terminal discharge voltage vs 1.15V

Idiot. alkalines start out at 1.5V, where NiCds are about 1.3V. MANY
devices simply refused to work.

Stuff that quits at 1.2V was not designed, or perhaps was designed to
sell batteries.

How it was designed is irrelevant. It was.